Diamond Help Needed Please

[CrazyCat]

Hi everyone. First post and I wanted to say thank you so much for all of the knowledgeable advice posted in this forum. I have been reading various threads for weeks now trying to learn about diamonds for an engagement ring purchase. I think I have narrowed it down to two options and some expert advice would be much appreciated!

Details below but from my understanding of what I have learned is that #1 looks pretty good/safe. #2 is questionable, when JA sent me the idealscope they mentioned that "the diamond is a bit off center in the image so it shows a lighter patch of coloring in the northeast corner of the table area. This should not be of concern in terms of light performance". It is unclear to me if they mean that the diamond itself is off-center causing the light leakage or just in this particular image the placement is not ideal causing the light leakage, not sure if this is something expert eyes can tell? I asked them to clarify that and am waiting for their response

I like the G color as it is the top of the near colorless range and most seem to agree it looks about the same as the colorless range. I like VS1 for my own personal mind cleanliness. For about $1.2k more I would like to go to the larger size but if it is significantly worse in the light performance then I would be okay with smaller better performing diamond

Please let me know what you think, sorry for the extra long post, and thank you so much in advance!

#1 JA True Hearts 1.25ct G VS1 Ex/Ex/Ex GIA
Price - $9,310
Table - 56%
Depth - 61.9%
Crown - 35.0deg
Pavilion - 40.8deg
Star - 50%
Lower Half - 75%
Girdle - thin-slightly thick
Cutlet - none
HCA - 1.4
Fluorescence - Faint



#2 JA Ideal 1.40ct G VS1 Ex/Ex/Ex GIA
Price - $10,480
Table - 58%
Depth - 62.0%
Crown - 35.0deg
Pavilion - 40.8deg
Star - 45%
Lower Half - 75%
Girdle - med-slightly thick
Cutlet - none
HCA - 1.7
Fluorescence - Faint

 

[CrazyCat]

Small update, JA responded and said #2 diamond was tilted a bit while they were taking the ideal scope photograph. Does not sound like they will be able to take another one. If that helps?

I also forgot to put the dimensions for each diamond so here they are

#1 - 6.91 x 6.94 x 4.29 mm

#2 - 7.12 x 7.15 x 4.43 mm

 

[KKJohnson]

do you need to go with JA? I am not liking either ASET image but out of the two I like #1 better

This one is very nice
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-7456251

I would further inquire for the reports on these
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6260174

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4197936

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-7203633


https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765688.htm

might be smaller than you want but its a great buy and comes with the fantastic upgrade program
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4159452.htm

Love this one but I would ask to see it next to a G color to see if the H is ok
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4132156.htm

 

[lovedogs]

do you need to go with JA? I am not liking either ASET image but out of the two I like #1 better

This one is very nice
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...color-vs1-clarity-true-hearts-cut-sku-7456251

I would further inquire for the reports on these
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-6260174

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...g-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-4197936

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-7203633


https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765688.htm

might be smaller than you want but its a great buy and comes with the fantastic upgrade program
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4159452.htm

Love this one but I would ask to see it next to a G color to see if the H is ok
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4132156.htm

I would go with WF all day over James allen. But I agree with @KKJohnson That the ones posted by OP don't look great. But if you need to go w JA, I would pick the true hearts that @KKJohnson Suggested

 

[Dancing Fire]

d
might be smaller than you want but its a great buy and comes with the fantastic upgrade program
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4159452.htm

Love this one but I would ask to see it next to a G color to see if the H is ok
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4132156.htm

Both are very nice stone. If she's ok with H color I'd go with it.

 

[flyingpig]

#2 is leaky. The leakage will still show even if the IS is retaken. The pavilion is a bit wonky. That is the main reason for the leakage. #1 is nice. In fact, #1 is tilted as well, but no leakage is shown.

 

[CrazyCat]

Hi all thank you for your responses and suggestions!

I don't need to go with James Allen but while cross shopping it seemed to me to be the more happy middle between cost and performance between Blue Nile and Whiteflash

I did see the D True Hearts diamond but unfortunately it has strong fluorescence which I think I decided as my personal preference that I rather not have her diamond glowing strongly in black light.

I'm not sure if she can see a difference between H and G but when I looked at stones at my local jeweler, H is usually where I started to see more difference in the side view. I could see a slight warmth in I's in the face-up when compared to higher color as well so I wanted to be safe and stick with a G

For my comments above, I have talked to my girlfriend about what she wants and got some basic ideas/parameters but it seemed like she mainly wanted to be surprised and have me pick for her which is why I'm going off my own ideas/preferences here. She is usually happy with other things I pick for her so hopefully she will be happy with this one as well!

 

[KKJohnson]

Hi all thank you for your responses and suggestions!

I don't need to go with James Allen but while cross shopping it seemed to me to be the more happy middle between cost and performance between Blue Nile and Whiteflash

I did see the D True Hearts diamond but unfortunately it has strong fluorescence which I think I decided as my personal preference that I rather not have her diamond glowing strongly in black light.

I'm not sure if she can see a difference between H and G but when I looked at stones at my local jeweler, H is usually where I started to see more difference in the side view. I could see a slight warmth in I's in the face-up when compared to higher color as well so I wanted to be safe and stick with a G

For my comments above, I have talked to my girlfriend about what she wants and got some basic ideas/parameters but it seemed like she mainly wanted to be surprised and have me pick for her which is why I'm going off my own ideas/preferences here. She is usually happy with other things I pick for her so hopefully she will be happy with this one as well!

because white flash is a super ideal diamond vendor, anything your jeweler shows you will not be the same as for color difference. WF will send you side by side photos and videos, their stones face up whiter due to the cut

 

[CrazyCat]

Yes I believe that a super ideal H would be bright white face up. Super ideal should not have an effect when viewed from the side though right? I know that this is not normally how diamonds/rings are viewed but when I do look at them in this way most of the H color diamonds I have seen (in store and online videos) are where it looks a little too warm for my personal liking

 

[Wewechew]

Yes I believe that a super ideal H would be bright white face up. Super ideal should not have an effect when viewed from the side though right? I know that this is not normally how diamonds/rings are viewed but when I do look at them in this way most of the H color diamonds I have seen (in store and online videos) are where it looks a little too warm for my personal liking

You will still be able to see the tint from the side in a super ideal. I can see slight tint in an H, too. Unless you are super duper color sensitive I would say a G would be fine for you

 

[CrazyCat]

As far as color goes, yup I think G would be ideal for me considering cost as well. Of course if I can get a higher color for almost the same price, I would not say no

 

[KKJohnson]

WELL this one has been floating around the boards,

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10857

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-cbi-e-si2-avaialble.251582/

 

[sledge]

I bought my wife a super ideal H VS2. Depending on the angle, we can see tint.

While I think H offers a great bang for the buck, some people will see tint. It really does depend on the buyer's color acuity and tolerance to what the right answer is. However, you seem to be confident a G or better is your preferred range. I can respect that and think you should stick to your guns on the G. And rest easy, as they too are great values.

WELL this one has been floating around the boards,

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10857

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-cbi-e-si2-avaialble.251582/

I also thought of this stone, but refrained from suggesting as I suggested to a different person on this board and didn't want to create a hostile environment. The caveat being it's an SI2; however, CBI/HPD guarantees an EYE CLEAN stone.

 

[sledge]

Forgot my comments on the original JA stones.

Stone 1 looks solid.

Stone 2 has leakage and you should pass on that one.

 

[KKJohnson]

I also thought of this stone, but refrained from suggesting as I suggested to a different person on this board and didn't want to create a hostile environment. The caveat being it's an SI2; however, CBI/HPD guarantees an EYE CLEAN stone.

It looked like the other person passed due to budget

 

[headlight]

Yes I believe that a super ideal H would be bright white face up. Super ideal should not have an effect when viewed from the side though right? I know that this is not normally how diamonds/rings are viewed but when I do look at them in this way most of the H color diamonds I have seen (in store and online videos) are where it looks a little too warm for my personal liking

Then you need to go with G or higher.

 

[CrazyCat]

Thanks for the suggestion and comments on the 2 JA diamonds! So it seems like even if the ideal scope for #2 is tilted, there would still be leakage if this is fixed and the performance would be visible to laymen's eyes as compared to #1?

I wish that I could go down to an eye clean SI1/SI2 and save money but I just know that with how I am, I'm going to stare at the diamond either until I see the inclusion or I make up in my head that I see it haha... I figure I might as well just step up the clarity so that I can also be completely mind clean with that as well

 

[Wewechew]

WELL this one has been floating around the boards,

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10857

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-cbi-e-si2-avaialble.251582/

Yes yes yes!!!

 

[sledge]

Yes, stone 2 will have leakage even of the image is re-taken. Looks to be around the 1, 3, 5 and 11 o'clock positions. Although the proportions work, I see quite a few 35/40.8 combos with leakage so I'm not overly surprised.

That said, stone 1 looks great and has the same combo. My biggest gripe with this stone is JA markets it as a TH stone, and probably has it priced as one as well. The IS is good and symmetry is very good as evidenced in the hearts image but it's not that "super ideal" perfect I expect when a stone is marketed and priced as a true H&A stone.

Normally you can find a WF or HPD stones for similar money and specs as TH stones but with much better customer service, true H&A symmetry, AGS000 cert, and upgrade programs that blow JA out of the water.

Lastly I get what you are saying about the clarity and mind clean. You need to have peace with your purchase. I can look for some more stones if you provide a budget, and want more choices. But you should probably place stone 1 on hold while you decide so you don't lose it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

As far as color goes, yup I think G would be ideal for me considering cost as well. Of course if I can get a higher color for almost the same price, I would not say no

Yup G color is a pretty safe bet.

 

[CrazyCat]

Thank you so much for the good info Sledge!

I do actually have diamond #1 on reserve. Would you consider $9,310 overpriced for this 1.25ct diamond? It seems like a pretty good deal to me while I was looking at diamonds but I am quite the novice here.

A similar spec'd diamond at Whiteflash (albeit super ideal ACA but slightly smaller 1.217ct) is $11,275
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4037182.htm

A similar spec'd Expert Selection diamond at Whiteflash is $9,977. This one does seem good to me but the differing sized arrows kind of bothers me
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022286.htm

I was looking at Whiteflash diamonds a lot initially too. The sales rep said that I would be hard pressed to pick out an Expert Selection from ACA in person so I was very interested in the ES stones but they do not have many ES stones in inventory. So that's why I started looking into JA more to hopefully find a True Hearts that might be similar to an ES at Whiteflash

 

[CrazyCat]

Hi All,

I just found an option #3 that looks pretty promising given the AGS aset image, price is $10,210. The crown angle is a little shallower than the recommended ideal range of 34-35deg but it seems to work? Let me know what you experts think, your help is greatly appreciated!

 

[lovedogs]

Hi All,

I just found an option #3 that looks pretty promising given the AGS aset image, price is $10,210. The crown angle is a little shallower than the recommended ideal range of 34-35deg but it seems to work? Let me know what you experts think, your help is greatly appreciated!

AGS 000 are almost always great, so I'm not too worried about the 33.5 crown given the cut grade and the scanned image (which looks awesome). I really like it!!!

 

[sledge]

Thank you so much for the good info Sledge!

I do actually have diamond #1 on reserve. Would you consider $9,310 overpriced for this 1.25ct diamond? It seems like a pretty good deal to me while I was looking at diamonds but I am quite the novice here.

A similar spec'd diamond at Whiteflash (albeit super ideal ACA but slightly smaller 1.217ct) is $11,275
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4037182.htm

A similar spec'd Expert Selection diamond at Whiteflash is $9,977. This one does seem good to me but the differing sized arrows kind of bothers me
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022286.htm

I was looking at Whiteflash diamonds a lot initially too. The sales rep said that I would be hard pressed to pick out an Expert Selection from ACA in person so I was very interested in the ES stones but they do not have many ES stones in inventory. So that's why I started looking into JA more to hopefully find a True Hearts that might be similar to an ES at Whiteflash

Sorry, I didn't see the price of the TH earlier. I will eat my words as the price seems fair for size, color and clarity. I tried to find something similar from WF, HPD, BGD and VC but would have to drop to SI1 clarity to get similar pricing.

Just to clarify:

ACA = AGS000 + true H&A symmetry
ES = Near miss ACA with AGS000 cert
PS = Similar to ES but with GIA cert

When looking at the expert and premium select lines, you have to analyze each one to see the differences. Most I'm okay with but I've seen a few that I didn't like. I think they offer a good bang for the buck because you get all the perks of the ACA's with a little price incentive for small differences that most won't appreciate or notice.

I've not compared ES and PS against each other for pricing variances. I know most folks here prefer an AGS cert, but GIA is certainly reputable and in fact many people (in the world, not just on this forum) prefer a GIA cert because that lab is more widely recognized. I believe that is the reason WF created the PS line.

I mention this fact because the TH stone has a GIA cert so would be a closer comparison to a PS vs an ES.

For me, what I like about both ES and PS is you get a full array of performance images. Also, most have the basic SARIN report posted like the ES you linked but for picky buyers they will give you a detailed SARIN as well which gives all the actual values and not just the rounded and condensed version. These "little" things provide reassurance.

Looking at the ES you linked, I see the arrow discrepancy you mentioned. I'm just curious if the arrows are really off, or the stone was tilted during imaging. Have you asked WF this question? And if so, have you requested new images be taken when not tilted? Unlike JA, they actually own these stones and can simply pull from their vault and do further analysis and imaging upon request.

Perhaps @Texas Leaguer can confirm. He is VP for WF and a great resource and wealth of knowledge.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Looking at the ES you linked, I see the arrow discrepancy you mentioned. I'm just curious if the arrows are really off, or the stone was tilted during imaging. Have you asked WF this question? And if so, have you requested new images be taken when not tilted? Unlike JA, they actually own these stones and can simply pull from their vault and do further analysis and imaging upon request.

Perhaps @Texas Leaguer can confirm. He is VP for WF and a great resource and wealth of knowledge.

Thanks for the call out @sledge . It is worth re-imaging that stone to see if it might have been slightly tilted at capture. It's the weekend, but I have notified our photo dept and would expect them to be able to have new images by end of day Monday.

 

[CrazyCat]

Thank you Sledge for the very detailed response again! And requesting the re-imaging of that particular diamond
Thank you Texas Leaguer for re-imaging the diamond as well

Thank you lovedogs for the confirmation! I think I will go with that new AGS000 diamond I posted last unless someone else sees something particularly concerning with it? I can see the inclusions near the bottom girdle in the super zoom but it is super zoomed up and I think it should be eye clean at VS2 right?

 

[CrazyCat]

HCA is 0.8 on that AGS diamond as well so HCA must agree that the shallower crown angle works for this diamond

 

[lovedogs]

Thank you Sledge for the very detailed response again! And requesting the re-imaging of that particular diamond
Thank you Texas Leaguer for re-imaging the diamond as well

Thank you lovedogs for the confirmation! I think I will go with that new AGS000 diamond I posted last unless someone else sees something particularly concerning with it? I can see the inclusions near the bottom girdle in the super zoom but it is super zoomed up and I think it should be eye clean at VS2 right?

No concerns from me beyond the typical warning that the upgrade policy with WF is far superior than ja, so it might be worth waiting for the new pics of the ES. But the ja stone looks good to me

 

[CrazyCat]

Thanks lovedogs! That is a good point you bring up with the upgrade policy. I think in my particular case I am not too worried in that regards though as my girlfriend is definitely more of the sentimental type. I'm sure she will want to keep the ring I proposed with forever which is why I am really trying hard to get it right the first time!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thanks for the call out @sledge . It is worth re-imaging that stone to see if it might have been slightly tilted at capture. It's the weekend, but I have notified our photo dept and would expect them to be able to have new images by end of day Monday.

We did re-image the stone today and confirmed that the original images are accurate. The stone has a very slight amount of 3D asymmetry. It was for this reason that it did not make A CUT ABOVE.