Diamond graded two grades lower than in AGS cert

[lycheemartini]

Hi! I hope someone can help me find an answer or solution to the following incident that happen to me.
I recently bought a 2 cart plus diamond with AGS cert , rated F and VS1.
BUT when i brought it to a cerified independent gemologist today, he graded the stone a H colour and discovered an internal crystal that was not declared in the report.

I was shocked and so was the gemologist. He is a fan of AGS and said that they are the strictest in the industry. I understand that grading may differ but this is too big a difference. Everything else such as the cut, measurement, proportion, carat weight matched to a T so the stone does belong to the cert. Also, i did a search on AGS and this cert does exist.

The only thing is that this is an old cert (2003) and I was wondering could it be a trade in or mishandled before. but does mishandling cause crystals to form internally? Also i know for a fact that diamond dont turn yellow with time! so how could the colour be so different from the report. The gemologist said he wont even grade it a G.

I bought this direct from a diamond cutter and had initially chosen another 2 plus carat GIA stone. However the person brought this other stone (which i was pondering over too) and told me he forgot which one i wanted. I didnt mind getting this stone too as it was one of my choices but my partner thought the switch was a bit fishy.

I am wondering if i should ask for an exchange or a trade in. and if they do not entertain my request, is there an organisation which we could write to to report this incident. I really wished the people i bought the stone from were ignorant about this stone as they seem to be nice people. It is really a pity coz I am going to start a jewellery shop with my jewellery design partner and I was going to get him to deal with these people.

I am so pissed

 

[kcoursolle]

If you love the stone, why not go back to the vendor and ask for a price reduction of what an H/VS2 stone would be? There is nothing wrong with a welll-cut H/VS2 stone! If they don''t believe that it''s an H/VS2 ask them to send it back to AGS or verify it with GIA and have them pay the price to certify it if it comes up different than what you bought it at.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think you should send the stone back to AGS to check it is the stone they graded.
They will have a full 3D scan on file.
Sounds like a switch to me.

 

[lycheemartini]

Thanks for the advice!

Is it possible to switch the stone with exactly the same measurements?

 

[denverappraiser]

So you’re talking about 2 color grades and at least 1 clarity grade? That's quite a bit. Is your appraiser confident that it’s the correct stone for the report?

No, crystals can not form as a result of time. It's always possible that they didn't decide to include it on the plot but this would only be if it was not important for either recognizing the stone or for setting the grade. Your description would suggest that it's probably both.

How recent was this purchase? I would talk to the jeweler about it. I agree with the above that AGSL should be able to recognize if it's the same stone by looking at data in their files but it's always best to start with the easy stuf. It may be as simple as the jeweler matching the wrong stone with the wrong report.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[lycheemartini]

Date: 3/10/2008 3:00:45 PM
Author: denverappraiser
So you~{!/~}re talking about 2 color grades and at least 1 clarity grade? That is quite a bit. Is your appraiser confident that it~{!/~}s the correct stone for the report?

No, crystals can not form as a result of time.

How recent was this purchase? If so, yes, I would talk to the jeweler about it.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

everything else such as depth/ table/ girdle/ pavilion etc matches. There was one other inclusion that matched the one in the report too.
I bought it only 3 days ago.

I will definitely talk to them about it and i hope they will do something about it

 

[denverappraiser]

Depending on what sorts of equipment the appraiser is using to measure things, I’m not surprised that the dimensions and table match between several stones. AGS0’s tend to have very similar proportions and some of the tools are considerably less precise than others. Any idea how he measured the pavilion? Again, does the appraiser think it’s the wrong stone or that it was misgraded by AGSL? These are two very different complaints.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[lycheemartini]

Date: 3/10/2008 3:16:17 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Depending on what sorts of equipment the appraiser is using to measure things, I~{!/~}m not surprised that the dimensions and table match between several stones. AGS0~{!/~}s tend to have very similar proportions and some of the tools are considerably less precise than others. Any idea how he measured the pavilion? Again, does the appraiser think it~{!/~}s the wrong stone or that it was misgraded by AGSL? These are two very different complaints.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

He measures using an equipment that is connected to a computer that calculates the proportion and measurements.

He thinks it''s the same stone coz of the same inclusions reported in the cert but he cant believe AGS will misgrade the stone. he is a big AGS fan i think. He was saying he had seen a few of such cases with big discrepancies but all were GIA (the bribery scam days)

When he put my stone next to a F colour GIA, my stone is way off and yellowish.

I have just emailed the diamond seller and AGS to tell them that I would like to get another AGS report on the stone.

 

[denverappraiser]

I’m a big AGSL fan too, but we all make mistakes. Someone has screwed up here and the only choices are the jeweler, the appraiser and AGSL. Let’s see what the jeweler has to say and let AGSL sort it out.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[CaptAubrey]

Date: 3/10/2008 2:53:14 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think you should send the stone back to AGS to check it is the stone they graded.

They will have a full 3D scan on file.

Sounds like a switch to me.

Perhaps we''ve got the first documented example of your recycled report theory?

 

[lycheemartini]

Date: 3/10/2008 3:44:20 PM
Author: denverappraiser
I~{!/~}m a big AGSL fan too, but we all make mistakes. Someone has screwed up here and the only choices are the jeweler, the appraiser and AGSL. Let~{!/~}s see what the jeweler has to say and let AGSL sort it out.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Thank you Neil for your advice! I will update on the progress.

 

[lycheemartini]

Date: 3/10/2008 3:47:29 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/10/2008 2:53:14 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think you should send the stone back to AGS to check it is the stone they graded.

They will have a full 3D scan on file.

Sounds like a switch to me.

Perhaps we''ve got the first documented example of your recycled report theory?

Yeah. I read about that. I am gonna get to the bottom of this case. and if this is indeed the case, is there anyway i can get the culprit blacklisted?
maybe i should scan the diamond and doc and post online! so everyone can learn from my mistake.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 3/10/2008 3:47:29 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/10/2008 2:53:14 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think you should send the stone back to AGS to check it is the stone they graded.

They will have a full 3D scan on file.

Sounds like a switch to me.

Perhaps we''ve got the first documented example of your recycled report theory?

Exactly what I was thinking Captain.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/paper-recycling-save-the-world.79532/ is the link to this discussion:

It is possible and can be profitable to find diamonds with close proportions but lower grades to reuse ''left over'' paper if the diamond has been sold with another certificate.

 

[lycheemartini]

Date: 3/10/2008 7:43:34 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 3/10/2008 3:47:29 PM
Author: CaptAubrey

Date: 3/10/2008 2:53:14 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think you should send the stone back to AGS to check it is the stone they graded.

They will have a full 3D scan on file.

Sounds like a switch to me.

Perhaps we''ve got the first documented example of your recycled report theory?

Exactly what I was thinking Captain.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/paper-recycling-save-the-world.79532/ here is the link to this discussion:

It is possible and can be profitable to find diamonds with close proportions but lower grades to reuse ''left over'' paper if the diamond has been sold with another certificate.

Hi Gary H,

Is it possible still if the measurement/angle/ carat is an exact match?

 

[triple]

Hi,

If you only bought this 3 days ago, take it back and fast! You seem very upset about this and I would be too. Don''t delay, TAKE IT BACK, and shop someplace else. If they refuse to refund you and you put it on the card call them and have them return it for you. It sounds like we all need to be careful.

 

[lycheemartini]

I have emailed AGS and they have told me it is normal for grading to differ from person to person. (but by two colour grades down???)
Also, they said the extra crystal that I have seen should not be visible in a 10x loupe but even a tiny inclusion in a VVS grade will be visible in a microscope.
I thought lab would grade all stones with a hi tech equipment and not just a loupe. anyhow, they have asked me to send bcak the stone for verification.

The diamond seller got back to me (he was quite nice about this) and told me this is the stone in the cert and that he does not know who i got it appraised with. He said i could either send the stone to AGS for verification or i could swop for something else he has (but it is online).

I feel like swopping but what if the same thing happen with the new stone! this is so much hassle but i am thinking of my $$$ i spend on the bling