Diamond Engagement Ring - Best One 4 The $ ?

[plessinger3]

I just ordered a 1.544 ct G VS2 Whiteflash ACA H&A Diamond as a birthday gift for my wife. The HCA score was 0.7EX. It was rated EX for everything except the spread which was VG. I was still considering getting a slightly better diamond but it was quite a big more money with the main difference being that it was an F in color instead of a G. Here are the stats on my initial pick:

Report: AGS
. Shape: Whiteflash ACA
. Carat: 1.544
. Depth %: 61.4
. Table %: 55.4
. Crown Angle: 34.6
. Crown %: 15.4
. Star : 51
. Pavilion Angle: 40.6
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 78
. Girdle: Thin to Medium Faceted
. Measurements: 7.41-7.46X4.57
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

The second diamond I was considering that was $2,200 more expensive. It had an HCA score of 1.2-EX. Here are the stats:

. Report: AGS
. Shape: Whiteflash ACA
. Carat: 1.572
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 57.2
. Crown Angle: 34.9
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 7.43-7.45X4.59
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

There were two comparable diamonds that I saw at James Allen and I wanted to know how they compare. The first is a 1.58 Carat H-VVS1 Hearts & Arrows Ideal Cut Round Diamond. It had an HCA rating of 1.1-EX. This particular diamond is lower in color by 1 grade but is substantially higher in clarity. I know that color is generally more important than clarity but VS2 all the way up to VVS1 is a pretty significant jump. Does that outweight the lower grade of color?

Item Number: 1197024
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.58
Cut: Hearts & Arrows Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VVS1
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 61.8%
Table: 55.4%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Negligible
Measurements: 7.47*7.51*4.63

Crown Angle: 34.8°
Crown %: 15.60
pavilion Angle: 40.7°
pavilion %: 43.00

The last diamond was also at James Allen. It is a 1.54 Carat F-VS2 Hearts & Arrows Ideal Cut Round Diamond. The HCA score is 1.6-EX. This is the only stone of the 4 that didn''t have an EX for Scintillation & was rated EX, EX, VG, VG. It did have an F color though so I''m not sure if that would make up for this loss.

I also wanted to get clarification on the HCA ratings in general. Is this more a tool to make sure a diamond is under 2.0 as merely a pass/fail type of test or is it still important to get as low of a score as possible? How important is it to make sure that you have excellent in each category of Light Return, Fire, Scintillation & Spread versus very good in one of the categories? Can the drop to very good in one of these categories be compensated for in a higher color and/or clarity of the diamond?

Thanks,

Matt
or diameter for weight Excellent

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 6/24/2009 9:55:16 AM
Author:plessinger3

I also wanted to get clarification on the HCA ratings in general. Is this more a tool to make sure a diamond is under 2.0 as merely a pass/fail type of test or is it still important to get as low of a score as possible? How important is it to make sure that you have excellent in each category of Light Return, Fire, Scintillation & Spread versus very good in one of the categories? Can the drop to very good in one of these categories be compensated for in a higher color and/or clarity of the diamond?

Thanks,

Matt
or diameter for weight Excellent

The highlighted part is correct, a lower score is not necessarily better. What the HCA does is make a prediction of how the stone may perform based on a few measurements. Since those measurements are the averages of only some of the facets, it ends up more as an outline of the diamond. After finding a diamond that scores below 2, further evaluation is done via IS or ASET images. As long as the overall score is below 2, the subcategories really aren''t that important (i.e. only a fairly shallow diamond will get Ex on spread and that will many times result in a VG in another category such as Fire or Scint.)

Clarity and color are not considered at all in the calculation because they don''t affect whether or not the light will perform well or leak, that is a result of the angles. You can have a D/IF, but if it is not cut well with complimentary angles, it will never look as bright and sparkly as a well cut J/SI1.

The diamonds you posted full information on all have good numbers (as evidenced by the HCA scores) For further evaluation, we would need to see Idealscope or ASET images. I think you are on very safe ground with the 1.544 ACA for your wife. The numbers are good and ACA''s are all cut for performance. The difference between G and F color is imperceptable and not worth the extra money, in my opinion. She is sure to be thrilled with this birthday gift. How are you having it set?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2009 10:40:24 AM
Author: jet2ks

Date: 6/24/2009 9:55:16 AM
Author:plessinger3

I also wanted to get clarification on the HCA ratings in general. Is this more a tool to make sure a diamond is under 2.0 as merely a pass/fail type of test or is it still important to get as low of a score as possible? How important is it to make sure that you have excellent in each category of Light Return, Fire, Scintillation & Spread versus very good in one of the categories? Can the drop to very good in one of these categories be compensated for in a higher color and/or clarity of the diamond?

Thanks,

Matt
or diameter for weight Excellent

The highlighted part is correct, a lower score is not necessarily better. What the HCA does is make a prediction of how the stone may perform based on a few measurements. Since those measurements are the averages of only some of the facets, it ends up more as an outline of the diamond. After finding a diamond that scores below 2, further evaluation is done via IS or ASET images. As long as the overall score is below 2, the subcategories really aren''t that important (i.e. only a fairly shallow diamond will get Ex on spread and that will many times result in a VG in another category such as Fire or Scint.)

Clarity and color are not considered at all in the calculation because they don''t affect whether or not the light will perform well or leak, that is a result of the angles. You can have a D/IF, but if it is not cut well with complimentary angles, it will never look as bright and sparkly as a well cut J/SI1.

The diamonds you posted full information on all have good numbers (as evidenced by the HCA scores) For further evaluation, we would need to see Idealscope or ASET images. I think you are on very safe ground with the 1.544 ACA for your wife. The numbers are good and ACA''s are all cut for performance. The difference between G and F color is imperceptable and not worth the extra money, in my opinion. She is sure to be thrilled with this birthday gift. How are you having it set?

Ditto Jet, also with the JA diamonds really hearts images are needed in order to judge overall cut precision of a h&a diamond, however I don''t believe they supply these.

 

[plessinger3]

I attached a picture of the ideal scope image of the diamond I picked. I''ll post one of the ASET next.

 

[plessinger3]

Here is the ASET image of the diamond. I would like to get your opinion on these if possible. I''ll also get the ASET & Ideal Scope image of the more expensive diamond I''m considering that was an upgrade from G to F in color. Maybe there was something else in that diamond that justified the extra $2,300.

 

[plessinger3]

Here were the basic stats for the 2nd more expensive diamond I am considering. I''ve also included the Ideal Scope & will post the ASET image for it next. How does this compare to the first diamond? Thanks.

Report: AGS
. Shape: Whiteflash ACA
. Carat: 1.572
. Depth %: 61.6
. Table %: 57.2
. Crown Angle: 34.9
. Crown %: 15
. Star : 53
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.9
. Lower Girdle %: 76
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 7.43-7.45X4.59
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

 

[plessinger3]

Finally, here is the ASET image of the 2nd more expensive diamond.

 

[jet2ks]

Both diamonds have great IS & ASETs!!! I see nothing in there that would make me want to spend extra for the second.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:14:41 AM
Author: jet2ks
Both diamonds have great IS & ASETs!!! I see nothing in there that would make me want to spend extra for the second.

I agree.

 

[YoungPapa]

Date: 6/24/2009 10:44:37 AM
Author: Lorelei
Ditto Jet, also with the JA diamonds really hearts images are needed in order to judge overall cut precision of a h&a diamond, however I don''t believe they supply these.

Lorelei,

I''m happy to say that this is no longer the case. We finished development of a new camera and captured our first "Hearts" images yesterday. It will take several weeks (or more) before we have the entire H&A line photographed and on the website, but we should be able to produce heart images by request as early as next week.

 

[johnkorean]

So I know I'm new to all this, but, given the choice, there's no way I would pay $2200 more for the second one. I mean, they're pretty much the same weight and diameter, and the only real difference I've seen (F vs. G) only seems to make a difference (barely) when you take the diamond out of its setting, flip it upside down, and stare at it for a few hours against a white background.

Like I said, totally new to all this, so I could be way off.

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:15:41 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 6/24/2009 10:44:37 AM
Author: Lorelei
Ditto Jet, also with the JA diamonds really hearts images are needed in order to judge overall cut precision of a h&a diamond, however I don''t believe they supply these.

Lorelei,

I''m happy to say that this is no longer the case. We finished development of a new camera and captured our first ''Hearts'' images yesterday. It will take several weeks (or more) before we have the entire H&A line photographed and on the website, but we should be able to produce heart images by request as early as next week.

Glad to hear it, Jim. That is awesome!!!!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:15:41 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 6/24/2009 10:44:37 AM
Author: Lorelei
Ditto Jet, also with the JA diamonds really hearts images are needed in order to judge overall cut precision of a h&a diamond, however I don''t believe they supply these.

Lorelei,

I''m happy to say that this is no longer the case. We finished development of a new camera and captured our first ''Hearts'' images yesterday. It will take several weeks (or more) before we have the entire H&A line photographed and on the website, but we should be able to produce heart images by request as early as next week.

Jim, this is FANTASTIC news, thank you so much for letting us know!

 

[plessinger3]

The highlighted part is correct, a lower score is not necessarily better. What the HCA does is make a prediction of how the stone may perform based on a few measurements. Since those measurements are the averages of only some of the facets, it ends up more as an outline of the diamond. After finding a diamond that scores below 2, further evaluation is done via IS or ASET images. As long as the overall score is below 2, the subcategories really aren''t that important (i.e. only a fairly shallow diamond will get Ex on spread and that will many times result in a VG in another category such as Fire or Scint.)


Clarity and color are not considered at all in the calculation because they don''t affect whether or not the light will perform well or leak, that is a result of the angles. You can have a D/IF, but if it is not cut well with complimentary angles, it will never look as bright and sparkly as a well cut J/SI1.


The diamonds you posted full information on all have good numbers (as evidenced by the HCA scores) For further evaluation, we would need to see Idealscope or ASET images. I think you are on very safe ground with the 1.544 ACA for your wife. The numbers are good and ACA''s are all cut for performance. The difference between G and F color is imperceptable and not worth the extra money, in my opinion. She is sure to be thrilled with this birthday gift. How are you having it set?

Now that I found a great cut I wanted to ask about a few differences in color & clarity. How much of an increase in clarity would it take to offset a drop in color grade? For instance if you have an F VS2 and a G VVS1/2 does that significant clarity increase justify a lower color when color is generally considered more important? Is it ever really necessary to get clarity above VS2 if your mainly concerned with the diamond being eye clean?

As for the setting, I''m just having it set in a standard 6-prong setting initially so she can get it in time for her birthday tomorrow. I''ll let her pick out exactly what she wants because I know she''s very picky about that. I know she likes the Tacori 2565RD9 a lot but I''m sure that will take a few weeks to get done.

Tacori 2565

 

[jet2ks]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:35:00 AM
Author: plessinger3

Now that I found a great cut I wanted to ask about a few differences in color & clarity. How much of an increase in clarity would it take to offset a drop in color grade? For instance if you have an F VS2 and a G VVS1/2 does that significant clarity increase justify a lower color when color is generally considered more important? Is it ever really necessary to get clarity above VS2 if your mainly concerned with the diamond being eye clean?

As for the setting, I'm just having it set in a standard 6-prong setting initially so she can get it in time for her birthday tomorrow. I'll let her pick out exactly what she wants because I know she's very picky about that. I know she likes the Tacori 2565RD9 a lot but I'm sure that will take a few weeks to get done.

Tacori 2565

The clarity/color question is personal preference. Some people, including many on PS, prefer slightly warm diamonds in the I-M color ranges, so a "drop" in color is not an issue. Others really like that icy white look of a D or E so to them that would be a big concern. In general, most people can start to detect a hint of color around the I-J range, so then it just becomes whether or not they like the look.

I tend to be of the school of "Why pay for what you cannot see?" as far as clarity is concerned so to me the premium you have to pay for VVS is not worth it when an eye-clean VS2 or even SI1 would cost much less for a similar size and performance. For others the "mind clean" of higher clarity is worth it. Some also like high clarity as symbolism for purity. VS2 is generally safe for eye-clean, there are a very, very few cases where someone can detect inclusions in VS diamonds. A good vendor, such as WF, can give you a good evaluation on VS2 and SI clarities if you let them know what your definition of eye-clean is.

Love that setting BTW. Is this an e-ring upgrade?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:35:00 AM
Author: plessinger3

The highlighted part is correct, a lower score is not necessarily better. What the HCA does is make a prediction of how the stone may perform based on a few measurements. Since those measurements are the averages of only some of the facets, it ends up more as an outline of the diamond. After finding a diamond that scores below 2, further evaluation is done via IS or ASET images. As long as the overall score is below 2, the subcategories really aren''t that important (i.e. only a fairly shallow diamond will get Ex on spread and that will many times result in a VG in another category such as Fire or Scint.)


Clarity and color are not considered at all in the calculation because they don''t affect whether or not the light will perform well or leak, that is a result of the angles. You can have a D/IF, but if it is not cut well with complimentary angles, it will never look as bright and sparkly as a well cut J/SI1.


The diamonds you posted full information on all have good numbers (as evidenced by the HCA scores) For further evaluation, we would need to see Idealscope or ASET images. I think you are on very safe ground with the 1.544 ACA for your wife. The numbers are good and ACA''s are all cut for performance. The difference between G and F color is imperceptable and not worth the extra money, in my opinion. She is sure to be thrilled with this birthday gift. How are you having it set?

Now that I found a great cut I wanted to ask about a few differences in color & clarity. How much of an increase in clarity would it take to offset a drop in color grade? For instance if you have an F VS2 and a G VVS1/2 does that significant clarity increase justify a lower color when color is generally considered more important? Is it ever really necessary to get clarity above VS2 if your mainly concerned with the diamond being eye clean? This depends, size of the diamond, eyesight, personal preference etc. Some prefer very high clarity for purity or cultural reasons, also high colour sometimes, others would never pay out for colourless VVS if they can get more size by going with SI clarity and near colourless, I fall within this group.

As for the setting, I''m just having it set in a standard 6-prong setting initially so she can get it in time for her birthday tomorrow. I''ll let her pick out exactly what she wants because I know she''s very picky about that. I know she likes the Tacori 2565RD9 a lot but I''m sure that will take a few weeks to get done.

Tacori 2565

 

[johnkorean]

My personal preference when it comes to color is an H or higher. This is because I can see the difference between an H and an I under "ideal conditions." Truth is you could probably hand me an M by itself and I'd swear it was colorless.

I'm also of the school that says the most important thing when it comes to clarity is "eye-clean." That term means something different to everyone, though. For me, "eye-clean" means if you hand me your ring, I can't see anything from any angle without some sort of magnification aid. I would gladly take an S2 if I couldn't possibly see any inclusions without magnification... but my GF has set that limit at VS2. That does make it easy, though, since a VS2 that doesn't meet my criteria is (I think) pretty rare.

So in sum, I'm generally looking for the biggest H or better VS2 or better with an optimal cut I can get for my money.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 6/24/2009 11:15:41 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 6/24/2009 10:44:37 AM

Author: Lorelei

Ditto Jet, also with the JA diamonds really hearts images are needed in order to judge overall cut precision of a h&a diamond, however I don''t believe they supply these.

Lorelei,

I''m happy to say that this is no longer the case. We finished development of a new camera and captured our first ''Hearts'' images yesterday. It will take several weeks (or more) before we have the entire H&A line photographed and on the website, but we should be able to produce heart images by request as early as next week.

Nice to hear that.

 

[plessinger3]

Yeah, I''m just hoping that the diamond is eye clean since it''s pretty easy to see the inclusions at 40x.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/24/2009 12:10:06 PM
Author: plessinger3
Yeah, I''m just hoping that the diamond is eye clean since it''s pretty easy to see the inclusions at 40x.

Just make your expectations clear and you should be fine, the pics are greatly magnified as you know, so not a reliable indication.

 

[plessinger3]

My wife''s ring was finished just in time to have the FedEx it tonight to get here in time for her "surprise" birthday gift tomorrow evening. Here are the initial pictures I was just sent from Whiteflash.

 

[plessinger3]

Here is the other picture of her ring. I can''t wait to see it in person tomorrow and more importantly see the look on her face when I surprise her with this diamond. I''ll send some more pics Thursday or Friday when we get it.

 

[Dancing Fire]

P3

job well done!!

beautiful ring

 

[Lorelei]

Your wife will be overjoyed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[beechezz]

plessinger----that ring is spectacular....she is going to be thrilled!

 

[jet2ks]

What a birthday present!!!