diamond dilemma

[angela]

Hello all - long time lurker, first time poster. I''ve been doing a lot of research (via PS) in regard to the inevitable purchase of an e-ring. My BF and I have been together for 5 years, and have been talking about getting engaged in the near future. Our budget is around $4k, but could be higher if we find the right stone. We are looking at a RB, close to 1C... H VS2/SI1...

Monkey wrench in the gears - his sister has an old E-ring from a previous marriage, and offered to sell the stone to him for a deal (most likely under $3k). We have not seen the stone (well, he saw it years ago, but didn''t really pay attention) but she gave me the numbers from the EGL cert.

size: 1.1ct
color: F
clarity: SI1 (eye clean)
depth: 60.4%
table: 63%
crown height: 13%
pavilion depth: 44%
culet: pointed
fl: faint blue
girdle: m-sltk/faceted
symmetry: G/VG

It gets a horrible score on the HCA (6.2) but that is with the crown height and pavilion depth (angles not available). Also, I would worry about the fish eye effect since it is a shallow cut stone, not to mention that there is nothing said about the cut on the cert. Obviously we would need to see the stone and decide at that point as it could look pretty, but it seems to have so many negative factors (except price!) We wouldn''t be able to look at it for a month because that''s the next time we will be there. I don''t know if we should even consider it (based on the numbers) or just continue our search and pay more for an all around better stone. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[hoorray]

I can't second guess this stone using %'s, maybe others can tell you more. However, there are a couple of easy things to do, if it looks as if the stone has potential. You could order an idealscope to use to look at the stone for light return when you see it next. Your other option would be to set up an appointment with an appraiser who focuses on cut and performance to look at it before making a decision.

Decisions like this are personal, but I wouldn't want to settle for a dog of a stone to save $1000 if it was going to be my e-ring that I would be wearing everyday, forever. However, maybe you'll be plesantly surprised with the idealscope results.

 

[pqcollectibles]

On the bright side, if you like Brilliance, this diamond may fit the bill. With a larger table, you're likely to get lots of white light return. Just remember that Brilliance comes at the expense of Fire. You're not likely to have a lot of flashes of colored light coming from this diamond. The Flour is a plus as well. It will give the diamond marvelous blue flashes when it does sparkle.

If you do work a deal for around $3K, that will be a plus as well. I did a quick search of similar diamonds and the current asking price for GIA Certed comps offered by PS Vendors runs $4700 to $5K.

On the down side, it will probably look like a 1 carat. Most that I found with medium to slightly thick girdles have diameters in the 6.5 to 6.6mm range. Right on par with a well cut 1 carat.

Take a look at it and see what you think. No harm done there. Definitely follow Lop's advise and get the opinion of a professional that knows CUT. For the cost of an appraisal, you might wind up with a bargain. If not, then look at it as a little extra time to save more $$$ for the ring that you want!

 

[valeria101]

If 3k is the "deal" for the entire ring, this sounds tempting - about half what i would expect to get away with, given that the new setting is not going to be one of those $300 things. However, this stone has the mass going for it, but not much else. If aside poor light return (as far as numbers can tell, anyway), the stone is not eye clean TO YOU - which could be true - no idea what to say. Is it possible to get to see it before committing to buy?

 

[Giangi]

Well, the cut is not fantastic, but the price is... You might want to contact a cutter to see if he could at least touch up the pavilion and make it slightly shallower, thuse obtaining a better performance. Just a thought. Of course, the stone would have to be physically examined prior to make the call.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I don't think I would go for it unless I saw it and really liked the way it looked. I would rather get the largest I SI2 H&A I could for 3K than that stone, but of course, it's just opinion.

Also, you can't compare GIA certed stones to EGL certed stones. Other F SI1 stones with EGL certs in that range are going for $3900 to $ 4500 per carat, so you are getting a deal beyond that. I would just need to like the look a whole lot to go for a stone I knew got a 6.5 on the HCA (when I entered a percentage for the culet, it was even lower than 6.2).

Some ideas:

Note: WhiteFlash discounts its stones for PriceScope users -- that's why their prices are less than what their site says.

1.01 H SI1 for $4246 H&A (or nearly) 1.9 on the HCA

0.90 H VS2 AGS2 0.8 on the HCA for $3705

1.01 I SI1 H&A (or nearly) 1.3 on the HCA for $3915

0.90 G VS2 AGS3 2.2 on the HCA for $3534 This is a non-ideal stone that has a good looking image scope and a great spread -- it will look as big as most people's poorly cut one carat stones.

1.01 J SI1 H&A (or close) for $3456 1.3 on the HCA

0.91 E SI2 1.9 on the HCA AGS2 for $3398 Another stone with a good spread

0.915 J VS2 SuperbCert H&A 1.4 on the HCA for $3285

Of course, recutting might be an option, and the stone might appeal to you. I just wouldn't be pressured into it just because it's a "deal." My sister bought some clunky business man's Audi from a friend of the family for a great deal (supposedly), and then I bought a CR-V, and she realized she didn't like her businessman's car with leather seats, and she traded it in for a CR-V. If only she had gone with what she wanted in the first place . . . plus it turned out that she hadn't quite gotten the deal she thought. She ended up getting less than what she had paid for it from CarMax, plus she had all the stress of trying to resell it, etc. Get what you want . . . if it's this stone, then it's serendipitous.

 

[Jennifer5973]

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On 2/16/2004 4:21:47 PM phoenixgirl wrote:
Get what you want . . . if it's this stone, then it's serendipitous. ----------------

This is well put. This is about YOU. We all have a budget with which we need to work. Check out this stone, consider the great options others here have outlined here and go with your gut. If this stone doesn't impress you and you don't want it, go with something in your budget that you love...it's out there!

Good luck & come back to post pics when you get your ring.

 

[angela]

Thanks so much for all of the advice. It is possible to see the stone before buying, and even taking it to an independent appraisor, but the earliest would be March 12. (Gosh, I'm impatient!) I'm not sure I would want to deal with recutting it either...

Bottom line is, I want a stone that I can look at every day and be happy with, not one that we settled for because of a $1 or $2k discount. I'll be sure to take a look at it, but in the meantime, I'm having a great time researching LOTS of other options.

 

[Hest88]

If you haven't already, you might as well go hunt down some ideal cut stones before March 12. That way you'll get a good idea of how far off from what you want your FSIL's ring might be.

 

[hoorray]

----------------
On 2/17/2004 12:30:56 PM Hest88 wrote:

If you haven't already, you might as well go hunt down some ideal cut stones before March 12. That way you'll get a good idea of how far off from what you want your FSIL's ring might be.----------------

Good idea Hest88. (I assume you mean in person.) If you get out there and look at different stones you'll get a chance to learn what to look for, what you like, what you personally can and cannot see color and inclusion-wise. Just make sure to look at well cut stones, not the maul frozen spit types.

 

[pqcollectibles]

----------------
On 2/17/2004 12:44:00 PM lop wrote:

----------------
On 2/17/2004 12:30:56 PM Hest88 wrote:

If you haven't already, you might as well go hunt down some ideal cut stones before March 12. That way you'll get a good idea of how far off from what you want your FSIL's ring might be.----------------

Good idea Hest88. (I assume you mean in person.) If you get out there and look at different stones you'll get a chance to learn what to look for, what you like, what you personally can and cannot see color and inclusion-wise. Just make sure to look at well cut stones, not the maul frozen spit types.
----------------

I didn't realize you'd have to wait that long before you got to see the diamond. Hest and Lop gave some good advice. In addition to researching, I got out and did legwork too. I called around local jewelers in town asking about Ideal Cuts. I visited jewelers that claimed to have Ideal Cut diamonds. I also visited Diamond Brokers where I got to see a variety of colors, clarities, and Cut levels in side by side comparisons.

Take this time to put your research to work for you in practical application. Learn what appeals to your eye and what doesn't. What qualities you HAVE to have, and the areas you can bend on. See what color range you are comfortable with and learn what is eye clean to you.

 

[angela]

We've been to a few places around town (Milwaukee - no, not maul stores!) to view stones of different color/clarities side by side/in different light conditions, but the prices online are much more favorable. We were trying to figure out what was the lowest color and clarity we would be happy with in a WG or plat. setting, and have decided on H VS2/SI1 (but could be swayed if there was a great stone out there).

Right now Judi from Whiteflash has been helping me to select a few stones that could work, one is an .94 E/SI2, and the other is an 1.0 I/SI1...

If anyone knows of any reputable places in Milwaukee, or nearby (or even in Rockford, IL - that's where he lives) please let me know. There is one jeweler here who does custom work that I really like, and he has made rings for some friends. He purchases diamonds for clients, but doesn't stock any so if we bought from him, we would only be able to see the stone he has picked, not choose between 2 or 3 side by side.

The stone in question resides in Columbus, Ohio - I guess we could ask his sister to ship it, but why go through all of the hassle if we're not even sure we want to buy it? (Much of the advice I've received has swayed me in that direction).

And so the search continues... I am officially obsessed.

 

[hoorray]

----------------
On 2/17/2004 4:05:52 PM angela wrote:

And so the search continues... I am officially obsessed.----------------

It's easy to become obsessed

. Have fun with it -- you don't get to do this often enough!

 

[pqcollectibles]

I just had to show you this. I had a 3/4 carat, H color ACA from White Flash, and I traded it for a 1.25 carat, J color ACA. The H was set in white gold and this J is set in platinum, and I am still amazed at how white it is!!

Brian Gavin recommended this diamond to me after I called asking about an H and I colored diamonds. He pulled the diamonds I was interested in and Brian also pulled out this J. He was very excited about it. It's a bigger diamond and I payed less for it!!

 

[strmrdr]

Rockford, IL,

For the most part even the non-mall shops act like mall shops there.
Overpriced garbage and talk down to you if you know what your talking about or just plain ignore you.
If your spending 20k you might get one to tell you the time of day at the places that carry decent quality diamonds.

grunos carries some ags certed diamonds some of which are very well cut.
I found them to be a bit stuffy but maybe you might have better luck.

Claudio's on state street has built a fairly decent reputation but Iv never been in their store.

Mincemoyer totaly ticked me off. Avoid big time.

B. SANFIELD is a total jerk "I usualy deal with a higher class of customer" When I told him I wasnt interested in what he was pushing which were big totaly frozen spit diamonds.

Busch were the friendliest of the lot but the diamonds werent that great and they were a little pushy.

For a list of them look here:
http://www.weddingbuilder.com/jewelry.html

My biggest gripe is that at most size points they all might have 2 or 3 diamonds and even after you tell them its not what your looking for they try and push it on you.
Every last one of them tried it.

 

[angela]

Well, we (I) have finally decided on a stone. It's a WF Round Ideal Cut

Report: GIA
Shape: Round Ideal Cut
Carat: 1.00
Color: I
Clarity: SI1 (eye clean)
Depth: 60.3
Table: 57
Crown Angle: 34.9
Crown %: 15.1
Pavilion Angle: 41
Pavilion %: 43.4
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Culet: None
Fluorescence: No
Measurements: 6.53-6.54X3.94

It scores a 2.1 on the HCA, but Brian at WF told me it is a beautiful stone, and the price is right ($3746 PS wire).

I'm looking at the setting pqcollectibles got (and posted in this thread), but I'm having a hard time convincing my BF to spend about $1k on it in WG when there are many similar settings out there in platinum for around the same price. Any ideas? We'll talk about it this weekend - there's always the option of having a custom setting made here in Milwaukee...

 

[Patty]

angela, That looks like a great stone...Congratulations! As for the setting, I say get what you want. I prefer white gold over platinum although most people these days go for platinum.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I hear ya, Patty. My pocketbook said WG, but my finger says platinum. I guess years of working in labs changed the chemistry of the skin on my hands. Only reason I can figure. If I put a gold ring on, my finger starts to itch where the ring is in a very short period of time. Before you know it, I have a rash that takes a lloooonnngggg time to heal. Gold works every where else, but not on my fingers.

When it first started, I just wouldn't wear my gold rings and let my finger heal. Finally, I was at the doctor's office one day with one of the kids. On a lark, I asked the doctor about my finger. He suspected "Contact Dermatitis" and suggested I use cortisone cream when I planned to wear my rings. Even that didn't work. I had the rings cleaned. The jeweler had a new rhodium flash put on the inside. Nothing worked. Except platinum. Our jeweler lent me a platinum ring to try over the weekend when my finger healed up AGAIN, and it worked!!

Gorgeous diamond, Angela!!

The Ideal Scope is fantastic!!

I think you will absolutely love the ring too. A woman with GREAT taste!!

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 2/20/2004 5:11:18 PM angela wrote:

Well, we (I) have finally decided on a stone. It's a WF Round Ideal Cut

----------------

Oh well, that is one stone that could stand being looked at every day and never get one bored ! Surely deserves a well made custom setting...

 

[angela]

It has come down to deciding between the LE half bezel setting or this Michael Devlin piece - in white gold. The Michael Devlin piece would be at least $200 less with the wedding band, and it's kind of funky, but I need to see pictures of more angles of this ring to make sure.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Very pretty setting, Angela!!

 

[angela]

Well, we wired the $$ for the stone yesterday, (https://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Diamond_Details.aspx?idNo=586226) hoping it will ship today. I'm very excited to see it! Everyone I have spoken to at Whiteflash has been very helpful and personable on the phone.

If anyone has any other setting ideas (semi bezel) please, post them as I'm still deciding on what to go with. I've been searching everywhere online, and have drawn a lot of things up over the past several months, but aside from going to actual stores, there's not a huge selection.

I'm going mostly crazy trying to decide.

I'll be sure to post on the whole experience along with pictures of the finished product in Show Me the Ring. Thanks for all of the great advice.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Look out FedEx Drop Station!! Here comes Angela!!

 

[angela]

How true - they have NO idea what they're in for!

 

[angela]

Just a little update - we were able to get to Columbus this past weekend (a week early) and I took a look at the diamond that was in question. While it is pretty, I am so very glad that we went with the WF stone instead.

The other stone was very brilliant and white, but I could definitely see the inclusions (even though it was rated SI1 by EGL) and it didn't have any of the beautiful fire that the stone we bought exhibits. I think the stone we went with has so much character - if that makes any sense!

We had gone back and forth over settings so much that we decided it would be best to get a custom design, which I drew up. I get to see the final wax tomorrow - I'll take pictures - and hopefully I'll have the finished product in the next couple of weeks.

This has been an exciting experience, and I thank all of you who helped and gave me advice. If I wouldn't have found PS when I did, I would more than likely have that other stone. While it wouldn't have been the end of the world, I still feel better knowing more about the purchase, finding a more beautiful stone and having the great experience with Whiteflash that we did. We'll definitely be recommending them to everyone we know. Pictures of the ring will follow in Show Me The Ring... Stay tuned!