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Destroying America

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oshinbreez

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We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America''s finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let''s destroy America . It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that ''An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.''"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: ''The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.'' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on:


"Second, to destroy America, invent ''multiculturalism'' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal; that there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds."


"Third, we could make the United States an ''Hispanic Quebec'' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: ''The apparent success of our own multi-ethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'' Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."


"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of ''Victimology.'' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America''s downfall would include dual citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia, threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum" -- >From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the ''pluribus'' instead of the ''Unum,'' we will balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits. Make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of ''diversity.'' I would find a word similar to ''heretic'' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like ''racist'' or ''xenophobe'' halt discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of ''Victimology,'' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America , it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis''s book ''Mexifornia.'' His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don''t read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate ''diversity.'' American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America . Take note of California and other states. To date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell''s book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don''t get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.
 

rainbowtrout

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ummmmm...Belgium? Switzerland? India? China? Canada?

All bilingual or multilingual....


Pizza, bagels, Mexican takeout, curry...these are the "all-American" foods my friends and I missed in Morocco. Multi-culturalism CAN be a strength as long as you balance it with idealogical unity. I actually felt a little lost coming back from Morocco to find myself without this sense on ONE overwhelming culture which everyone shared, but I realized that Americans share an ideal of government and democracy which is our "glue," in a way.

That said, there is some merit to the idea that we need to focus on building up the education of the poor underclass and making sure everyone holds certain values in common. Democracy depends on avoiding too much disagreement, ironically enough.

Sorry if your post was a joke!
 

Pandora II

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Sadly some things here are becoming true in the Great Britain.

In the UK islamic groups are pressing for the introduction of Sharia law. With their stance on stoning of adultery and for leaving islam I find this very worrying especially for women.

I think integration is much healthier than segregation and multicultural societies.

Particularly worring is the latest government stance on the expansion of faith schools, especially amongst minority groups - despite a recent report that shows that segregated communities are very successful amongst jewish, sikh and hindu groups, but the opposite is true in muslim communities - where life chances, rights of women and social mobility is very much reduced. In turn this leads to many problems in a society of haves and have nots.
 

rainbowtrout

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Ah, and for ancient bi-lingual or multilingual, we have:

--once again China (united by a state language for government purposes)
--India (although not a united nation at that time)
--the ENTIRE ancient Turkish or Arab empires (united by a state language for government purposes, also united by religion)
--the Roman empire (Latin for government purposes)
--Ancient Assyria (mostly this worked because they were cruel and suppressive, honestly)


You could argue France if you take Provencal as so hard to understand vis a vis French it is a different language of sorts.

Oh, and I almost forgot:

Great Britain. Until VERY recently. And many Welsh still speak their native language. The British campaign to wipe out Gaelic and Welsh seemed to create more resentment than help unite the kingdom.
 

rainbowtrout

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Pandora:

Absolutely. There is no reason why "multicultural" has to mean tolerance for things which are criminal by the standards of the existing culture.
THe talk of allowing those from Turkey to carry out honor killings or those from Ethopia or Egypt to preform FGM makes me sick.


But integration doesn't have to mean you give up your food or your religion in its entirety. Multiculturalism doesn't have to be a bad word. Look at New York after 9/11.

If we are talking specifically about Islam, I have found that after living in it for a year that I do think there is a real divide, and that in many senses this "clash between east and west" does exist. There are simply values in Islam and more importantly, in the traditions of Islamic countries, which are incompatible with American values. It just...doesn't...work.

There's a good new book coming out called "THe Stillborn God" that I want to read, anybody heard of it?
 

angel_nieves

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As I read you post my heart wept. My family is of Mongolian, Irish, Dutch, Scottish, and Native American dissent. We have German, Japanese, Italian, and Malay married into our family My Cuban-Purto Rican husband laughs when our family gets together due to all the different skin tones and the various languages spoken. America I do believe was made up of immigrants from other nations and beliefs. I am but a simple girl and do not word my post in the most eloquent of ways so please forgive me if I offend anyone. To me the backlash of anti immigration is towards the Mexican and in some areas Muslim communities (my father sees this where he lives) I simply do not understand. However in the town I live in the racial diversity is amazing about 30% of the population of the town is Mexican. My husband is a local sheriff, and the Mexican areas in our town have the lowest crime rates than the White areas. I had to cut about half of this post out this is simply a topic that infuriates me. I simply want to restate I am but a simple girl and do not word my post in the most eloquent of words so please forgive me if I offend anyone.

However this country was made on the back of immigrants bringing their customs and ways.
 

surfgirl

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osinbreeze, your post made me so sad. Multi cultural societies are rich in diversity, passions, differences! I dont want to live in a cookie cutter society where everyone is like a stepford wife, thinking the same things, doing and acting the same way. It is extremely knee jerk to say that encouraging multi cultural society somehow encourages female genital mutiliation (and I work on this topic in developing countries so I know what I''m talking about). What you refer to are immigrants who have almost no assistance on assimilating into US cultural norms so they bring their cultural baggage with them, and most people who engage in FGM dont really want to but they dont see a way not to adhere to cultural practices. When given reasonable, safe alternatives to make them feel as is they''ve kept some small semblance of cultural norms, they are often quite willing to walk away from more destructive practices like the ones you reference. All it takes is some thoughtful communication, education, and non judegemental interventions. You cannot change someone''s behaviors if you dont take the time to understand why they do what they do.

You want to live in a non-ethnic country where everyone thinks the same? Looks the same? May I remind you of a little thing called Nazism? It''s not a good thing, trust me. Tolerance is, for some reason, a very difficult and threatening thing for people who buy into this "post 9/11 hysteria" that many people have bought into these days. I would encourage you to practice a little tolerance for the sake of the country you seem to want to "protect". In fact, the hysterical knee jerk animosity and discrimination US policy aims towards Muslims has exacerbated the extremist movement. Have you ever spoken to a Muslim in the US? Or in Asia? Do you know what they think? How they feel? Most are appalled at the goings on with Mulsim exrtemists, yet many Americans think all Muslims are extremists.
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angel_nieves

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Surfgirl you just wrapped up everything I wanted to say in a very tactful way. As a 25 year old I hope to be a wise as you one day.
 

rainbowtrout

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http://www.bravestmemorial.com/html/of_interest.html/list_of_heroes.html



Go look at those names and then tell me "multiculturalism" is destroying America. Here are a few:

Firefighter Nicholas Rossomando
Police Officer Antonio Rodrigues
Police Officer Richard Rodriguez
Police Chief James Romito
Police Officer Robert Fazio
Lieutenant Michael Esposito
Paramedic Carlos Lillo
Paramedic Ricardo Quinn
 

strmrdr

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Date: 9/11/2007 9:26:10 AM
Author: Macie
However this country was made on the back of immigrants bringing their customs and ways.
No, it was made from immigrants wanting to become Americans.
In the process America absorbed and gained a lot.
But now you have a large group who want to turn this country into Mexico 2.

My grandparents on my moms side came over from Germany in 1906.
The first thing they did was make their way to ND set down roots and learn English.
They became the American dream.
They were Americans.
Many of their children fought against Germany in WW2.
I''m all for legal immigration and people becoming Americans.
I will not bend to kiss someones fanny because they want it here like it was where they came from.
Obey our laws and follow the spirit of America or don''t come here.
It is that simple.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 9/11/2007 10:19:04 AM
Author: rainbowtrout
http://www.bravestmemorial.com/html/of_interest.html/list_of_heroes.html



Go look at those names and then tell me ''multiculturalism'' is destroying America. Here are a few:

Firefighter Nicholas Rossomando
Police Officer Antonio Rodrigues
Police Officer Richard Rodriguez
Police Chief James Romito
Police Officer Robert Fazio
Lieutenant Michael Esposito
Paramedic Carlos Lillo
Paramedic Ricardo Quinn
Americans with Spanish sounding names, your point?
I''d bet they would not like being compared to illegals.
The first and second generation legal immigrants that I know are more against illegal immigration than I am.
The are hurt by it more so than others as they work for the American dream.
 

oshinbreez

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What the original post meant to me is that America is being ripped apart. Where is the solidarity? I am an AMERICAN! I''m not a Mexican American, Chinese American, Latino American, African American, etc.

Storm seems to be the only one that understands what was meant by the post. Thanks.
 

rainbowtrout

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I was not comparing them to illegals. Oshinbreez's original post wasn't referring only to illegals. You can be Latino or African-American and still be *American.* My point was that those men weren't monocultural, and how do you know that their mother or father *wasn't* illegal? I am against illegal immigration, but that's not the point..

I am Italian-American but I am American first. Doesn't negate the fact that I have some Italian culture. You don't have to lose everything you were to become American. Obviously you respect the laws, you work within the existing culture, etc, etc.

My point was to show that the "solidarity" was very much in evidence in New York after 9/11. People who were all those hypenate Americans worked together and acted as heros, because they are American FIRST.
 

angel_nieves

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Storm ouch; I don’t know where you live or the population of Hispanics in your area. However I use to work in the social service sector (modified sells) of FEMA. When going to the homes yes I had to speak Spanish to them but in nearly every home I went to I gave them a pamphlet about local English classes being taught by our local Methodist church and other churches. They all where very interested in going. Last Wednesday I went to the pot luck at the church and was greeted not in perfect English but a good try by a couple of my old clients. I live in Clewiston Florida a small agricultural town where most of the field jobs are filled by Hispanics and Haitians and guess what most speak English or are learning. All the Hispanics in my husband’s family speak Spanish, English and Haitian.


Honestly and I know I am stepping on someone’s toes, but oh well. I have family on the local reservation that when I have discussed immigration with they are very amused by what whites think is relevant and what is good for the country. When Europeans came to this land they dare not give up their ways. In fact they where so blind to the Indian ways they displaced them, MURDERED them, took away part of their history and culture.


My grandfather who was from the Chickahominy Indian Tribe likes to say “dare not cross the white man for they only see what is beneficial to them and they do not look at what they have done or do to others for that is the way of the white man”. As I see more of the hate towards others and so little understanding being practiced I am starting to agree with that statement.
 

Skippy123

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Date: 9/11/2007 8:39:41 AM
Author:oshinbreez
We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of America's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, 'Mexifornia,' explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.
Did he expound on this topic or did he just tell you to read this book so he could sell more books? I am trying to figure out the point to your post. Maybe I just don't understand it; there seems to be 3 points of view in your post and I am trying to understand the point you are trying to make. Is it that we need to watch out for all people from different backgrounds and cultures? Oshinbreez, I think if you said how you felt it would help for clarification and no misunderstandings.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 9/11/2007 11:28:35 AM
Author: Macie

Storm ouch; I don’t know where you live or the population of Hispanics in your area. However I use to work in the social service sector (modified sells) of FEMA. When going to the homes yes I had to speak Spanish to them but in nearly every home I went to I gave them a pamphlet about local English classes being taught by our local Methodist church and other churches. They all where very interested in going. Last Wednesday I went to the pot luck at the church and was greeted not in perfect English but a good try by a couple of my old clients. I live in Clewiston Florida a small agricultural town where most of the field jobs are filled by Hispanics and Haitians and guess what most speak English or are learning. All the Hispanics in my husband’s family speak Spanish, English and Haitian.



Honestly and I know I am stepping on someone’s toes, but oh well. I have family on the local reservation that when I have discussed immigration with they are very amused by what whites think is relevant and what is good for the country. When Europeans came to this land they dare not give up their ways. In fact they where so blind to the Indian ways they displaced them, MURDERED them, took away part of their history and culture.



My grandfather who was from the Chickahominy Indian Tribe likes to say “dare not cross the white man for they only see what is beneficial to them and they do not look at what they have done or do to others for that is the way of the white man”. As I see more of the hate towards others and so little understanding being practiced I am starting to agree with that statement.
one of my clients at my last job was a charity that taught English too Latino immigrants so I am well aware of it.
There were some illegals there but the majority were legal trying to get ahead and build a life for themselves.
Good people.
 

angel_nieves

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Storm I do realize where you are coming from (still not agreeing with it). This is a pic of my coworker and I, her father is Ecuadorian and came here illegally, he saved up enough money for his children’s education and then worked on his legalization. His a grand old man and believes that some time you have to do what you can to better your life, even if that means crossing borders illegally and then assimilating to the best that they can to the local culture.
When I go to Miami or Palm Beach I like the fact of the diversity in the area. I can hear German, Spanish, Greek and a number of other European languages spoken. I also love
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the fact I can eat at restaurants that represent a number of different cultures.

l_9f07c2168fd5a0e4a8a80963d9deaced.jpg
 

Skippy123

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Which one is you Macie?
 

angel_nieves

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Skippy I am on the left.
 

strmrdr

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Do this too the flag that my family has fought and died for over hundreds of years and you are my enemy.

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angel_nieves

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Storm now I agree with you on the flag issue
 

angel_nieves

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Hmm the comment that I just made got to think what about all the times I have seen Americans defiling other nation flags. Just as other have no right to defile our flag neither do Americans have the right to defile another nations flag.
 

Skippy123

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Date: 9/11/2007 12:06:42 PM
Author: Macie
Skippy I am one the left.
Both the girls are beautiful, but I guessed you were the one on the left; beautiful!!!

I just want to say not fulling understanding Oshinbreez's point
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(becuase of the Legal immigrant part highlighted above). I feel lucky to attend/be invited to other cultural celebrations because it is so special and amazing. I also feel lucky to gain a little insight into other peoples cultures, who are most importantly human beings.
 

angel_nieves

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Thanks skippy, I agree with you on not fully understanding Ochinbreez point.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 9/11/2007 12:12:54 PM
Author: Macie
Hmm the comment that I just made got to think what about all the times I have seen Americans defiling other nation flags. Just as other have no right to defile our flag neither do Americans have the right to defile another nations flag.
Where have you seen Americans defiling others flags?
I haven''t seen it. Other than the nazi flag in ww2 and that needed doing.
I have seen Americans defiling our flag and they are my just as much my enemy as anyone else who would do so.
 

Pandora II

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I actually think immigration is a great thing - but only if people integrate to a certain extent.

I love the fact I can eat many different cultures food and hear different music - but I don''t think it''s healthy when minority groups want separate legal systems, separate schools etc. There are also complaints that holidays are based on Christian ones etc (we have no divison between church and state here) - Christianity is the faith Britain was built on (I''m an atheist so have no bias) and people are very scared that their historic values are being eroded and this does nothing to benefit migrants.

I also find it appalling that there are women here who after 20 years still speak no english - thus leaving them totally isolated.

I have lived in many other countries - in Italy I learn to speak fluent italian as fast as possible and I tried to take part in as much of their culture as I could. It didn''t stop me from being english - but it didn''t threaten their way of life.

We have huge numbers of polish people moving here now and they are making huge efforts to integrate - and they are made very welcome here.

This is a terribly tricky subject to discuss, and I applaud that everyone so far has put their points across in a very thoughtful way.
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luckystar112

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Am I lost here? When I read the post I didn''t think it had anything to do with the "dangers" or allowing people to celebrate their own cultures. I thought it was more about the lack of unity in America, and how we seem to make excuses for it rather than do anything about it. I agree with a lot of points in that post. I don''t necessarilly think that it will "destroy" us, but it weakens our foundation as "one nation, under God, indivisible". We''re obviously divisable, just look at your average city and all of the culture pockets. Its a natural thing for people to want to surround others with people that are like them, and celebrate their common bonds...and I am in NO way saying its a bad thing, but it has its disadvantages as well as its advantages, just like everything else! I also 100% agree with the "victimology" references, and that perhaps immigration isn''t "always" good.

I personally, like rainbowtrout, think that it shouldn''t have to be integraton OR segregation.
But I also don''t believe that there should have to be a terrorist attack for there to be a sense of unity in America.
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angel_nieves

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Here locally there are some problems between the Cuban, Purto Rican and whites. When I was going to Miami there where some white people flaming a Purto Rican flag, about a bock down the road where I use to eat the best roast pork the Purto Rican woman who was the cook there was crying asking why do they burn our flag? All I could do was to hug her and wonder about it myself.
 

door knob solitaire

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Firefighter Nicholas Rossomando
Police Officer Antonio Rodrigues
Police Officer Richard Rodriguez
Police Chief James Romito
Police Officer Robert Fazio
Lieutenant Michael Esposito
Paramedic Carlos Lillo
Paramedic Ricardo Quinn

No disrespect...RT...but this list of fine Americans destroys your point.

Why? They stood for and strived for and believed that being a member of this country was important enough to be ONE with it. Each one of these men (if they were not born here...) learned to speak English, passed the 50 question test in English, took the oath in English, once they were a Citizen they then began to pay taxes with the US currency, they got a Drivers license and THEN they got an education and training to make them a respected and valued member of our society.

They had the freedom to continue their cultural practices...they listened to the music of their choice, ate the food of their choice, WORSHIPED at their choice, participated in political elections as they choose. Were able to continue their own family heritage...but in so doing respected and honored what AMERICA stands for. They kept their names...and their ethnicity at the forefront of who they were. And America is far richer for having them as citizens.

We are grateful for their honoring our nation with the service they gave....But again these men would not agree with non conforming. It is what made them the fine Americans they were.

DKS

a ditch digger, and a trash man provide just as honorable part of our society. I am not saying that everyone has to have an education or vocation...just take part in equality as an UNITED NATION...through tax paying, registration, communicating etc.
 
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