DeBeers is Up For Sale

[smitcompton]

Hi,
DeBeers, a division of Anglo-Amercan Corp. has received a bid from BH Biliton for its purchase. BH Biliton is an Australian Company that deals n copper. The diamond market has not rebounded as was hoped by DeBeers and they reduced production of rough diamonds recently. They had to take a 1.6 billion impairment charge on their last quarterly earnings report. Copper is much more profitable.

Why do I keep posting this stuff. Because I do think diamond buyers ought to know what is happening in the market. Only Rockdimond tells us what is going on. Silemce from most everyone. else. I'm still looking for those lower cost diamonds. I can't find them.

Annette

 

[yodaling]

I was just asking the same question to myself recently. I read people talking about diamond pricing dropping. However, the retailers I have asked for price requote on some pieces I've asked a year before quoted me a higher price, not lower. So I am also still asking when am I supposed to see this "drop in diamond price" happening?

 

[Karl_K]

That is not surprising its a rebuilding industry with a lot of questions of what its going to look like in the future.
If you read Idex news and memo + Rapaport you will know more about the issues the trade is facing than many people in it.

News Room

Rap

News

The latest news and analysis on the diamond and jewelry industry.

rapaport.com

 

[Karl_K]

btw When I was at my computer more I posted industry news more and it would get one or 2 replies and a few dozen views.
It was not worth it.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

btw When I was at my computer more I posted industry news more and it would get one or 2 replies and a few dozen views.
It was not worth it.

i would read some of those, but i didnt really know or understand enough to comment,
but i look at lots of those trade threads

 

[foxinsox]

I find it fascinating and enjoyed your posts @Karl_K. I’m trying to gain a better commercial understanding overall since the company I work for builds software that is widely used in the mining industry. De Beers and Anglo are among our customers. Sadly this has also not resulted in any discounts on diamonds!

 

[oldminer]

Don't hold your breath for deep discounts in mined diamond prices. Likely, there will be a reduction in their supply creating some support for prices. Lots and lots of Lab diamonds will flood the market until selling them will be only done at whatever low price creates interest. There will never be a shortage of those and we'll see price stability when the rush slows down. It isn't the end of either product. All dealers, Mined and Lab, will have to use erasers on their price sheets as things float around for now.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

btw When I was at my computer more I posted industry news more and it would get one or 2 replies and a few dozen views.
It was not worth it.

Maybe people are more interested now that lab diamonds have shaken up the market and we consumers can see first hand the effects.

I was just asking the same question to myself recently. I read people talking about diamond pricing dropping. However, the retailers I have asked for price requote on some pieces I've asked a year before quoted me a higher price, not lower. So I am also still asking when am I supposed to see this "drop in diamond price" happening?

Les popular online retailers and for lower quality diamonds. People who are not in a rush might consider tracking prices on their wish list over several months. Perhaps the retailers who are not reducing prices on earth diamonds are making huge profits on over priced lab diamonds.

Don't hold your breath for deep discounts in mined diamond prices. Likely, there will be a reduction in their supply creating some support for prices. Lots and lots of Lab diamonds will flood the market until selling them will be only done at whatever low price creates interest. There will never be a shortage of those and we'll see price stability when the rush slows down. It isn't the end of either product. All dealers, Mined and Lab, will have to use erasers on their price sheets as things float around for now.

It is going to be a wild ride, for sure!

 

[smitcompton]

I was just asking the same question to myself recently. I read people talking about diamond pricing dropping. However, the retailers I have asked for price requote on some pieces I've asked a year before quoted me a higher price, not lower. So I am also still asking when am I supposed to see this "drop in diamond price" happening?

Hi,
Have you tried Blue Nile or James Allen. I noticed that one poster got a beautiful diamond for under $5,000 for a low 1ctw diamond.
The other that I just noticed was also Blue Nile 2.64 for 17000. The thread is on yesterday or todays posts.

Annette

 

[MissGotRocks]

Would love some vendor thoughts about pricing, natural diamond availability, and possible future predictions. Inasmuch as PS is a diamond education forum, I think it would bode well for lots of folks here to get a feel for the current market. It might be changing by the minute but we get no real insight into it. The education page here showed some price reduction but I am not really seeing it in real time.

 

[Karl_K]

To be 100% honest my answer on where the industry is going is your guess is as good as mine. I have received that same answer from a lot of trade members.
Warning: the following is opinion.
My guess is mined pricing is going to bounce up and down.
A lot of players are keeping the mined prices high and not selling much, while staying alive selling LGD
The rough decreases are not being passed on, mainly because there is a lot of goods they paid what is now to much money to get.
Availability of mined goods is getting lower and I think is going to trend even lower in the short term.
Sellers with strong upgrade policies are going to be the most resistant to decreases because a run of upgrades will put them under water quickly for the same reason stock will be kept lower with more higher priced high color/clarity goods.
Again this is just my opinion not facts.

 

[MissGotRocks]

To be 100% honest my answer on where the industry is going is your guess is as good as mine. I have received that same answer from a lot of trade members.
Warning: the following is opinion.
My guess is mined pricing is going to bounce up and down.
A lot of players are keeping the mined prices high and not selling much, while staying alive selling LGD
The rough decreases are not being passed on, mainly because there is a lot of goods they paid what is now to much money to get.
Availability of mined goods is getting lower and I think is going to trend even lower in the short term.
Sellers with strong upgrade policies are going to be the most resistant to decreases because a run of upgrades will put them under water quickly for the same reason stock will be kept lower with more higher priced high color/clarity goods.
Again this is just my opinion not facts.

Well, that would be my opinion too. I am guessing if some offered an answer, it could be all different tomorrow due to market fluctuations. I understand not wanting to be overstocked with prices up and down, but you can’t sell what you don’t have either. Probably frustrating for buyers and sellers. Thanks for your opinion Karl - I am sure it is probably spot on.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I have two possible scenarios that I will put forward. The potential buyer of DeBeers is a copper mining company. I don't know whether or not they expect to mine diamonds. If not, that means that no more diamonds from DeBeers will be available. Now, Russian sanctions impede the distribution of AlRosa diamonds. Botswana is the new headquarter of DeBeers. They too mine diamonds.

With that information, I see a shortage of diamonds, thus perhaps higher prices. This outcome would not be manipulation of the market. Just natural market forces.

As a counter to that possibility, we have the pressure of the trade in the US to maintain higher prices through other means. For example. For the week of March 6 The Rap Report show a 101 ctw H ex, ex, ex stone selling for 6300.00. A month later in April Rap showed that same diamond at 7800.00- a big jump. Garry and Rock diamond have said Mr, Rapport has bee threatened with death threats if he shows reductions in price. I think that is serious stuff. But obviously manipulative. They will fight hard to maintain prices.

The price of 6300.00 was discounted 34%. So the actual retail price of that diamond should be 4,100.00 -according to Rap.

I put this info on last week. Those in the trade did not find it useful, so I had the thread removed. (Admin didn't remove it)

Sometimes pieces of info dont make sense right away. But sometimes storing them pays off.

As Kar says --Just my thoughts
Annette

 

[RunningwithScissors]

There was a good article on this topic in the Wall Street Journal on Friday.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hey all!!
First off- I don’t believe I said Rappaport faced death threats - or anything of the sort…. But I have been very vocal about his completely unrealistic and unreasonable position on diamond pricing both lab and natural. Maybe so much so @smitcompton thought I wanted to “off him” hahaha
Seriously though…… there’s so much bull$hit flying around it’s near impossible to find the truth in the market.
That is to say: people lie. A lot….. when there’s money at stake.
As in so many circumstances trying to ascertain real market prices based on asking prices is a fool’s errand.
Looking at the prices on “the big boys” sites shows me a large reduction in prices on the most popular sorts of diamonds. Think 1.50 G/ VS RBC
There’s less of a drop I’ve seen in more boutique stones and or fancy shapes/ colors.
But again, asking prices tell us nothing. And there’s so many less of f these boutique stones sold as compared to RBCs.
So that makes it even more difficult. My fancy colored cutters are actually increasing asking prices. It’s a crazy world.
I agree with David Atlas about lab diamonds. But I think we may have reached a saturation point.
After all, companies willing to invest the large sums to build/ maintain reactors have probably already done so. So I don’t foresee a huge dumping of lab growns. Although the prices of larger stones (6ct plus or so) are bound to soften over time.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Just to say it is true that RockDiamond did not write about death threats. That was Garry. RockDiamond just told us about the criticism that Mr, Rappaport was receiving and that people said they would cancel their subscription to the Rap Report if he showed a reduction in prices. I think that is more accurate.

Well, DeBeers turned down the first offer.

Annette

 

[tomato]

Hi,

I have two possible scenarios that I will put forward. The potential buyer of DeBeers is a copper mining company. I don't know whether or not they expect to mine diamonds. If not, that means that no more diamonds from DeBeers will be available. Now, Russian sanctions impede the distribution of AlRosa diamonds. Botswana is the new headquarter of DeBeers. They too mine diamonds.

With that information, I see a shortage of diamonds, thus perhaps higher prices. This outcome would not be manipulation of the market. Just natural market forces.

As a counter to that possibility, we have the pressure of the trade in the US to maintain higher prices through other means. For example. For the week of March 6 The Rap Report show a 101 ctw H ex, ex, ex stone selling for 6300.00. A month later in April Rap showed that same diamond at 7800.00- a big jump. Garry and Rock diamond have said Mr, Rapport has bee threatened with death threats if he shows reductions in price. I think that is serious stuff. But obviously manipulative. They will fight hard to maintain prices.

The price of 6300.00 was discounted 34%. So the actual retail price of that diamond should be 4,100.00 -according to Rap.

I put this info on last week. Those in the trade did not find it useful, so I had the thread removed. (Admin didn't remove it)

Sometimes pieces of info dont make sense right away. But sometimes storing them pays off.

As Kar says --Just my thoughts
Annette

This tracks with my experience lately. I’ve been talking to a local family owned jeweler that does their own creation & repair about a tennis bracelet. He mentioned it was a good time to have one made back in March because prices on the diamonds for it would be about 30% lower at the time due to market fluctuations. I buy from them regularly and like to “talk shop” while I’m there.

 

[mrs-b]

Hi,
Have you tried Blue Nile or James Allen. I noticed that one poster got a beautiful diamond for under $5,000 for a low 1ctw diamond.
The other that I just noticed was also Blue Nile 2.64 for 17000. The thread is on yesterday or todays posts.

Annette

Was that me with the BN deal? I just recently bought an E SI1, 1.09ct for...(sorry - blanking here)...4700? Def under 5k, tho. I cant remember what the fluro was, but I remember thinking it was an excellent deal. Beautiful cut stats. I also recently bought a 1.6ct K VS2 pear with strong fluro for $2668. Also beautifully cut. It wasn't that long ago that both of these would have been unthinkable.

 

[smitcompton]

Was that me with the BN deal? I just recently bought an E SI1, 1.09ct for...(sorry - blanking here)...4700? Def under 5k, tho. I cant remember what the fluro was, but I remember thinking it was an excellent deal. Beautiful cut stats. I also recently bought a 1.6ct K VS2 pear with strong fluro for $2668. Also beautifully cut. It wasn't that long ago that both of these would have been unthinkable.

Hi mrs B,

I don't believe it was your diamonds that I was talking about. I know your moniker, and my impression was that the posters diamond was purchased by a young woman who was checking to see if she had made a good purchase. I think the 2.6 ctw was a guy.

At any rate I am delighted that you have done so well in your purchases, I think many on here are looking for examples such as yours. I'm really happy to see it. I think it reflects reality.

Enjoy your new stones Mrsb.

Annette