Deal...or No Deal?

[erainman]

I need help! I''m just beginning to take my education to the streets (i.e. I''m going into stores and looking at diamonds, trying to use my newly-learned diamond lingo the best I can), and I recently looked at 2 similar diamonds--both GIA certified Round Brilliant Stones. They were both beautiful, but I wanted to get some opinions on whether the price is right, so to speak. Here are the specs on each:

Stone 1:
Measurements: 8.12 - 8.19 x 5.03mm
Carat: 2.05
Color: I
Clarity: SI2
Cut Grade: Very Good
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Flourescence: None
Proportions: 61.7% depth, 59% table, 33.5° crown angle, 41.6° pavilion angle (The HCA gave the following grading: Light Return - Good, Fire - Fair, Scintillation - Fair, Spread - Very Good)
Price: $15,200

Stone 2:
Measurements: 7.99 - 8.04 x 5.04mm
Carat: 2.03
Color: H
Clarity: SI2
Cut Grade: Good
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Flourescence: Faint
Proportions: 6 2.9% depth, 58% table, 36.5° crown angle, 40.8° pavilion angle (The HCA gave the following grading: Light Return - Very Good, Fire - Very Good, Scintillation - Good, Spread - Very Good)
Price: $15,300


The only differences I observed between the stones in person is that Stone 1 looked bigger (even though they are basically the same carat size) and the color of Stone 2 was slightly better when looking at them side by side (although Stone 1 looked "white" on its own and would certainly look beautiful on a simple platinum setting so long as nobody holds an F next to it at the same time). From the HCA grading, it seems that Stone 1 would only be worthwhile if I was getting a deal, but that Stone 2 was definitely a nice stone "if the price is right". I thought both stones were equally scintillating, firey, etc., but then again, I''m no expert. My question is: At the prices listed, would I be getting a deal on either stone? Is the price definitely "right" on either stone or perhaps definitely "wrong"? I know it might be hard to say without pictures or an idealscope image, but any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks Again!

 

[chrono]

Stone 1 looks larger (and measures larger) than stone 2 because it has a smaller depth %. Carat is just the weight measurement. The physical dimension lets you know its actual size.

H and I are very close in colour and might be noticeable side by side, as you''ve observed. However, a I will look white when viewed alone.

 

[Ellen]

Have you seen many diamonds, to compare with these?

I''m not loving the PA on the first, or the CA on the second. They just go way past what I would consider...

 

[phoenixgirl]

If I were forced to decide between these two stones and only these two stones, I would pick the second based on cut. But neither of them is priced well or a particularly well cut stone, and number one''s cut is mediocre at best.

How about something like this, with strong blue flourescence to make up for the one color grade drop?

Or this, and AGS0 stone which scores below 2 on the HCA and is larger and cheaper than your stones?

 

[jayreneepea]

If you could just meld parts of these diamonds together, you''d have a nice looking stone. But, I''d say no deal -- you could do better.

Here is one from GOG for comparison...

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3068/

 

[phoenixgirl]

By the way, is this the second stone you looked at? Price with discount ranges from $12700 to $12880 for the same exact stone someone is trying to sell to you for $15300. Do a search on the front of the webpage here and you can see all the vendors who are listing it and their prices, with and without their PriceScope discounts. Even without the discount the highest price is $13347, and most vendors are under $13k.

Remember, everything sparkles under those jewelry store lights. I would recommend starting from square one. I wouldn't want to work with someone who was trying to sell me a stone for $2,000 to $2,500 over the going rate. You can assume that all of their stones are priced 20% too high.

 

[erainman]

I really, really appreciate all of the responses so far. It has certainly been eye-opening. I have a copy of the GIA Certification of Stone 2 (the H SI2) that I looked at in-store today (or at least what I was told I was looking at). The GIA Certificate # is 15682438. Lo and behold...it appears that this EXACT diamond is available for purchase through the following websites:

http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/diamonds/11896079

http://search.virtcert.com/cgi/u/1012/v.cgi?stock=7004616&_s=1012&_p=sdf348gd743&_c=&_fs=1&prestock=&_ln=ps

The diamond is selling for $12,850.00 and for $12,970.24 on those respective sites. I was told in store that it was $15,300.00. You can imagine my surpise at this. Can someone please explain this price difference? Are the cheaper prices listed on the website only available to certain people or are there hidden fees of some sort?

Or is the in-store jewler just trying to hose me?

I''d be really shocked if I was being charged such a premium in store for no apparent reason, especially since the person showing me the stone is the family member of one of my co-workers (and especially since it was so easy to locate this stone on line and see how much cheaper it''s being sold for online).

Any thoughts?


p.s. Thank you all again, and special thanks to Phoenix Girl for alerting me to this.

 

[Ellen]

B&M's (almost) always charge more, and just how much more is entirely up to them....

And sorry, I'm not sure if I've EVER heard of someone actually getting a deal from a jeweler who was a friend of the family, friend of a friend, etc.

 

[phoenixgirl]

I don't think they're trying to hose you. I think that the internet creates competition that makes prices more, well, competitive. At that same time, why shouldn't they charge you $15k if you'll pay it, right? It's your responsibility to do the research on such an important purchase. If you take their word for it that the stone is worth that much and are willing to spend that much, is that really a crime?

Some other things to consider:

$15,300 is probably a starting point. If you'll pay it, great for them. If not, they have a good starting point to cut one or two thousand dollars and still be able to make a profit. I'm sure they didn't anticipate you'd locate the same exact stone listed for less online. Each of those online vendors has cut their prices a bit to make them comparable or better than the next vendor's price for the same stone. Obviously there is a bottom below which they can't go. So to charge a bit more when you have more upkeep, that's just staying afloat and making a living. Jewelry stores are businesses, not charities.

You pay some for local service. It's more expensive to call a stone in to your store than to post its dimensions on the internet. It costs more to pay for for a storefront space than to keep up a website, and so on and so forth. Many people enjoy the one on one interaction and the ability to visit a real-life store for the upkeep of their stone.

That said, I wouldn't blame you if you feel this store has blown it. You were supposed to have an in with a family friend, and instead you were given a crap price on a poorly cut stone. I really don't think I'd bother. But if you don't want to buy online, now that you know what you can get online, I think you can decide that you'll spend 5 to 10 percent more for a well-cut stone locally, if that's what's important to you. But if it's all about price, let us help you find a stone. It's fun for us!

Whatever you decide, good luck!

 

[Stone Hunter]

I like the 1st one that Phoenix Girl posted from GOG.

I personally wouldn''t pay more just to buy at a B&M. If you want to that''s up to you. Of course you could visit GOG or WF or JA if you were willing to travel. That way you''d have the best of both worlds. People on PS have done that!

 

[erainman]

Thank you all for your help. This whole process is exciting, albeit a little frustrating.

I''ve come to understand that, in general, most B&M stores usually mark up their prices 50-65% from cost and most internet retailers will mark up their prices only 10-20%. I know that these percentages may vary from store to store, city to city, etc. and may also vary depending on the type/size of stone, etc., but is this generally correct?

For instance...Stone 2 is selling in-store for roughly $15K and online for roughly $13K. Is there any way to deduce (approximately) what the cost is? If the percentages I''ve outlined above are correct, that would mean that the cost of Stone 2 is actually around $10K. Would that be a fair guess?

Thanks again for all of your help!