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DC Crash

I hope there will be survivors!

DK :(
 
Sorry. Please report the above image if you think it’s too much or offensive.

This is so tragic.
 
monarch64 said:
Sorry. Please report the above image if you think it’s too much or offensive.

This is so tragic.
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I have seen the same photo in The Times in UK and am following the tragedy.

DK :(
 
Ugh so tragic.
From what I understand just like in the NYC area airports there is not much room for error due to the congested airspace.
Devastating :(
 
missy said:
Ugh so tragic.
From what I understand just like in the NYC area airports there is not much room for error due to the congested airspace.
Devastating :(
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In UK, there are talks of a third runway in Heathrow, again, and concerns have been raised with regard to congested airspace in the area, again.

IMHO, the area around Heathrow is too built up to cope with more air traffic. I would not want to live there as the noise of planes taking off and landing is horrendous for those living under the flight paths and close to the airport.

However, I suspect it will generate more opportunities to work at Heathrow, and more footfall for the airport, etc. etc...

DK :confused2:
 
dk168 said:
In UK, there are talks of a third runway in Heathrow, again, and concerns have been raised with regard to congested airspace in the area, again.

IMHO, the area around Heathrow is too built up to cope with more air traffic. I would not want to live there as the noise of planes taking off and landing is horrendous for those living under the flight paths and close to the airport.

However, I suspect it will generate more opportunities to work at Heathrow, and more footfall for the airport, etc. etc...

DK :confused2:
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Honestly it is one of the reasons I do not want to fly. It is not an ideal take off and landing situaton at the area airports. Such a short runway and so much air traffic. The price we pay for living in an urban environment and really we don't have that many options for airports though IIRC La Guardia has the shortest runway of the area airports. And I am tired of the BS others spout that a shorter runway does not make for a riskier experience. Because add in the air traffic congestion and it can be a recipe for disaster.

My hearts go out to the families of those who lost loved ones in this latest air tragedy. No words to bring them comfort because it is a devastating tragedy
 
@missy I only fly when I have to, and there is no flying this year unless it is work related.

I don't like flying as there is a lot of time being wasted at the airports.

To me personally, it is still a very safe form of travel.

No more going to Vancouver every 2 years to visit my mum, so flying now will be for work or pleasure and not duty.

DK :))
 
dk168 said:
@missy I only fly when I have to, and there is no flying this year unless it is work related.

I don't like flying as there is a lot of time being wasted at the airports.

To me personally, it is still a very safe form of travel.

No more going to Vancouver every 2 years to visit my mum, so flying now will be for work or pleasure and not duty.

DK :))
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Objectively you are on point DK. Flying is safer than driving for example
It's just so much is out of our control flying

Condition of the plane
Expertise of mechanics and pilots and all involved in a successful flight
Mood of the important players (ie pilot suicidal? Depressed? Drinking? Etc)
Weather conditions. Other air traffic. Traffic controllers. And more

And as you write the waiting and waiting and waiting
Getting to the airport hours before your flight make it a less efficient travel option

However statistics bear out that flying is safer than other travel options
The thing is, if you crash, your chance at survival is lower than if you are in a car accident
So all the above reasons give me pause about flying

I know it is a necessity for many
And I do want to just get over this fear and fly again
But not right now
One day
I hope
 
Such a sad tragedy and my heart goes out to all affected. Thankfully, there are not a lot of in air mishaps but when they happen, it is just utter devastation.
 
HI:

No words, only tears.

kind regards, Sharon
 
It’s so awful. I don’t really understand why a Blackhawk helicopter was in airspace. Usually in DC they will clear airspace when there are military aircraft? But I don’t know. They said it was on a training. Air Traffic control changed the runway for the plane right before it happened.

So so terrible.
 
It’s so heartbreaking. The news reports last night when this was reported sounded awful. You always hope that miraculously there will be many survivors.

So many things in life are out of our control. Our lives can change in an instant.
 
Mreader said:
It’s so awful. I don’t really understand why a Blackhawk helicopter was in airspace. Usually in DC they will clear airspace when there are military aircraft? But I don’t know. They said it was on a training. Air Traffic control changed the runway for the plane right before it happened.

So so terrible.
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From the news reports last night, they said that the Black Hawks frequently fly in the same air space. They often fly between the Pentagon and Ft. Belvoir. They fly in a much lower air space but clearly something got misdirected last night. I guess it will all eventually be sorted out, but just so sad and tragic!
 
I so hope that no one suffered, and the end was quick for all their sakes. I just don't understand how the helicopter pilots said they saw the plane and would be responsible for avoiding it, and then flew right into the side of it.
 
They may have been looking at another plane, is what I've read.
 
It can take the NTSB up to a year to investigate and piece together the events that lead up to these types of accidents.
This is an enormous tragedy wherein our leaders typically comfort and console, allowing the professionals do their jobs. Egocentric Politicizing by stupidly blaming a predecessor’s policy with baseless accusations is beyond comprehension. :angryfire:
 
MissGotRocks said:
From the news reports last night, they said that the Black Hawks frequently fly in the same air space. They often fly between the Pentagon and Ft. Belvoir. They fly in a much lower air space but clearly something got misdirected last night. I guess it will all eventually be sorted out, but just so sad and tragic!
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My husband is a helicopter pilot and has flown in this restricted airspace for 25+ years before even restricted (first as a news chopper pilot in DC, and later medevac medical pilot). His take is that radio tower messed up. Often military flies without their transponders on, so the plane could not see them. The plane was above them, in a blind spot, so makes sense they didn't see the helicopter. This is a tragic accident. Multiple issues going on. The letter Collision Alert popped up at air control and should have stopped the collision. The controller failed to monitor. The helicopter may have seen another airplane on approach, there were 5 or 6 on final for that runway. Due to wind, they were diverted to one runway that works best in high winds. It is a real tragedy.
 
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MMtwo said:
My husband is a helicopter pilot and has flown in this restricted airspace for 25+ years before even restricted (first as a news chopper pilot in DC, and later medevac medical pilot). His take is that radio tower messed up. Often military flies without their transponders on, so the plane could not see them. The plane was above them, in a blind spot, so makes sense they didn't see the helicopter. This is a tragic accident. Multiple issues going on. The letter Collision Alert popped up at air control and should have stopped the collision. The controller failed to monitor. The helicopter may have seen another airplane on approach, there were 5 or 6 on final for that runway. Due to wind, they were diverted to one runway that works best in high winds. It is a real tragedy.
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We listened to the ATC tower tape. The controller pointed out the traffic to the Black Hawk, to which he (helicopter) responded, “traffic in sight.” The controller then told him to pass behind the traffic. When a pilot responds, “traffic in sight” he/she is then responsible to maintain separation visually. It’s highly probable the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight. DH is a 36 year career airline pilot (retired) that has flown in out of DCA numerous times.

Btw MMtwo, DD is currently a Critical Care Flight Paramedic on a medivac chopper so I respect and appreciate your DH’s chopper experience!
 
Bonfire said:
We listened to the ATC tower tape. The controller pointed out the traffic to the Black Hawk, to which he (helicopter) responded, “traffic in sight.” The controller then told him to pass behind the traffic. When a pilot responds, “traffic in sight” he/she is then responsible to maintain separation visually. It’s highly probable the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight. DH is a 36 year career airline pilot (retired) that has flown in out of DCA numerous times.

Btw MMtwo, DD is currently a Critical Care Flight Paramedic on a medivac chopper so I respect and appreciate your DH’s chopper experience!
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In watching tonight, I saw another plane above this incident. I told my husband I bet the helicopter pilot saw that plane and mistook it for the actual plane they should have spotted. It seems the only thing that makes sense - you are watching another plane while seemingly running directly into the one you didn’t sight. All speculation of course and we will have to wait for the report. I guess the mind just tries to figure out how such a terrible tragedy occurred.
 
Its not going to be one thing, it was a combo of things.
I'm not going to pretend to know them all.
This is not the first instance of helicopters and plane air space conflicts just the first fatal one there. Some reports are saying not the first this week.
There is a systematic problem there by the sounds of it.
 
Bonfire said:
We listened to the ATC tower tape. The controller pointed out the traffic to the Black Hawk, to which he (helicopter) responded, “traffic in sight.” The controller then told him to pass behind the traffic. When a pilot responds, “traffic in sight” he/she is then responsible to maintain separation visually. It’s highly probable the helicopter had a different aircraft in sight. DH is a 36 year career airline pilot (retired) that has flown in out of DCA numerous times.

Btw MMtwo, DD is currently a Critical Care Flight Paramedic on a medivac chopper so I respect and appreciate your DH’s chopper experience!
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Oh yes, hubby mentioned the exact same with the visual separation. Most probably the helicopter was watching the wrong plane. Hubs is in full agreement.

Hugs to DD. It’s a wild gig but so fulfilling!

Edit, helicopters are supposed to stay below 200 feet to avoid traffic with DCA. Blackhawk was at 400.
 
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The removal of the Aviation Security Advisory Commission, the Head of Transportation Security Administration three days before.
Deliberate understaffing. Incompetence.
And a refusal to ever accept responsibility of any kind.

We hadn't had a crash in 15 yrs.

Using DEI as an excuse.

It's repulsive.


The specter and threat of starving babies and old people just a few days ago.
And our first concentration camp.

It's week two. What has America done.
It's not a question, it's a condemnation.
 
It’s sad. This tragedy is horrific. And yet somehow politics can’t be kept out of it. Lives lost and families forever shattered. SMH
The truth will come out. It always does. Albeit it may take a long time. But the truth will eventually be revealed. Right now it’s all surmising and it does no one any good least of all the families who lost precious loved ones. I’m so sick of the media that twists everything. These past 16 months have proven how social media and “news” professionals cannot be trusted. That’s a fact.
 
Just listened to atc audio on youtube from the night before.
There was a near miss between an aircraft and a helicopter within yards of this one the night before.
The planes warning system went off in time and they pulled up and went around.
It sent shivers down my neck.
 
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