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Day Care

amc80

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B has been at his current day care since January, and we've been happy with it. The only issue I have is that he is sick a lot, and I know that's to be expected with any large day care facility. However, he is now getting bit by another kid. He tends to get picked on in general, which is weird, because he's the biggest one in the class (but one of the youngest). He's gotten bit I think four times in the past few weeks. The teachers told me who it is doing the biting (even though they aren't supposed to say) and it's a little girl. B currently has two teeth marks on his back (top and bottom teeth) that went through his shirt. We are going to be talking with the director.

In the mean time, I've researched other options. I have seen ads around work for an in-home day care. It is owned by a husband and wife. The wife works at my company and the husband used to. Apparently, the husband quit his job here so he could take care of his two grand kids, and decided to get licensed and watch other kids. The wife gets off mid-afternoon and helps out when she's home. I spoke to her and she said they do a lot of learning activities, play time, outside time, etc., so it does sound legit. They are fully licensed and in compliance, according to the county website. As an added bonus, it would save about $50 a week.

But, I can't get past that it's a man running the show. I know that sounds horrible, but I don't think there's one male caretaker at B's day care (nor was there one at his previous day care). I love the idea of a smaller setting, but I really don't know if DH would go for this. Do you have any thoughts? Is it weird to you?
 

TooPatient

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I'd want to meet the man first, but then again I'd also want to meet a woman first too.

Some of the most caring, attentive parents I've seen were fathers. Some of the most nasty irresponsible were mothers. BUT regardless of how outdated and horrible it is, a lot of people (if they were honest with themselves) feel more comfortable with women in childcare positions.

Can you meet the husband first?
Do they allow you to stop by and observe for a couple of days if you'd like?
Would they allow you to try a couple of days and see how B does?



FWIW, my grandmother took care of kids in her home up until just a few months before she died. She NEVER had a problem with talking to parents before having their kids come in. They could stop by and watch if they wanted to. She required a "trial" week to make sure the kid settled in comfortably and the parents were okay with the arrangement.
 

monkeyprincess

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amc, you're not the only one that worries about that. My SIL owns and operates my son's daycare facility, and she has nearly 50 employees, and not one of them is a guy. It's mainly because no guys really apply, but she told me that the one time they did hire a guy, a lot of the parents were really freaked out about it. It seems so silly because as TooPatient was saying, so many men make wonderful fathers. I guess there just is a stigma about men watching other people's children.

As far the daycare goes, I think you have to be extra careful when choosing an in-home daycare . I know a lot of people like them and prefer the smaller size, but the drawback I see is that in a daycare facility there are several people watching the children, so they are never left unattended, and if someone is having a bad day or gets distracted, there are other people there to pick up the slack. I'm not saying all larger facilities are good quality daycares, but there is just a lot more oversight and state regulation and checks and balances. It would be really hard for me to leave my child in someone's home unless I 100% trusted them, and felt good about the situation. Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear B is getting bitten. I would definitely talk to the director and see what they are doing to address it.
 

TooPatient

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monkeyprincess|1383143247|3547438 said:
amc, you're not the only one that worries about that. My SIL owns and operates my son's daycare facility, and she has nearly 50 employees, and not one of them is a guy. It's mainly because no guys really apply, but she told me that the one time they did hire a guy, a lot of the parents were really freaked out about it. It seems so silly because as TooPatient was saying, so many men make wonderful fathers. I guess there just is a stigma about men watching other people's children.

As far the daycare goes, I think you have to be extra careful when choosing an in-home daycare . I know a lot of people like them and prefer the smaller size, but the drawback I see is that in a daycare facility there are several people watching the children, so they are never left unattended, and if someone is having a bad day or gets distracted, there are other people there to pick up the slack. I'm not saying all larger facilities are good quality daycares, but there is just a lot more oversight and state regulation and checks and balances. It would be really hard for me to leave my child in someone's home unless I 100% trusted them, and felt good about the situation. Just my two cents.

Sorry to hear B is getting bitten. I would definitely talk to the director and see what they are doing to address it.

Yes to the bolded!

In home daycare can be wonderful. The kids my grandmother cared for all called her Nana (the original parents suggested this and other parents liked the idea) and had a special rose bush planted in her garden right in line with us grandkids. They received exceptional care including educational stuff in her home and visits to interesting places.

Just a few miles away, a woman left a pot of oil on the stove and went grocery shopping while the kids in her daycare were locked in cribs & playpens unattended. The oil caught fire and (if I remember correctly) all of the kids died.

Larger centers have multiple people watching and safeguards in place. You may be more likely to deal with sick kids or biting kids, but some of the other concerns aren't really there.

IF you can find a really good in home, the experience for B could be wonderful. I think it is in part because the kids do get to form a bond with the person watching them -- very different from several people (who may or may not stick around for any length of time). It may also be easier to work with them if B is sick or you have a change in work schedule.

I guess what I'm saying is check it out and see how you feel about it after looking around. It can't be healthy for B to always be picked on (especially with that much biting!) so looking at what could be a great alternative seems reasonable.
 

amc80

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Thank you for the replies!

When I picked up B yesterday he had a giant knot on his forehead. I asked what happened and they said he was playing in one area of the room by himself and all of a sudden started crying, and then a bit later the bump appeared. Which means he obviously wasn't being watched when it happened. The timing of it worked out well because after I told DH about it, he said "I hate day care," and I started telling him about the new day care. He is open to checking it out.

The lady who owns the home day care said we can come check it out, and they would need to meet B to make sure he's a good fit as well. She said she will give us the numbers of the other parents and we are welcome to call them.

As it turns out, the biter in B's class is leaving. That makes me happy. But I'm sure another will come along. I totally hear what you guys are saying about the safety issues with home day cares. It worries me as well. One thing I do love about his current place is they have a camera so I can watch him all day if I want. Right now there are 12 kids and 2 teachers and that just seems like a lot of kids...because if one teacher is changing a diaper then that means there is 1 teacher wrangling 11 kids.

It's such a tough decision. When we have #2 we will probably just have DH stay home with them.

TooPatient- Yikes! What a horrible story!!
 

aviastar

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amc, you know I don't have children yet, but I did work for a large and wonderful daycare facility when I was just out of college. I worked with the older kids, mostly before and after school, so it is different, but we did have a male staff member who was really wonderful. Especially as the kids got older, it was very clear that many of the boys gravitated to having another 'boy' they could rely on and talk to.

And my BIL is the stay at home caregiver for their family; but even with both of those experiences I did have to check my gut reaction to your post. I agree with everyone else- check it out, throughly, the way you would for any other child care situation, but I think the intrinsic hesitation of having a man be the primary caregiver is one of our own making.
 

CurlySue

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Quick thoughts on the male issue...

I looked at over 20 daycare options for my daughter before landing on one that I felt comfortable with. I looked at larger centers, in-home care options, and nannies. We ended up with an in-home center. Why? Because of the comfort level I felt with the woman running it. That's ultimately what it came down to for us. So even if you feel weird about the fact that it's a man running it at the moment, it's worth it to meet him, see the set up, etc. After talking to him and seeing the place, you may have a different feeling about the situation, or you might still walk away thinking it's weird.

Also, I am happy to give my experience with the in-home option so far if you want some other perspective, especially b/c I was initially VERY averse to in-home providers at the start of our search. Turns out it was the best fit for us!
 

Kunzite

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I think the choice to have a man watch B is ultimately your comfort level and what your gut tells you, so I'm going to leave that alone and comment on your reason for looking into alternative child care. Having been home with my 3 for the past year I have a pretty good grasp of what can happen during a day. I think if you want to move from a center to in-home you're going to need to be MORE forgiving of these little accidents, which is contrary to your reason for looking. Your example of 1 teacher watching 11 kids during a diaper change is a good one because in your example there is still someone available to watch the remaining kids. Do you know what happened today in the 2 minutes it took me to change an especially nasty poop diaper? Elliot climbed on top of the bead maze, got his foot stuck between the wires, and fell off twisting his ankle (his foot was still stuck). Now he has a nasty bruise on his foot. Even if I had been in the same room while changing the diaper I couldn't have stopped it happening. I couldn't leave a poop covered baby on the changing table. My point is that with one caregiver for multiple children there will be more opportunities for small situations, not less. The same thing with B getting a bump on his head while playing independently, a caregiver cannot have eyes on all children at all times. What happens if this man's grandson falls down and he goes to comfort him? His eyes will be off B, even if it's just for a second. And who's to say the second kid wouldn't take that opportunity to bite B? I had something similar happen with Oliver. He's never been physical with the little ones but one week he took every single opportunity he had when I left the room to try to ride one of them like a pony!! :o :o I went to the bathroom a lot less that week!! My point isn't to debate whether a center or in-home is better, but just to have you really look at whether an in-home provider would actually solve the issues you're having.
 

NewEnglandLady

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CurlySue|1383154572|3547591 said:
Quick thoughts on the male issue...

I looked at over 20 daycare options for my daughter before landing on one that I felt comfortable with. I looked at larger centers, in-home care options, and nannies. We ended up with an in-home center. Why? Because of the comfort level I felt with the woman running it. That's ultimately what it came down to for us. So even if you feel weird about the fact that it's a man running it at the moment, it's worth it to meet him, see the set up, etc. After talking to him and seeing the place, you may have a different feeling about the situation, or you might still walk away thinking it's weird.

Also, I am happy to give my experience with the in-home option so far if you want some other perspective, especially b/c I was initially VERY averse to in-home providers at the start of our search. Turns out it was the best fit for us!

Was going to chime in, but this summed up everything I was going to say to a T. We looked at/interviewed many options before deciding on care and ended up with in-home because we felt most comfortable with the woman who runs it. All of her strategies aligned with ours and if she were a man, I would have loved her just as much.

During our interview, we also met our caretaker's husband, who is home starting around 3pm and helps to watch the kids until 5:30 (pick up time) and we really liked him as well. He's one of those guys who is a natural with kids, so that affected my decision as well.

Agree that there are pros and cons to every option. Like CurlySue, we weren't keen on going the in-home route prior to the interviews, but ended up being most comfortable with her/the environment/the schedule. So far it's been really good. We lucked out that the other kids at daycare are really sweet and our kid is super careful (not the type to jump off of things or throw caution to the wind), so we've had no issues with bumps/bruises.
 

amc80

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Kunzite|1383156798|3547626 said:
I think the choice to have a man watch B is ultimately your comfort level and what your gut tells you, so I'm going to leave that alone and comment on your reason for looking into alternative child care. Having been home with my 3 for the past year I have a pretty good grasp of what can happen during a day. I think if you want to move from a center to in-home you're going to need to be MORE forgiving of these little accidents, which is contrary to your reason for looking. Your example of 1 teacher watching 11 kids during a diaper change is a good one because in your example there is still someone available to watch the remaining kids. Do you know what happened today in the 2 minutes it took me to change an especially nasty poop diaper? Elliot climbed on top of the bead maze, got his foot stuck between the wires, and fell off twisting his ankle (his foot was still stuck). Now he has a nasty bruise on his foot. Even if I had been in the same room while changing the diaper I couldn't have stopped it happening. I couldn't leave a poop covered baby on the changing table. My point is that with one caregiver for multiple children there will be more opportunities for small situations, not less. The same thing with B getting a bump on his head while playing independently, a caregiver cannot have eyes on all children at all times. What happens if this man's grandson falls down and he goes to comfort him? His eyes will be off B, even if it's just for a second. And who's to say the second kid wouldn't take that opportunity to bite B? I had something similar happen with Oliver. He's never been physical with the little ones but one week he took every single opportunity he had when I left the room to try to ride one of them like a pony!! :o :o I went to the bathroom a lot less that week!! My point isn't to debate whether a center or in-home is better, but just to have you really look at whether an in-home provider would actually solve the issues you're having.

You bring up some great points. And I think my original post did make it sound like the little incidents are the main issue. They are definitely a part of it but not the entire thing. I understand he's a toddler and will get bumps and bruises and such. I mean it happens when I'm home with him one on one. But it's other stuff as well...like him constantly being sick. Just yesterday there was a girl there with pink eye. It was obviously pink eye and her parents still dropped her off until later in the day when the school made the parents come get her. It also feels like a one-size-fits-all sort of deal. I understand why they need to do this, I mean there must be some schedule and order when you have 12 kids. But 14 months (well, he's been in that room since 11 months) seems awfully young to be on one nap a day. And I know he needs more because on the weekends he almost always takes a second nap. Just little things like this that I know wouldn't be an issue at a home day care since his care can be more personalized to his needs. But I do get what you are saying, and it's something to think about.

I think all of the options suck and I wish I could just stay at home.
 

monkeyprincess

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amc80|1383160750|3547670 said:
I think all of the options suck and I wish I could just stay at home.

Big, huge ditto to that!
 

Puppmom

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AMC, sorry you're feeling stressed about daycare. I used in home daycare with my eldest (she's 18) and loved it. If you find the right fit, I think it can be a good alternative.

I use traditional daycare for my second and like that too. Given the opportunity I would stay home but that's not an option for us.

One thing that was an issue for me with in home was the time off I had to take because our sitter was sick or had personal issues to handle. The notice is usually short for obvious reasons and would mean I had to call out of work. I was also stuck taking vacation at the same time as the sitter. Is your manager flexible with your time off?

I know two grandpas who are primary caregivers for their grandchildren and they're amazing! Lucky kids!
 

TooPatient

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puppmom|1383177610|3547833 said:
AMC, sorry you're feeling stressed about daycare. I used in home daycare with my eldest (she's 18) and loved it. If you find the right fit, I think it can be a good alternative.

I use traditional daycare for my second and like that too. Given the opportunity I would stay home but that's not an option for us.

One thing that was an issue for me with in home was the time off I had to take because our sitter was sick or had personal issues to handle. The notice is usually short for obvious reasons and would mean I had to call out of work. I was also stuck taking vacation at the same time as the sitter. Is your manager flexible with your time off?

I know two grandpas who are primary caregivers for their grandchildren and they're amazing! Lucky kids!


Great questions to ask!

What do they do if the man is sick?

How much vacation (and when) do they take each year?

If they have a personal thing to deal with, how do they do that? (take the kids with? wait for the wife to get home?)



On the flip side:
My grandmother used to watch kids on weekends sometimes too if one or the other parents was sick and needed the help. She was also willing to do extra early mornings or later afternoons as needed. Sometimes she even did over night so the parents could go out. If the kids she was watching were siblings (or in one case neighbors who carpooled), she'd even allow the parents to bring their sick kids rather than miss work (clearly not the same with random kids who weren't exposed or for anything too bad!). I even remember older school aged kids coming when they were sick (again, only if it was just their own sibling who would be there) so the parents didn't have to leave them home alone or miss work.


Depending on how they handle vacation and sick days, that could either be a benefit or a challenge.
 

CurlySue

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TooPatient|1383202456|3548005 said:
Great questions to ask!

What do they do if the man is sick?

How much vacation (and when) do they take each year?

If they have a personal thing to deal with, how do they do that? (take the kids with? wait for the wife to get home?)


Depending on how they handle vacation and sick days, that could either be a benefit or a challenge.


Yep, all of these questions/concerns were why I initially didn't think in-home was going to work for us. I assumed vacation/sick days for the provider would leave us stuck at home a lot. I was also worried about the one-caregiver issue. Through my interviews, I learned that a LOT of the in-home providers used assistants (and if they did, I asked about their hiring/screening practices to ensure it wasn't just somebody's friend or teenage daughter or whatever), which helped create better ratios (in many cases) than we would have had at a center. It also got around the sick day situation (with my current provider anyway) in that there are assistants that rotate days, and in the case of a sick day, both assistants work or one covers for the other or whatever. So... I think that the really good and savvy in-home providers understand that parents need to get to work.

When I called past and current parents, a lot of the questions I asked them were about how often they needed to find alternate care, for what reason, how they did it, etc. I got very consistent answers from them, which supported what our provider had explained to me during the interview process.

I will say that our provider is pretty flexible when we need her to be, as long as we don't abuse that flexibility. Her hours are stated as 7:30 to 5:30, but I know when my husband travelled for work (he typically does drop-off b/c I need to get in earlier), I didn't even have to ask her about an earlier drop-off time - she actually suggested it.

So again... it really comes down to seeing what a center or an in-home provider or whomever can provide, what their practices are, etc. I think wherever you end up sending your child for care, you really need to trust that the people are good people who deliver on what they say they will do for you. It's hard to take that leap of faith, obviously, but I think your gut will tell you what's right.
 

amc80

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I'm lucky that I can work from home when needed, so if the caregiver is sick it isn't a huge deal. Vacations are a great question, though. I guess as long as I knew in advance I could get my mom in town to watch B, so it probably wouldn't be a huge issue. I think it will come down to a gut check. DH is a deputy sheriff and has really good instincts on people, so if he thinks it's a good situation it probably is.
 

jfo

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amc, I don't have much more to add because I think the other mamas here have said a lot of what I would say, but I just wanted to let you know that I can relate and I really hope you can find a childcare situation that you, your husband and B are comfortable with.

I have such mixed feelings about daycare. The one that we are at is really great--I love the teachers, the curriculum that they cover each week, and the care and socialization that L receives. I DO NOT love the fact that every week, L comes home with a new virus. She's only been bit once, thankfully. I also hate to think that sometimes she needs attention and the teachers are busy with other kids and can't get to her right away... but I also know that's part of life, I guess--you sometimes have to wait your turn if it's not critical. I also sometimes wish for the convenience of a nanny so that I don't have to run around in the morning to get everything and L ready to go to daycare and then commute to work. The daycare is not as conveniently located now that we moved to our new house and my commute time has increased another 20 minutes.

12 kids and 2 teachers in one classroom seems like a not ideal child to teacher ratio. L's classroom has a maximum of 8 kids (I've only ever seen 6 at one time since a few are part time) and the ratio is usually 3:1, but sometimes even 2:1. That was something else about her daycare that I really liked.

I really hope you find an alternate childcare situation that is better suited for you guys. It is NOT easy. Every working mom I spoke with before I had L told me the most stressful thing after having their baby was not the sleep deprivation or even the nursing, but dealing with the childcare situation!
 

blacksand

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Maybe I'm weird, but I love to see men as early childhood teachers and daycare providers! I would be much more concerned about the fact that it is an in-home daycare than about the fact that the primary caretaker is male. Don't get me wrong, in-home daycare can be wonderful, but you just really need to research the home, the caretakers, who else might be coming around during the day, the activities, and everything else. My BIL's brother (husband's sister's husband's brother, if you want) had his son in a really wonderful in-home daycare that they loved, but one day, the caretaker's adult son came over. He had blood on his shirt (and a gun in his car). The police came and arrested him several minutes later. Fortunately, the kids were too young to really know what was happening, but it was a traumatic experience nonetheless. They were really sad to pull him out of that daycare, because they loved the home and the woman who ran it, but obviously, they didn't want their child exposed to that sort of thing. Of course you would be doing your research in any daycare situation, but I think with a traditional daycare institution, there are many more parent reviews available, you can observe classes, and, in general, there is more transparency. Of course there are good and bad points everywhere. The right in-home daycare can absolutely be a wonderful, safe, nurturing environment.

I am student teaching in Pre-K (getting certified after many years teaching private nursery school), and there are exactly two male educators in our whole entire school. One is a Kindergarten teacher, and he is amazing. All the children (girls included) just flock to him when we go out on the playground, because they so rarely see male role models in school. The other is a physical therapist who does push-in therapy for our class (I teach students with special needs). Again, the kids absolutely light up when he arrives. He is so upbeat and positive with them, and they seem so much more confident in their skills when he encourages them. There is a whole different type of energy in the classroom when he is around. I wish more men would get into early childhood education and child care. I think it is wonderful for the kids when they do.
 

MuffDog

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My son is also in a licensed daycare facility. He is one of ten infants (though he is almost ready for the toddler room now) and there are 4 caregivers at any time.

He has been bitten 2 times (same kid), fallen in the playground when no one noticed and had pink eye (twice), roseola, hand foot and mouth and has had a green runny nose for 3 months.

It is frustrating. No doubt. I wish he didn't get sick as often, for sure. But I do love that there are multiple people there so that if one is getting a new diaper, there are 3 ppl watching the rest of them. I am also never afraid that he is being abused or neglected (too frequently, anyway) because all 4 of the caregivers would have to be in on it. Yes, I'm a worry wart.

I also like that if there is a caregiver who is sick, they have back ups trained and ready.

I honestly think bites and illness are part of the package with daycare. If my little guy was at a home daycare with just one caregiver, the chances of a bite or a fall are even higher.

But honestly, if you have a *feeling* that B is not getting the level of care that makes you comfortable, you should absolutely start looking elsewhere. Mama knows best when it comes to that.

Good luck!
 

amc80

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Hi all! We went to check it out on Friday. We sat down and talked with them and got a bit of a their background. They used to do emergency foster care (so immediate placements before the kids are sent to a more permanent situation) and the wife was a kindergarten teacher. They explained how they run everything and the type of activities they do. The husband likes to be very hands on with his teaching, such as going on "nature walks" in the back yard and looking at different plants and such. Meals are all prepared by him and are healthy and well rounded. The place is very safe and secure (as it must be to be licensed with the county). They have pack n plays set up in each bed room, so the kids all sleep separately (and he has a monitor for each room). All in all it went very well. When DH walked to the care I made him give his opinion first and he said he loved it. He is a great judge of character so that says a lot. We are going to give notice at our current day care today and will start him at the new place when we get back from our cruise. Thanks again for all of the input!
 

jfo

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amc, that's great news! I'm glad that you guys had a good experience there and you feel comfortable about making the switch! Let us know how it all goes when he gets started :)
 

amc80

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Hi all! I wanted to update this thread. B has been at the new day care for a few weeks now. We all love it and are so happy we switched. At his old day care he would often cry when I would drop him off. Now, he just walks to the care giver (the guy), who picks him up, then B smiles and waves bye bye to me. Such a difference. Also, he consistently takes at least a two hour nap which is what he needs. As a result (well, this and that his tooth finally popped through), he's been sleeping all night. He seems much less tired in general. We are really happy with the move and the flexibility that a home day care offers. As an added bonus, we only had to pay for three days the week of Thanksgiving :)
 

packrat

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That's wonderful-and such a relief for mom and dad I'm sure!
 

junebug17

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Amc, I didn't comment in this thread because I didn't have anything constructive to say, but I've been reading along and I'm really glad your little guy is doing so well at his new daycare! A happy kid means a happy mama! :appl:
 

nottospec

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My kids are older(11,14,19) but we went through the child care route.

Just wanted to comment that all my boys had their share of snuffles, viral infections, gastro etc but are very robust and healthy now. They very rarely have a day off school and I attribute it to great immunity established early! The illness is frustrating but it does plateau, I promise!!!
 
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