Daughter''s Friend''s Panic Attack.. Should I Get Involved?

[soocool]

There was an earlier thread about panic attacks and I mentioned that my daughter''s best friend has panic disorder according to her mom. Well, my daughter''s girl friend called the house today around noontime crying hysterically and pleading for me to come and get her. She pleaded with me to let her stay at my house (my daughter is in school, the friend at home). It took me almost 10 minutes to get her to calm down. ( I used some of Whitby''s suggestions!). I asked her where she was and she said she was in the bathroom and I asked if her mom was there and she said she was downstairs. Finally after she calmed I spoke with her mother and her mother treated it with not much concern. I did not want to pry and her mother wasn''t volunteering as to what is going on. But the girl has been seeing her psychiatrist for nearly a year now and according to the mom she has these attacks a few times each day and she says they last about 20 minutes.

After a severe panic attack in school she is being homeschooled for 30 days.

At first I thought something happened to her mom and then feared that she might do something to herself and her mom doesn''t want to hand out her cell phone number so I couln''t call her. I was panicking myself at that point and thought if I couldn''t get her to calm down I would call 911. I am beginning to wonder if it is something other than panic attacks that this girl is having. Yesterday she called my daughter and emailed her after sending a letter and an email a short time ago stating she doesn''t want to haver any social contact with her friends.

My question should I get involved or should I just stay out of it? Or at what point should I get involved?

 

[luckystar112]

Honestly soocool, that behavior is bizarre and I'm sure is due to more than just panic attacks. When I first read in the other thread that the girl was staying home away from friends and school for thirty days I figured something else was going on there. That isn't normal....there is something up with this girl, whether it is a psychological disorder or something going on at home (perhaps a fight with her mother that preceeded the call?). At first I thought it sounded like Agoraphobia but it don't know why her mother would be enabling her by allowing her to lose all social contact with her friends.

I'm not sure what to make of the situation, but one thing for certain is that the girl appears to be reaching out to YOU despite the fact that her own mother is downstairs. I'm not sure what you can do NOW, but I would absolutely get involved if she does it again. Say you'll be right there and call an officer to meet you. This sounds like something that should be on record.

Perhaps I'm overreacting, but I just think that sounds so bizarre. Maybe someone else will have a suggestion of what you can do today to help.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Eh, I have no idea about much of that other than the psychiatrist she has sure isn't doing the job!

If she's on medication, it's not working. If she's on anti-anxiety drugs like Xanax or Valium, she is having rebound anxiety from when the drugs wear off (past their half-life).

As you know, she's not your daughter and is a minor. How much can you have say it how this is handled?

If you think the daughter is in serious danger, it's not your job to take over. Legally you have no say and you're not her guardian. If this continues, CPS should be called in.

 

[megumic]

I think sometimes the harder thing to do is usually the right thing to do. If it happens again, I''d definitely let the other mother know you''re concerned as her daughter has reached out to YOU and that you know it''s none of your business, but since you''re now involved I think you need to know if the girl is getting the professional help she needs. Plus, being concerned is something we do out of the goodness of our hearts; getting into someone''s business is different, and as a mother, hopefully she can understand that you intend nothing but good.

I don''t have any kids, but I do know that a parent is not always a kids best advocate, esp. if the parent needs help too. Sure, kids can be dramatic, I was one of the more dramatic kids. But I also know, looking back, that many times my parents weren''t paying attention to my needs as closely as they should have been. G-d forbid something terrible should happen to your daughter''s friend because her parents are neglectful or she want''s receiving the appropriate care.

If you speak up, the worst that will happen is this mother is furious with you. I don''t think that''s such a bad consequence if it means ensuring your daughter''s friend was safe and receiving treatment. I would think of the young girl first as a primary concern, and the parental reaction as secondary.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[megumic]

I think sometimes the harder thing to do is usually the right thing to do. If it happens again, I''d definitely let the other mother know you''re concerned as her daughter has reached out to YOU and that you know it''s none of your business, but since you''re now involved I think you need to know if the girl is getting the professional help she needs. Plus, being concerned is something we do out of the goodness of our hearts; getting into someone''s business is different, and as a mother, hopefully she can understand that you intend nothing but good.

I don''t have any kids, but I do know that a parent is not always a kids best advocate, esp. if the parent needs help too. Sure, kids can be dramatic, I was one of the more dramatic kids. But I also know, looking back, that many times my parents weren''t paying attention to my needs as closely as they should have been. G-d forbid something terrible should happen to your daughter''s friend because her parents are neglectful or she want''s receiving the appropriate care.

If you speak up, the worst that will happen is this mother is furious with you. I don''t think that''s such a bad consequence if it means ensuring your daughter''s friend was safe and receiving treatment. I would think of the young girl first as a primary concern, and the parental reaction as secondary.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[purrfectpear]

I know this.

My child comes first. I would cut off contact with this girl. I''m sorry but since you can''t control her meds, or her behavior, I would NOT be letting my child be a potential victim is something goes seriously wrong. She could be psychotic, suicidal, being abused, agoraphobic, or just an out of control brat...who knows? That''s the point. You don''t know and you can''t know, so I would get my child out of the sphere of influence.

Hard nosed, but realistic. I''ll risk playing Mother Theresa with my own self, but not my child''s life.

 

[AGBF]

How old is your daughter and how old is her friend? For how long have they known each other and how well? Do you know this girl well? I''d like to know as much more as you can tell me.

Deb

 

[soocool]

Date: 5/7/2009 5:26:27 PM
Author: AGBF




How old is your daughter and how old is her friend? For how long have they known each other and how well? Do you know this girl well? I''d like to know as much more as you can tell me.

Deb

My daughter is 16 and her friend will be 16 this summer. They met when they were 11 (played soccer one season) but went to different elementary schools and then met up again in 7th grade (middle school) and were inseparable that whole year. They almost look like twins and everyone always ask if they are sisters. In 8th grade they didn''t see each other much in school because they were on different teams and only saw each other during some lunch periods and during school club meetings. They do not see each other in high school, because her friend takes all academic classes and my daughter takes all honors. They are in one club togther, but the friend rarely goes to the meetings.

Last summer they volunteered together and that is when my daughter and I began to sense that something was wrong. everytime my daughter would ask her to come over or go out, the friend kept saying that she was terribly busy, she had a million things to do. Anytime my daughter would call, her mother said she wasn''t home and the friend would never call back. I only later found out from the mother that the girl did not want to speak with anyone. y daughter and her only got together when it was convenient for the friend. There were a couple of school functions that they attended togther this past year, but when the friend planned a Halloween party she canceled it last minute. In fact many of the things she planned with her friends she canceled last minute.

Her mother says she just goes up to her room after school. She sends emails to her friends, but only about things she has read on the computer and you-tube stuff (innocuous stuff). She never responds to the "How are you doing, how''s school" emails my daughter sends her. She says she gets up at 5 am because she doesn''t want to be late for school and the bus picks her up at 7 am.

The girl has a special pass in school so she can leave class 5 minutes earlier to go to her locker so she can avoid the crowds in the halls. Many times my daughter would see her, she would be crying or in the nurse''s office. The final straw was just before spring break. The girl has a severe panic attck in the classroom and the teacher could not get her to calm down. She said that the teacher was screaming at her. That is when they brought in her mom, her psychiatrist, the principal, teacher, and school counselor and decided that the girl should be homeschooled for 30 days. Two weeks ago the girl had a "beading" party and a week later sent her friends an email telling them she wasn''t feeling well and thought it would help her recovery if no one would contact her by phone or email. She also sent a letter to each friend just in case they didn''t read the email.

Another interesting thing, she is not allowed to watch anything other than "G" rated movies. Her parents have a strict dress code (I let my daughter pick out the clothes she would like to buy, but I have to give my final approval. So my daughter does not wear anything inappropriate for her age). Anytime the girls get togther her mom calls it a "playdate" and always has something planned for them to do, like a craft. I myself just let them hang and do whatever girls do at that age, talk about boys, do facials, do each others hair, etc. The mom won''t let them walk around the mall by themselves; she is always a few steps behind. I hang out at the food court or go to the stores I like and we meet at a certain time. Go to let them have fun on their own. My daughter has a cell phone and she does not abuse minutes and the friend has a cell phone, but the friend can only use the phone for emergencies or to call her mother.

The friend has a younger brother who has Asperbergers and my daughter says that she feels like all the attention is given to the brother.

That''s about it.

 

[iheartscience]

What a terrible situation. It sounds like she definitely has agoraphobia and obviously a panic disorder. If she continues to call you I would at least speak to the school psychiatrist/counselor and tell him/her what''s been going on. I don''t think there''s much that you can do other than that.

I bet her mother''s overprotectiveness has had a lot to do with her issues. I hope she improves-with the right medication and a good psychiatrist she should be doing much better!

 

[luckystar112]

Wow. At her age it could really be anything but it does sound like she has a severe case of Social Anxiety, judging by the fact that she is allowed to go to her locker first/etc.
It could also be that she is embarrassed by her panic attack in class. A couple of years ago, in COLLEGE, I had a panic attack and lost it in front of my teacher...crying and everything. It was humiliating. I wonder if that is part of the reason why she won''t even talk to her friends.

Of the two moms, you definitely sound like the more "normal" of the two. Perhaps she is acting out because a lot of her mother''s attention is going to the son? Or because her mother appears to be so strict (and just a tad looney...playdates?)

I hope she gets the help she needs. It''s clear she doesn''t think she is getting it from her own family. Sadly, I don''t think there is anything you can do though.

 

[lyra]

Well, your original question was should you get involved. I say definitely not. I feel very sorry for her and her family, and understand your daughter''s confusion too, but I can''t see any positives coming out of this for you and your daughter. You can''t really do anything anyway. And who can judge the mother? If my child was going through this and the psychiatrist was doing all they could, and whatnot, heck yes I''d be overprotective of her all the time, not knowing what she was going to do next. Poor woman is probably overwhelmed and may be doing exactly what the psychiatrist has counselled her to do for all we know. Plus she has another chiild with major issues to worry about.

My main concern for your daughter in this case is her thinking she can somehow help, when she can''t. Worst case scenario (this happened to my niece at 16), the friend does attempt or is successful at suicide and your daughter ends up feeling partly responsible. That''s way too heavy a burden. My niece ended up having to change schools when her friend committed suicide, because the kids actually told her she was to blame, how awful!

Anyway, good luck with this. It''s a terrible situation to be in, but one where the professionals and parents need to be held responsible.

 

[asscherisme]

Date: 5/7/2009 7:22:11 PM
Author: soocool

Date: 5/7/2009 5:26:27 PM
Author: AGBF




How old is your daughter and how old is her friend? For how long have they known each other and how well? Do you know this girl well? I'd like to know as much more as you can tell me.

Deb

My daughter is 16 and her friend will be 16 this summer. They met when they were 11 (played soccer one season) but went to different elementary schools and then met up again in 7th grade (middle school) and were inseparable that whole year. They almost look like twins and everyone always ask if they are sisters. In 8th grade they didn't see each other much in school because they were on different teams and only saw each other during some lunch periods and during school club meetings. They do not see each other in high school, because her friend takes all academic classes and my daughter takes all honors. They are in one club togther, but the friend rarely goes to the meetings.

Last summer they volunteered together and that is when my daughter and I began to sense that something was wrong. everytime my daughter would ask her to come over or go out, the friend kept saying that she was terribly busy, she had a million things to do. Anytime my daughter would call, her mother said she wasn't home and the friend would never call back. I only later found out from the mother that the girl did not want to speak with anyone. y daughter and her only got together when it was convenient for the friend. There were a couple of school functions that they attended togther this past year, but when the friend planned a Halloween party she canceled it last minute. In fact many of the things she planned with her friends she canceled last minute.

Her mother says she just goes up to her room after school. She sends emails to her friends, but only about things she has read on the computer and you-tube stuff (innocuous stuff). She never responds to the 'How are you doing, how's school' emails my daughter sends her. She says she gets up at 5 am because she doesn't want to be late for school and the bus picks her up at 7 am.

The girl has a special pass in school so she can leave class 5 minutes earlier to go to her locker so she can avoid the crowds in the halls. Many times my daughter would see her, she would be crying or in the nurse's office. The final straw was just before spring break. The girl has a severe panic attck in the classroom and the teacher could not get her to calm down. She said that the teacher was screaming at her. That is when they brought in her mom, her psychiatrist, the principal, teacher, and school counselor and decided that the girl should be homeschooled for 30 days. Two weeks ago the girl had a 'beading' party and a week later sent her friends an email telling them she wasn't feeling well and thought it would help her recovery if no one would contact her by phone or email. She also sent a letter to each friend just in case they didn't read the email.

Another interesting thing, she is not allowed to watch anything other than 'G' rated movies. Her parents have a strict dress code (I let my daughter pick out the clothes she would like to buy, but I have to give my final approval. So my daughter does not wear anything inappropriate for her age). Anytime the girls get togther her mom calls it a 'playdate' and always has something planned for them to do, like a craft. I myself just let them hang and do whatever girls do at that age, talk about boys, do facials, do each others hair, etc. The mom won't let them walk around the mall by themselves; she is always a few steps behind. I hang out at the food court or go to the stores I like and we meet at a certain time. Go to let them have fun on their own. My daughter has a cell phone and she does not abuse minutes and the friend has a cell phone, but the friend can only use the phone for emergencies or to call her mother.

The friend has a younger brother who has Asperbergers and my daughter says that she feels like all the attention is given to the brother.

That's about it.

I don't know how to highlight or I would highlight that last paragraph about "G" movies and "playdates" complete with crafts at 16. My red flag radar was going high reading this but when I read about Aspergers, my red flag went crazy. I know a LOT about aspergers and autism in general. I have children affected by aspergers as well as more traditional autism. And with aspergers often comes anxiety, OCD, and a host of other disorders. And very often aspergers iand autism is inherited and there are other issues in the family. In my case, my kids got it from my ex husband.

A HUGE sign of aspergers is social phobia or inappropriate behavior, not reading social cues, not understanding and not having the ability to read people, situations, etc.

It sounds to me like her MOTHER has some sort of disorder. And it sounds like the daughter does as well for sure. What she has goes way beyond feeling negelcted due to her brother having aspergers.

The fact that at age 16, she is trailing her daughter, only allowing "G" movies, preparing crafts for playdates? That is so controlling and now allowing her daughter to grow up. Its scary controlling.

I consider myself a very protective mom and I allow my 13 year old son who has aspergers to walk to his friends home or to ride his bike to a friends house. I allow him to see PG movies and even select PG 13 movies (like harry potter for example or Wolverine last weekend). How on earth are kids going to ever grow up and learn to make smart choices if we don't selectively allow them opportunities to be independent?

The term "playdate" for a 16 year old is really weird. As is planning an acitivty. When my 9 year old daughter has a friend over I might suggest certain things to do if they get bored and make sure I'm close by if they need me, but then again they are NINE not 16. When my 13 year old son has a friend over, I pretty much let them do whatever and am in the house.

Could some of the anxiety the poor girl has come from feeling so controlled? Is the girl afraid of her mother? Might be and thats why she is calling you?

I would not get involved in terms of coming directly between the girl and her mother per se but I would do something.

Is the mother someone you can talk to? Is she odd in other ways too? Letting the girl cut off social contacts is scary. It really is. Seems like thats the worst thing for her.

If you do suspect abuse, could you call the school psychologist and ask they not use your name? I think they are required to report suspected cases of abuse, then it could come from the school rather than you?

Part of me would not want to get involved. But I was an abused child so the other part feels like if you think she is in an abusive situation you MUST help but not in a way that would get your daughter involved.

I personally would not let my daughter go to her home anymore with that many red flags. In fact, I would tell my daughter to cool it with the girl. But I would still call the school psyc or social worker to tell them what happened and put it in their hands.

You are a caring person to be concerned about this girl.

 

[Loves Vintage]

It could also be that the mother has essentially taught her daugther to be anxious. The mother does not let her daughter go off with her friends at the mall because the mother is worried that something will happen to her. The mother only lets her daughter watch G movies because she is concerned about the potential ill-effects of PG movies. The mother is not permitting her to grow up, make decisions on her own, etc. because she fears what will happen if she does.

The end result is that the daughter cannot make any decisions, worries about everything, does not have the skills for dealing with difficult situations, or situations that perhaps she alone perceives as difficult, and she suffers from this tremendous anxiety.

I hope she is receiving appropriate psychiatric and psychological treatment and that her situation improves. I would probably try to intervene on her behalf, but it seems that a lot of her problems stem from her mother''s behavior and there''s no way you or anyone but her can change that.

 

[Elmorton]

Date: 5/7/2009 7:51:34 PM
Author: thing2of2
What a terrible situation. It sounds like she definitely has agoraphobia and obviously a panic disorder. If she continues to call you I would at least speak to the school psychiatrist/counselor and tell him/her what''s been going on. I don''t think there''s much that you can do other than that.

I bet her mother''s overprotectiveness has had a lot to do with her issues. I hope she improves-with the right medication and a good psychiatrist she should be doing much better!

Hmm, my guess was actually going to be a form of bipolar. The "panic attack" began because she thought her teacher was yelling at her sounds bipolar or even schizophrenia- that doesn''t really seem like a panic attack but rather some sort of manic or paranoid episode. Regardless, my BA is psych isn''t going to be able to diagnose her, and I agree that it sounds like her treatment isn''t currently working (though some meds DO take time to work, so waiting a few weeks might be good before making judgments).

I guess my first response is that it sounds like your daughter is well-rounded and open with you, but regardless I''d find some people that she can lean on for support with this friend (the counselor, a teacher, etc) who IS in a position to step in if things escalate. I disagree with PP in that I wouldn''t forbid your daughter to be friends with her - people with mental illness NEED friends, and no doubt, your daughter will meet people in college and in life like her current friend. Knowing what to do with a person like this is a pretty important learning experience, and it''s best to have support through it.

If you''re being drawn in, I think that you''re more than welcome to address the issue with the mother. Explain that this behavior is frightening to you, and a normal response to it would be to call CPS. Say that because you know the family, you wanted to discuss it with the parent first, and you''d like to know what your course of action should be, since you are not comfortable ignoring the behavior. If the mother tells you to stay out, or to do nothing, I think that the next time it occurs, you need to call CPS. Ignoring a severe episode is pretty abusive in my book.

 

[NovemberBride]

If you suspect child abuse, call the school or CPS. If you don''t suspect that, then it''s really just a case of you disagreeing with the mother''s parenting style and in that case, you need to stay out of it.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 5/8/2009 3:44:22 PM
Author: Elmorton

Date: 5/7/2009 7:51:34 PM

Author: thing2of2

What a terrible situation. It sounds like she definitely has agoraphobia and obviously a panic disorder. If she continues to call you I would at least speak to the school psychiatrist/counselor and tell him/her what''s been going on. I don''t think there''s much that you can do other than that.

I bet her mother''s overprotectiveness has had a lot to do with her issues. I hope she improves-with the right medication and a good psychiatrist she should be doing much better!

Hmm, my guess was actually going to be a form of bipolar. The ''panic attack'' began because she thought her teacher was yelling at her sounds bipolar or even schizophrenia- that doesn''t really seem like a panic attack but rather some sort of manic or paranoid episode. Regardless, my BA is psych isn''t going to be able to diagnose her, and I agree that it sounds like her treatment isn''t currently working (though some meds DO take time to work, so waiting a few weeks might be good before making judgments).

I think she''s definitely agoraphobic/has social anxiety based on the fact that she is let out of class early to avoid the crowds, rarely seems to have social interaction, etc. Also, the frequent panic attacks point to a panic disorder. I''m also a psych major and I have a lot of firsthand experience with panic disorders, agoraphobia, etc.

I am not super familiar with bipolar disorder, but as far as I know the symptoms soocool is describing match up pretty perfectly with panic disorder and agoraphobia. (Plus the girl has apparently been diagnosed with a panic disorder.)

Anywho, it''s neither here nor there since we don''t know the girl, but I hope she gets the appropriate help!

 

[soocool]

Well no phone calls from the girl today and I certainly don''t want to tell the parents how they should be raising their daughter. I know it is none of my business, but I think the mom should have at least called the moms of the girls who are closest to her daughter to explain the situation to us instead of having the girl send cryptic emails and letters stating that she has not been feeling the best lately and she does not want to have any social contact with her friends.

Funny thing is the mom never told me her daughter had panic disorder. I asked her if this is what she had and she said yes. All the mom ever told me was that the daughter was seeing someone and discussing her feelings. When my daughter had the anxiety problem a few months ago, I called to let her know what was going on. (We now believe my daughter''s anxiety was brought on by the heavy courseload she has and we reviewed her course selections for next year and tuned it down a little. My daughter loves challenges, but sometimes you have to know when enough is enough. But I digress)

I thought the mother knew me and trusted me enough to let me know what was going on so that my daughter wasn''t so confused as to what was going on.So yesterday the friend emails my daughter about taking a summer art camp with her and then called her 5 minutes after sending her the email. So much for the No social contact. My daughter politely told her that her plate is full this summer with volunteering at a Senior Home ( she is a companion to 1 or 2 residents and adopts them as her grandma & grandpa) and she will be teaching beginner piano as well as participating in the archery league. But she did let her friend know that she would love to get togther when they have some free time.

The parents are very nice and I am sure they would not do anything to hurt their daughter. The school counselor is well aware of the situation and does check in with them every week. The only major traumatic event this girl experienced was the loss of a friend at age 12 to leukemia. She visited her up to the end. After the girl diied, the mother did not want to send her to grief counselling, but I think now she regrets it.

I guess my biggest fear is that the girl may do something to hurt herself in desperation, but I am not a professional and I truly do not know when I should be able to sense if something bad may occur. And I certainly don''t want my daughter to be there if she ever does. I always ask my daughter to let me know if her friend ever talks about hurting herself, etc. The only thing my daughter says is that the friend can''t wait until she is 18 to leave home. Maybe it''s just rough for her being a teenager. I thanks God that my daughter is not like this (mind you she does have her days, but so far the teen years have been good to all of us)

 

[purrfectpear]

Based on nothing more than her age, I am wondering about the possibility of schizophrenia (as this is the time it often starts to manifest)?

I don''t know any school system that would just say to parents "sure take her out of school for a month or so" over a "syndrome", but I could be wrong. I just think there might be a lot more to this girl''s illness than the mom is admitting.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I personally think the asperger''s/autism link is something that probably is having an effect on her. Asscherisme already pointed out that social anxiety, OCD, etc. are common in kids like this. But as someone else said, if she is still having frequent panic attacks, they need to head back to the dr. because the meds are not working.