Danish Embassy in Lebanon Burned

[AGBF]

The protests by Muslims over the depiction of Mohammed in political cartoons published in certain European countries continues. Today the Danish Embassy in Lebanon was burned. The staff had been evacuated days before in anticipation of protests. So far US newspapers have felt it to be unnecessary to reproduce the images in order to cover the story.

Danish Embassy Burned

 

[AGBF]

The Danish and Norwegian Embassies in Syria were burned yesterday.

"Thousands of Syrians enraged by caricatures of Islam's revered prophet torched the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus on Saturday — the most violent in days of furious protests by Muslims in Asia, Europe and the Middle East.

In Gaza, Palestinians marched through the streets, storming European buildings and burning German and Danish flags. Protesters smashed the windows of the German cultural center and threw stones at the European Commission building, the police said.

Iraqis rallying by the hundreds demanded an apology from the European Union, and the leader of the Palestinian group Hamas called the cartoons "an unforgivable insult" that merited punishment by death.

Pakistan summoned the envoys of nine Western nations in protest, and Europeans took to the streets in Denmark and Britain.

At the heart of the protest: 12 caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad first published in Denmark's Jyllands-Posten in September and reprinted in European media in the past week. One depicted the prophet wearing a turban shaped as a bomb with a burning fuse. The paper said it had asked cartoonists to draw the pictures because the media was practicing self-censorship when it came to Muslim issues. The drawings touched a nerve in part because Islamic law is interpreted to forbid depictions of Muhammad."

Embassies in Syria Burned

 

[AGBF]

The violence against European embassies appears to be putting the United States in a difficult position. The Bush administration, while defending freedom of speech, had denounced the cartoons in an attempt to regain respect in the Muslim world during the war in Iraq. As the violence increases, Mr. Bush has been forced to denounce the violent Muslim response as well. In many countries throughout the Middle East the press routinely caricaturizes Jews in ways designed to inflame public opinion against them.

"The Muslim world erupted in anger on Friday over caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad published in Europe while the Bush administration offered the protesters support, saying of the cartoons, 'We find them offensive, and we certainly understand why Muslims would find these images offensive.'

Streets in the Palestinian regions and in Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia and Malaysia were filled with demonstrators calling for boycotts of European goods and burning the flag of Denmark, where the cartoons first appeared.

While a huge rally in the Gaza Strip was peaceful — and many leaders warned against violence — some of the oratory was not.

'We will not accept less than severing the heads of those responsible,' one preacher at Al Omari mosque in Gaza told worshipers during Friday Prayer, according to Reuters. Other demonstrators called for amputating the hands of the cartoonists who drew the pictures.

Many Muslims consider it blasphemy to print any image of Muhammad, the founder of Islam, let alone a cartoon that ridicules him.

The set of a dozen cartoons has outraged Muslims as being provocative and anti-Muslim, while many Europeans have defended their publication under the right to free speech.

One cartoon depicts Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb. Another shows him at the gates of heaven, arms raised, saying to men who seem to be suicide bombers, 'Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins.' A third has devil's horns emerging from his turban. A fourth shows two women who are entirely veiled, with only their eyes showing, and the prophet standing between them with a strip of black cloth covering his eyes, preventing him from seeing.

Since being published in Denmark in September, they have been reprinted in Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland and Hungary, as well as in Jordan. They are also on the Internet. Editors at the papers in France and Jordan were fired.

The United States has been trying to improve its image in the Arab world, badly damaged by the Iraq war and American support for Israel.

The State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, reading the government's statement on the controversy, said, 'Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images,' which are routinely published in the Arab press, 'as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.'"

article

 

[perry]

There is a disconnect here.

The images were published in September. I have not seen them, but I do not doubt that they are offensive to some.

One of the problems that I see...

An open democratic based societies functions because we are tolerent of offense. Many things pass by us all the time that are offensive to us as people or our religion. Yet we tolerate that in the interest of the benifits of free speach.

Some muslims feel that the only response to offense is to destroy and kill (and seveal people have been killed for making movies - or are in hidinig under death threat for writing a book).

At the same time many papers and websites from other parts of the world (and some muslim parts as well) publish similar cattoons that are offensive to other religions and countries - in this case specifically Jewdahism and America.

To me that is a big disconnect.

Why are these people not demonstrating, destroying, and killing people in their own coutries who publish offensive materials to others?


The other issue is the timelyness of the protest. It seems to me that people have taken months to build this issue up to generate this protest. It does not seem "real." It would have made far more sense (if it makes much sense at all) if the protest had occured just after publication.

I think that people who orchastrated these demonstrations have done their part of the world - and their people a disservice. You never win by creating hate and distrust.

Perry

 

[strmrdr]

I admire the protest.
People will think twice before doing it again.
I think Christians should do the same.
Im tired of having my faith trampled on.

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/5/2006 12:52:46 PM
Author: strmrdr
I admire the protest.

People will think twice before doing it again.

I think Christians should do the same.

Im tired of having my faith trampled on.

I have to pride myself on really getting to know you, Storm. I would have called this as your stance in advance had I been asked to do so!


Deb

 

[rodentman]

It''s Ok for them to denounce Israel and bomb the Jews, but they object to some cartoons?

If they don''t like the cartoons, let them read some other paper.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/5/2006 12:52:46 PM
Author: strmrdr
I admire the protest.
People will think twice before doing it again.
I think Christians should do the same.
Im tired of having my faith trampled on.

Which part of the protest do you admire - the burning of an embassy - the calling for the cartoonist heads cut off or the general VIOLENCE of the protest?

Me thinks art is immitating life.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 11:36:18 AM
Author: fire&ice

Date: 2/5/2006 12:52:46 PM

Author: strmrdr

I admire the protest.

People will think twice before doing it again.

I think Christians should do the same.

Im tired of having my faith trampled on.

Which part of the protest do you admire - the burning of an embassy - the calling for the cartoonist heads cut off or the general VIOLENCE of the protest?


Me thinks art is immitating life.

The passion.
I didnt say I agreed with every act of the protest and some of them I dont.

You do have to say that burning the embassy got there attention didnt it?
As far as I heard and I could be wrong no one was hurt so it is kind of fitting.

 

[rainbowtrout]

OK...

First of all, the "cartoon" is a BIG DEAL to these people. That does not mean I think that they had any right whatsoever to engage in violence. However, an analogus American situation might be if a newspaper published a cartoon of a black man being beaten to death and called the n** word. I''m not overstating here--the prohibition against depicting Muhammed is that strong.

However, some Muslims seem to never learn the power of peaceful protest. Dr. King made his point without burning buildings, smtdr. If even one civilian was harmed in the burning of that building it would have been against the sacred rules of jihad in any case, so they are, pardon the pun, playing with religious fire. This is why all terrorists who kill innocents are not "good" Muslims in many believers views.

Having studied Islam at some length, although I am by no means an expert, I would put forth that it has in fact been a religion of conquest and conversion throughout its history. Unlike Christianity, Islam has never historically been a religion of peace. Muhammed swept out from Medina after the hijrah and proceeded to conquer a nice chunk of the known world... Therefore there is some historical and idealogical basis for the violence coming out of the middle east (and I didn''t even BEGIN to get into colonialism and Palestine!). OTHO, many Arabs leaders will not take responsibility for their own problems and blame everything on 2 things: the Jews and the West.

Christiantiy, although originally a religion of pacificsm, underwent a similar idealogical transformation in the Middle Ages, wherein an Old Testament ethos was grafted onto the message of Christ. Hence, the Crusades became justifiable and Christ''s message became rapidly soaked with innocent blood. So, smtdr, I suppose if you want to start burning buildings and threatening to kill people you have some precident in your religion''s history. Maybe after that you should start on killing the unbelievers?

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/6/2006 2:38:04 PM
Author: strmrdr
As far as I heard and I could be wrong no one was hurt so it is kind of fitting.

Well, now you have heard of someone being hurt. Four people are dead in Afghanistan, and more are hurt. If the violence continues, I assume more people will also soon be hurt and dead.

"Demonstrations against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad by newspapers in Europe spread across Asia and the Middle East today, turning violent in Afghanistan, where at least four protesters were killed and over a dozen police officers and protesters injured."

Protests Turn Deadly


Deborah

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 3:49:03 PM
Author: AGBF

Date: 2/6/2006 2:38:04 PM

Author: strmrdr

As far as I heard and I could be wrong no one was hurt so it is kind of fitting.

Well, now you have heard of someone being hurt. Four people are dead in Afghanistan, and more are hurt. If the violence continues, I assume more people will also soon be hurt and dead.


''Demonstrations against the publication of cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad by newspapers in Europe spread across Asia and the Middle East today, turning violent in Afghanistan, where at least four protesters were killed and over a dozen police officers and protesters injured.''


Protests Turn Deadly



Deborah

now now deb I specificaly was talking about burning the building so dont go putting words in my mouth please :}

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 3:22:25 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
Maybe after that you should start on killing the unbelievers?

No, because they have the right to be non-believers.
I have the right to my religion and the right to not have it insulted.
They have the same right.
Sometimes you have to do some not so nice things to keep or get your rights.
You talk of peaceful changes in America but you do not mention the riots and the violence on both sides.
Take off the rose colored glasses.

The papers published images that they knew would set off a backlash and then say hey its only cartoons.
You make the connection to white on black historical racism in America and I think you know that you hit the nail on the head with what is going on over there.

 

[widget]

Author: strmrdr

now now deb I specificaly was talking about burning the building so dont go putting words in my mouth please :}

So Storm...you think burning an embassy is fitting? Even when no government published the offensive cartoons...the free press did? My goodness.

widget

 

[rainbowtrout]

stmdr: there were riots and violence on both sides, and sometimes one does have to protect one's rights by any means necessary, but it is not a decision to come to lightly at all. I think my core point was that while there was violence in the civil rights movement, there was an idealogoy and a hope of peaceful protest which did in fact achieve good ends.

I think if you resort to terrorism then this simply breeds more violence.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 4:07:05 PM
Author: widget

Author: strmrdr


now now deb I specificaly was talking about burning the building so dont go putting words in my mouth please :}

So Storm...you think burning an embassy is fitting? Even when no government published the offensive cartoons...the free press did? My goodness.

widget

in a symbolic way yes.
If someone had been killed then it would have been a different story and id call for hunting the murderers down.

 

[colormyworld]

Storm says, Ihave the right to my relgion and the right to not have it insulted.
They have the same right.
Sometimes you have to do some not so nice things to keep or get your rights.
Storm you are right in that you and everyone of us has our right to practice our relgion in so far as not infringing on anothers rights.
As for not having your relgion insulted you have the right to not listen,or take civil action to correct any injustices. Taking revenge is not accceptable in a civilized society.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 4:35:03 PM
Author: colormyworld
Storm says, Ihave the right to my relgion and the right to not have it insulted.

They have the same right.

Sometimes you have to do some not so nice things to keep or get your rights.

Storm you are right in that you and everyone of us has our right to practice our relgion in so far as not infringing on anothers rights.

As for not having your relgion insulted you have the right to not listen,or take civil action to correct any injustices. Taking revenge is not accceptable in a civilized society.

What if the insulting of your religion becomes the accepted norm in society?
What then?

 

[rainbowtrout]

If it is acceptable to insult your religion in society, the way to make people accept and RESPECT your religion is not to make them fear it. The reason the cartoon was published is bc the Danes are scared to death of the Islamic population and the magazine wanted to make the point that no matter if it is offensive it does not deserve death.

This event follows in the wake of the filmaker who was killed by a fundamentalist Muslim in the country last year for making a documentary about the oppression of Muslim women.


There is a saying, "Wherever they burn books, one day they will burn people." It is a slippery slope, stmdr. Perhaps we start burning a building. This is how many terrorist campagins begin. I could mention Israel, who bombed the british embassy to make a point when no one was in the building.
What happened later? Hamas learned from this radical Israeli group and took their best techniques to use later against Isreal.

We should strive to be the best examples of our religion that we can. For example, if the Middle Eastern governments put out one SINGLE fatwa on a terrorist, I myself would respect the actions of Islam more.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/6/2006 4:07:05 PM
Author: widget

Author: strmrdr

now now deb I specificaly was talking about burning the building so dont go putting words in my mouth please :}

So Storm...you think burning an embassy is fitting? Even when no government published the offensive cartoons...the free press did? My goodness.

widget

I''m with you.

And, I''m sure the Danes evacuated because there was no threat upon their lives as well.

 

[FireGoddess]

I have to say, I have absolutely no respect for the way in which these protests have been carried out. So somebody hurt your feelings, or offended you (religious beliefs or not). Responding in some sort of equal measure is tolerable, but burning down buildings and killing people? Give me a frigging BREAK. I get offended ALL THE TIME but I don''t go setting people''s houses or cars on fire.

Pathetic.

 

[colormyworld]

Storm what would cause ones relgion to become the object of ridicule? Do you feel yours has become such?
So let me get this straight. You think it is right to destroy anothers property because you feel you've been insulted? Maybe just slapping them around a little bit would be enough. What if it wasn't intentional maybe just keying thier car would be enough. I guess we could bring out our clubs and settle this caveman style!

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/6/2006 5:19:18 PM
Author: colormyworld
Storm what would cause ones relgion to become the object of ridicule? Do you feel yours has become such?
So let me get this straight. You think it is right to destroy anothers property because you feel you''ve been insulted? Maybe just slapping them around a little bit would be enough. What if it wasn''t intentional maybe just keying thier car would be enough. I guess we could bring out our clubs and settle this caveman style!

I think you should re-read my posts more often or ignore them. You don''t seem to grasp my meaning. The mail came through w/ you thinking f&i thought it to be o.k. to destroy property. I suppose you didn''t get my sarcasm. I am not static in my thought.

 

[colormyworld]

f&i read what you blue boxed.

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 2/6/2006 5:37:07 PM
Author: colormyworld
f&i read what you blue boxed.

I know what appeared in my email of the post. You changed your final post to not include me. Doesn''t make the original sentiment go away. At least, I''d own up to it.

 

[colormyworld]

I''m not affraid of fessing up. I did include you to start. Then reread your post a lot closer. At first it was not clear which way you were leaning. When I grasped your intention I changed it. But apperantly you have been upset and for this I am sorry.

 

[colormyworld]

What sentiment are you talking about. I misunderstood your meaning and I corrected it. I''ll not hold it against you for long.

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[strmrdr]

Date: 2/6/2006 5:19:18 PM
Author: colormyworld
Storm what would cause ones relgion to become the object of ridicule? Do you feel yours has become such?

So let me get this straight. You think it is right to destroy anothers property because you feel you''ve been insulted? Maybe just slapping them around a little bit would be enough. What if it wasn''t intentional maybe just keying thier car would be enough. I guess we could bring out our clubs and settle this caveman style!

44mag at 50 paces?

 

[colormyworld]

Yeah that'll solve all your problems The 44/50 solution

 

[AGBF]

Date: 2/6/2006 4:39:38 PM
Author: strmrdr
What if the insulting of your religion becomes the accepted norm in society?

In my opinion, a religious group can live and thrive despite insults. When they are to burned at the stake or sent off to gas chambers, maintaining their existence becomes harder.

Does that mean I would knowingly insult someone else''s religion? No. It is just that in the study of history one finds so much worse done by one religious group to another, that an insult pales in comparison.


Deborah