Cutting Fancy Colors for Beauty & Light Return

[kimikocat]

Hi guys!

Some of you probably remember that I posted a thread a while back about cutting fancy colors -- asking your opinion on whether or not cutters can cut a beautiful fancy colored diamond that has brilliance/fire/great light return as well as great color.

I''ve been in conversation with a vendor who says that they can cut fancies -- and have cut fancies -- to fit these parameters.

Now I am wondering -- how much of a premium would you be willing to pay to purchase a stone that has great color and great cut?

I''ve been working with a vendor who supplies the "conventional" natural fancy colored diamonds -- all yellows -- and his stones look pretty enough.

Wonder what this vendor''s "ideal cut" stones will look like?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 10/22/2008 7:40:52 PM
Author:kimikocat
Hi guys!

Some of you probably remember that I posted a thread a while back about cutting fancy colors -- asking your opinion on whether or not cutters can cut a beautiful fancy colored diamond that has brilliance/fire/great light return as well as great color.

I''ve been in conversation with a vendor who says that they can cut fancies -- and have cut fancies -- to fit these parameters.

Now I am wondering -- how much of a premium would you be willing to pay to purchase a stone that has great color and great cut?

I''ve been working with a vendor who supplies the ''conventional'' natural fancy colored diamonds -- all yellows -- and his stones look pretty enough.

Wonder what this vendor''s ''ideal cut'' stones will look like?

Firstly, there is no such animal.
Read all the stuff about color in the articles down the left side here if you are really serious and then shoot down shysters.
http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/ written by a very smart and highly intelligent down to earth scientist.

If they really know their stuff they will be able to converse with you and work with you.
And we would be gad to hear about it - but all my alarm bells are ringing loudly from your post

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 10/23/2008 5:59:32 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 10/22/2008 7:40:52 PM

Author:kimikocat

Hi guys!


Some of you probably remember that I posted a thread a while back about cutting fancy colors -- asking your opinion on whether or not cutters can cut a beautiful fancy colored diamond that has brilliance/fire/great light return as well as great color.


I''ve been in conversation with a vendor who says that they can cut fancies -- and have cut fancies -- to fit these parameters.


Now I am wondering -- how much of a premium would you be willing to pay to purchase a stone that has great color and great cut?


I''ve been working with a vendor who supplies the ''conventional'' natural fancy colored diamonds -- all yellows -- and his stones look pretty enough.


Wonder what this vendor''s ''ideal cut'' stones will look like?

Firstly, there is no such animal.

Read all the stuff about color in the articles down the left side here if you are really serious and then shoot down shysters.

http://www.octonus.com/oct/projects/ written by a very smart and highly intelligent down to earth scientist.


If they really know their stuff they will be able to converse with you and work with you.

And we would be gad to hear about it - but all my alarm bells are ringing loudly from your post

Hi Garry!

Thanks for the links. I''ll spend some time with the articles today.

Why does this vendor make your alarm bells ring?

Would it help if I disclosed the vendor''s identity?

 

[kimikocat]

It suddenly occurred to me that maybe I am not presenting the vendor''s viewpoint fairly -- I don''t know if he really meant that he could cut fancy colors to fit "ideal cut" specs (i.e., AGS000 proportions). Maybe he just meant "ideal" for maximum brightness and saturation (the terms that Octonus use in their paper)?

I would be happy to share details of the conversation -- but this Octonus paper will definitely help me get my language more precise. Hopefully that means that the vendor and I will be able to understand each other without great confusion or ambiguity.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

cutting for light return only works in very dark coloured diamond material.
Generally the aim is to improve the colour appearance = less contrast and longer less brilliant ray paths.
If you vendor does not know that he will turn vvid material into fancy and destroy value

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 10/23/2008 8:40:02 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
cutting for light return only works in very dark coloured diamond material.

Generally the aim is to improve the colour appearance = less contrast and longer less brilliant ray paths.

If you vendor does not know that he will turn vvid material into fancy and destroy value

Turning vivid to fancy -- that would be a bad situation.
I see what you mean.
Reading the Octonus pieces helped me understand the science behind cutting for color appearance better. So...am I understanding Octonus''s conclusions correctly? When I read the pieces, I got the impression that colored diamonds should sparkle, but they will be less brilliant than a D-Z diamond?

Eightstar is the vendor in question. I can share some of the vendor''s comments with you, but I''m guessing that you are familiar with their marketing materials and claims?

 

[oldminer]

A highly skilled cutter can make informed choices about how the diamond will look after cutting. Hopefully, the cutter takes into account all the factors which will make the diamond look the best and return the best value on the piece of rough. Every piece of rouh has a slightly different ability to be cut successfully and each has its own tendencies. You can use software like DiamCalc and Octonus to make some wonderful predictons of how it can be cut, but the cutter must keep his customres and the market value in mind, too.

I have seen some dark fancy colored diamonds which I believe might have been cut to look better, but I sure can''t know for sure. I must assume the cutter did what they could and what they intended. There would be no harm in using very high precision of polish and symmetry on fancy color diamonds to help create a "brand", but it won''t mean a whole lot unless the final stone has the right blend of color, and light return.

 

[kimikocat]

Date: 10/24/2008 11:41:36 AM
Author: oldminer
A highly skilled cutter can make informed choices about how the diamond will look after cutting. Hopefully, the cutter takes into account all the factors which will make the diamond look the best and return the best value on the piece of rough. Every piece of rouh has a slightly different ability to be cut successfully and each has its own tendencies. You can use software like DiamCalc and Octonus to make some wonderful predictons of how it can be cut, but the cutter must keep his customres and the market value in mind, too.


I have seen some dark fancy colored diamonds which I believe might have been cut to look better, but I sure can''t know for sure. I must assume the cutter did what they could and what they intended. There would be no harm in using very high precision of polish and symmetry on fancy color diamonds to help create a ''brand'', but it won''t mean a whole lot unless the final stone has the right blend of color, and light return.

Dear David,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful response. I am beginning to think that the life of a diamond cutter involves much more stress than I had ever imagined . One day it would be really fascinating to see the entire process -- from rough to finished product -- and observe all the decisions that were made along the way.

I suppose the lesson here is to let the eye continue to be the guide, and let the brand play a limited role in our aesthetic judgments. I find choosing/buying fancy colors and cuts to be quite nervewracking in the sense that I must trust on my own senses, and I don''t have access to the same sets of tools (Idealscopes, firescopes, ASETS) that others use when gauging an ideal cut round.

kimiko

 

[diagem]

Date: 10/24/2008 11:41:36 AM
Author: oldminer
A highly skilled cutter can make informed choices about how the diamond will look after cutting. Hopefully, the cutter takes into account all the factors which will make the diamond look the best and return the best value on the piece of rough. Every piece of rouh has a slightly different ability to be cut successfully and each has its own tendencies. You can use software like DiamCalc and Octonus to make some wonderful predictons of how it can be cut, but the cutter must keep his customres and the market value in mind, too.

Tools for predictions are great..., but I believe they are limited as the varieties of different color hue''s in the material plus the color zoning can give tools a pretty hard time predicting the outcome of the polished results from the visual colors seen in the rough material...

I have seen some dark fancy colored diamonds which I believe might have been cut to look better, but I sure can''t know for sure. I must assume the cutter did what they could and what they intended. There would be no harm in using very high precision of polish and symmetry on fancy color diamonds to help create a ''brand'', but it won''t mean a whole lot unless the final stone has the right blend of color, and light return.

Most cutters attempt to darken the hue (bodycolor) in the face up position as those Diamonds are getting color graded that way...

But a rough Diamond which possesses a true body color can be cut to standard Diamond cut proportions....

Here is a thread I suggest reading on the subject:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/fancy-light-yellow-fancy-or-cape.66898/