Cushion Frustration

[goobear78]

Mine is a "modern" cushion brilliant. I think Charmypoo is right that my stone plot is like #2, but I''ll check when I get home. I''ve been told my cut is very rare (by Mark, WF & David Wolf) and they are not cutting them much any more. I''ve also been told their is a premium for this cut and it will increase in value. True? I don''t know, but I love the way it looks!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I have been told the same thing but that is about 8 main pavillions in general and not so much how the top of the diamond is cut. Too confusing!

 

[goobear78]

Maybe it''s just a sales tool? I just picked the stone because it sung my name. LOL. I do also really like the chunky cushions too!

 

[DaCounselor]

I definitely like the 8 pav main look over the 4 pav main so that''s what I have been focusing on. The 4 pav main seems to have that "X" appearance through the table. Just from surfing the net the past few days, it sure looks like there are alot more 4 pav mains out there to be had.

I have yet to see a chunky cushion in person and I''m wondering if they are associated more with a 8 pav main or you can still find them chunky with 4 mains? I would also love to see photos of cushion brilliants with 4 pav mains, but regular size and not blown up photos like over at James Allen. I think my options would open up if I included 4 pav main stones. The problem of course is that I believe you really need to see these stones in person and there just are not that many around in the local B&M.

Ah, the neverending joys of a cushion hunt.

 

[edl]

Date: 9/18/2008 3:51:54 PM
Author: goobear78
Mine is a ''modern'' cushion brilliant. I think Charmypoo is right that my stone plot is like #2, but I''ll check when I get home. I''ve been told my cut is very rare (by Mark, WF & David Wolf) and they are not cutting them much any more. I''ve also been told their is a premium for this cut and it will increase in value. True? I don''t know, but I love the way it looks!

I believe the modern cushion brilliants with 8 pavs (like stone plot #2) do cost the most per ct, at least that''s what I noticed from my research.

Then again, it''s hard to find any 8 pav cushion with proper table/depth, ratio, size etc. that catches your eye at the right price point!

 

[edl]

Date: 9/18/2008 6:56:07 PM
Author: DaCounselor
I definitely like the 8 pav main look over the 4 pav main so that''s what I have been focusing on. The 4 pav main seems to have that ''X'' appearance through the table. Just from surfing the net the past few days, it sure looks like there are alot more 4 pav mains out there to be had.

I have yet to see a chunky cushion in person and I''m wondering if they are associated more with a 8 pav main or you can still find them chunky with 4 mains? I would also love to see photos of cushion brilliants with 4 pav mains, but regular size and not blown up photos like over at James Allen. I think my options would open up if I included 4 pav main stones. The problem of course is that I believe you really need to see these stones in person and there just are not that many around in the local B&M.

Ah, the neverending joys of a cushion hunt.

The chunky look is generally associated with 8 pav mains and the first plot.

You''re correct about the X appearance on the 4 pav stones. However, like you also correctly stated diamonds are much much smaller in real life compared to these 25x blow-ups here on PS.

In general, the modifieds will give you more crushed ice and sparkle, the "regular" cushion brilliants put out more chunky flare.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I will find you the link later tonight but GoG had a video that featured a gorgeous chunky 4 main pavillion cushion. I agree with you though that I can see the X even in real life. There is also something with the cut that makes the table look a certain way (wasn''t a fan of it). I kept thinking it was a symmetry problem but it wasn''t. Good luck - don''t give up!

 

[DaCounselor]

edl - I did see a cushion modified in person recently and it definitely has that "bucket of crushed ice" look. On a side note, it was incredible how much more I knew than the sales guy about the intricacies of cushions. Not alot of knowledge out there on this type of stone, I guess - this was a high end shop to boot.

i think i know what you mean about the look of the table on the 4 pav main cushions, Charmypoo - at least the ones I have seen close-up photos of don''t seem to have even a smidge of chunkiness, they look kind of glassy across the table with the "X" underneath.

I understand that GOG takes really great photos and even some video, so I''m thinking of reaching out to them and getting them involved in my search as well.

 

[goobear78]

Checked my GIA and my cushion is the same plot as #2. Good eye Charmypoo!

I saw 4 & 8 main pavillion cushions. The 4 mp cushions just didn't compare in my opinion. Mark was crazy about one 4 mp, but I didn't agree and he didn't push.

For cushions, I really love both the modern and the OMC. Now that I've got the modern, I'm going to have to work on getting a OMC too.

 

[stone_seeker]

your ratio is really going to limit you the most. you should expand it to 1.09 or 1.10 and also consider I color. definitely also consider good symm or polish - those are more than fine. at least then you can see more stones that you might like.

I worked with mark for 3 months and he didnt find me my cushion but some other guy did. mark has integrity and i'm sure would love to sell you what you want. these chunky cushions get picked up by brokers from these manufacturers right away and try to get sold to dealers and others. it does take some time but your parameters are very narrow.

i saw about 30 cushions between 2 brokers before i knew exactly what i wanted. find the 2 most important things (i.e. chunky and H color) and broaden some of the other parameters and you will find one you love.

 

[indypitty]

Not to threadjack, but all this talk about 4 and 8 main pavillion cushions has me curious about my own cushion. It had six main pavillions. I started a thread on it a while back, but didn''t get much response. I have not seen many, if any, other cushions with six main pavillions and it just makes me question my diamond.

 

[mystiqkal]

we were told by our jeweler that our cushion (#5) is also rare and hard to find (i think that #5 and #8 are the same type of cushion) so it's probably safe to assume that cushions with 8-mains are just plain rare . Even though my FI purchased it from Blue Nile which is suppose to be one of the more reasonable sites, we definitely paid well above premium for it because of the demand. It was on the search engine for a total of 2 hours before he snatched it up (he searched when he left work and it wasnt there but checked again when he got home and it was). He paid over 16k for a 1.59ct F/VS2 ex/ex that was a perfect square. Its all about supply and demand, they can charge what they do if lots of people want it and there arent very many of them on the market. In the end it was worth it because we love it, but you have to accept that it can be very hard to find and if your not diligently looking, it might take you longer...

 

[mystiqkal]

Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest). jmo

another thing, i would definitely check with your gf and see if shes open to having a rectangular cushion. Its really a personal preference and you really dont want to go outside of the "squarish" range if its not something she would be happy with, even if it would open up your options.

sometimes it takes time to find the perfect diamond but in my eyes that just makes that diamond and the thought you put into it just that much more special. jmo again...

 

[sillysweetie]

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM
Author: MsMisty
Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest). jmo

another thing, i would definitely check with your gf and see if shes open to having a rectangular cushion. Its really a personal preference and you really dont want to go outside of the ''squarish'' range if its not something she would be happy with, even if it would open up your options.

sometimes it takes time to find the perfect diamond but in my eyes that just makes that diamond and the thought you put into it just that much more special. jmo again...

From what I saw on PS, it seems to me that EX/EX polish and symmetry only happens in "cushion modern brillant" (#2 in previous plots) and other 4 pav mains. I''ve never seen EX symmetry for 8 pav chunky cushion brilliant (#1). Please correct me if I''m wrong.

 

[mystiqkal]

Date: 9/19/2008 5:21:57 AM
Author: sillysweetie

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM
Author: MsMisty
Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest). jmo

another thing, i would definitely check with your gf and see if shes open to having a rectangular cushion. Its really a personal preference and you really dont want to go outside of the ''squarish'' range if its not something she would be happy with, even if it would open up your options.

sometimes it takes time to find the perfect diamond but in my eyes that just makes that diamond and the thought you put into it just that much more special. jmo again...

From what I saw on PS, it seems to me that EX/EX polish and symmetry only happens in ''cushion modern brillant'' (#2 in previous plots) and other 4 pav mains. I''ve never seen EX symmetry for 8 pav chunky cushion brilliant (#1). Please correct me if I''m wrong.

hum...well my cushion is an ex/ex and its a cushion brilliant with an 8-main (according to the GIA report)...

 

[elmo]

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM
Author: MsMisty
Also, it's been our experience that you shouldn't sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest).

No no no, proportions and not polish and symmetry is what really matters on this. Given the same proportions, performance will be the same for good/good and ex/ex with a cushion, and it would take magnification to see the difference.

If yours is plot #5, you have what folks here call an 8-main "modern". They have a completely different look (to me at least) than a traditional 8 main cushion.

another thing, i would definitely check with your gf and see if shes open to having a rectangular cushion. Its really a personal preference and you really dont want to go outside of the 'squarish' range if its not something she would be happy with, even if it would open up your options.

This I agree with 100%. Length/width of 1 and 1.1 is a different look. Some folks may not care, others will care, but 1.1+ will give you a noticeably rectangular look vs. squarish.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Both MsMisty and DC888 have ex/ex diamonds. I would have loved one too but I don''t want my boyrfriend to pay the premium. Our diamond was appraised as ex/ex but rated as ex/g (kinda strange since I don''t typically see the polish/symmetry being two ratings apart).

 

[mystiqkal]

Date: 9/19/2008 1:14:31 PM
Author: elmo

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM
Author: MsMisty
Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest).

No no no, proportions and not polish and symmetry is what really matters on this. Given the same proportions, performance will be the same for good/good and ex/ex with a cushion, and it would take magnification to see the difference.

If yours is plot #5, you have what folks here call an 8-main ''modern''. They have a completely different look (to me at least) than a traditional 8 main cushion.

Can someone confirm this? We''ve been told by several jewelers and our appraiser that its the polish and symmetry that really makes the diamond shine, in fact even though our diamond is a F, we''ve been told on serveral occasions it faces up like an E

 

[DaCounselor]

GOG has a few cushions that look pretty nice - a 1.55 and a 1.24 - that I am going to follow up on. I really like the fact that they take good pix and the videos are a huge plus. It really helps when you are getting ready to plunk down a bunch of cash to have seen the stone as best possible without seeing it in person.

My GF is into the squarish/cushion look - we first looked at princess cuts but they were actually too pointed on the corners for her taste, particularly after you get it set and the prongs accentuate the corners even more. I really want to stick with something as close to 1:1 as possible but I don''t think that going to 1:1.05 or so is a big deal.

So I''m definitely going to get GOG in the mix and possiblity WhiteFlash as well.

Regarding the rare availability of the chunkier cushions, I would think that the word is on the street regarding this and that we would be seeing more of these cuts to respond to the demand. Anyone know why we are not seeing this yet?

 

[goobear78]

Date: 9/19/2008 3:10:11 PM
Author: DaCounselor
Regarding the rare availability of the chunkier cushions, I would think that the word is on the street regarding this and that we would be seeing more of these cuts to respond to the demand. Anyone know why we are not seeing this yet?

I've been told that they are not making the square chunky cb much anymore because the same stone could usually be cut into a round and cutters will get more $ for the rounds than a cushion. Anyone else have a clue?

 

[sillysweetie]

Date: 9/19/2008 12:39:34 PM
Author: MsMisty

Date: 9/19/2008 5:21:57 AM

Author: sillysweetie

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM

Author: MsMisty

Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest). jmo


another thing, i would definitely check with your gf and see if shes open to having a rectangular cushion. Its really a personal preference and you really dont want to go outside of the ''squarish'' range if its not something she would be happy with, even if it would open up your options.


sometimes it takes time to find the perfect diamond but in my eyes that just makes that diamond and the thought you put into it just that much more special. jmo again...

From what I saw on PS, it seems to me that EX/EX polish and symmetry only happens in ''cushion modern brillant'' (#2 in previous plots) and other 4 pav mains. I''ve never seen EX symmetry for 8 pav chunky cushion brilliant (#1). Please correct me if I''m wrong.

hum...well my cushion is an ex/ex and its a cushion brilliant with an 8-main (according to the GIA report)...

If I''m correct, yours should look like the second plot which is sometimes called cushion brilliant in GIA cert and with 8 pav mains but the pav mains don''t align with the crown mains like the chunky cushions do.....It''s really confusing......

 

[mystiqkal]

Date: 9/20/2008 2:16:49 PM
Author: sillysweetie


If I''m correct, yours should look like the second plot which is sometimes called cushion brilliant in GIA cert and with 8 pav mains but the pav mains don''t align with the crown mains like the chunky cushions do.....It''s really confusing......

Mines is actually the 5th plot (charmypoo actually pulled that from one of my postings and the GIA report and picture are mines). the 2nd and 5th plot are actually slightly different. The table on mines is cut slightly different, its rotated a bit and looks more like a stop sign, like the plot of a square hearts & arrows. DC888 (#6) and I have the same plot.

 

[edl]

Date: 9/19/2008 3:30:16 PM
Author: goobear78

Date: 9/19/2008 3:10:11 PM
Author: DaCounselor
Regarding the rare availability of the chunkier cushions, I would think that the word is on the street regarding this and that we would be seeing more of these cuts to respond to the demand. Anyone know why we are not seeing this yet?

I''ve been told that they are not making the square chunky cb much anymore because the same stone could usually be cut into a round and cutters will get more $ for the rounds than a cushion. Anyone else have a clue?

I also heard that 8-pav CB''s are a rare item because cutters can either cut a RB and get more money, or cut a CMB with greater weight (again more money).

But then again, we''re probably hearing this from the same source

 

[CharmyPoo]

I heard the same but you are right - we are all getitng it from the same source. But the rotated bottom - I learned on my own

I was trying to figure out why #2 looked different from 3,4,5,6,7 and the rotated top was the difference. It is amazing what a difference it makes.

 

[DaCounselor]

Regarding square cushion tables, I have noticed in pictures that the outline of the table in some cushions appears perfectly set in relation to the outline of the stone. The best example of what I am talking about is the second from the top diamond posted by Charmypoo on the first page of this thread. Do you see what I mean? Then, if you look at the top stone posted by Charmypoo, the outline of the table appears slightly askew, although its not as clear as the table outline in the second stone.

Does anyone know if this is readily apparent when the stones are not magnified? And does the way the table is set affect performance in any way?

I am looking at a stone with a slightly askew table but I think I light the perfectly symmetrical look better.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I won''t use those diamonds as examples since they all belong to someone and I believe are all very beautiful examples of cushion cuts.

In real life, I think I can see what you are describing as skewed (althoug I won''t say that about the diamonds in the photos I posted). There was a diamond shown to me that looked skewed to me but Mark told me it was perfect and that''s how the cuts are suppose to be. So who knows! I am really really sensitive to symmetry though.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 9/19/2008 2:04:32 PM
Author: MsMisty

Date: 9/19/2008 1:14:31 PM

Author: elmo

Date: 9/19/2008 2:56:22 AM

Author: MsMisty

Also, it''s been our experience that you shouldn''t sacrifice on the polish/cut/symmetry. Keep in mind that if a cushion (or any diamond really) has ex/ex specs it will shine brighter and whiter (which means you could potentially go down on color and up on the rest).

No no no, proportions and not polish and symmetry is what really matters on this. Given the same proportions, performance will be the same for good/good and ex/ex with a cushion, and it would take magnification to see the difference.


If yours is plot #5, you have what folks here call an 8-main ''modern''. They have a completely different look (to me at least) than a traditional 8 main cushion.

Can someone confirm this? We''ve been told by several jewelers and our appraiser that its the polish and symmetry that really makes the diamond shine, in fact even though our diamond is a F, we''ve been told on serveral occasions it faces up like an E

yes it is true... good can sometimes be an issue but vg to ex will not make a difference all else being equal.
When buying online with g in either polish or symmetry or both someone needs to eyeball it and make sure there are no bad effects. (there often are not)
Since you need pictures anyway this isn''t a huge issue to have the vendor eyeball it.

Light and Cut and the optical properties of diamonds make diamonds shine.
Inclusions, color, and sym/pol under G and in some cases good can degrade that but not improve it.
A badly cut D/IF/EX/EX can be fugly and a well cut K/SI2/g/g can put it to shame.

 

[edl]

Date: 9/23/2008 9:05:45 PM
Author: DaCounselor
Regarding square cushion tables, I have noticed in pictures that the outline of the table in some cushions appears perfectly set in relation to the outline of the stone. The best example of what I am talking about is the second from the top diamond posted by Charmypoo on the first page of this thread. Do you see what I mean? Then, if you look at the top stone posted by Charmypoo, the outline of the table appears slightly askew, although its not as clear as the table outline in the second stone.

Does anyone know if this is readily apparent when the stones are not magnified? And does the way the table is set affect performance in any way?

I am looking at a stone with a slightly askew table but I think I light the perfectly symmetrical look better.

I don''t think you have to worry about that so much - in real life, the tables on the first and second stones posted by Charmypoo are perfectly cut in relation to the "outline" (I''m assuming you mean pavillion facets) of the stone. I''m sure about this, since I spent over an hour in Mark''s office examining both stones under a loupe before purchasing the first one. To be fair the second stone is more perfectly cut, but both stones are very symetrical even under magnification.

The reason why it might not appear this way is because those photos were taken with different cameras. Diamonds are extremely difficult to photograph.

 

[DaCounselor]

"In real life, I think I can see what you are describing as skewed (althoug I won''t say that about the diamonds in the photos I posted). There was a diamond shown to me that looked skewed to me but Mark told me it was perfect and that''s how the cuts are suppose to be. So who knows! I am really really sensitive to symmetry though."
____________________________________

After further review I have to say that I don''t think the "askew issue" is even really an issue to me. I took a closer look at some photos of fatafelice''s stone and in some photos there is that "askew" visual but man what an awesome stone and the inspiration for my search. gotta say that her photography skills are awesome and that is definitely a factor in getting a good look at the rock.