Cushion Frustration

[DaCounselor]

After deciding to chase what appears to be the elusive chunky cushion, I contacted Mark at ERD about 3 months ago with the following parameters:

1.25 carat range
Color - H or better
Clarity - eye clean is the goal - SI1 is okay so long as it''s eye clean
L/W - as close to 1:1 as possible - probably no greater than 1-1.05
Fluorescence - prefer none, but faint may work
Pavilion mains - prefer 8, not 4
Polish & Symmetry - VG or better

I also sent Mark pictures of fatafelice''s and Scarlet''s stones as they really represent the chunky look I am after. Mark told me from the get go that there were not alot of chunky stones out there - or at least good ones. So I''ve been sitting tight for about 3 months now, with the occassional follow-up email exchange with Mark, but without any stones to look at. He did indicate that the 4 pavilion main and less chunky cushions were easier to find, but I don''t think that''s what I''m looking for.

I guess I''m just getting frustrated with the apparent lack of stones that meet my criteria. Can anyone who has been through this process tell me if this type of wait is typical or if I should be taking some other action? My plan was to simply put myself in Mark''s hands and let him find me the rock so I didn''t have to go on the chase myself. I feel like I''m in very good hands and everyone here has great results with him so it''s probably the inventory that''s the issue. I''m just frustrated, I suppose. Time wasn''t an issue 3 months ago, but it''s going to start being an issue eventually.

Sorry for the rant - guess I just need a sounding board. Thanks to all cushion fans here who have provided such a great education on the intricacies of this beautiful stone.

 

[neatfreak]

I''m sure stock is the issue....Mark would love to sell you a stone if he could find one for you!

 

[mystiqkal]

8-mains are pretty difficult to find. My FI searched almost every day on all the search engines for almost 2 months before he found my diamond (which he purchased from blue nile). I think your odds are better if you are actively searching for it...

 

[goobear78]

Have you spoken to Mark about your frustation? I''ve found him to be very responsive and he''s the man to go to for cushions. I got my cushion from him.

 

[bgray]

I am sorry you are frustrated but Mark at ERD has no special abilities or sources for cushions. He took advantage of the incredible demand for cushions and the fact that they are much easier to sell than round as they are typically somewhat irregularly cut and so people cannot be as demanding about specs and performance. I found him frusrtating to deal with. I have purchased from a few of the vendors here as well as Blue Nile where I bought a pair of 2 carat old style cushions. I suggest you scour the lists and email all vendors and whoever comes through --then great for both of you. Mark is not someone who will put that much effort into it. He like to pick 3 stones: best to worst and sell you on the "best" even if it is not exactly what you wanted.

 

[CharmyPoo]

We have just been through the process and I can understand your frustration. I have not seen anything meeting your criteria come up in the last 5 months and I have been searching sorta in your criteria. My focus was on E to F and VS1 or better but we did broaden our search into the range you are after. I also had a criteria with no culet but we were more flexible on the chunky look. We ended up adjusting our criteria and landed in G and going a bit bigger. We asked about waiting on an F and Mark told us that we could be waiting 2 weeks of 5 months - we never know what will pop up.

Have you been in to see Mark and see the different cushions? What I found was that I actually became more flexible after seeing the stones in person. What we thought was really important changed slightly. Everything we see on pricescope is blown up huge and that is not what we really see in real life. I know you are after 8 main pavillion but Mark has a very nice 4 pavillion cushion right now. It is 1.2 F VVS2 but faces up very large. It was our original stone that he held on for 4 months for us.

Your approach is probably right - a lot of diamonds are snatched up before it hits the search engines. Just be patient and Mark will find something for you. If it is out there, he will get his hands on it.

 

[panda08]

Date: 9/16/2008 8:13:42 PM
Author:DaCounselor
After deciding to chase what appears to be the elusive chunky cushion, I contacted Mark at ERD about 3 months ago with the following parameters:


1.25 carat range

Color - H or better

Clarity - eye clean is the goal - SI1 is okay so long as it''s eye clean

L/W - as close to 1:1 as possible - probably no greater than 1-1.05

Fluorescence - prefer none, but faint may work

Pavilion mains - prefer 8, not 4

Polish & Symmetry - VG or better


I also sent Mark pictures of fatafelice''s and Scarlet''s stones as they really represent the chunky look I am after. Mark told me from the get go that there were not alot of chunky stones out there - or at least good ones. So I''ve been sitting tight for about 3 months now, with the occassional follow-up email exchange with Mark, but without any stones to look at. He did indicate that the 4 pavilion main and less chunky cushions were easier to find, but I don''t think that''s what I''m looking for.


I guess I''m just getting frustrated with the apparent lack of stones that meet my criteria. Can anyone who has been through this process tell me if this type of wait is typical or if I should be taking some other action? My plan was to simply put myself in Mark''s hands and let him find me the rock so I didn''t have to go on the chase myself. I feel like I''m in very good hands and everyone here has great results with him so it''s probably the inventory that''s the issue. I''m just frustrated, I suppose. Time wasn''t an issue 3 months ago, but it''s going to start being an issue eventually.


Sorry for the rant - guess I just need a sounding board. Thanks to all cushion fans here who have provided such a great education on the intricacies of this beautiful stone.

I''m sorry you''re feeling frustrated. The hunt for the perfect cushion can be a headache. Perhaps you''d feel better if you actively searched for what you''re looking for? Maybe it''s cuz I''m type-A and haven''t much patience but I looked high and low like a woman possessed. I looked online, I looked in stores. I looked at modern stones and antique stones. Also, the more I looked, the more I got a feel for what I wanted and what I was willing to compromise on. My original specs were initially very close to yours. When I had trouble finding it, on a whim, I broadened my search to all color ranges and clarity, just focused on the cut and found the one I got. It''s not the square cushion I originally hoped to get (its ratio is 1:10) but it has everything else I was wanted and I love it!

Hang in there! Good luck and hopefully you''ll find the right one soon

 

[Indira-London]

Date: 9/16/2008 8:13:42 PM
Author:DaCounselor
After deciding to chase what appears to be the elusive chunky cushion, I contacted Mark at ERD about 3 months ago with the following parameters:

1.25 carat range
Color - H or better
Clarity - eye clean is the goal - SI1 is okay so long as it''s eye clean
L/W - as close to 1:1 as possible - probably no greater than 1-1.05
Fluorescence - prefer none, but faint may work
Pavilion mains - prefer 8, not 4
Polish & Symmetry - VG or better

I also sent Mark pictures of fatafelice''s and Scarlet''s stones as they really represent the chunky look I am after. Mark told me from the get go that there were not alot of chunky stones out there - or at least good ones. So I''ve been sitting tight for about 3 months now, with the occassional follow-up email exchange with Mark, but without any stones to look at. He did indicate that the 4 pavilion main and less chunky cushions were easier to find, but I don''t think that''s what I''m looking for.

I guess I''m just getting frustrated with the apparent lack of stones that meet my criteria. Can anyone who has been through this process tell me if this type of wait is typical or if I should be taking some other action? My plan was to simply put myself in Mark''s hands and let him find me the rock so I didn''t have to go on the chase myself. I feel like I''m in very good hands and everyone here has great results with him so it''s probably the inventory that''s the issue. I''m just frustrated, I suppose. Time wasn''t an issue 3 months ago, but it''s going to start being an issue eventually.

Sorry for the rant - guess I just need a sounding board. Thanks to all cushion fans here who have provided such a great education on the intricacies of this beautiful stone.

Cushions are much less available than round brilliant diamonds - whilst numbers can vary generally >80% of all diamonds are cut in the round brilliant shape whereas perhaps 1 in 1500-4000 is cut in the cushion shape! Moreover whilst all well-cut round brilliant diamonds are the same round shape - cushion cut diamonds VARY GREATLY IN THEIR SHAPE and in the LENGTH/WIDTH RATIOS. By no means are all cushions the square shape that you are looking for.

Moreover, after 1 carat, diamond trade prices nearly double at 1.5 carat hence many cutters would rather cut a 1.5 carat diamond when they can rather than a 1.2+ carat diamond if the rough diamond allows this (as the rough diamond is usually about double or so the carat weight of the finished cushion), in many cases they have the option. In a ROUND diamond the average diameter for a 1.5 carat diamond is 7.4mm whereas the average diameter for a 1.25 carat is 6.9mm - in a cushion there are no averages but the difference in visual size can be even smaller between 1.2+ and 1.5 as cushions are a deeper cut than a round brilliant diamond.

When well-cut 1.2+ carat cushion diamonds are produced, they usually get snapped up quickly at the trade level as there are always more clients looking for these diamonds than there is supply.

Hence, the combination of a well-cut 1.2+ carat AND square AND all the other parameters is relatively rare - moreover a good vendor does not sell any cushion that is out there, most good vendors will reject ones that are not well-cut (symmetry off, too deep, too shallow...etc) hence if your vendor is saying availibility is low he has a number of reasons that can support that view.

I hope this helps.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:21:49 PM
Author: bgray
I am sorry you are frustrated but Mark at ERD has no special abilities or sources for cushions. He took advantage of the incredible demand for cushions and the fact that they are much easier to sell than round as they are typically somewhat irregularly cut and so people cannot be as demanding about specs and performance. I found him frusrtating to deal with. I have purchased from a few of the vendors here as well as Blue Nile where I bought a pair of 2 carat old style cushions. I suggest you scour the lists and email all vendors and whoever comes through --then great for both of you. Mark is not someone who will put that much effort into it. He like to pick 3 stones: best to worst and sell you on the ''best'' even if it is not exactly what you wanted.

Mark does have an excellent rep for cushions here, he has found many beautiful diamonds for discerning PSers, and apparently gone well out of his way to make them happy. Also he is in the heart of the DD so he does have access to a lot of stock.

I am sorry your experience wasn''t the greatest with him though and it sounds as if you ended up with some gorgeous cushions! Are there any pics of them anywhere??

 

[goobear78]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:41:08 PM
Author: CharmyPoo

Your approach is probably right - a lot of diamonds are snatched up before it hits the search engines. Just be patient and Mark will find something for you. If it is out there, he will get his hands on it.

That''s what happened to us. The stone we ended up purchasing from Mark was brand new and didn''t even get on the search engine. So hang in there and keep the line of communication open!

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:21:49 PM
Author: bgray
I am sorry you are frustrated but Mark at ERD has no special abilities or sources for cushions. He took advantage of the incredible demand for cushions and the fact that they are much easier to sell than round as they are typically somewhat irregularly cut and so people cannot be as demanding about specs and performance. I found him frusrtating to deal with. I have purchased from a few of the vendors here as well as Blue Nile where I bought a pair of 2 carat old style cushions. I suggest you scour the lists and email all vendors and whoever comes through --then great for both of you. Mark is not someone who will put that much effort into it. He like to pick 3 stones: best to worst and sell you on the 'best' even if it is not exactly what you wanted.

I have to disagree with this statement...I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with him, but most of us have found the opposite with Mark. That you give him the parameters you are working with and he'll find you a selection of fantastic stones to choose from. I haven't seen a dog come from Mark yet and I have seen some DOGS that people call cushions...

Mark was able to quickly source a number of stones for me to choose from AND not only that, but he brought the cream of the crop to my parent's house, on a weekend, while he was at his vacation home because I really wanted to see them in person and it was the only opportunity. He gets an A+ for effort from me!

I think the OP's problem is really the size PLUS the fact that he wants a completely square stone AND that he wants it chunky...there just aren't that many around that meet those criteria...

 

[elmo]

Date: 9/16/2008 11:21:49 PM
Author: bgray
I am sorry you are frustrated but Mark at ERD has no special abilities or sources for cushions. He took advantage of the incredible demand for cushions and the fact that they are much easier to sell than round as they are typically somewhat irregularly cut and so people cannot be as demanding about specs and performance. I found him frusrtating to deal with. I have purchased from a few of the vendors here as well as Blue Nile where I bought a pair of 2 carat old style cushions. I suggest you scour the lists and email all vendors and whoever comes through --then great for both of you. Mark is not someone who will put that much effort into it. He like to pick 3 stones: best to worst and sell you on the ''best'' even if it is not exactly what you wanted.

Still laughing...

Regardless, if it''s been three months I think you need another plan.

How about adding some flexibility? The quickest way to turn up some candidates will be to increase and decrease size color and clarity. Add some antiques to the mix.

GOG has a nice 1 carat GVS1 with the look - http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4801/

Old World Diamonds has a nice looking 1.16 IVS2 oldminer - http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/inv_details.php?ID=1858&SHAPE=OM&PAGE=3

Both are close to square and will get you engaged in a nice setting.

 

[goobear78]

I say don''t give up hope with Mark just yet. He found me a perfectly square cushion brilliant 1.75 F color, SI1 (totally eye clean), that has the 8 facets chunky look. I know you are in a rush, but this is one thing I wouldn''t rush. The funny thing is, I was starting to give up hope too and once I said to myself, well if it happens great, if it doesn''t I can wait, the next day I got a call from Mark with my perfect stone. Seriously. So it happens, just be patient and be proactive. I also had calls into Pearlman''s (very nice but didn''t find anything), Whiteflash (also really nice, but couldn''t find the CB 8facets - they have a ton of really nice CMB), GOG (great selection), James Allen (not as thrilled with their service, but they have a great range), Blue Nile and Mark at ERD. So I was out there.

 

[strmrdr]

Polish & Symmetry - VG or better

Drop that to good with no eye visible effects and you just increased your potential options by a factor of 20.
Since Mark is going to be viewing them he can weed out any with a problem.

Fluorescence - prefer none, but faint may work
Go up to med to further increase your options with no effect on the looks.

 

[CharmyPoo]

goobear - I am 99% sure that your diamond is the one I saw. Same story as what Mark told us. Our diamond just arrived from a foreign market as well so it never hit the search engines.

bgray - I am sorry you had a bad experience but everyone is looking for a different thing. I wanted tons of diamonds to chose from but the reality is that the choice is slim and Mark can only present so many options. Many of his customers are probably looking for something similar so he can only do so much. He will never pressure you to buy a stone. If you don''t like it, say no and move on. I did my own research and looked at the search engines all the time - Mark was able to find us diamonds that we could not find on our own.

Can other vendors do it? Probably - that is why it is a competitive market. I am sure all of Mark''s sources are also other vendor''s sources. However, if Mark is known as the cushion guy in the district, I don''t see why his sources won''t send him the "nice" ones first.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I agree with Karl that you can drop on the polish/symmetry rating. Those ratings aren''t measured and is subjective to a degree. I was so set on ex/ex but ended up with ex/g and I am really sensitive to symmetry. The appraiser found the diamond to have excellent symmetry but it is not the appraiser I trust .. but my eyes that told me.

 

[goobear78]

I went and saw Mark 4 times in person, before finding the one.

*Threadjack* Charmypoo - do you have pictures of your stone?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Sorry Thread hi-jacking - wish there was PM still.

goobear - I have no pics!! We forgot our camera that day and the bf doesn''t like bugging our vendors. I have been begging him to get a photo from Mark especially since David Wolf didn''t include a photo in our appraisal

However, our diamond looks almost exactly like yours but smaller. Your diamond was our inspiration and the one Mark had to grab from me because I said I was going to run away with it.

 

[goobear78]

Aww thanks CharmpyPoo. Can't wait to see yours. I'm sure it is lovely!!! Funny, Mark showed me a 2ct that was actually the inspiration for ours but that one was sold too, not to mention completely out of our price range. D, IF, 2ct. YUMMY.

*end of threadjack*

 

[DaCounselor]

Thanks, everyone, for all the input. I''m going to expand my parameters as suggested, including going up to a 1.50 stone. I''m a bit concerned that going that big will blow my budget, but we will see what turns up and at what price.

Also, I have spent so much time focusing on chunky cushions that I may have put blinders on. I''m going to take a step back and also look at less chunky cushion brilliants with 4 mains and see how I feel about them. Honestly, I''m getting to the point where I would just like to have a numberr of great stones to choose from as opposed to having nothing to look at. I may have to accept the fact that my requirements are extremely difficult to meet (and I trust Mark at ERD who has told me as much) and that I need to open up the search a bit.

Thanks again to everyone for weighing in on this and I will keep everyone posted, with pictures and such, when I make some progress!

 

[edl]

Date: 9/17/2008 1:39:53 PM
Author: DaCounselor
Thanks, everyone, for all the input. I''m going to expand my parameters as suggested, including going up to a 1.50 stone. I''m a bit concerned that going that big will blow my budget, but we will see what turns up and at what price.

Also, I have spent so much time focusing on chunky cushions that I may have put blinders on. I''m going to take a step back and also look at less chunky cushion brilliants with 4 mains and see how I feel about them. Honestly, I''m getting to the point where I would just like to have a numberr of great stones to choose from as opposed to having nothing to look at. I may have to accept the fact that my requirements are extremely difficult to meet (and I trust Mark at ERD who has told me as much) and that I need to open up the search a bit.

Thanks again to everyone for weighing in on this and I will keep everyone posted, with pictures and such, when I make some progress!

What is your budget? Mark showed me a nice chunky facet 1.5-ish E VS1 that he just purchased last week, but it''s in the $13K range.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/17/2008 9:53:09 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 9/16/2008 11:21:49 PM
Author: bgray
I am sorry you are frustrated but Mark at ERD has no special abilities or sources for cushions. He took advantage of the incredible demand for cushions and the fact that they are much easier to sell than round as they are typically somewhat irregularly cut and so people cannot be as demanding about specs and performance. I found him frusrtating to deal with. I have purchased from a few of the vendors here as well as Blue Nile where I bought a pair of 2 carat old style cushions. I suggest you scour the lists and email all vendors and whoever comes through --then great for both of you. Mark is not someone who will put that much effort into it. He like to pick 3 stones: best to worst and sell you on the ''best'' even if it is not exactly what you wanted.

I have to disagree with this statement...I''m sorry if you had a bad experience with him, but most of us have found the opposite with Mark. That you give him the parameters you are working with and he''ll find you a selection of fantastic stones to choose from. I haven''t seen a dog come from Mark yet and I have seen some DOGS that people call cushions...

Mark was able to quickly source a number of stones for me to choose from AND not only that, but he brought the cream of the crop to my parent''s house, on a weekend, while he was at his vacation home because I really wanted to see them in person and it was the only opportunity. He gets an A+ for effort from me!

I think the OP''s problem is really the size PLUS the fact that he wants a completely square stone AND that he wants it chunky...there just aren''t that many around that meet those criteria...

Definitely!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I don't want to confuse the matter but there are actually several types of 8 main pavillions. I have attached various plots and photos from recent pricescope posts. I hope people don't mind - I credited you.

Just wanted to note that the second diamond has a different top cut than the bottom three diamonds. The bottom is the same.

 

[CharmyPoo]

...

 

[purrfectpear]

If you are interested in an actual antique cushion, this is a lovely 1.51, F, SI1 at Old World Diamonds

Their picture taking could use some improvement, but Adam will send you better pics if you ask.

 

[DaCounselor]

Thanks for the heads-up edl. Mark did tell me that he has a very nice 1.55 chunky cushion but at $12.8K it''s above my budget. I''m trying to keep the stone in the $7-8K range, so I may have a tough time going bigger and staying in budget. Based on the cushions I have priced online I think I should be able to get a nice one in the 1.25 carat range for that amount, tho.

Thanks for the plots Charmypoo. The first plot/stone that you posted courtesy of edl is most comparable to what I''m after. The second one looks more like a cushion modified brilliant to me but what''s in a name when it comes to cushions?

I fear I''m suffering from the curse of a pricescope surfer - you folks appear to regularly score incredible rocks and now my standards are high - maybe too high or unreasonable? But I''m starting to get fired up after posting here and I''m ready to get out there and attack the search for a beautiful cushion!

 

[DaCounselor]

Oh, and purrfectpear - great link to the antinque cushion - thanks. I am wondering how the true antiques perform? I have always assumed I could expect much less sparkle and flash than a modern cushion and of course I want the best of both worlds!

 

[purrfectpear]

Antique cushions = less pinpoint scintillation but a LOT more fire. Driving, it''s the cushion that starts sparkling all over the car like a disco ball.

I have a modern 2 ct. pear and a 1.75 antique cushion. I much prefer the cushion. So much so that I''ve been contemplating selling the pear and just buying a bigger cushion

 

[edl]

Date: 9/17/2008 9:29:02 PM
Author: DaCounselor
Thanks for the heads-up edl. Mark did tell me that he has a very nice 1.55 chunky cushion but at $12.8K it''s above my budget. I''m trying to keep the stone in the $7-8K range, so I may have a tough time going bigger and staying in budget. Based on the cushions I have priced online I think I should be able to get a nice one in the 1.25 carat range for that amount, tho.

Thanks for the plots Charmypoo. The first plot/stone that you posted courtesy of edl is most comparable to what I''m after. The second one looks more like a cushion modified brilliant to me but what''s in a name when it comes to cushions?

I fear I''m suffering from the curse of a pricescope surfer - you folks appear to regularly score incredible rocks and now my standards are high - maybe too high or unreasonable? But I''m starting to get fired up after posting here and I''m ready to get out there and attack the search for a beautiful cushion!

DaCounselor -

The second stone is a cushion brilliant with 8 pav mains, I believe Mark would call it a "cushion modern brilliant," not to be confused with "cushion modified brilliant." That cutting style is extremely rare, as a result those stones are expensive. The scintillation is also most comparable to a round brilliant, if that''s the look you''re going for.

I would recommend talking to Mark and getting a photo of that 1.55. If that''s the one I saw in his office last week, it has a very similar look to the stone I purchased (the first stone Charmypoo linked above). If you can afford to stretch, you won''t be dissapointed at all.

 

[CharmyPoo]

The second plot is also the same as goobear''s plot based on the photos she sent (not 100% sure). I am not sure what makes #2 modern versus #3 and onwards. I actually have seen a few of the #2 plot and am not convinced it is more rare than the others. I guess I am just thinking there isn''t a price premium for them.

The last 3 diamonds most closely resembles the Tiffany cushion which I would think has the most "modern" look.