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Cushion cut Extra Facet - any advice appreciated

T

Tydruk

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Messages
31
Hi,

I have been sent a GIA certificate for the diamond we are busy considering purchasing. Since we are both pretty amateurs in diamond subject then I would appreciate any advice regarding having an extra facet. Also the Symmetry is GOOD and so far I have read that it ideally it should be either Very Good or Excellent- any thoughts on that?

I have been quoted £8600 and so far it has been the lowest price for a diamond like that and I am starting to wonder whether there is a reason for that.

I was trying to download the GIA Certificate for you to see, but it would not let me to do that for some reason, so I just copy the information here:

Shape and Cutting Style: Cushion Modified Brilliant
Measurements: 6.70 x 5.67 x 3.96 mm

G R A D I N G R E S U L T S
Carat Weight: 1.33 carat;
Color Grade: E
Clarity Grade:VVS2

A D D I T I O N A L G R A D I N G I N F O R M A T I O N
Finish
Symmtery: Good
Polish: Excellent
Fluorescence: None
Cut: well they do not give a cut for cushion shape
Comments:
Additional pinpoints are not shown.
 
I managed to upload the certificate. So, if anyone could help me with some advice I would be very grateful.
 

Attachments

It's a VVS2 stone so any inclusion, including an extra facet shouldn't impact the stone in any visible way, including light performance or structural concerns. Is it possible to get an ASET image of this stone?
 
Christina...|1370987808|3463714 said:
It's a VVS2 stone so any inclusion, including an extra facet shouldn't impact the stone in any visible way, including light performance or structural concerns. Is it possible to get an ASET image of this stone?
Click to expand...
Hi Christina,

The jeweller did not provide the ASET image for the diamond, but we are going to have a look at the diamond tomorrow. Is it something that the jeweller should provide with the diamond?
The reason I am wary about the diamond is that all the other quotes from Hatton Garden have been £11 000- £12 000 for the same carat, colour and clarity diamond.
 
I just did a quick search on JA and I think that you may be paying to much to work with you vendors. Do a quick comparison using the diamond search function at the top of the page. On JA I was able to do a currency conversion, I'm not sure if you can on the PS search but it will give you and idea.

I started to answer your question on symmetry and then remembered this thread from awhile back. I think it will help answer some of your questions. =)
 
I forgot to ask...is there a reason that you are looking for such high color and clarity? Few people are able to distinguish the tiny differences between a G color with compared side by side with an F for instance. Likewise with clarity, a VS2 is almost always eye clean, therefore visually, with the unaided eye you should not be able to see a difference between a VS2 and a VVS2. You will however see a huge difference in you checkbook. ;)) Most PSers consider G VS2 to be the best balance of quality and value. The stone will appear very white and very clean. You could apply the saving toward a larger ct weight, the wedding band, or any of the future expenses that come with starting new lives together.
 
Looking at the stone's diagram I highly doubt the extra facets are what made it's symmetry GOOD.The EFs are probably tiny and you'd only be able to spot them with a loupe.
Other factors must be contributing to the stone's sym grade. Plus, IDEALLY you'd want a stone with ex sym but cushions with ex sym are not that common. I'd be more than happy with a gia VG sym on a cushion.
 
Extra facets shouldn't be an issue for concern in your case. A symmetry of good doesn't mean the stone is bad. Fancy cuts should be assessed physically or as a minimum, with an ASET image.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about this.

I came across a cushion cut with an extra facet the other month during my hunt for a stone... see this thread for details on that: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-brilliant-unsymmetrical.187988/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-brilliant-unsymmetrical.187988/[/URL]

There, the extra facet(s) was/were larger on the GIA plot (albeit on the pavillion underneath rather than the crown). As you can see from some quite zoomed in pics, you can't really detect it at all! That had good symmetry and I don't think its light performance suffered.

And the stone I ultimately went for had G symmetry. Doesn't seem to be a problem in the slightest.
 
Christina...|1370989854|3463738 said:
I forgot to ask...is there a reason that you are looking for such high color and clarity? Few people are able to distinguish the tiny differences between a G color with compared side by side with an F for instance. Likewise with clarity, a VS2 is almost always eye clean, therefore visually, with the unaided eye you should not be able to see a difference between a VS2 and a VVS2. You will however see a huge difference in you checkbook. ;)) Most PSers consider G VS2 to be the best balance of quality and value. The stone will appear very white and very clean. You could apply the saving toward a larger ct weight, the wedding band, or any of the future expenses that come with starting new lives together.
Click to expand...

Hi Christina,

Thank you for all your advice.

The problem is that we don't want to order the diamond from US from various reasons. It would be a different story if we would be coming over and seeing the diamond in person. I know that I could get the diamond much cheaper, but I am a bit scared to order it online and also the tax issue.

I have now decided to lower my expectations and would be happy with VS1 or VS2 as well. After seeing a few diamonds yesterday we both prefer either D or E colour, so I guess we have to shop around a bit.

I went to see the diamond that has an extra facet and it looked nice to us. Although when we asked another dealer about it he said that as long as the facet is not on the top it would be fine. Well the facet is on the top, but I could not see it and it seemed that it sparkled well enough.

Thank you for reply.
 
diamond-enthusiast|1371007983|3463942 said:
Extra facets shouldn't be an issue for concern in your case. A symmetry of good doesn't mean the stone is bad. Fancy cuts should be assessed physically or as a minimum, with an ASET image.
Click to expand...

Hi Diamond-Enthusiast,

Well we looked at the diamond and it looked very nice, but since we are just beginners it is hard to say whether it is a good stone or not. Unfortunately he did not have anything else in stock to compare it to. He said that he will get more stock in next week, so we will be going in again and maybe he has a similar stone we can have a look at it next to the extra facet diamond. Unfortunately he does not have an ASET image, he said that he would have to require it from the manufacturer.

Thank you
 
parnassus0550|1370999811|3463833 said:
Looking at the stone's diagram I highly doubt the extra facets are what made it's symmetry GOOD.The EFs are probably tiny and you'd only be able to spot them with a loupe.
Other factors must be contributing to the stone's sym grade. Plus, IDEALLY you'd want a stone with ex sym but cushions with ex sym are not that common. I'd be more than happy with a gia VG sym on a cushion.
Click to expand...

Hi Parnassus,

Thank you for your reply, much appreciated.

The GIA certificates don't tell much information and I couldn't quite understand why the symmetry was only good. I would also be much happier with VG symmetry. We asked the question about symmetry from many dealers and they all kept saying that do not look at the "numbers" on the GIA certificates as they don't always reflect the truth. Their advice was: Look at the stone and if you like it then try not to read too much in to these numbers and letters and words. Easy to tell, but if you spend over £8000 on a diamond ring then you don't want to be disappointed later on.
 
HoratioNelson|1371039656|3464079 said:
I wouldn't worry too much about this.

I came across a cushion cut with an extra facet the other month during my hunt for a stone... see this thread for details on that: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-brilliant-unsymmetrical.187988/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-brilliant-unsymmetrical.187988/[/URL]

There, the extra facet(s) was/were larger on the GIA plot (albeit on the pavillion underneath rather than the crown). As you can see from some quite zoomed in pics, you can't really detect it at all! That had good symmetry and I don't think its light performance suffered.

And the stone I ultimately went for had G symmetry. Doesn't seem to be a problem in the slightest.
Click to expand...

Hi HoratioNelson,

Thank you for the link and information. I think we will be looking for a diamond for another 3 weeks before we will decide which dealer to use as we would like to get a fair price, but at the same time I don't want to end up getting a bad quality diamond. It is rather difficult procedure to find the best diamond you can afford as you can't trust the dealers as they are all after the biggest profit.
I have read a lot about Dr Indira ( http://www.bestdiamonds.co.uk). It seems that people have had excellent experiences with her, but they also mention that she is quite expensive. I don't understand how her prices are much higher than the dealers in Hatton Garden as she says that they have trade prices and compared to dealers in Hatton Garden her prices are better. I have received a few quotes from Dr Indira and they have all been much higher than the ones from Hatton Garden. Any way, they claim to have the best cushion cut diamonds, so I am hoping to go and meet her and see what she has in stock for us. I should actually start another topic with questions: Hatton Garden best experiences and Dr Indira....Would be nice to read what other people recommend.

Have you now finalised the design of your ring?
 
Do beware as me and the other half are also very risk averse long-term decision makers who wanted to view as many diamonds as possible and umm and err for days after seeing a particular stone.

Typically, a lot of the Hatton Garden clan (particularly "wholesalers") don't have much permanent stock as such, but wheel various diamonds around to each other on a daily basis as and when there may be customer demand. They take such diamonds "on approval" and can hand them back if the customer doesn't buy (as opposed to the wholesaler buying a diamond outright to show a customer, who may or may not take it). I think this approach is fine if you are prepared to spend a few weeks looking. Once you've seen enough diamonds, the right one will jump out at you and/or you'll be confident enough at least that there isn't anything manifestly wrong with it.

The ring design is still being considered! It will probably end up looking like a Tiffany Novo (no sidestones or halo, and with a thin diamond-melee band). We're looking at the possibility of buying some pink diamond melee to go in the band just to make it a bit different. I am sure pictures will go up on here at some point!
 
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