Cultural appropriation and imposters

[Begonia]

We have had a cluster of people misrepresenting themselves as First Nation's while being employed in high profile positions at Universities here in Canada. The latest has been claiming Metis, Anishnaabe and Tlingit heritage but it appears she has no blood kinship to any, altho she claims she was adopted by a Metis tribe while in her 20's. Her ancestry is from Russian settlers from the turn of the century. It appears she 'may' also be dying her hair black and tanning her skin. Her position was a First Nation's Health Representative with the Faculty of Medicine. Another claim of identifying with a culture but not having any true roots in that culture. A Rachel Dolezal if you will.

This baffles me.

I try to wrap my head around it, but can't. I had Chinese neighbors growing up, an elderly couple without children who treated my sister and I (the 2 youngest of 4), with great gentleness and love. I didn't have grandparents and these were the closest I had, in particular the elder gentleman named Mr. Wong. He used to come over every Sunday and sit at our table with my father, a mentally ill and abusive man. Mr. Wong would calm him and listen whilst enjoying a single bottle of beer with dad. We grew up listening to a few of his stories, but mostly watch him listening to my Dad. I had little extended family, but I look back and think of him with gratitude and love. They have both passed on. Am I Chinese? No. Was my grandfather Chinese? Yes. I think of him as my adopted Grandfather but I'm not appropriating his culture, altho we experienced much of it over the years with weddings (the brides many dresses!), funerals, potlucks, barbecues (oh the pork, a whole pig!).

We've taken so much from First Nation's Peoples, now we gotta steal their culture and identity as well?

What the f*ck?

 

[MrsBlue]

One would think that these frauds would have stopped by now but there's so many of them:

Jessica Krug

The True Story of Jess Krug, the White Professor Who Posed as Black for Years—Until It All Blew Up Last Fall - Washingtonian

"I am a coward." Jessica Krug’s confession started ricocheting across screens one brutally muggy afternoon in late-summer Washington. “For the better part of my adult life,” it began, “every move I’ve made, every relationship I’ve formed, has been rooted in the napalm toxic soil of lies.” Krug...

www.washingtonian.com

Natasha Lycia Ora Bannan

The National Lawyers Guild’s former first ‘Latina’ president is a white woman

For years, prominent human rights attorney Natasha Lycia Ora Bannan has positioned herself as an advocate for Latinx communities, most recently

prismreports.org

You loved and respected your Chinese honorary grandpa. These people do not love and respect the cultures they're fraudulently "representing". They're just doing it for attention and paychecks.

 

[737liz]

As someone of one ethnic grouping raised in a different one, the question of being, belonging, and defining ones self versus being defined by others is something i have to ponder on a regular basis; whenever I get the 'where are you from' question. My ethnic background is not my cultural upbringing. The prejudices I face are due to my external appearance. But i did not grow up with generational disadvantages. What do I qualify as when it comes to 'ticking a box'?

I think that in some cases, as above, it is clearly BS. But in others, it is really complex. I dug up an article I read about a man who spent his whole life defining himself as a black native american. Genetic testing revealed otherwise. Does this mean his whole life has been one exercise in appropriation? It was his truth.

 

[737liz]

Here are the articles

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.al...ace-in-the-us-what-if-your-identity-was-a-lie


And this one

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...native-american-dna-test-father-lied-heritage

 

[stracci2000]

These articles are very interesting.
I guess old family stories are to be taken with a grain of salt.
My DH is I/2 Native American.
His mother was full blooded, and raised on one of the Pueblos here in NM.
He has a certificate of Native blood from the tribe, which includes a family tree to prove ancestry. He also has a photo ID card.
The tribe is careful about who claims membership.
I find it fascinating that some people think that they must invent a more exciting heritage.
It's sad that others have been lied to.

 

[yssie]

If you ask me where I’m from I’ll say New Zealand. As nomadic as my parents were when I was growing up - we spent the most time in NZ (admittedly not by a large margin)… And NZ was the place I always called “home”.

If you ask me where my family is from I’ll say that I’m Indian. And I am - because that’s where both my parents were born, and their parents, and their parents, and their parents…

If you ask me where home is I’ll say that I’m American. That’s the most true thing that I can say. For all that I can and do recognize this country’s faults - I love it here and I can’t imagine living as happily anywhere else in this world. The US is my “home” now.

I’ve never lived in India. The longest I’ve ever spent there was six months, when I was nine years old. And I spent the entirety of that time miserable and desperate to get back home to NZ, to weather I understood and clothes I was comfortable in and food I recognized and classmates who didn’t think I acted weird and spoke funny. Outside of that… We would go to visit family for 3-4 weeks every other year. It was a holiday I looked both forward to and dreaded in right about equal parts.

I speak Tamil. Sort of. My vocabulary and mannerisms are what I heard at home - casual in address and full of slang. I’m fluent in NinetiesAndEarlyOughtsColloquialTamil.

When I was little whenever we went to India my thatha (grandfather) would take me to the market, because I loved to go, but would tell me to not say a word - I’d damn myself as foreign the moment I opened my mouth. Honestly though, even though I was dressed the same as everyone else… They somehow knew anyway and he always had to haggle the foreigner tax out of purchases he made with me tagging along.

As an adult - I avoid large gatherings of Indians because I feel completely out of place. I don’t identify with Indian culture or customs. I don’t even know about most Indian culture and customs - but I look like I should, so my ignorance is much less forgivable than my (white) husband’s. I call myself “Hindu” but whatever I do understand about that heritage I got from reading English versions of epic stories… And they resonate in pretty much the same ways as ancient Greek and Norse mythology: A great story but not MY story. I wouldn’t even have remembered Divali had I not gotten texts from friends who got sweets from their other Indian friends.

So if I, a person who was born to generations of Indians but who has never actually felt Indian, occasionally put on a sari and toddle to the temple with my parents because it makes them happy that I came… And I bow before god in the right places and I say the right prayers because I learnt them growing up… Am I appropriating a (my own?) culture? Or does my race entitle me to it? I certainly feel like a person who is inspired by the heritage and history of a specific culture and who is furthering that culture’s needs in modern society is being more *true* to that culture than I ever will be to India or Hinduism.

That’s not to say that Ms Krug and her ilk aren’t batsh*t. Definitely 100% batsh*t there. But… It’s a complicated topic, like @737liz said.

 

[AprilBaby]

I think each of us in some way appropriates other cultures. It could be skin tanning, hair coloring, dress… Outright stealing culture is wrong. Some people think they belong to a culture because it was told to them by family and had no reason to believe it not true. Then tests prove them wrong. You can’t fault them. When is it wrong and when is it right? I should embrace my very pale skin because it’s my culture. Funny how I look better tan. On the other hand many cultures bleach their skin to be whiter. My blonde hair is cultural but how many people bleach their hair to get mine? The kardashians try to look black With cornrows and darkening skin. Look at any fashion magazine and someone is appropriating culture.
@yessie, I get it. If I go to Sweden or Norway or Scotland can I pretend to be a member?

 

[Tartansparkles]

It's the idea of "membership" that saddens me. We seem to have created a society where we focus almost obsessively on difference and division. I would prefer if we could simply accept who each person is and share our cultures for the benefit and learning of all.

 

[Karl_K]

Cultures borrow from each other and have forever so to me Cultural appropriation is right up there near the top of the most stupid things I have ever heard.

The requirements that are based on race and not merit are racist.

Finally a Lie for personal gain is illegal, it is called fraud unless a highly placed person does it then its a mistake.

 

[yssie]

The requirements that are based on race and not merit are racist.

What is “merit” when we’re talking about culture - a set of values and philosophies to live by, dress norms, mythos, religious iconography and customs of worship?

Is someone “stupid” for being hurt by the discovery that what he believed was kinship with someone else who claimed to have grown up sharing his values and philosophies and dress norms and mythos and religious iconography and customs - was a lie?

I’ve never personally been in that position but I don’t need to be to answer “no”.

 

[Karl_K]

Is someone “stupid” for being hurt by the discovery that what he believed was kinship with someone else who claimed to have grown up sharing his values and philosophies and dress norms and mythos and religious iconography and customs - was a lie?

a: I never said anyone was stupid, i said the concept is stupid.
b: in the case in discussion it goes beyond friends not being honest with each other to being potentially fraud or in my state a crime of deceptive practice.
c: that a friend would lie to a friend would be hurtful but that is not the question asked.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

My husband is literally every race except aboriginal Australian. He identifies as Latino because that's the culture he grew up in, and his surname is Latin. But his DNA shows he's just as equally Native American, African and European, with smaller amounts of South Asian, East Asian and Ashkenazi Jewish. He is left feeling utterly confused by what box to check when he's asked to describe his race.

I had to fill out the US Census form for our household this past year because he was traveling with work. I remember texting him asking what box he wanted me to check and it stressed him out so much, we just decided to check all of them.

Race and ethnicity are so complex.

 

[seaurchin]

Re cultural appropriation, I'll just add that when you're in the majority culture or the mainstream on an issue, you should probably assume a lot is going over your head rather than think you're qualified to blow off the experience of those in minority cultures or others out of the mainstream, whose shoes you haven't walked in.

Which I say after having my eyes opened more than once on various issues, then cringing about my earlier clueless know-it-all-ness.

 

[cvalier26]

It matters for college admissions, politics,... so I don't find it difficult to understand why these people fraud, it's an awful way to gain an advantage.

I've had an issue where I grew up in a country I have no original roots in but that feels like "home" now.
On the other hand, I am very immersed into the culture of my ethnic minority, I speak the language, I know and like the customs,... it is spread across several countries, so I don't struggle identifying with that.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

It’s a complicated topic. Personally, I find the concept of cultural appropriation a bit weird, honestly, like - I want to share my culture with everybody! It doesn’t dilute it for me if someone wears a maangtikka and a sari and eats laddoos and kheer. On the contrary, it makes me happy to see others see the beauty and joy in the customs I grew up with and identify with strongly.

Im Indian. I’m loudly, proudly, ethnically and otherwise Indian. I don’t actually live in India, but the country I live in doesn’t make me “of that country”. That’s just where I live, one of my homes. But India will always be my primary home. One of the biggest frustrations for me living away from India has been people not really understanding my culture tbh, which is why I try to be “openly indian”. I’ve faced racism in all forms in the many countries I’ve lived and travelled in, and I’ve found that violent nutjobs aside, the best way to dispel ‘benign racism’ has been through the sharing of information and experience. It’s much harder to make fun of someone by putting on an Apu from the Simpsons accent when you see them as a human being and also, not that different from you despite having a completely different culture that welcomes you into the celebration and experience of the same. I would honestly love it if a non Indian friend of mine got dressed up in a sari and came with me to a temple. Intentions matter. There’s a big difference between doing so to support the culture or even from a place of open minded curiosity than doing so to secretly mock or question customs etc.

I think it becomes “appropriation” when people who do/wear/use things do it without a) knowledge of the culture or custom; b) in an ignorant/unflattering/stereotypical/insulting way; c) from a place of malice, deceptiveness, or for personal gain in some way. I can’t deny that it annoys me that the things Indian kids were made fun of growing up - like mehendi - are now fashionable; but if we just hide our culture in a cupboard and guard it jealously, no one benefits. We continue to other ourselves, continue to be round pegs in square holes, and continue to face racism both benign and targeted. The majority ethnic group is also sharing their culture with us, aren’t they? No one goes up in arms if you dance the flamenco without being Spanish, or grill burgers on 4th July without being American. I wore a dirndl for Oktoberfest when I attended, did anyone mind? It would be a problem if I wore it for Halloween, but none of my German friends have said anything other than “you look adorable” when I wore the dirndl.

If someone is pretending to be a race and culture that they aren’t, for personal gain, that is not okay. But that’s not cultural appropriation, that’s looney tunes behaviour.

 

[seaurchin]

Here's a basic rundown of what is meant by "cultural appropriation," if anyone is interested. It doesn't mean different cultures shouldn't pick things up from each other at all and other things that people might mistakenly believe. One obvious example is wearing blackface:

Your 101 Guide to Cultural Appropriation: What Is It & How to Avoid It

Cultural appropriation involves people adopting elements of a minority culture. Learn how such appropriation can be disrespectful and exploitative and how to avoid it.

www.verywellmind.com

 

[kenny]

.

Re cultural appropriation, I'll just add that when you're in the majority culture or the mainstream on an issue, you should probably assume a lot is going over your head rather than think you're qualified to blow off the experience of those in minority cultures or others out of the mainstream, whose shoes you haven't walked in.

Thank you.

*1000

ETA
However I also think, as mentioned by Karl, that it can get so extreme as to be stupid, yes stupid.
Like Karl I'm not calling any person stupid, just what they do, think, and expect.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I was born in Costa Rica and adopted to the USA as a toddler. I did a DNA test out of curiosity and am entirely Costa Rican (40% indigenous, 58% Iberian [colonizers]). I identify as culturally USAmerican and ethnically Latin American. When I'm in Costa Rica, everyone I meet knows I'm Costa Rican. Otherwise, I just let people assume what they want. I think having grown up in the USA, I'd feel personally uncomfortable expressing or identifying with or as indigenous (I'm not sure why, It's probably some bias I have toward the notion of appropriation).

 

[jaysonsmom]

I personally think people in the US and (perhaps Canada) have become overly sensitive, and political, and have blown up the idea of cultural appropriation. I agree with several previous posters in saying that unless it is used for self-gain (act of fraud), or done in mockery, it would not faze me if someone of a different ethnicity or culture "borrowed" from mine. I am the glass half full type of person, and try to think the best of people's intentions. Also, I also believe imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

This brings me back to a news article about a high school girl who was called out for cultural appropriation by a bunch of Asian American political groups for wearing a Chi-pao/ Chongsam (Chinese dress to her prom), because she was not Chinese!
Chinese prom dress
As a Chinese/Japanese-American myself, with a Korean-American husband, I saw no harm in her wearing a beautiful Asian dress, and showing her appreciation of Asian culture. I flattered that she borrowed from my culture, and looked to beautiful wearing that look.

As for other things that have become really popular in the US, such as sushi, or Anime, and K-pop, or Korean Dramas, negative people can call all of that cultural appropriation, but I choose to see all of these as cultural appreciation, and not appropriation. People need to lighten up!

 

[seaurchin]

I agree that there will always be the fringe lunatic or dum-dum group on any issue but that doesn't mean the issue itself, correctly defined, is nonexistent or trivial.

 

[GliderPoss]

I think @AllAboardTheBlingTrain described it perfectly

“I think it becomes “appropriation” when people who do/wear/use things do it without a) knowledge of the culture or custom; b) in an ignorant/unflattering /stereotypical/insulting way; c) from a place of malice, deceptiveness, or for personal gain in some way.”

We were always raised to be believe you are where you were born not necessarily where you live ie. I was born in Oz therefore I am Australian even if I lived overseas. If pressed further I could say my grandparents are British. As an adult now I can see how much more complex this topic is!

I read a newspaper article recently which stated similar cases of people discovered in positions of power (usually universities) claiming to be “Aboriginal/Indigenous” but with no proof, their claims turned out to be false & often even rejected by their own alleged mob. Frankly it’s a slap in the face for Aboriginals/Indigenous peoples who have fought for higher education & recognition in academia for years…