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Crown variance question

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caligirl08

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
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38
Psers,

Can you please tell me if 33.4 - 36 is too much variance in crown angles? I have no idea, but came across a couple of posts this morning that now have me nervous.

I tried to look for information on PS earlier today and it looks like it depends on the measurements of opposing angles (?)
I don''t have this information, but can request it from the vendor.

Thanks in advance for your time :)
 
sounds like a bad scan have them redo it.
Do you have an IS image?
 
thanks for your reply. i do have an idealscope- i''ll look for it and will post it.

i''m confused though... if it was a bad scan, would the average still come up the same as what the GIA says the avg. crown angle is?

And the PS vendor said it runs the tests so it can verify if it''s a good diamond or not prior to shipping it- i''m thinking that if it was a bad scan and the numbers seemed off, they would have caught it, right?

thanks again.
 
Date: 8/22/2008 6:20:43 PM
Author:caligirl08
Psers,

Can you please tell me if 33.4 - 36 is too much variance in crown angles? I have no idea, but came across a couple of posts this morning that now have me nervous.

I tried to look for information on PS earlier today and it looks like it depends on the measurements of opposing angles (?)
I don''t have this information, but can request it from the vendor.

Thanks in advance for your time :)
Click to expand...
If there is a similar variation in the pavilion angle, and the stone is not way out of round it could be OK

Please give us ALL the info, not just s tip
 
thanks Gary. Here is more info.
1.6 ct
diameter dev. .4%
53.8% table
61.9% depth
crown angle 34.5 (33.4- 36)
pavilion angle 40.6 (39.9- 41.3)
pav. depth 42.7%
crown height: 16%
cutlet .4%
girdle: thin to slightly thick
star/upper ratio: 50:50
lower girdle halves: 80%
 
IS image please.
 
Wow, that''s all over the place.
40.gif
Either diamond is seriously wonky, the table is tilted or improper/dirty scan.
 
if this is the same stone will look good
 
Rhino-

Should the vendor have noticed that the numbers are off?

I was relying on their expertise and would hope they would''ve noticed if something didn''t look right...

Maybe I can ask if they can rescan (?)

thanks again.
 
Date: 8/23/2008 12:11:27 PM
Author: caligirl08
Rhino-


Should the vendor have noticed that the numbers are off?


I was relying on their expertise and would hope they would''ve noticed if something didn''t look right...


Maybe I can ask if they can rescan (?)


thanks again.
Click to expand...
Ask them to rescan it, you can also ask to talk to Brian about it.
 
Is this the diamond that you want to return to WF?
 
Date: 8/23/2008 12:11:27 PM
Author: caligirl08
Rhino-

Should the vendor have noticed that the numbers are off?

I was relying on their expertise and would hope they would''ve noticed if something didn''t look right...

Maybe I can ask if they can rescan (?)

thanks again.
Click to expand...
It depends caligirl. Different vendors look at different criteria for what they will and will not suggest. Some just look at IS/ASET images and while that is helpful, it does not tell the whole story. Variances or Deviations in the faceting (the subject you are raising) does happen to be a feature I keep my eyes peeled on and consider in our own decisions. Its one reason amongst others why we provide Helium Reports.

Peace,
 
Date: 8/23/2008 12:11:27 PM
Author: caligirl08
Rhino-

Should the vendor have noticed that the numbers are off?

I was relying on their expertise and would hope they would''ve noticed if something didn''t look right...

Maybe I can ask if they can rescan (?)

thanks again.
Click to expand...
Some people in the trade buy by #''s, most by price and others by how the diamond looks.
This one looks great - the other info is there, but it does not mean much in this case.

If you want to learn more read here - http://www.gemology.ru/cut/english/symmetry/6.htm
The first case was the example that led to OctoNus Theory and is part of the Helium scanner software that Rhino referred to.
That actual stone had GIA Good sym. It too was a very nice stone.
 
If it is not a mistake while scanning (operator not paying attention), I would compare this stone to a cake that is not perfectly looking, but which tastes just as great. It will not be served in a top-restaurant, but you will enjoy it very much.

Live long,
 
It may be that the table is not perfectly parallel to the girdle. The crown and pavilion angles are the angles between the girdle plane and the respective main facets but the way the Sarin scanners work is to measure the angle from the table to the various facets and it assumes that the table and girdle are parallel. This is not necessarily the case and when it’s off it produces results like you are seeing where one side is reported to be higher than reality and the opposing side is the same amount lower. The average always comes out right. In your case it looks to be off by about a degree.

The IS image is taken from above and it’s aligned by hand based on the visual appearance of the arrows and the culet. In effect, it’s being arranged to minimize the differences in the pavilion mains by putting the culet in the center of the girdle outline.

This is not a serious problem and 1 degree is quite small. Well below what you can see without tools and the IS image is actually a better way of seeing the pavilion geometry than the Sarin is. If it gets significant, say 3 degrees, you’ll see a downgrade in symmetry on the grading report over it.

A small piece of dust under one side of the table that causes the tilt during the scan can have the same affect and this is the scanning problem that’s being discussed.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Cali~if I am misunderstanding your intentions, I sincerely apologize. You have posted several times about wanting to return your diamond to WF, although it is past the return period. Your mother has offered you her diamond and you wish to use it instead and save your bf from spending his savings account on the WF diamond. It seems as if you are now trying to find fault with this diamond in order to return it. I understand your disappointment, but Leslie and Alj have already posted their responses on this forum. Again, if I have misinterpreted your intentions, I am sorry, but this does seem to be more than a coincidence.

 
Thank you so much for your replies. Neil, I appreciate your input and explanation.

Marian: you are correct about my previous posts and the situation, but I think you should give people- myself included- the benefit of the doubt. I am not looking for flaws here- I think my question was pretty legitimate, especially given that more than one vendor said it looked like a bad scan (and why is it wrong to expect that the vendor would have noticed and re-scanned?).
 
Cali~You have started numerous threads about returning this diamond to WF. You have had other posters comment on your threads. I know you don't think it is fair, but this thread is not fair to the professionals who are responding and don't know the reason you are asking these questions. You have been given the benefit of the doubt many times, but these types of threads are not helping you, IMHO.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendors-psers-brainteaser-for-you-am-i-just-stupid.93619/
 
Date: 8/26/2008 9:19:29 AM
Author: risingsun
Cali~You have started numerous threads about returning this diamond to WF. You have had other posters comment on your threads. I know you don''t think it is fair, but this thread is not fair to the professionals who are responding and don''t know the reason you are asking these questions. You have been given the benefit of the doubt many times, but these types of threads are not helping you, IMHO.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/vendors-psers-brainteaser-for-you-am-i-just-stupid.93619/
Click to expand...

36.gif
 

The stone looks great to me, and you should be happy with it. I think this basically comes down to beating your head against a wall, and making the situation worse by continuing. Unfortunatley almost everyone 99.9999% of people on this site have had incredible experiences with Whiteflash, but there will always be some that cannot be happy no matter what the outcome. They have offered solutions and customer service (as seen in the other threads), just not the one you want. Unfortunately they are running a business, and they also have to look out for themselves while providing the utmost in customer service that they are known for.


Im sorry about your situation, but this company does not hide things to sell product, and the professionals on this site that give great advice will not be able to say anything that will change the return policy that WF has posted on their site, its basically that simple. Sorry you''re going through this, but move on and appreciate or sell the nice stone that you have.

 
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