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njkreger

Rough_Rock
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Oct 27, 2009
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Hi, my girlfriend is interested in a princess cut 1/2 carat stone for her engagement ring. We are both also interested in buying a conflict free diamond, and James Allen is one of the only places I know of that has a decent selection at reasonable prices. Anyhow, I''ve been perusing the forums here and found basic ideas as to what to look for in terms of table, depth, etc. Here is one that I found that I was hoping someone might be able to provide some input or advice:

0.53 Carat F-VS2 Ideal Cut Princess

My budget is fairly limited at about $1,500 for the whole deal. Anyhow, any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Nate
 
Date: 10/28/2009 3:45:02 AM
Author:njkreger
Hi, my girlfriend is interested in a princess cut 1/2 carat stone for her engagement ring. We are both also interested in buying a conflict free diamond, and James Allen is one of the only places I know of that has a decent selection at reasonable prices. Anyhow, I've been perusing the forums here and found basic ideas as to what to look for in terms of table, depth, etc. Here is one that I found that I was hoping someone might be able to provide some input or advice:

0.53 Carat F-VS2 Ideal Cut Princess

My budget is fairly limited at about $1,500 for the whole deal. Anyhow, any help would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Nate
Click to expand...
Hi njkreger

The diamond looks ok, I would ask for an ASET image for the stone and also a Sarin report to get the crown height. If you could post that info here when you have it then we can go from there.

All the vendors sell only conflict free diamonds FYI. Also what standard of cut quality are you looking for? The best cut you can get? The term Ideal Cut used to describe this diamond doesn't actually mean the stone is of top cut quality as it is not, but it might be a decently cut stone, an ASET would tell us more.
 
I have requested the data and will post whatever I receive. I also have been looking at diamonds from Excel Diamonds, and have requested data on two of them which I will post as well. I was unaware that the vendors here sell conflict free diamonds as I can''t recall them mentioning it on their websites. Anyhow, thanks for the info and help!
 
Date: 10/28/2009 9:10:29 AM
Author: njkreger
I have requested the data and will post whatever I receive. I also have been looking at diamonds from Excel Diamonds, and have requested data on two of them which I will post as well. I was unaware that the vendors here sell conflict free diamonds as I can't recall them mentioning it on their websites. Anyhow, thanks for the info and help!
Click to expand...


This article will be helpful and for any vendor you might consider doing business with - just ask them whether their diamonds are conflict free, they should be happy to show you they are Kimberley Process compliant and provide you with the following statement or similar.

The diamonds herein invoiced have been purchased from legitimate sources not involved in funding conflict and in compliance with United Nations Resolutions. The seller hereby guarantees that these diamonds are conflict free, based on personal knowledge and/or written guarantees provided by the supplier of these diamonds.

This quote from expert John Pollard might also be helpful.

"The status quo... In North America you can buy with high confidence.

The Kimberly Process has dramatically reduced the scope of the issue since the 1990s. Many estimates put rough touched by conflict at less than 1 percent today. But the global diamond industry is vast. Greed is not exclusive to Africa, and rogue elements trade rough of dubious origin where they can. Kimberly Process fraud was uncovered in Brazil and Guyana in 2006. Venezuela was sanctioned in 2007 and earlier this year was actually expelled from KPCS participation (story). Border controls are tighter in North America, especially post 9/11, but some possibility of corruption in the system exists, even in Canada where “conflict-free” is a national marketing slogan (CDCC). The good news is that Kimberley and Global Witness have estimated that 99.8% of the world’s diamonds are conflict free. Still, unless you walked the diamond yourself from mine to sorting to trading house to cutting factory to parcel buyer to retail outlet, nothing can be 100 percent certain.



Responsible manufacturers and retailers do their utmost to protect clients and themselves. We purchase our own rough at tender in accordance with strict regulations and select our partners with great care. We know the leaders of our primary trading houses and their commitment to the process of certification. Every diamond brought in is accompanied by written conflict-free guarantees and certification from people committed to the process. We have joined hands and do everything in our power to guarantee our diamonds’ conflict-free provenance, just as our downstream retailers and their conscientious peers do.



What can consumers do to avoid “conflict diamonds?” Neil Beaty penned a journal article with intelligent consumer options. I would add the suggestion to be proactive. As a shopper you can test a retailer’s awareness and commitment to the issue. These four questions are suggested by NGOs Amnesty International and Global Witness:



1. How can I be sure that none of your jewelry contains conflict diamonds?
2. Do you know where the diamonds you sell come from?
3. Can I see a copy of your company’s policy on conflict diamonds?
4. Can you show me a written guarantee from your diamond suppliers stating that your diamonds are conflict-free?

Remember that "conflict-free" just scratches the surface of the issue though. The industry works hard to ensure conflict-free provenance for the end-user and for many consumers that is enough. The only drawback is that it overlooks the real issue which is those who still suffer where resources are rich and people are poor - not only over diamonds but rubies, oil, gold, coltan and, historically, rubber, cocoa, even coffee.



As jewelry companies and consumers we can’t change governments or politics, but we can create commerce and benevolence to help those people. UNICEF is active in Africa. Development diamond initiatives are being developed over time. Closer to home on PS, Whiteflash launched an initiative some years ago with the WCCCI as their chosen charity partner to bring relief to chidren suffering in Africa. Our company is participating in the JVC’s Patriot Act Compliance program in concert with, and on-behalf-of, our authorized Infinity retailers.



Beyond the protectionist work Kimberly Process, the Patriot Act, NGOs and the CRJP are doing, we believe there must be people-centered answers to help actual humans without industry or red tape in the way. In all of this, consumer awareness is a key component to making a difference. "
John
 
Sorry, I forgot to answer your other questions...I''m looking for the best cut I can get at about 0.50 carat, give or take a couple points. Again, my budget is about $1,500, and I was planning on a white gold solitaire setting. So, that leaves about $1,000-$1,100 for the diamond. Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.


P.S., Jim from James Allen (who seems very nice btw) contacted me and he will provide the ASET images in the next day or two.
 
Date: 10/28/2009 10:39:26 AM
Author: njkreger
Sorry, I forgot to answer your other questions...I''m looking for the best cut I can get at about 0.50 carat, give or take a couple points. Again, my budget is about $1,500, and I was planning on a white gold solitaire setting. So, that leaves about $1,000-$1,100 for the diamond. Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate it.


P.S., Jim from James Allen (who seems very nice btw) contacted me and he will provide the ASET images in the next day or two.
Click to expand...
Ok sounds fine, Jim is a great guy so glad you got along well with him, post the images when you get them and we will take a look.
 
Here''s the first one from James Allen with attached ASET:

Shape: Princess
Carat weight: 0.53
Cut: Ideal
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 74.0%
Table: 71.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.32*4.31*3.19
Ratio: 1.00

1261393 ASET.jpg
 
And the second from James Allen:

Shape: Princess
Carat weight: 0.57
Cut: Ideal
Color: F
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 73.7%
Table: 71.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Girdle: Medium to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 4.56*4.48*3.30
Ratio: 1.02

1264450 ASET.jpg
 
Prefer the 2nd JA stone''s ASET.
 
Can you also post the actual pics of the stones?
 
The best I can do right now is the "Real Diamond Image" that you can select when you click the following links:

0.53 Carat

0.57 Carat

Any thoughts about the two diamonds from Excel? If you click on those links there are ASET, IdealScope, and a picture.

Let me know!
 
I fear that the ASET''s are not in line with the actual pics. I would ask JA to re-check.

Live long,
 
Date: 10/28/2009 5:08:47 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I fear that the ASET''s are not in line with the actual pics. I would ask JA to re-check.


Live long,
Click to expand...

Paul,

From where do you draw that conclusion? I can have Sara (our newest G.G.) reshoot the diamonds in the morning, but I''m pretty sure we''re looking at the right images, photographed to AGS standards.
 
Date: 10/28/2009 6:55:45 PM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 10/28/2009 5:08:47 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I fear that the ASET''s are not in line with the actual pics. I would ask JA to re-check.


Live long,
Click to expand...
Paul,

From where do you draw that conclusion? I can have Sara (our newest G.G.) reshoot the diamonds in the morning, but I''m pretty sure we''re looking at the right images, photographed to AGS standards.
Click to expand...
Hi Jim,

Looked at the images in detail again. I can see that the pics on the second stone are from the same stone, the pics on the first stone are very hard to correlate. I think that somebody made a mistake there.

More importantly, when comparing actual pic with ASET, one sees that many dark areas in the actual pic turn green in the ASET. The most logical reason is a classic mistake in photographing the ASET, which is mainly seen in princess-cuts. Even the AGS photo-setup invites to make that mistake, I am afraid.

But thinking about it more, it could also be the setup of the actual pic. Again, this is a classic mistake, most visible in princess-cuts, and it would mean that the actual diamond is brighter than the picture shows.

Live long,
 
Date: 10/29/2009 6:56:34 AM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

But thinking about it more, it could also be the setup of the actual pic. Again, this is a classic mistake, most visible in princess-cuts, and it would mean that the actual diamond is brighter than the picture shows.


Live long,
Click to expand...
Hi Paul,
Having studied and compared JA pictures to IS images for a long time now the conclusion I have came to is the photo setup has about 2x the head shadow of is/aset and little to no side lighting.
This shows up most in step cuts and in princess cuts.
Indeed green areas in ASET images will often show up as dark gray under it and sometimes black.


http://www.daroscope.com/
 
Date: 10/28/2009 6:55:45 PM
Author: James Allen Schultz

Date: 10/28/2009 5:08:47 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp
I fear that the ASET''s are not in line with the actual pics. I would ask JA to re-check.


Live long,
Click to expand...

Paul,

From where do you draw that conclusion? I can have Sara (our newest G.G.) reshoot the diamonds in the morning, but I''m pretty sure we''re looking at the right images, photographed to AGS standards.
Click to expand...
Dear James,

This is about the 5th or 6th thread I have seen where comments like this are made. I myself commented on your websites out of of focus or poorly lit ASETS when looking at pears previously as well.
I think it would serve your purposes much better to spend some time working on the lighting and focus on both your ASET and photograph setup instead of trying to defend the poor images.
Even assuming you are right more than one poster here even in this thread with good intentions has had trouble getting the information the poster needs from the posted images.

I do look through images on your site from time ot time to try to find choices for posters here and the dark images and poor contrast make it very difficult to recommend your stones at times.
I hope threads like these serve as a wakeup call that some improvement is needed, you have great prices and from what I have read good service as well it would be a shame to continue to have these issues.

Also regarding ASET I would suggest a tabletop white background ASET as the results show leakage a lot more clearly and it seems to give more consistent images as taken within the sealed chamber which has a better controlled lighting setup.

Best Regards,

CCL
 
Date: 10/29/2009 11:39:52 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

I think it would serve your purposes much better to spend some time working on the lighting and focus on both your ASET and photograph setup instead of trying to defend the poor images.
Click to expand...

CCL,

Rest assured, we have been working on both lighting and focus and made great improvements in the images. We actually spent several hours last week working directly with AGS to get the ASET machine recalibrated and back to standard. According to AGS, the images that are now being produced by the camera are correct. I would also point out that we are using the camera system developed and sold by AGS. This is not our equipment - it''s theirs. I will contact them again today, however, and let them know that while we seem to have resolved the primary issue of poor color distribution, the images themselves are still overly dark.
 
Date: 10/29/2009 11:12:03 AM
Author: Karl_K

Hi Paul,

Having studied and compared JA pictures to IS images for a long time now the conclusion I have came to is the photo setup has about 2x the head shadow of is/aset and little to no side lighting.

This shows up most in step cuts and in princess cuts.

Indeed green areas in ASET images will often show up as dark gray under it and sometimes black.



http://www.daroscope.com/
Click to expand...

Karl,

We do not use the Daroscope for the ASET images. We use the AGS turnkey camera system that includes both the camera and the ASET viewer.
 
Date: 10/29/2009 11:58:32 AM
Author: James Allen Schultz
Date: 10/29/2009 11:12:03 AM

Author: Karl_K


Hi Paul,


Having studied and compared JA pictures to IS images for a long time now the conclusion I have came to is the photo setup has about 2x the head shadow of is/aset and little to no side lighting.


This shows up most in step cuts and in princess cuts.


Indeed green areas in ASET images will often show up as dark gray under it and sometimes black.




http://www.daroscope.com/
Click to expand...


Karl,


We do not use the Daroscope for the ASET images. We use the AGS turnkey camera system that includes both the camera and the ASET viewer.
Click to expand...
Hi Jim,
I know that.
I don't have a problem interpreting the regular pictures once I figured them out. I just have to take into account the head shadow. I was explaining my findings to help others interpret them.
I should have made it clearer I was talking about the regular pictures.

The new ASET images are much improved.
 
Date: 10/29/2009 12:18:44 PM
Author: Karl_K

Hi Jim,

I know that.

I don''t have a problem interpreting the regular pictures once I figured them out. I just have to take into account the head shadow. I was explaining my findings to help others interpret them.

I should have made it clearer I was talking about the regular pictures.


The new ASET images are much improved.
Click to expand...

Thank you Karl for the clarification. I''ve made our contact at AGS aware of this thread and asked them to review both the images as well as Paul''s comments to see if we can fully resolve this issue.
 
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