Contacting Lawyers re: Law School

[HopeDream]

Hi, I think I''ve been drinking the PS koolaid again, because now I''m thinking about Law school.

What is the best way to get lawyers to talk about what''s it like being a lawyer, and what are important questions I should ask if they grant me an interview?
I know the best thing to do would to try and get a job working at a law office, but my town is small and the labour market is saturated.

Should I write a letter of introduction?

Advice from Canadian lawyers/law students would be especialy helpful.

Thanks!

 

[Bella_mezzo]

I''m sure others will chime in, but the job market for lawyers in the US is horrible! I am pretty sure it''s having problems world wide. I''d be sure that you really want to do this before investing time and money into it, b/c odds are good you won''t be able to get a great job after graduation.

Sorry to be such a debbie downer

 

[HopeDream]

No worries Bella, reality checks are important. I think there are a fair number of lawyers out there who are of my parent''s generation and are about to retire soon, so I think I can get a job in the next 10-15 years. I wouldn''t mind working as a policy advisor, consultant, paralegal, etc. either and then working my way up slowly.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/11/2010 2:12:56 PM
Author:HopeDream
Hi, I think I've been drinking the PS koolaid again, because now I'm thinking about Law school.


What is the best way to get lawyers to talk about what's it like being a lawyer, and what are important questions I should ask if they grant me an interview?

I know the best thing to do would to try and get a job working at a law office, but my town is small and the labour market is saturated.


Should I write a letter of introduction?



Advice from Canadian lawyers/law students would be especialy helpful.



Thanks!

I graduated in 2009 and have been working the past year as a "Student at Law" as we do in Canada (a.k.a Articling Student). I work in a small-to-mid-sized firm in a smaller city in Alberta. I went to law school in my home province (not Alberta). I had a job lined up in my hometown but moved here for various reasons, including for the job here as it was a better fit for me lifestyle wise, and career preferences wise.

I would be inclined to refer you to lawbuzz.ca but overall they are a bit cynical there about the practice of law (not sure any of them enjoy it) so skip that. They also tend to be pretty cynical about some of the law schools out there with a major bias towards Osgoode and the like. Again, not all of them, but there is a vibe there. There are many great schools out there in Canada - we do NOT work on the tier system like in the US, so don't buy into that. Find a school that fits for YOU. Some schools emphasize practical learning, others focus on corporate law, etc. lawstudents.ca has people considering going into it...but not many people who are in law school or are lawyers chime in there. Just lots of people trying to get into it and so on.

I'd make sure you had a pretty good idea about what law is about, and whether it is for you, before going to law school. I took a few years off between my undergrad and law school as I was not really sure if it was for me. After a few years, I realized it was, and was a both a lot more focused...and a lot more laid back, when I went back to school.

Anyway, there is a LOT of variation in what you can do with a law degree. So, you need to sort of put the feelers out and talk to different people. The cynical and jaded as well as those who, after 50 years, still don't want to retire as they enjoy it so much (they are out there!). Put a call or email into some local lawyers.

My advice is...be open to the various avenues that law can offer. Many on their first day of 1L come in saying they are going to practice "A", by 3L they are going to practice "F" and by the 5th year of practice (which is where my principal says people tend to be comfortable enough to find their groove) they are at "E". I practice "A", "F", "E" and a whole lot of other letters right now. So, be flexible and open....!

If you want to get INTO a law office to get some direct experience with working there...it may be tough to do. Most assistants have some paralegal/legal assistant training. The ones that work here have YEARS of experience as they really had to be pretty well-versed in procedures and so forth. I consider my assistant a teammate in that respect! And summer jobs go to law students, as there are some things that law students are allowed to do that non-law student people aren't (i.e. appear in court). You may want to see if someone will let you volunteer. But, even then, you won't get much direct experience with what it is like. I have known lots of lawyers. I have worked with lots of lawyers. It is very different working as one.

 

[RaiKai]

Oh, and the job market in Canada is not as hard hit as the U.S.

It is a bit tougher.....lots of the big firms that generally hire dozens of new graduates for their articles hired a lot less (or none) the last year or two, or tell them from the start most of them won't be kept on now (they used to keep almost all of them.....but there are still a lot of jobs out there. Law is always a bit competitive, but the market is still fairly strong.

A lot of smaller centers have a hard time finding students/young lawyers too and would love a new graduate.

Out of my class of 96, all but a very small handful found positions right out of school.

So, yes, it is a bit MORE competitive to find a position, but it has always been that way. It is not in dire straights, at least not outside the big firms (who were a bit overstaffed perhaps to begin with).

That being said, I would still make sure it is something you really want to do before you do it. It's a lot of money (and time) to invest if you aren't that sure about it. I'll be paying off my student loans for a LOT of years...and while I love my job...there are people who are working at jobs they hate because they feel hamstrung by the loan repayments and just cannot afford to take something that pays less.

 

[lucyandroger]

I would just send the attorneys a short email explaining your interest in law school and asking them if they have time for a short meeting or to grab coffee. I would only reach out to attorneys that you have some connection to though (attended same undergrad, practicing in the type of law you're interested in, etc.)

If I got such an email and the person seemed genuine, I would definitely make time to talk to the them.

ETA - I suggest email because responding to a physical letter might be seen as cumbersome and therefore, they wouldn't do it or they would put it off. Responding to an email is quick and doesn't take much effort.

 

[HopeDream]

Raikai: Thank you for your excellent advice! It''s good to know that it''s best to pick a school that''s a good fit. I have no preconcieved notions of what branch of the law I would fit best in, and expect i''ll figure it out in school depending on what I''m interested in.

I''m quite analytical minded (science background) and I''ve just glanced at the types of questions on an LSAT and they look quite fun - so I hope I''m heading in the right direction.
I enjoy research, office work and fillling out forms. I find the prospect of working on a series of cases/briefs/contracts appealing (as opposed to one long stretch of the same thing). I tend to speak with a voice of authority and people listen to me (if that makes any sence). In my free time I enjoy logic puzzle games, finding out facts about things and detective novels.

I have taken a couple of breaks during my school career, and am currently taking a year off post-undergrad to think about what I want to do next. I should take a Master''s but I can''t think of anything I''m interested in enough to do a full-on research study of. Law school is sounding more and more like a fun and exciting challenge.

I''m not too worried about finding work as every place I''ve worked has liked me enough to hire me again the next year/years, so I''m sure I''ll make good connections during summer jobs.

I''ll ask my dad if he knows any lawyers.

Lucyandroger: Hmm, I hadn''t thought of email - it seems so informal, but maybe I should send out some emails.

 

[Octavia]

On the whole, lawyers love to talk about themselves, especially if you''re not asking them to do anything else!

(I can say that because I''m almost one...and it''s true). I agree with lucyandroger that you should research where they went to undergrad and reach out to alums of your school, that''s usually a great icebreaker. Sometimes their bios will also say if they had a career before law, and that can be helpful, too -- I once chatted with an attorney who had worked in fundraising prior to law school, as I did, and it felt much more natural than some conversations I had with other lawyers I had nothing in common with. But DON''T ask for a job, at least not to start. That''s a good way to turn people off, especially if they think it''s just going to be an informational interview and you overstep that line. Just ask them to talk about what they do, how they got there, if their careers took any interesting twists or turns along the way, what advice they have to offer you about applying to schools and career prospects afterward, etc. If the person really likes you, they''ll send leads your way of their own accord.

Good luck!

 

[monkeyprincess]

I''m going to give you some advice that I wish someone had given to me before I went to law school. Do not go to law school unless and until you have a clear understanding of what you want to do when you finish your degree, and you have determined the sacrifices you will make are worth it. Sure law school is fun and interesting, but after three years, reality hits. You have acquired loans, your perspective of the world has changed and you have become more cynical, and you have to work long hours if you want to succeed. On top of that, as others have said, the job market just isn''t what it used to be. I cannot tell you how many of my former classmates and current colleagues have said they would not have gone to law school if they knew what they were getting into. I''m not saying this to discourage you. If there is a career in law that you truly want and have a realistic goal of how to get there, then by all means, go for it. I just want you to go into it realistically and not think it is the right decision for you just because you are assertive and like to do logic puzzles. I think you are being very smart in wanting to meet with lawyers. I suggest you try to meet with younger attorneys to get a realistic idea of what law practice will be like.

 

[RaiKai]

Date: 5/11/2010 4:20:57 PM
Author: monkeyprincess
I'm going to give you some advice that I wish someone had given to me before I went to law school. Do not go to law school unless and until you have a clear understanding of what you want to do when you finish your degree, and you have determined the sacrifices you will make are worth it. Sure law school is fun and interesting, but after three years, reality hits. You have acquired loans, your perspective of the world has changed and you have become more cynical, and you have to work long hours if you want to succeed. On top of that, as others have said, the job market just isn't what it used to be. I cannot tell you how many of my former classmates and current colleagues have said they would not have gone to law school if they knew what they were getting into. I'm not saying this to discourage you. If there is a career in law that you truly want and have a realistic goal of how to get there, then by all means, go for it. I just want you to go into it realistically and not think it is the right decision for you just because you are assertive and like to do logic puzzles. I think you are being very smart in wanting to meet with lawyers. I suggest you try to meet with younger attorneys to get a realistic idea of what law practice will be like.

Yes, I would agree with this.

I love what I do (most days anyway....I have my moments!)....but I was also very aware beforehand of what it really was about and had adjusted my expectations accordingly! There was not much fantasy involved.

I also would not say I personally became more cynical. I had worked a few years beforehand and had a few life experiences...so was at a point in my life where reality had already hit...and I was past the cynicism! Though, I can still be cynical at times...it's really not due to law school or law.

I also am very fortunate where I work. While there are crunch times before hearings where I put in longer hours, it is not that bad the majority of the time and I rarely work weekends or past 5. I have a lot of work, but no quota for hours set by others (I can determine my own), but have a great support system here. However, this was by design. I actively searched for a firm that really emphasized work-life balance AND family. Everyone of the partners here is married and has family's (the originals...ha) so really does practice what they preach (or preach what they practice?). Families are included in activities and so on (i.e. spouses are invited to annual retreats/trips....my DH was invited even before he was my DH...and so on). They only hire new people every few years when they have room...with the intention they will become a partner in a few years. I also had to move provinces to find what I was looking for. And, I do get paid less than many of my peers. But that was a satisfactory trade off for me.

I feel incredibly fortunate....but it was also not by luck. I knew very clearly what I wanted and what sort of environment I wanted to work in and worked hard to find it.

There were so many...MANY....of my fellow classmates who were in law school for reasons such as...their parents were paying for it...or they knew they could not get a job with a B.A....or they did not want to start working yet.....I know as in the first few days of 1L the prof's would ask us to introduce ourselves and why we were there.

I would be surprised if many of them are still working in a few years. The attrition rate for lawyers is pretty high, and 5 years after call a lot of them have left. Especially women. Law school classes are about 50-50 male and female...yet by the 5th year post-grad it's more like 75-25.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 5/11/2010 3:20:13 PM
Author: HopeDream

I have taken a couple of breaks during my school career, and am currently taking a year off post-undergrad to think about what I want to do next. I should take a Master''s but I can''t think of anything I''m interested in enough to do a full-on research study of. Law school is sounding more and more like a fun and exciting challenge.


Lucyandroger: Hmm, I hadn''t thought of email - it seems so informal, but maybe I should send out some emails.

Re the first part - It sounds like you''re thinking law school because you don''t know what else to do. I''ve found that''s one of the main reasons people go to law school and it is 100% the WRONG reason. FI and I both regret going to law school and we are lucky enough to have high-paying, reasonably secure jobs. We joke all the time that we paid for a quarter of a million dollar match-making service since we met at law school and it''s the one reason we can''t say that if we went back we would do something else.

Anyway, about email. I thought you were looking to set up informal conversations to discuss what being a lawyer is really like? You''re not asking for a job are you?

In any case, most of my communication is done by email and that includes with federal regulators, opposing counsel, etc. I guarantee you email is the best way to contact young attorneys.

 

[Indylady]

Date: 5/11/2010 3:49:38 PM
Author: Octavia
On the whole, lawyers love to talk about themselves, especially if you''re not asking them to do anything else!

(I can say that because I''m almost one...and it''s true). I agree with lucyandroger that you should research where they went to undergrad and reach out to alums of your school, that''s usually a great icebreaker. Sometimes their bios will also say if they had a career before law, and that can be helpful, too -- I once chatted with an attorney who had worked in fundraising prior to law school, as I did, and it felt much more natural than some conversations I had with other lawyers I had nothing in common with. But DON''T ask for a job, at least not to start. That''s a good way to turn people off, especially if they think it''s just going to be an informational interview and you overstep that line. Just ask them to talk about what they do, how they got there, if their careers took any interesting twists or turns along the way, what advice they have to offer you about applying to schools and career prospects afterward, etc. If the person really likes you, they''ll send leads your way of their own accord.


Good luck!

Too funny! I went to a law school interview with an alumni. The interview lasted a little over 2 hours, and I probably spoke for all of 20 minutes.

 

[HopeDream]

Thank you for the responses!

Octavia - Thanks for the heads up on not inquiring about employment. I certainly don't want to close any doors. I will ask about lawyer's pre-law backgrounds.

Monkeyprincess - Yes, I won't step into this lightly, or head blindly off on a whim. Knowing nothing about law I think I want to end up doing something steady and useful like drawing up wills or putting together real estate contracts. I'm not having kids and have already had experience putting in 12-14 hour days for weeks at a time working on research projects.

Raikai - I understand the trade-offs between pay and quality of life. You're lucky to be with a firm that is so dedicated to work life balance! You said you were aware before hand of what it was all about - Where did you find out? Relatives that were lawyers? I imagine there would be a high drop out rate in such a competative and stressful career.

Lucyandroger - Don't worry I'm not simply going to law school by default. I'm very much in the process of trying to find out about what being a lawyer is and isn't and what it's all about before I make any firm decisions.

Indylady - Wow that must have been some interview!

I'm hearing a lot of "Don't go to law school unless it's realy what you want to do." - Ok fair enough. How do you figure out if being a lawyer is the thing to do ? I have a good while to think about it, as at the very soonest I would apply for september 2011 intakes.

 

[Porridge]

HopeDream, I don''t have specific lawyer advice, but I spent time researching careers lately and for me the best way to make contacts was to go through the local society for that particular career. Another idea might be to contact the university. Also, ask around friends and family - someone always knows someone who knows someone...

 

[Kaleigh]

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