Consumption that capitalises on Memorial Day is a travesty.

[yssie]

There.
I said it.

Anyone in these marketing departments actually remember what Memorial Day is? It's not about partying at the beach, or shopping the latest sale, or the start of White Pants Season.
It's a day to remember people who have given their lives for their country and their fellow countrymen.
It's a day to celebrate the friends and family those people died serving.

Memorial Day sales are unspeakably insulting.

I'm sure I'll be posting something similar on Veterans' Day.

PS, please consider removing that blog post. I'm offended, and disappointed that the PS blog has joined the irreverent masses, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

yssie our ANZAC day is similar
shops open at 1pm
before 1pm pretty much everything is closed, no adds on tv (that is awsome)
but on the dot at 1pm its truelly disgusting how people are all waiting to get in the shop doors
i always put in for annual leave for that half day because it upsets me so much
i think my grandad and his brothers didn't go to war to fight for freedom so we can shop
i had an argument with a manager once that shopping does not count as a quality family activity


i always like to make a point of remembering and thanking the brave young American men who faught the Pacific war on this day.
we had servicemen stationed here from '42 for R&R and training before or after they had been in combat in the Pacific
most of our boys were in Europe and our home defences would have been woefully inadequate if the Japanese had invaded
The American troops brought a degree of security to especially the woman folk but a cash injection to the war time economy and excitment for the girls.
saddly too many of those boys never made it home to their mothers after they left our shores
my grandmother was eternally greatful to America for saving the South Pacific from the Japanese to her dying day as it was a fear alot of woman of her generation had.
My family have always been very pro American as a result

least we forget

 

[yssie]

yssie our ANZAC day is similar

I green up in NZ and Australia. We moved from Wellington to Auckland, then to Brisbane, and finally Canberra - before moving to the US. I remember ANZAC day prep at school.

 

[AGBF]

Your posting has made me think, yssie. My initial response was that Memorial Day sales were no worse than sales on Thanksgiving or opening doors on Christmas (which for some of us is a holiday). The more I thought about it, the more I thought that I have always hated the new Thanksgiving sales and the opening of stores on Christmas. I realized that if, instead of accepting that we had stores open on all the days that used to be meaningful to us we fought their being open, the better it would be. I thought (revolutionary concept here, I know!) that instead of thinking, "I should accept Memorial day sales; they are no worse than Thanksgiving or Christmas day sales" I could eschew Thanksgiving and Christmas Day sales, too!

I really dislike the crassness of our society, the loss of beautiful holidays that I grew up with as quiet and family oriented to scenes of people pushing at malls. Is there no longer any place where we all take time out for quiet? For reflection? For family and friends? To take a break from commerce? To care about people, not things.

At any rate, I went from a mild disagreement with you (in my head) to a wholehearted agreement with you, yssie, after giving your posting some thought. Thank you for making me think.

Hugs,
(((yssie)))
Deb

 

[bludiva]

I was having this conversation with my spouse yesterday. Why does every long weekend/ national holiday need to be an excuse for shopping? How has consumption become our foremost duty as US citizens? Our country puts the economy first and look where it gets us socially and politically.

At the same time, if there is a big purchase I'm planning on making, I try to wait for a sale. I got my favorite couch 25% off for Mother's Day (??...thanks, mom), my last two cell phones and TV around Thanksgiving (which is a holiday I have issues with), etc. So I'm reinforcing the cycle with my own purchasing and it's hard to say, I'll just pay the full price now rather than wait for the next promotion...however lame it is that the sale exists.

 

[Gussie]

While I agree with y'all that holidays weren't intended for shopping and a reason to have a sale and I never shop on holidays, those who fought for us did so that we could have the freedom to choose. Freedom means just that. I don't have to participate or agree with it but I am ever grateful that no one decides for me.

 

[AGBF]

While I agree with y'all that holidays weren't intended for shopping and a reason to have a sale and I never shop on holidays, those who fought for us did so that we could have the freedom to choose. Freedom means just that. I don't have to participate or agree with it but I am ever grateful that no one decides for me.

I strongly believe in the separation of Church and State. My inveighing against crassness was not intended to mean that I wanted the law of any specific religion enforced by the State. I am wishing for a different culture. I agree with you that freedom means freedom. I belong to the ACLU. I defended the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie. I can defend the rights of big box stores to have sales on Thanksgiving and Christmas.

 

[Gussie]

I strongly believe in the separation of Church and State. My inveighing against crassness was not intended to mean that I wanted the law of any specific religion enforced by the State. I am wishing for a different culture. I agree with you that freedom means freedom. I belong to the ACLU. I defended the rights of Nazis to march in Skokie. I can defend the rights of big box stores to have sales on Thanksgiving and Christmas.

I usually don't participate in threads like this (by choice!)

I guess I am "to each his own" on all levels! I don't even particularly wish a different culture - I figure it will all work out in the end.[/QUOTE]

 

[yssie]

I wanted to respond to @AGBF in particular - thank you for your thoughtful post Deb. You've made me think in return

I grew up in NZ and Australia. It was summer at Christmas!! And in all the storybooks I read and all the TV shows and movies I watched - there was always the quiet Christmas morning drinking hot chocolate by the window and watching snow fall. The bustling Christmas dinner with soups and steaming pies. Opening presents in front of a fire. Ice skating on a frozen lake with friends.

When we finally came to America in October, my first time experiencing Christmas "The Way Christmas Was Supposed To Be" - it really was magical. The decorated mall, the smells, the lights everywhere, the snow. I'm not Christian, but I love everything about the Christmas my storybooks pictured. Which makes me quite the hypocrite, of course, because so much of that childhood portrayal is entirely secular!

I'm not military myself, but have friends and family who have served or are serving. My other half - who adjuncts at West Point - shared with me that his mentor had once told him that their purpose was to ensure that American troops were never in a fair fight. A controversial statement, I know, but one that resonated with me immediately and viscerally. I now work with the VA - and so many servicemembers who walk away from service with all limbs intact are still so far from healthy, physiologically and psychologically, and the infrastructure to support them needs so much work... I knew this. But I really didn't understand until I saw it firsthand.

To reduce Memorial Day - Decoration Day, as it was originally - to sales and the unofficial start of summer... obviates the gravitas of what we should be focusing on. In my opinion. There's no "pretty dreamscape" of military service - no hot chocolate or ice skating on the frozen lake. There's spouses raising children by themselves, there's long-term medical treatment, there's families disagreeing on politics and implementation - and there are thousands of people willingly signing up for all of the above with pride, responsibility, duty.

I'm not libertarian enough to fully agree @Gussie! I honestly don't believe that freedom means right to do as we please with our freedom. For me social responsibility - which are hopefully the foundations of social mores! - takes clear precedence over individual freedom. And for me observing Memorial Day with a spirit of commemoration and remembrance is a social responsibility.

I'm rambling. Just talking as I think.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I guess it does seem as if the meaning of "Memorial Day", is obscured by shopping events, But, where I live in the Midwest, there is plenty of activities with friends and family on this weekend. I think Yissie, you could consider that most people do deeply feel the sacrifices that our servicemen have made on our behalf, but this feeling is internalized and may show up in areas other than the one day set aside for it A day such as this is not a learning or action day for most. War and remembrance is hard. For me, a good book or movie expresses what I feel about our men. In fact what came to mind when I read your post was that an very fine author has just died. He wrote two books that I read many yrs ago that reframed War for me. One book was called "War and Remembrance", the other "The Winds of War". MY brother recommended them to me, and I was so glad he did. The Author was Hermann Wouk.

It is still good we have a day set aside for remembering, even if it appears that people don't. Every day we celebrate them when we vote, when we fear possible more wars, and when we do exercise that social responsibility you so aptly expressed. Americans do care about their country's servicemen.

We are doing it now.

 

[Gussie]

As I mentioned, @yssie, to each his own. Trying to impose my beliefs onto anyone else isn't my cup of tea.

 

[AGBF]

I guess it does seem as if the meaning of "Memorial Day", is obscured by shopping events, But, where I live in the Midwest, there is plenty of activities with friends and family on this weekend. I think Yissie, you could consider that most people do deeply feel the sacrifices that our servicemen have made on our behalf, but this feeling is internalized and may show up in areas other than the one day set aside for it A day such as this is not a learning or action day for most. War and remembrance is hard. For me, a good book or movie expresses what I feel about our men. In fact what came to mind when I read your post was that an very fine author has just died. He wrote two books that I read many yrs ago that reframed War for me. One book was called "War and Remembrance", the other "The Winds of War". MY brother recommended them to me, and I was so glad he did. The Author was Hermann Wouk.

It is still good we have a day set aside for remembering, even if it appears that people don't. Every day we celebrate them when we vote, when we fear possible more wars, and when we do exercise that social responsibility you so aptly expressed. Americans do care about their country's servicemen.

We are doing it now.

I do not disagree with the basic premise of your posting, Annette, that there is no one way to honor servicemen. However, we sometimes fail to do right by our veterans. Yssie spoke to this when she wrote about our VA system. It is not really the topic at hand, however, so I do not plan to beat it to death. How they are treated after they serve does matter, however.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

The VA system is not the fault of everyday Americans. It has been given funds that don't seem to be used well. It is the bureaucracy that doesn't seem to know what it is doing. This may be a case where a system got to be too large. I most certainly agree that the VA must improve for these men.

Yssie--My best friends family had a cabin in Fort Montgomery, NY. When I was a teenager we would chase the West Point Cadets and play tennis with them. One wrote me such nice letters, but I was way too young for him. I think he was twenty one, I was sixteen and just a teenager. But he was nice. See what nice memories of servicemen you evoked?

Deb--I know this belongs elsewhere but i'll put it here anyway. I wanted to describe Mueller and found a literary sounding description that I will give you. A petty, bourgeois, bureaucrat. I've taken that term from either French and Russian novels.

Gussie-- good to hear your views. I want to include all in my extra comments.

Annette

 

[Bonfire]

Memorial Day is a solemn day of remembrance for everyone who died while serving in our armed forces. Not to be confused with Veterans Day. Traditionally it was observed on May 30, then changed to the last Monday in May to incorporate a 3 day weekend. It has evolved into a kick off the summer season party instead of a solemn day of remembrance as was intended.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I green up in NZ and Australia. We moved from Wellington to Auckland, then to Brisbane, and finally Canberra - before moving to the US. I remember ANZAC day prep at school.

its a small world
i was born and raised in Dunedin bit spent the last 20 years living in Wellington before we moved to Wanganui because a morgage in Wanganui is cheaper than rent in Wellington
ive found over the years ANZAC day commerations are growing more and more each year
i remember when i was at school.as the last WW1 vets died out commentators thought so would ANZAC day. But its become a fay of national identity
the coverage of all the offical goings on was the best on thr Maori language tv channel (it was either in English or subtitled)
i spent all day glued to the stories of our wars and those who served
maybe because its really autumn by April 25th but i couldn't imangine it ever being anything but s somber day of commeration and deep reflection and of course gratitude

I have a home in another online community with a lot of Americans and our memorial day thread was small .
i know alot of people who went to the beach
i think family time would be appropriate but hay they do it a bit different.
i wounder if your previous exposure to ANZAC day, especially in Australia, means that you look on Memorial day as a more somber day that seems to be the modern norm with all the beach going and shopping etc ?

I hope the United States has been.good to you
i definatly envy you yssie

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

Your posting has made me think, yssie. My initial response was that Memorial Day sales were no worse than sales on Thanksgiving or opening doors on Christmas (which for some of us is a holiday). The more I thought about it, the more I thought that I have always hated the new Thanksgiving sales and the opening of stores on Christmas. I realized that if, instead of accepting that we had stores open on all the days that used to be meaningful to us we fought their being open, the better it would be. I thought (revolutionary concept here, I know!) that instead of thinking, "I should accept Memorial day sales; they are no worse than Thanksgiving or Christmas day sales" I could eschew Thanksgiving and Christmas Day sales, too!

I really dislike the crassness of our society, the loss of beautiful holidays that I grew up with as quiet and family oriented to scenes of people pushing at malls. Is there no longer any place where we all take time out for quiet? For reflection? For family and friends? To take a break from commerce? To care about people, not things.

At any rate, I went from a mild disagreement with you (in my head) to a wholehearted agreement with you, yssie, after giving your posting some thought. Thank you for making me think.

Hugs,
(((yssie)))
Deb

at least you have thanks giving to break it up before the Christmas rush
here the shops have the decorations out after labour day at the end of October
and don't talk to me about shops being open on labour day !
my whole life ive done shop work

public holidays are the worst
but you are a polite people wih beaitiful manners so i hope its not so bad for your shop workers
we do shut out shops for Christmas day and Good Friday, half of ANZAC day but people still.shop like the shops have been shut for a week the next day
sunday trading stole my youth

 

[AGBF]

Memorial Day is a solemn day of remembrance for everyone who died while serving in our armed forces. Not to be confused with Veterans Day. Traditionally it was observed on May 30, then changed to the last Monday in May to incorporate a 3 day weekend. It has evolved into a kick off the summer season party instead of a solemn day of remembrance as was intended.

...and you got us back on track, Bonfire. We have been all over the map with this thread. Memorial Day is to honor the men and women who served and did not return. I do want to throw out, as I often do on Veterans Day, that although it is a day to honor all veterans, that it, also, has very solemn roots. Just as Memorial Day was once Decoration Day and started as a day on which the graves of Civil War veterans were decorated, Veterans Day also once had had another name. It was Armistice Day. It started out as a celebration of the Armistice that ended World War I on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918. World War I was very bloody and millions of men were lost in single battles. Armistice Day was always a solemn celebration, not some lightweight, off-the-cuff or token crumb thrown at former soldiers. The world recognized after World War I that they had lost a generation. The young men of that time are referred to as "The Lost Generation". So Veterans Day, like Memorial Day, has a serious history.

 

[elizat]

While I agree with y'all that holidays weren't intended for shopping and a reason to have a sale and I never shop on holidays, those who fought for us did so that we could have the freedom to choose. Freedom means just that. I don't have to participate or agree with it but I am ever grateful that no one decides for me.

I asked my better half what he thinks about this subject as an Army vet and someone that still works supporting special operations for his career. He basically expressed something similar. That everyone that serves does it so people have freedom to choose what to do and how to live. And for all the people that may not think about the sacrifices made by service members and their families, so many do all year round. Freedom isn't free and has a cost, but those that serve are willing to pay it and unfortunately, sometimes do. That's how he feels anyway as someone that has served and has lost friends.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

While I agree with y'all that holidays weren't intended for shopping and a reason to have a sale and I never shop on holidays, those who fought for us did so that we could have the freedom to choose. Freedom means just that. I don't have to participate or agree with it but I am ever grateful that no one decides for me.

point taken
i was waiting for someone to say that and technically you are correct
but if the shops were shut the peoole who work in them could have a holiday with their family too
one day of no shopping wont kill anyone
you can still have your essential things open

i know my grandad would rather we were using our freedom to bond with our families rather than practising gross consumerism and worshiping the all mighty dollar down the mall. i think that would have been the last thing on his mind as he fought his way through some stinky hot wet Pacific jungle always worrying about my grandma and their 3 little kiddies
and dont get me wrong, im a strong beleavier in the capitalist system and i quite enjoy the mall (ive never worked in a mall)

I'm really passonate about this issue

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

...and you got us back on track, Bonfire. We have been all over the map with this thread. Memorial Day is to honor the men and women who served and did not return. I do want to throw out, as I often do on Veterans Day, that although it is a day to honor all veterans, that it, also, has very solemn roots. Just as Memorial Day was once Decoration Day and started as a day on which the graves of Civil War veterans were decorated, Veterans Day also once had had another name. It was Armistice Day. It started out as a celebration of the Armistice that ended World War I on the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month in 1918. World War I was very bloody and millions of men were lost in single battles. Armistice Day was always a solemn celebration, not some lightweight, off-the-cuff or token crumb thrown at former soldiers. The world recognized after World War I that they had lost a generation. The young men of that time are referred to as "The Lost Generation". So Veterans Day, like Memorial Day, has a serious history.

ive always been a bit confussed between your two days
thanks for clarifying

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

People seem to freak out and think they are going to die if they can't hit the shops! This happens every Good Friday and Christmas Day.

These days when I see "Sales" I think "yikes landfill." Yes I am one of those gremlins who doesn't buy a Christmas present for anyone except the kid. I cook and give them food in recycled containers but otherwise no presents for anyone! Except Lil Sis who I buy jewellery for (gems and jewellery are where I have failed in life).

 

[Tekate]

My father a WWII veteran of the Pacific arena with 11 Battlestars told me this, and this I have always stood for and believed is what a veteran is and what it meant to fight in a war.

My father said "It was a man's duty to fight for his country, his duty like putting on a pair of socks, like brushing your teeth, it was your duty to go and fight for our country. After coming home I felt that the war was over and it was a man's duty to return to civilian life without huge fanfare and huge parades and men putting on their old uniforms, because it was a man's duty to fight, not a choice, when I came back home I put my navy uniform away and it was in a closet (tlll my sister wore it for Halloween in the late 60s then who knows where it went), and there it stays because it's a man's duty to serve in time of war". My dad also said "There wasn't enough help for the shell-shock men from WWII, it was a shame, and I am glad today the veterans of Viet Nam are able to get the help they need." My dad then went talk about patriotism. This all happened in 1982 in a car driving to see my sister who'd just had her second baby. My dad told me all about the war and what he saw.

So I was 29 when my Dad told me this, it deeply affected me. My father felt before he died in 2007 that this honoring of veterans was overdone because it was the DUTY of every American man to serve in times of war.

My father read about Hitler in action and he was always VERY concerned about nationalism in America, I just think boy he would freak out today.

So that is my background. In this little down that I grew up in where everyone's dad and grandpa was a WWI or WWII veteran (and we had one Spanish American war veteran too).. every year there was a parade and at the end of the parade all the WWI veterans rode in convertibles and the WWII men walked, many in uniform so we could clap for them, my Dad walked sometimes, sometimes he had to work. At the end of the parade we would all go to the honor roll in our town and the Mayor or the VFW leader would read EVERY name of a boy who was lost in any war, up to to the Viet Nam war (I moved off to college and never went home for memorial day again), this was very solemn and mom's and dad's and grandparent's cried, some very hard that I remember, then the whole town would walk down to a field and there would be a 3 volleys of shots fired in memory then we would all trek back up to the Firehouse and there would be a picnic and kids played and parents talked (and drank and drank and drank....) and at dusk we all went home.

So that is what I experienced for till I was about 18, so I view memorial day as solemn, as a day of memory, but I also view it as honor and as a picnic and full of people sharing.

ETA: Not ONE store was open in the days. Not one.

 

[Arcadian]

When I was younger, memorial day was...problematic as there are several servicemen on both sides of my family that did not make it home. We didn't do BBQ's. It became even moreso of a problem when my father was in Iraq/Afganistan where he also lost some military brothers and sisters that served under him.

This year I observed the day at an early morning beach service for the fallen, I skipped this year's service at the Navy Seal Museum however. Then I came home and worked a little. (yes I still do even though I'm F!!)

When my dad retired in 2008/9 he was already an old man. A great grandfather. Only reason why he retired was because he was forbidden by his dr to ever complete another PT which I think broke him. He told me once he always thought he'd die with his boots on. (basically in combat), I for one am glad he didn't, though he came back a very changed man after the last one.

Freedom isn't free. Someone somewhere made a sacrifice so that you (general you) can do and say the things you do without repercussions from our own government.

My father always said he may not like most people because of what they do, but he will fight for their rights to freely do so within the bounds of our constitution.

So I guess the reality is, shop if thats what you want. You're free to do so.

 

[AGBF]

Memorial Day was an absolutely huge deal in my family because of my great uncle, Steve. He was not the only man in my family to have served overseas in World War II, but he was the only one who took being a veteran on as a semi-professional job. My father and my Uncle Bob rarely mentioned their military service, although both were overseas for many years. My father's life in the service was relatively tame, although he was in England as it was being buzz bombed and in Paris just after it was liberated. Because he was in the Signal Corps, his job sending messages, he was usually behind the lines. (My brother and I would ask him about the nature of the messages, wanting to hear of romantic and dangerous themes and he would always say he had to send "'Send more catsup!". But he drummed Morse code on everything all the time when I was a child.)

My uncle Bob, a navy medic attached to the marines was on a ship offshore during D-Day and then was sent to the South Pacific. His experiences there amidst hand-to-hand combat and landmines were horrifying and led to what was then called "shell shock". My mother's first cousin, in the navy, was killed when his ship was torpedoed. My Great Uncle Steve was in the Army infantry and in the front lines. He was at D-day and the Battle of the Bulge. He got a bullet through his helmet. (He also brought home a mortar shell that scared the local police several years ago when, after he died, no one knew if it was live. Found in the attic.)

Memorial Day was such a big deal because my Uncle Steve was active in The American Legion and The Veterans of Foreign Wars in two towns, his (and my mother's) small town and the larger city next to it, and marched in one or two parades every year. My family of four always went to The Memorial Day parade to see Uncle Steve march. (Sometimes he was in a car.) Towards the end of his life, he was usually The Grand Marshall. I know that when my brother and I were in scouting we marched in our local Memorial Day parades, but I certainly went to many, many of my uncle's parades! As I got to be a teenager I got into many arguments with my uncle (whom I dearly loved). He was a tall and big man, but very gentle and loving who cried whenever he thought about the men who had died in combat and who faithfully placed flags on graves. He was very bombastic about veterans and The American Legion and so forth, however.

When he was honored by the veterans' groups I took photos and made up an album for him to commemorate the occasion. I had matured enough to know that this devotion to veterans' causes was his passion. I am so glad that I was reconciled with him before he died (which is now a very long time ago).

I hadn't planned to share about how I celebrated Memorial Day as a child, but I am glad to remember that. I am glad we are sharing.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

My father a WWII veteran of the Pacific arena with 11 Battlestars told me this, and this I have always stood for and believed is what a veteran is and what it meant to fight in a war.

My father said "It was a man's duty to fight for his country, his duty like putting on a pair of socks, like brushing your teeth, it was your duty to go and fight for our country. After coming home I felt that the war was over and it was a man's duty to return to civilian life without huge fanfare and huge parades and men putting on their old uniforms, because it was a man's duty to fight, not a choice, when I came back home I put my navy uniform away and it was in a closet (tlll my sister wore it for Halloween in the late 60s then who knows where it went), and there it stays because it's a man's duty to serve in time of war". My dad also said "There wasn't enough help for the shell-shock men from WWII, it was a shame, and I am glad today the veterans of Viet Nam are able to get the help they need." My dad then went talk about patriotism. This all happened in 1982 in a car driving to see my sister who'd just had her second baby. My dad told me all about the war and what he saw.

So I was 29 when my Dad told me this, it deeply affected me. My father felt before he died in 2007 that this honoring of veterans was overdone because it was the DUTY of every American man to serve in times of war.

My father read about Hitler in action and he was always VERY concerned about nationalism in America, I just think boy he would freak out today.

So that is my background. In this little down that I grew up in where everyone's dad and grandpa was a WWI or WWII veteran (and we had one Spanish American war veteran too).. every year there was a parade and at the end of the parade all the WWI veterans rode in convertibles and the WWII men walked, many in uniform so we could clap for them, my Dad walked sometimes, sometimes he had to work. At the end of the parade we would all go to the honor roll in our town and the Mayor or the VFW leader would read EVERY name of a boy who was lost in any war, up to to the Viet Nam war (I moved off to college and never went home for memorial day again), this was very solemn and mom's and dad's and grandparent's cried, some very hard that I remember, then the whole town would walk down to a field and there would be a 3 volleys of shots fired in memory then we would all trek back up to the Firehouse and there would be a picnic and kids played and parents talked (and drank and drank and drank....) and at dusk we all went home.

So that is what I experienced for till I was about 18, so I view memorial day as solemn, as a day of memory, but I also view it as honor and as a picnic and full of people sharing.

ETA: Not ONE store was open in the days. Not one.

how fortunate you were to have had that conversation with your Dad
i think my grandad would agree with your dad but i wasn't old enough to have had that conversation and he never talked to his own children about anything about the war

 

[Tekate]

ha! how right you are. I will tell you another story, shorter this tme

I had this conversation with my Dad because my sister had her 2nd baby and my mom was already out in PA with my sister, my Dad was going up (10 hr ride in those days) and my sister asked me to come up with our father.. I about (TRUTH) choked and fainted, I said "what?" naw.. and she said please.. so I did! but I was 29 or so and I had never, ever, ever, ever had a longer conversation with my father than say 10 minutes till then, I will tell you D&D I was nervous as hell.. so I decided to ask him about WWII, and that opened the floodgates for him, maybe he was just waiting to tell me? I don't know, he was a very very very quiet man, very much a 1950s father, but he told me about kamikazee pilots, the terror, the sadness, meeting up with people he knew from our hometown, his parents, his brother who was also in the navy, and about what he thought of America and service, he was very adamant about too much nationalism and this was in 1982. If my father were alive he'd be 95 today, then he was 58, he'd so freak out. He ever once used the VA, think of that... he had benefits from his job and he used them rarely even. But I listened very closely to him because I thought my father very intelligent for a blue collar guy men your grand-dad's age and my dad's said little.

PEACE always!

ETA: He said also on that LOONG drive to me: "flag wavers are the worst, beware a flag waver because one should live what the flag stands for, not fly at a parade or little league game" (pretty prescient my Dad was)

how fortunate you were to have had that conversation with your Dad
i think my grandad would agree with your dad but i wasn't old enough to have had that conversation and he never talked to his own children about anything about the war

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

ha! how right you are. I will tell you another story, shorter this tme

I had this conversation with my Dad because my sister had her 2nd baby and my mom was already out in PA with my sister, my Dad was going up (10 hr ride in those days) and my sister asked me to come up with our father.. I about (TRUTH) choked and fainted, I said "what?" naw.. and she said please.. so I did! but I was 29 or so and I had never, ever, ever, ever had a longer conversation with my father than say 10 minutes till then, I will tell you D&D I was nervous as hell.. so I decided to ask him about WWII, and that opened the floodgates for him, maybe he was just waiting to tell me? I don't know, he was a very very very quiet man, very much a 1950s father, but he told me about kamikazee pilots, the terror, the sadness, meeting up with people he knew from our hometown, his parents, his brother who was also in the navy, and about what he thought of America and service, he was very adamant about too much nationalism and this was in 1982. If my father were alive he'd be 95 today, then he was 58, he'd so freak out. He ever once used the VA, think of that... he had benefits from his job and he used them rarely even. But I listened very closely to him because I thought my father very intelligent for a blue collar guy men your grand-dad's age and my dad's said little.

PEACE always!

ETA: He said also on that LOONG drive to me: "flag wavers are the worst, beware a flag waver because one should live what the flag stands for, not fly at a parade or little league game" (pretty prescient my Dad was)

a 1950s father
i like that
i kind of had a 50s upbringing but in the 70s
your Dad sounds like he was a very wise man
its really lovelly to hear about him