Connecticut elementary school shooting

[Enerchi]

senseless tragedies.

the loss of those innocent lives. Clearly the son had MH issues as he specifically targeted his mother's class room. There is simply not enough MH support and research being done in the health care field. In my experience, if it isn't a high profile or "glamourous" disease, then it doesn't get the funding or interest.

Very very sad. My heart goes out to the remaining family members of the innocents in all of this as well as the shooters surviving family. There just can't be proper words to express the sorrow everyone is feeling now.

Bless us all, for being healthy and able to wake up tomorrow....

 

[justginger]

Absolutely heartbreaking.

Gun control is not the answer. Think Oklahoma bomber..there are other means for those who are deranged.

I think school security needs to be drastically beefed up and I have thought that since Columbine and the Amish school shootings. I was teaching when both of those happened, and great, we started locking all school doors but the front door. But when the front door is unlocked, then anyone can come in and do something like this.

There are other means for crazies - but look at how much work and planning and intelligence must go into an elaborate plan like that. If that were the only avenue for mass murder, you would filter out what? 80% of them? No heat of the moment freakouts, with a gun as close as your dad's closet. I'd take that over what's currently happening any day.

And I definitely agree thy something must be done about the mental health of the population. Obviously guns do not shoot themselves an this upward trend of mental instability and violence is extremely concerning. Is it the exposure to violence at such a young age? I feel like perhaps there's more validity to that argument than I previously thought.

 

[Sakuracherry]

Well said, ginger. My country has a very strict gun control and I rarely hear people die from shooting. Everytime I hear sad news like this, I want to vomit. Why did those people have to die? How could have the suspect purchased guns? There's something wrong. I love American, but protecting people's rights to own guns are not important compared to people's rights to live without fears.

 

[FrekeChild]

I think the other 50% is just plain crazy. How are we, as a society, producing so many broken, insane people? All these shooters conveniently die so we can't analyze: How many first person shooter games did they play? How many medications did they skip? How many family members ignored the signs of mental illness? How often did the shooter perpetrate violence in the past? What kind of online life did they live that encouraged brutality and violence? How many animals did they hurt when they were children or teens (a bona fide indicator of psychosis)?

Why are so many so terribly horribly broken and what are we doing or not doing to contribute to it? I agree 100% with everything. I often wonder why this is such a phenomenon now when it never seemed to be so prevalent in human history before. Is it the ultimate attention getter? Is it someone saying "you think Columbine or Aurora was bad, well just watch me? Is it the final act of someone saying "I have been wronged and I'll show you"? Were there really signs that were overlooked all the way along? What is happening now that this has become the outlet of choice for so many and what is society doing to contribute to it? How many industrialized countries has it spread to? Does it ever happen in the less developed countries? Someone somewhere has GOT to have some answers. This is our future...

I think there are lots of factors going into this. I just spoke to my husband about it (he studies crime), if there was some way to study this kind of crime and find predictors. He said not really. And this is what he does for a living.

Why not:
1. Really rare. Crimes like bank robberies, mugging, murder, domestic violence, car jacking, happen all of the time. Mass murders? An almost insignificant percentage of American lives are lost to mass murderers.
2. Risk factors. So far it seems as though almost all of these mass murders have some factors in common: white, male, middle-upper middle class, ostracized in social group (school), probably plays some kind of first person shooter video games, probably listens to a certain type of music, probably has some kind of mental health history, etc. So, how many millions of kids fit many/all of these criteria? Way, WAY too many to start trying to figure out which ones MIGHT be at risk for committing mass murder.

I personally think it has to do with a combination of societal things: America's entitled attitude, media coverage (FAME! Notoriety!), mental illness, SES (socio-economic status - got to have access to guns/weaponry!), and probably more...revenge? Personal vendetta?

I think we need to be studying James Holmes like he's a lab rat.

 

[Rhea]

I'm watching BBC news this evening in the UK. The shooting isn't our top story on NewsNight. I think this is the 3rd major shooting in the US in 2012 so far. It's so common that it doesn't seem to feature as prominently in the media as I used to expect.

I don't know what's wrong with the US but something should be done. I don't mind if it's strict gun control as the UK and Japan have chosen, or having a different attitude as Canada, Finland, and other countries seem to. The US is doing something wrong and yet seems unwilling to learn from others.

Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for the families, but I also think it's inevitable. I imagine there will be a few more major shootings in the US in 2013. The rate of them isn't slowing. What's the definition of insanity?

 

[Laila619]

America has a way of retaliating when the laws are too strict and doing whatever they when the laws are too lax. I'm worried that if gun laws become stricter, the black market for guns will become worse. Bad people will always find a way to get guns and its just so so stupid! that these children had to be at the other end. I'm sad but so angry!

that's the reason why i am against gun control.

This is simply NOT TRUE, but is always thrown around by the the 2nd Amendment Absolutists.

1) Set up strict gun laws. I suggest following Australia's current regulations, considering they have nearly 700% fewer yearly deaths by firearms than the US. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

2) Enforce said gun laws. Hire more firearms-related police officers (would help in a society with unemployment issues and lots of ex-service people).

3) Decriminalize marijuana, get all those non-violent stoners out of prison, and start putting away those who are caught with unlicensed firearms.

Stabbing rampage in China? 22 INJURED. Shooting spree in the US? 20 children DEAD. No Christmas this year, no bike riding, ear piercing, first kiss, prom dress shopping, graduation, sorority/fraternity pledge, family holidays, wedding, house, babies. No life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness for those little ones.

It is no longer the time to HOPE things will get better. The average American needs to stop being petrified and supporting gun ownership based on fear, the need for protection. It is time to be ANGRY that society has turned into this mess. "Bad people will always have guns?" Not if you make damn sure they don't

Great post.

How much longer can we keep letting this stuff happen?!

 

[NOYFB]

This breaks my heart. Why are so many of these senseless tragedies happening this year? I have no words....

 

[yennyfire]

I am just heartbroken. I can't seem to stop crying as I think of those families, facing life without their babies...and the children facing life without a parent. It's just incomprehensible.

 

[sonnyjane]

I'm so upset by this. This guy clearly wanted to hurt his parents, which is bad enough, but why oh why take the lives of these poor children?? My mom is a kindergarten teacher and she is also taking this badly, as it's quite easy for her to imagine the scenario with her own students. So incredibly sad

 

[Dancing Fire]

[quote="justginger|1355520847|

It is no longer the time to HOPE things will get better. The average American needs to stop being petrified and supporting gun ownership based on fear, the need for protection. It is time to be ANGRY that society has turned into this mess. "Bad people will always have guns?" Not if you make damn sure they don't[/quote]


so just ask them to turn in their guns??

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

In Australia when the gun control came in the government did a buy back scheme for about a year. People handed in their guns and got a cheque in return. I think they spent 50 million on the scheme. It was worth every cent in my eyes since we haven't had a mass shooting tragedy since.

 

[TC1987]

How are we, as a society, producing so many broken, insane people? All these shooters conveniently die so we can't analyze: How many first person shooter games did they play? How many medications did they skip? How many family members ignored the signs of mental illness? How often did the shooter perpetrate violence in the past? What kind of online life did they live that encouraged brutality and violence? How many animals did they hurt when they were children or teens (a bona fide indicator of psychosis)?

Almost 20 years ago, I was taking sociology and psychology courses in college. And the profs back then were saying that the kids coming up were going to be more violent, and that the trends were already showing. A large part of it was blamed on video games, which before they were entertainment for the masses, the same thing was used to train soldiers for combat. That always stuck in my mind. I am sure that all the rap culture and the zombie shows and the violent special-effects movies (with no plots but lots of violence) didn't help, either. There seem to be more people having problems with "voices," now, as well. But it's difficult to tell whether that's a savvy attorney or whether the person really has voices. I observed a patient in the psych ward who was there due to problems with The Voices coming back, but when all the staff left, he was on the phone telling his girlfriend how to sell the Harley and which beer to go get, and didn't appear to be at all psychotic.

 

[Tuckins1]

The moment I found out about this, I was watching a bunch of Kindergardeners practice for the Christmas performance. I had to really work not to break down right there in front of them... This sort of thing makes me want to keep my son in the house and never let him out of my sight!!! So sad for all of the people affected.

Prayers for each one of those precious angels.

 

[stargurl78]

So so so sad. The families of the victims will be in my prayers tonight.

 

[VapidLapid]

I have been thinking about this all day. I think guns are a technology. At the time of the second amendment they were a pervasive state of the art technology. To see them as a right today is akin to saying everyone has the right to an high speed internet, or a sub-prime mortgage. Since the right to bear arms is not going away, can we please just take the hand out of hand-guns? I mean literally. Someone wants a gun, fine they can have it, but they have to give up their hands. Yep, I mean cut them off. Kinda like cancelling the phone contract of a non paying iphoner, or repossessing a defaulted sub-prime mortgage. Guns are arms, you have a right to those. Hands are a luxury. You want to shoot someone, shoot with your feet.

 

[Sha]

It's just heartbreaking. I feel so horrible for all of those families. This is unbelievably tragic.

I'm going to be honest here-- as someone who is planning on having children within the next 5 years, I am absolutely terrified. How do you cope with the fear that this might happen to your child? Or do you just hope for the best? The gun violence in this country is just sickening. I have a very hard time coping with the idea that I might lose a child someday because someone who shouldn't have a gun is having a bad day. It's very scary.

This was on my mind too. I"m not in the U.S but I"m a parent... Bad things happen everywhere I agree (and I do have that anxiety about my child where I live as well) but when I think of the frequency of these shootings in the U.S I would be absolutely terrified that something like this could happen to me or my loved one too. Today it's this school in Connecticut....where will it be next? How do you help you child feel safe when these shootings are happening so often, and no one is sacred - not even little children? I heard a psychiatrist on CNN talking how helping children deal with this tragedy, and one of the things he said was to let your child know that 'they're safe now'. How can you have that sense of safety when these shootings are so frequent and are happening in the most ordinary places- at shopping malls, political meetings, movie theatres, at an elementary school ? It feels like nowhere is safe. It's absolutely horrendous. LIttle children shouldn't have to be dealing with things like this... Neither should their families...

As far as gun control... I think that most people outside of the U.S (including myself) struggle to understand the attachment to and relatively easy access to guns there. Yes, I know it's the 2nd amendment and guns are used for protection, hunting/sport, blah blah...and many people use them responsibly. Still, many people in countries around the world get by just fine without them. Not many people in my country have guns for protection...I don't think that makes them feel unsafe, even though there's crime here like anywhere else. They take other measures to protect themselves (burglar bars, security doors, alarm systems, guard dogs, common sense techniques etc.). (To think about it, I think I would feel more UNSAFE than safe in my house if there was a gun in it.) So if other people around the world can get by fairly well without them, are they really THAT necessary, especially when they're so easily used to create atrocities like this?

And the 2nd amendment - ok, I'm not a U.S citizen and not that familiar with the U.S Constitution - but I agree that the Founding fathers probably couldn't have dreamt about this type of carnage when they drafted this into the Constitution. I'm thinking that - coming out of a history of battle and civil war - that they probably felt that it was necessary at the time, but is this amendment as relevant or as useful today? (citizens as a militia to protect the State.???), when there is a military already and the government is already so much more powerful than ordinary citizens with their handguns, anyway? Forgive my ignorance on U.S laws etc, but can't something like this be changed if deemed necessary?

Just some questions from an outsider....I know we had the debate on gun control before on P.S, after the Aurora shootings.... and I guess this debate will continue as long as these things happen, as sadly, they will probably will, unless something changes. I think people should be sick of seeing these scenes on T.V now, sick of the vigils, the horror, the loss of lives....when will it be enough???

 

[perry]

Another largely preventable tragedy.

Societies are founded and work by rules and expectations.

When people go outside of those rules and expectations - the question is how does the rest of society feel they have to respond.

The real issue behind this and other massacre events is the concept that "someone else" will take care of us and protect us from the occasional massively violent person.

Unfortunately, what most people in the US do not understand is that historically "we" individually are that "someone" who is actually expected to act in these situations. Either individually to an isolated event - or collectively to a more organized event (which is what citizen militias did several hundred years ago - and why they needed the right to be armed).

By law - the police actually have zero legal responsibility to protect most people (their are isolated exceptions to this - but don't think for a moment that they apply to you or me). Their key job is to investigate crimes.

Do I expect the children in school to be able to protect themselves. No. But, I do expect that the adults in that school should be able to protect the children.

Of course, no one wishes to take on that kind of duty in modern America for many reasons - not the least of which is that the modern american legal system will no longer generally protect someone who acts in general defense of others - and quite often will prosecute them. School systems also do not wish to actually plan on how to protect the children (or minimize the event) either.

These events will continue to occur (with or without guns - remember the machete massacre in Africa) until people are actually willing to define who is actually responsible to stop these kinds of events and provide those people with the legal and moral support necessary for them to act.

A few years ago there was an attack at a church service (somewhat similar to what recently happened in Wisconsin) in one of the western states. One of the congregation members (a lady I believe) pulled out their concealed pistol and shot the attacker dead. There were no other significant injuries.

I fail to see how telling students to hide under desks or in corners or closets is providing any real protection.

When people are willing to act in personal and collective defense - most of these events will be minimized. There are no perfect solutions - but there are solutions that are known to work. If we chose not to apply what is known to work - then we should not blame others for the problem.

I wish you all the best,

Perry

 

[SB621]

This is semi off topic but I thought I would post a link since many of us will be talking to our children tonight and possible in the future about tragic events. Since my family is active duty military this has been an extremly helpful link for many in our field.

Helping Children with Scary news (Fred Rogers)
http://www.pbs.org/parents/rogers/special/scarynews-thoughts.html

 

[JaneSmith]

Guns should be tightly controlled. No one needs a handgun.
Our culture must de-stigmatize mental illness. Greater access to medical care is needed.

Our school sent this link in the newsletter. It is some helpful tips for discussing scary topics with young kids.
http://parentingpower.ca/dealing-with-scary-news/

 

[AGBF]

I don't know if this will interest anyone from other parts of the country, but as I have said, the shooting in Connecticut happened in in Fairfield County, where I live. Newtown is about as far away as from where I live as one can go and still be in the same county, but it turns out that the shooter's father (and the ex-husband of the shooter's first victim, his mother) lives about a mile away from me. He works where my first cousin works in Stamford, Connecticut, too. (Connecticut is acually a small state.)

Like many people, I had assumed for hours that the shooter's father was among the dead. The police went to his home to see if he was all right and broke the news to him that his son had been involved in a shooting. He had obviously heard nothing about it.

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Father-of-Newtown-shooter-lives-in-Stamford-4119559.php#photo-3895157

AGBF

 

[baby nurse]

What perry said.

 

[distracts]

senseless tragedies.

the loss of those innocent lives. Clearly the son had MH issues as he specifically targeted his mother's class room. There is simply not enough MH support and research being done in the health care field. In my experience, if it isn't a high profile or "glamourous" disease, then it doesn't get the funding or interest.

And in my experience, even if you have something common, it's hard and expensive to get treatment. Another problem is most of these mental illnesses come on first while a teenager, and I know my parents were in denial and didn't get me help, despite my pleas, until I nearly killed myself. If I had been outwardly destructive instead of self-destructive, I could easily see my deranged thoughts having resulted in a tragedy like this. Luckily, they didn't, and I was able to get the help I needed. But weekly therapy and daily medication costs me about $400+ a month - AFTER insurance. It is something I have to have for the rest of my life in order to remain a productive member of society. I am lucky that I have the resources to continue treatment, but the vast majority of people do not. I am also lucky that, through being open about my depression, I have found a group of friends who do not stigmatize mental illness. Stigmatization of mental illness and the mentally ill as irredeemably crazy is a big part of the problem, because no one wants to seek treatment and be thought of as "crazy" if they can continue to "pass." But passing as mentally healthy shouldn't be the goal - the goal should be to actually BE mentally healthy. And that requires people actually behaving as if it's a chronic illness that can be treated to allow a normal life, rather than "craaaaaaazy."

 

[House Cat]

I am completely heartbroken for the families in CT. I can't imagine the pain that they are feeling.

Everyone speaks of gun control, but I keep thinking of how EASY it is to walk onto any elementary school campus in my state. WHY? These are our children. There have been enough shootings now that I think we should be considering security. We need to secure our children. My son's school requires a simple sign in, but the campus is wide open. Anyone could walk on to his campus and walk into any classroom they wish.

There are plenty of other weapons in this world besides guns. Take the guns away and people will use something else.

BTW, I am not pro gun. I am just being realistic.

I also think we need to start having a very open, real conversation about mental illness. I think the laws surrounding people who are clearly showing signs of psychosis are bunk. We have to wait until the person is willing to admit that they are going to do harm to themselves or others before we can have them committed (for only 72 hours). I'm not asking for pre-Reagan days where you could have your neighbor committed for a year for being weird. I'm asking for something in between. If someone is clearly psychotic, they should be evaluated for a period of time. Money should be allocated to our mental health systems, not taken away and considered a luxury. Stigma is still alive and well. People still think mental illness is a choice, that the actions behind mental illness are a choice. Until it is seen as a very real illness, we will get no where.

Maybe this isn't the place and time to be searching for answers. Somehow, searching and processing allows me to deflect from the pain that I feel for these families and children.

Sending love to the Pricescope community too. <3

 

[lulu]

I don't understand why this guy's mom had dangerous weapons in her home knowing she had a disturbed child. I'd personally give up a lot of my "rights" if it would guarantee that this would never happen again.

 

[Circe]

Posted and deleted because I think I'm feeling a little too emotional about this, and it's not the place - I'll start another thread tomorrow. But, yeah, a big ditto to Freke on studying the ones we've managed to contain, because while guns are a big part of the equation, we NEED to figure out why these guys are doing what they're doing, no matter what it is they're using to do it.

 

[Laila619]

Everyone speaks of gun control, but I keep thinking of how EASY it is to walk onto any elementary school campus in my state. WHY? These are our children. There have been enough shootings now that I think we should be considering security. We need to secure our children. My son's school requires a simple sign in, but the campus is wide open. Anyone could walk on to his campus and walk into any classroom they wish.

Yes, metal detectors need to be in every school, and all doors need to be kept locked. I don't understand why this can't be done.

 

[iLander]

I think there are lots of factors going into this. I just spoke to my husband about it (he studies crime), if there was some way to study this kind of crime and find predictors. He said not really. And this is what he does for a living.
Why not:
1. Really rare. Crimes like bank robberies, mugging, murder, domestic violence, car jacking, happen all of the time. Mass murders? An almost insignificant percentage of American lives are lost to mass murderers.
2. Risk factors. So far it seems as though almost all of these mass murders have some factors in common: white, male, middle-upper middle class, ostracized in social group (school), probably plays some kind of first person shooter video games, probably listens to a certain type of music, probably has some kind of mental health history, etc. So, how many millions of kids fit many/all of these criteria? Way, WAY too many to start trying to figure out which ones MIGHT be at risk for committing mass murder.

I personally think it has to do with a combination of societal things: America's entitled attitude, media coverage (FAME! Notoriety!), mental illness, SES (socio-economic status - got to have access to guns/weaponry!), and probably more...revenge? Personal vendetta?

I think we need to be studying James Holmes like he's a lab rat.

Well, I agree, Freke, it's like a needle in a haystack. BUT what if we decentralize the search? There are parents, neighbors, brothers, sisters, etc., who are sometimes aware that "something's off". Why don't we have a resource for them to turn to? There is no mental health safety net, is there? If there is, we need a PSA letting people know what that is.

 

[Rosebloom]

I am also too emotional for a lucid argument tonight, but I wanted to add my belief that gun control absolutely is a big part of the answer.

 

[iLander]

Almost 20 years ago, I was taking sociology and psychology courses in college. And the profs back then were saying that the kids coming up were going to be more violent, and that the trends were already showing. A large part of it was blamed on video games, which before they were entertainment for the masses, the same thing was used to train soldiers for combat. That always stuck in my mind. I am sure that all the rap culture and the zombie shows and the violent special-effects movies (with no plots but lots of violence) didn't help, either. There seem to be more people having problems with "voices," now, as well. But it's difficult to tell whether that's a savvy attorney or whether the person really has voices. I observed a patient in the psych ward who was there due to problems with The Voices coming back, but when all the staff left, he was on the phone telling his girlfriend how to sell the Harley and which beer to go get, and didn't appear to be at all psychotic.

Great. So we're combat training our kids with these idiotic video games. Swell. Our DS used to ask for these games when he was a teen and we never bought them or let him have them. DH believes that some things are just "metal pollution" and they are insidious and creep into your psyche. Some video games, slasher movies, violent movies, boxing, pretty much anything that breaks the mental barrier between you and hurting someone else. I think DH has a point.

 

[Rosebloom]

senseless tragedies.

the loss of those innocent lives. Clearly the son had MH issues as he specifically targeted his mother's class room. There is simply not enough MH support and research being done in the health care field. In my experience, if it isn't a high profile or "glamourous" disease, then it doesn't get the funding or interest.

And in my experience, even if you have something common, it's hard and expensive to get treatment. Another problem is most of these mental illnesses come on first while a teenager, and I know my parents were in denial and didn't get me help, despite my pleas, until I nearly killed myself. If I had been outwardly destructive instead of self-destructive, I could easily see my deranged thoughts having resulted in a tragedy like this. Luckily, they didn't, and I was able to get the help I needed. But weekly therapy and daily medication costs me about $400+ a month - AFTER insurance. It is something I have to have for the rest of my life in order to remain a productive member of society. I am lucky that I have the resources to continue treatment, but the vast majority of people do not. I am also lucky that, through being open about my depression, I have found a group of friends who do not stigmatize mental illness. Stigmatization of mental illness and the mentally ill as irredeemably crazy is a big part of the problem, because no one wants to seek treatment and be thought of as "crazy" if they can continue to "pass." But passing as mentally healthy shouldn't be the goal - the goal should be to actually BE mentally healthy. And that requires people actually behaving as if it's a chronic illness that can be treated to allow a normal life, rather than "craaaaaaazy."

Thank you for sharing your insight.