Confused Locally and Looking for Guidance

[nmorrow]

I posted another thread here asking about the stone performance in a particular setting, the one my gf wants (Danhov Abbraccio) and the feedback was helpful for better understanding the setting's impact on performance (effectively - not much). I thought I was all set but after last night I'm very confused and frustrated with the contradictory information.

Local/family place was nice and seemed informative but doesn't have a path to Danhov at all (and she's set on this ring). They offered to recreate it but I'm not too confident in that given fineness of this specific setting. Went to Rogers and Hollands and they kept touting "family owned" but later stated they have 85 locations nationwide...didn't settle me much. They also strongly stated that the Canadian Ice line of diamonds they exclusively carry was the best as they are GGI-certified (a division of GIA as she said) and clearer - she also stated that the Canadian mine is the only mine not owned by DeBeers and therefore is cheaper to be price-competitive with DB. She said GIA was the best/only grading to consider as it is more strict.


So, with all of that said can anyone help clarify some of this?
I've searched PS a bit and found that the running consensus on Canadian stones is that they are colder/icey in appearance and seem to cost more (increased labor) but otherwise there is no notable difference.

Is GIA the only lab to consider?
I read a lot about "AGS0" referencing a truly ideal cut - that is only awarded by AGS labs, correct?
Are things like "hearts and arrows" real performance or are they just another branded name for light reflection?

Here's what I'm looking for:
Diamond budget would be a FIRM $10k - any deal would be great of course.
Round
Ideal cut
Around 1.1 cw, give or take
H color give or take (From the loose stones I've seen this seems to be the least noticeable to me)
Eye-clean SI1 or clearer

Appreciate any feedback - I was ready to pull the trigger and felt confident until last night. To add to the fact it pushed a bit of an argument between the gf and I because I seemed so hesitant/indecisive (given the contradictory information I was hearing, I was!). Don't flame her for it...it isn't the first time we've gone so she's excited....just not a great night for us. (that got really long, sorry but thanks for reading!)

 

[Diamondbug]

Oh my goodness goodies. You have a very healthy budget for your specs. Here's some stones in your budget that I would be over the moon to receive

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=996
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=798
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2782667.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3157621.htm?source=pricescope
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.14-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-84643
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=view-id-diamond-infinity&id=989
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3114538.htm?source=pricescope

Ok so check those out and let us know what you think of those. I will let other knowledgeable P'ser answer your other concerns.

 

[1stTimeRockHunter]

I posted another thread here asking about the stone performance in a particular setting, the one my gf wants (Danhov Abbraccio) and the feedback was helpful for better understanding the setting's impact on performance (effectively - not much). I thought I was all set but after last night I'm very confused and frustrated with the contradictory information.

Local/family place was nice and seemed informative but doesn't have a path to Danhov at all (and she's set on this ring). They offered to recreate it but I'm not too confident in that given fineness of this specific setting. Went to Rogers and Hollands and they kept touting "family owned" but later stated they have 85 locations nationwide...didn't settle me much. They also strongly stated that the Canadian Ice line of diamonds they exclusively carry was the best as they are GGI-certified (a division of GIA as she said) and clearer - she also stated that the Canadian mine is the only mine not owned by DeBeers and therefore is cheaper to be price-competitive with DB. She said GIA was the best/only grading to consider as it is more strict.


So, with all of that said can anyone help clarify some of this?
I've searched PS a bit and found that the running consensus on Canadian stones is that they are colder/icey in appearance and seem to cost more (increased labor) but otherwise there is no notable difference.

Is GIA the only lab to consider?
I read a lot about "AGS0" referencing a truly ideal cut - that is only awarded by AGS labs, correct?
Are things like "hearts and arrows" real performance or are they just another branded name for light reflection?

Here's what I'm looking for:
Diamond budget would be a FIRM $10k - any deal would be great of course.
Round
Ideal cut
Around 1.1 cw, give or take
H color give or take (From the loose stones I've seen this seems to be the least noticeable to me)
Eye-clean SI1 or clearer

Appreciate any feedback - I was ready to pull the trigger and felt confident until last night. To add to the fact it pushed a bit of an argument between the gf and I because I seemed so hesitant/indecisive (given the contradictory information I was hearing, I was!). Don't flame her for it...it isn't the first time we've gone so she's excited....just not a great night for us. (that got really long, sorry but thanks for reading!)

Go with your gut, I would have the same feelings about the setting be recreated.

AGS can be trusted as well as GIA (the standard), AGS grades light performance while GIA doesn't.Certainly don't rule out AGS graded diamond.s

 

[distracts]

I am unsure as to why she'd say GGI is a division of GIA. That's either a blatant untruth or complete ignorance. It's not.

Not to mention the fact that there appears to be more than one unrelated diamond grading company called GGI.
http://globalgemologicalinstitute.net/
http://www.ggi-labs.com/

FWIW I have never heard of that lab before. Either one of them.

If you want a Danhov ring, you will need to either buy it online or find a Danhov retailer near you. I'm sure you can search it on their website.

 

[distracts]

she also stated that the Canadian mine is the only mine not owned by DeBeers and therefore is cheaper to be price-competitive with DB

Also untrue. DeBeers only controls less than 40% of the diamond market currently, and operates several mines in Canada ( https://www.canada.debeersgroup.com/Mining/ plus you can see a list of mines here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_diamond_mines and click through to see who owns them). Famously the Argyle mine in Australia is not operated by DeBeers, to name just one non-Canadian diamond mine not owned by DeBeers or a subsidiary. Where the heck is this person getting their information?

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Are things like "hearts and arrows" real performance or are they just another branded name for light reflection?

The Hearts and Arrows patterns in a diamond demonstrate optical symmetry. It does not,however, give a determination of light performance. For light performance the overall geometry of the diamond must be taken into account. The absence of a Hearts and Arrows patterning does not, by itself, indicate a diamond of lesser performance, just as the presence of the Hearts and Arrows does not, by itself, indicate a diamond with better light return.

So, to be clear: You cannot determine light performance based solely on the H&A patterning - for data on light return and performance you should look into the IdealScope and ASET views.

 

[VRBeauty]

I agree that given the delicacy and precision of the Danhov Abbraccio settings, you should get a genuine Danhov setting rather than allowing some other jeweler to attempt to re-create one... which would effectively rule out the local store you were dealing with. Besides, I wouldn't want to do business with a business that is either so uninformed or so willing to give you incorrect information.

Danhov seems to be fairly exclusive, in the sense that not many jewelers carry the line. It appears that James Allen carries Danhov, or at least used to.https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-new-reset-danhov-bezel-asscher-by-ja.152247/ https://www.pricescope.com/communit...rl-ring-w-76ct-rb-th-mangagement-ring.178261/ James allen also has a wide selection of in-house diamonds and can call in diamonds for you. Call them and ask, but I believe that generally JA will also set a diamond purchased elsewhere. Or in this case, send that diamond to Danhov to be set - It also looks like no matter where you purchase a Danhov setting, the stone has to be set by Danov.https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/in-love-with-danhov-but.34465/ Generally, James allen would also

You can also find a local Danhov dealer using the Danhov locator... and many local jewlers would agree to set a stone purchased elsewhere.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Are you planning to buy a diamond local to you? Were you looking specifically for Canadian mined diamonds?

I did a search for Danhov retailers since they might want to set stones into their own mounts:

http://www.danhov.com/dealer-locator

cheers--Sharon

 

[Gypsy]

Here's the information you need to know, to explain why we will make the recommendations to you that we will. Okay?

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[MelisendeDiamonds]

I've searched PS a bit and found that the running consensus on Canadian stones is that they are colder/icey in appearance and seem to cost more (increased labor) but otherwise there is no notable difference.


On average Canadian diamonds are more expensive than diamonds mined and cut elsewhere for the same 4 Cs, for a variety of reasons including higher labour costs. But you should benchmark the specific diamond(s) you are looking at versus comparables to be sure.

For you the consumer and even farther up the chain, the only thing that matters is the one stone that you are considering. While it may be true that the average rough pulled out of a Canadian mine might be of higher color and clarity, that has absolutely no relevance to the one particular stone you are considering. Grading laboratories like GIAL grade Color, Clarity and Secondary Hue on the grading report. A GIA G is a GIA G unless differences are noted on the report, no matter where it was mined so the origin really has no relevance unless you specifically want a Canadian sourced diamond for political or ethical reasons.

Is GIA the only lab to consider?

GIAL and AGSL are both find labs with excellent standards, In Canada I would not choose a lab or report not directly issues outside of these two.