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Confused, concerned, feeling cheated! (long)

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RMFA

RMFA

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 24, 2005
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30
hello everyone,

i am a frequent lurker and know that a lot of you give invaulable advise to other on these boards. I have a serious issue that I would appreciate to hear your thoughts on. Sorry it is long -- but i wanted to give you all the information.

In 2004 my husband bought my engagement ring from jewlers who are friends of my parents. He purchased a bit over 2 ct radiant with .5 cttw trillion side stones. At the time he purchased the ring, the jewlers gave him an appraisal for insurance purposes. It states that the center stone is G color and SI1 clarity. everything is fine until January 2008.

At that time our insurance asks for a new appraisal and a copy of the certifaction certificate for their files. it is then we realize that we never received a certificate. i call the jewelers and they say that they do not have a copy of the certificate, but I could send them my ring and they would get me a new certificate.

9 weeks pass and my ring is returned with an EGL USA certicate that says it is H color and VS2 clarity.

I thought that was very weird, so i set up an appointment with an independent appraiser in NYC that is receommended here on Pricescope. I find out that the EGL certificate they sent me is NOT for my diamond. NOTHING matches from the certificate to the actual diamond.

My diamond is actually a J (maybe an I) SI2 clarity!! Also, it has an inclusion in it that touches the surface of the diamond. my husband had NO IDEA it was there.

The valuation of th ring from this appraiser is almost exactly what my husband paid in 2004 --- with a "friends" discount. But I feel really cheated! Shouldn''t it be worth more now than in 2004?

also, it is not AT ALL what my husband thought he bought or what the jeweler told us it was! not to mention feeling violated by friends of my parents!

I am going to call the jeweler after I calm down --- but I do not know what is reasonable to ask for in this situation. Should i ask for a refund and return the ring? for a dollar amount back?

i am at a COMPLETE loss and am a ball of emotions.....can someone here please advise?

Thank you!
 
Sorry to hear
If the jeweler gives you a hard time let them know you''ll plaster their bad name all over PS - and we have a wide readership
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Well...I don''t know that you could do much. Definitly talk to your jeweler and see what they tell you, but after so many years have passed, I doubt you will get a refund or anything. Bring in any paperwork you have that states what they originally told you about the diamond, but don''t hold your breath - you''ve loved the ring for years and were never the wiser, don''t let this ruin it after so long.
 
Date: 7/8/2008 3:20:50 PM
Author: MonkeyPie
Well...I don''t know that you could do much. Definitly talk to your jeweler and see what they tell you, but after so many years have passed, I doubt you will get a refund or anything. Bring in any paperwork you have that states what they originally told you about the diamond, but don''t hold your breath - you''ve loved the ring for years and were never the wiser, don''t let this ruin it after so long.
Click to expand...

If you''ve loved it for this long, don''t worry about it. You never knew before and it never bothered you. I don''t think you are going to get much from them, but maybe you can get them to pay for the grading of your diamond? Maybe they''ll be nice since you are "friends" and they''ll exchange the diamond for you. That would be your best bet. Otherwise, once you figure this out, I wouldn''t shop there anymore and tell all of your true friends not to shop there either. Good luck though, and keep us posted!
 
I also want to put out a reminder of the purpose of an appraisal; it should give accurate information to the insurance company regarding replacement of the exact ring in event of a loss. It sounds to me that this appraisal does exactly that. Beware appraisals that state a value high above what was paid for the actual ring, it only means misrepresentation of one sort or another.
 
Did the appraiser grade it while it was set? Did s/he actually say, "This report is not for this diamond"?

When you purchased the stone, were you told that it was certified? Were you told you would be mailed a certified stone in a certain amount of time?

Unless the appraiser removed the stone and said it didn't match up (wrong dimensions, wrong inclusions, etc.) then I think that what happened was:

*the store sold you an uncertified stone, grading its color and clarity themselves (a grade or two generous, perhaps)

*you requested a certificate, so they took the stone and sent it to EGL USA, known to be more lenient than GIA and AGS

*the appraiser you visited is more of a strict grader

An EGL H could very well be graded as I or J by the GIA, same with the clarity.


You can't blame the store if you purchased an uncertified stone. You could have asked for certified stones. They have tried to help you by getting it graded. Yes EGL has a more lenient reputation (and if you search for, say, 2 carat G SI1 radiants on here, you'll see a big difference between the GIA and EGL prices to reflect that), but their certificates are not worthless.
 
thanks everyone for your thoughts and comments.

I do understand that the appraisal should give a value to replace this EXACT ring should something happen. and am very glad to now have it and save on the premiums that i have apparently been overpaying!

my issue is that this EXACT ring is not what it was represented to be. So a fair price paid in 2004 for a G SI1 stone --- should not be the same fair price for what is really a J SI2 ring. The J SI2 ring appraises for that price today because of the increase in prices. In 2004, it should have been sold for less at a retail price.

So, basically we were ripped off 3 1/2 years ago --- and that makes me very angry and sad.

i am trying to not let it affect my view of my ring, because my husband really tried hard to get me my "dream" ring and thought going to my parent''s friends would help.

As you can imagine, he is more than a little bit angry....
 
Phoenixgirl,

To answer your questions,

yes, the appraiser said "this is not for this diamond -- AT ALL -- nothing matches! You may as well return this to the jeweler becasue it is compeltely irrelevent"
and yes, my husband was told it was certified at the time of purchase. He was told by the jeweler "we only sell certified stones!"

It wasn''t until we actually asked them for the copy of the certificate and they could not find it in their records that all this happened.

Also, throughout the process, the jeweler has sworn up and down that they gave my husband the certificate when he bought it. (he does not remember that -- and we do not have it in our files) so, we had to pay to get this bogus certificate "duplicate copy" of our original.

perhaps we were too trusting because they are such good friends of my parents...


 
Was this your dream ring for the past 4 years? Were you bothered by the color? Did you notice inclusions? I say this only because you mentioned you would be willing to return it for a refund. It gives me the impression that you aren''t exactly attached to/in love with this ring.

I think you did get done dirty 4 years ago, but don''t let that spoil the joy you find in your ring now! It''s just not worth it. I don''t think you have much recourse unfortunately, unless they are willing to give you a SWEET deal and a trade in on a GIA certed stone!
 
Date: 7/8/2008 4:12:25 PM
Author: RMFA

perhaps we were too trusting because they are such good friends of my parents...
Click to expand...
It''s easy to do when you think you know somebody. Don''t be too hard on yourself - do what you can to see if they will work with you on either upgrading your stone to what it SHOULD have been, or take it as a lesson learned never to just trust a jeweler outright. It''s been several years and the meaning of your ring has not changed - that your husband did the best he knew how to get you a ring you loved
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I don''t know about your insurance company but mine does not charge according to the grade of the diamond.

Mine only charges a premium based on the insured dollar value, period. I don''t think you''ve been overpaying for premiums if as you said, it is still appraising for the value you paid?
 
purrfectpear,

the appraisal we received from the jewler at the end of 2004 -- state a value that is $5k more than we paid (making the purchase price the "great deal" we got from family friends). So, i have been paying premiums on that amount.

the appraisal today is for almost the EXACT amount he paid in 2004.
 
Unfortunately, unless you have it in writing from them what exactly it was supposed to be and by who''s standards, you''re kind of stuck. I just reread your original post and from your description, they gave you an appraisal with the grading on there, but it was their own in house grading system. They can make that system whatever they want it to be and it doesn''t sound like they ever said it was a GIA stone. Unless the appraisal says it was an EGL or GIA stone, you really have no recourse. In their own eyes, it was a G SI1, but according to your (probably GIA trained) appraiser, its a J SI2. Its 2 different sets of standards and if they never told you it was G SI1 by GIA''s standards, then you''re stuck.

Don''t get me wrong, what they did was still terrible, but technically, all they did was give you an opinion on it if you don''t have a lab report. The appraisal is not a lab report and it was an in house appraisal, so they could say whatever they wanted to on it. Its not until the diamond is graded in a lab that you have anything of authority to fight with.

My only suggestion would still be to try to exchange the diamond if you can, and if not, never shop there again and just try to forget about it. I''m really sorry this happened to you, but please keep us posted.
 
OK, I understand now. However, jewelry store appraisals are almost never accurate. They universally overappraise values to make buyers "think" they got a "great deal". That''s very, very common in the industry.

That may very well be why your insurance company asked for a VALID cert and a real appraisal (though I sure wish they hadn''t waited a couple of years to ask for it?). The insurance company may have thought the appraisal looked overstated.

As to overpaying, you guys decided to insure for more than you paid. Premiums are based on the amount you choose (and the insurance company agrees) to insure for.
 
This is exactly why my dad always said it was not wise to do business with friends and relatives. You found out that you did not get what you thought you got, and now you have negative feelings about this jeweler friend. I would go to him and mention the drastically lower color as well as the inclusion that actually touches the top of the stone, and see what he says. Of course, you don''t have any written proof from the original sale so its your word against his memory. Chances are he won''t remember selling you the "better" stone. If he doesn''t offer to replace it with a stone equal to what you thought you were getting in 2004, then would be a good time to mention all the fee publicity here on PS. We would all be glad to tell our friends about him since he likes to receive the referrals so much!!
 
my 3 basic rules when it comes to buying diamonds....

#1- NEVER buy from a family or uncle''s friend whose been in the diamond business before Christ was born.

#2- NEVER buy from a so call "wholesaler" whom usually don''t sell to the public.

#3- NEVER BREAK RULES #1 and #2.
 
Date: 7/8/2008 7:07:20 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
my 3 basic rules when it comes to buying diamonds....

#1- NEVER buy from a family or uncle''s friend whose been in the diamond business before Christ was born.

#2- NEVER buy from a so call ''wholesaler'' whom usually don''t sell to the public.

#3- NEVER BREAK RULES #1 and #2.
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I agree. How many posts start with, "I went to a friend of a friend who owns a jewelry store..." ?? Usually doesn''t turn out so well.
 
Ditto - there should be a "never buy from a friend/uncle/family who gives great discounts" rule. I am very sorry to hear about your situation.
 
taking a giant step back - may I ask HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE RING FROM ''04-''08 BEFORE YOU KNEW ANY OF THIS INFO?
 
if i understand you correctly you are not upset with the ring but with the poor treatment you feel you received from your parents friend. i feel you got a raw deal and were taken advantage of while acting like you were given a "deal". i understand being upset with that. i don''t think that this jeweler will acknowledge anything other than that your guy was given the cert and you lost it. i think you will probably have to take the lesson learned here and just love your ring and avoid that jeweler like the plague.
 
When a jeweler guarentees the quality of a diamond in writing the jeweler is expected to stand behind that written grade whether its yesterday of four years ago...if they dont know their business then dont put it in writing or get into another business...no matter how much you lover the ring...it appears that it was mis represented ...twice...and these people own you something in return...it is worth the effort to discuss this with the owner and im sure they will see that they screwed up and need to make it right...find out what they are going to do for you before you get up set ...before you go there decide what it is you want...a new stone?A refund?Remember you are the customer and injured party...they own you...The grade and the dollar amounts are in question and so is their reputatation...I think a solution would be to send the ring to G.I.A. offices(not just another appraiser)at no cost to you( around$300.00) and if the grade dosnt come close to the grade they originally assigned it then they own you that grade...legally if they sold you a G-SI1 then you can expect to be made whole with the promised grade or higher.Just because you still love the ring dosnt change the fact that it was mis repesented more then once and you should be upset for that reason.Good luck.
 
"send the ring to G.I.A. offices(not just another appraiser)at no cost to you( around$300.00) and if the grade dosnt come close to the grade they originally assigned it then they own you that grade...legally if they sold you a G-SI1 "

I don''t think the jeweler originally represented it as a G SI1 according to GIA

Even if the stone was graded a G SI1 by EGL when the ring was sold (and I dont know if it was), EGL still may not come to the same conclusion as GIA. I understand that GIA can be stricter

If you want to make sure you''re getting a GIA cert''d stone, buy one cert''d by the GIA. If you are enough of an expert to eyeball a great stone that isn''t cert''d, more power to you!
 
Date: 7/9/2008 6:20:49 AM
Author: customcushion
''send the ring to G.I.A. offices(not just another appraiser)at no cost to you( around$300.00) and if the grade dosnt come close to the grade they originally assigned it then they own you that grade...legally if they sold you a G-SI1 ''


I don''t think the jeweler originally represented it as a G SI1 according to GIA


Even if the stone was graded a G SI1 by EGL when the ring was sold (and I dont know if it was), EGL still may not come to the same conclusion as GIA. I understand that GIA can be stricter


If you want to make sure you''re getting a GIA cert''d stone, buy one cert''d by the GIA. If you are enough of an expert to eyeball a great stone that isn''t cert''d, more power to you!
Click to expand...

I agree with this. As I said earlier, just because they said "G SI1" doesn''t mean they actually meant "GIA G SI1". It could have been "EGL G SI1" or "My own G SI1". While sending it to GIA will give you an industry standard grading, it does nothing for either you or the jeweler other than confirm what you already know from the appraisal. I still suggest either taking it back and asking specifically for a "GIA G SI1" or just saying forget about it and move on and love your ring like you have for the past 4 years and start paying a lower insurance premium. Good luck with all of this and keep us posted.
 
UPDATE:

The jeweler has been on vacation until today.

So I just called and spoke to them aout my issue.

They told me that they have to do some research and look into their records about this transaction. She is also going to check with the "diamond guy" in Chicago and see what''s up with the non-matching EGL report. She kept saying "but that was the original report for your ring".....even though I kept saying it did not match at all.

Theya sked me to fax them my paperwork -- original appraisal from them from 2005, EGL cert they sent me, and Appraisal from last week --- so they can look it over.

However, i do not have good feelings about this. She was very aggressive on the phone and kept repeating that "there is NO WAY they can do an accurate appraisal with the stone in the setting" . She said the only way to get the true info about the color was to take to diamond out. is this true? would it make a false reading of "j" when it is a "g" stone if it is in the setting? the ring it all paltinum.....

she also kept saying that she hates when people try to confuse consumers about diamonds....and that she JUST returned from vacation....etc.

I am going to send them everything via fax with a detailed coversheet ----but I don''t know what to do....
 
I know I''ve already commented on this, but I can''t help thinking about why people buy diamonds from a friend of a friend in the jewelry business. I''ve come up with this scenario -- as soon as someone finds out you''re in the market for a diamond, they think "oh, I can refer some business to my friend and help him sell some stuff." Then, so as not to hurt his friends feelings, the clueless diamond buyer hands over the money to this jeweler "friend," thinking he''s getting an awesome discount. The thing I wish all young guys getting engaged knew, is that no jeweler is going to lose money on a diamond for a friend of a friend. Its just an easy sale for him, and of course he will get a profit on a *usually* low grade diamond. This one has an inclusion that actually comes up and touches the surface! Anyone doing their homework would pass on a stone like that. But a friend of a friend is trusting that he is getting something good for cheap. However, unless your future mother-in-law (couldn''t help slipping that one in there from Missy''s recent thread) is buying the ring for you, there is no diamond tooth fairy.
 
To answer your question, it''s true that the only way to get an accurate grade of the diamond is to remove it from the setting and grade it upside down against a master set.
 
Date: 7/15/2008 2:10:45 PM
Author: RMFA
UPDATE:

The jeweler has been on vacation until today.

So I just called and spoke to them aout my issue.

They told me that they have to do some research and look into their records about this transaction. She is also going to check with the ''diamond guy'' in Chicago and see what''s up with the non-matching EGL report. She kept saying ''but that was the original report for your ring''.....even though I kept saying it did not match at all.

Theya sked me to fax them my paperwork -- original appraisal from them from 2005, EGL cert they sent me, and Appraisal from last week --- so they can look it over.

However, i do not have good feelings about this. She was very aggressive on the phone and kept repeating that ''there is NO WAY they can do an accurate appraisal with the stone in the setting'' . She said the only way to get the true info about the color was to take to diamond out. is this true? would it make a false reading of ''j'' when it is a ''g'' stone if it is in the setting? the ring it all paltinum.....

she also kept saying that she hates when people try to confuse consumers about diamonds....and that she JUST returned from vacation....etc.

I am going to send them everything via fax with a detailed coversheet ----but I don''t know what to do....
Click to expand...
Demand high cooperation from them. Don''t let them brush you off, cause they will try to make you feel like the bad guy. It sounds like you likely got screwed... One of two things happend:

1.) the jeweler knew the diamond was I/J SI2 and lied to you to and advertised it as being G SI1, or
2.) the jeweler made a mistake and simply sent you the wrong lab report

You might end up getting a lab report back saying that you have what he sold you (i.e. G/SI1). Don''t get hostile until you find out what all they are going to do for you. If there was a mistake in the representation of the ring (i.e. the bastard lied), then you have learned a lesson never to trust a jeweler and to always ask to see the certificate and make sure that your receipt matches the purchase of that certified stone. If they are unwilling to make it right with you, there is always this option, but it is not for the faint of heart. First, file a complaint with the better business bureau of america. Then smear his name, you can even get a sign and protest in front of the store. But personally, if they are really a-holes about it, you could use the good old assault and battery with no witnesses technique...
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