Compare these two rounds please - which one would you get?

[brandonb]

Hey everyone, it''s down to these two. Both diamonds are from reputatble vendors and both of them are also eye clean.

Diamond 1
1.6 - GIA Certified
VS2 I
Depth - 60.8
Table - 56
Crown - 34.8
Pavilion - 40.8
Girdle - 1.1 - .9
Fluoresence - No
Polish - Very Good
Symmetry - Excellent
HCA Score 1.3
7.58-7.63X4.62
$9250

Diamond 2
1.56 - AGS000 H&A Certified
SI1 I
Depth - 61.3
Table - 56
Crown - 34.7
Pavilion - 40.7
Girdle - Thin-Med
Fluoresence - Neg
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
HCA Score 1.0
7.49 - 7.53 x 4.60
$8700

Which one would you get and why?

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[noobie]

What happened to the HOF? Or is one of these the HOF?

 

[brandonb]

Glad you asked.

One of these will be "competing" against the HoF. Which ever one out of these two I choose, I will take to my local jeweler to compare it to the HoF.

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[brandonb]

Here is a picture of the second diamond.

 

[brandonb]

Here is another picture of the second diamond.

 

[brandonb]

Here is the first diamond. The pictures looks like a professional picture and almost fake, so it may not be the best comparison since this pic may be doctored up.

 

[Lynn B]

Certainly NO expert here... but here's my (very!) humble 2 cents...

Both diamonds have great numbers. The "Very Good" polish in diamond #1 is a non-issue, because from everything I've read, the naked eye cannot tell the difference between "VG" and "Ex" (or "ideal"). Both HCA scores are excellent (I have also read that a score of 1 could be considered the sweet spot of the HCA.) But to compare the diamonds based on that score probably isn't too reliable, because the scores are too close to really differentiate; it's just not that precise of a tool. Diamond #1 has a little more carat weight, and a slightly larger diameter - but of course, it's more $. Diamond #2, if it's eye-clean, can certainly hold its own to the VS2, and truthfully, the difference in size would be almost impossible to really notice.

Is #1 a H & A stone? If it isn't, and that's important to you, then that may sway you towards #2.

I don't know... I don't see how you can wrong with either one, really. They both should be excellent performers. (BTW, I think the prices are EXCELLENT and I think you will be very happy with the "I" color. Smart way to get a bigger stone for the $$$!) Tough decision. I'm really grasping at straws here to even find things to compare. They look like brothers! Maybe you should just flip a coin!!!

Lynn

 

[quaeritur]

Hmmmmm... tough choice. I'm going to vote #2, and I think the main reason is that it's less money. Granted it's a teeny bit smaller, but I don't think I could tell the difference in size, and I'm a big fan of the eye clean SI1 for value. But they really are very close. Any chance you could get IdealScope pics for both stones? That may give you something to differentiate between two lovely rocks! Can't wait for the "Pepsi challenge" with the HoF!

 

[Shay37]

Ok, Brandon, here goes. I like them both. They have really great numbers and should be stellar performers as you can see from the pics. So the question is: What do you want in a diamond? Is it the larger size with better clarity with money not a variable? That equates to #1. However, the price is quite reasonable IMO. Or do you want to save a little money drop down the clarity a bit? That says #2 is your rock. Either way you're going to have a winner. Don't forget to ask Whiteflash about the pricescope discount. It might help you make up your mind.

Shay

 

[brandonb]

Lynn,

Thank for your input. I have the same feeling on a lot of the same things that you do.

I do like that #2 is an H&A stone while stone #1 is not an official one(because its GIA). I like that stone #1 is larger, but could anyone tell? The HCA score on #2 impressed me because it was 1.0 exactly.

I thought that ideal polish and symmetry was a step above excellent. Either way, #2 has better polish and symmetry. The price difference doesn't make a huge difference, but #2 is a great price.

It's so tough!

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 7/7/2004 8:23:57 PM brandonb wrote:

Hey everyone, it's down to these two. Both diamonds are from reputatble vendors and both of them are also eye clean.

Diamond 1
1.6 - GIA Certified
VS2 I
Depth - 60.8
Table - 56
Crown - 34.8
Pavilion - 40.8
Girdle - 1.1 - .9
Fluoresence - No
Polish - Very Good
Symmetry - Excellent
HCA Score 1.3
7.58-7.63X4.62
$9250

Diamond 2
1.56 - AGS000 H&A Certified
SI1 I
Depth - 61.3
Table - 56
Crown - 34.7
Pavilion - 40.7
Girdle - Thin-Med
Fluoresence - Neg
Polish - Ideal
Symmetry - Ideal
HCA Score 1.0
7.49 - 7.53 x 4.60
$8700

Which one would you get and why?

Thanks,
-Brandon----------------

Brandon
I'ii pick #2 if its eye clean i like the crown 34.7 & pavil 40.7 combo and ags h&a ideal 0. $550 less

 

[brandonb]

Here is the ideal scope of the first diamond.

\

I can't get one for the second.

Let's put the $550 difference aside. If they were the same price, which one would you get? While I would like to save money, when it comes to this purchase, I set my limit at $10,000 total, so both diamonds would keep me under my total since the setting I want is under $800.

Let's just compare strictly on performance. Will the angles in diamond 2 perform better than the ones in diamond 1? Do you think it would be better to have an AGS000 H&A cert rather than a GIA cert? I'm really not sure which one is better!

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[brandonb]

Here is a comparison of the certs...
Diamond 1 - GIA Cert

vs.
Diamond 2 - AGS000 H&A Cert

 

[noobie]

Brandon,




Tough call Is there any way you could see both? Remember most vendors will ship to an appraiser on approval. Looks like you found two that could be beauties. When it's this close, the visual personal preference test is usually best.




Good luck

 

[Magnum]

Just wanted to point out a few things from the last thread you wrote and maybe clear up some small misconceptions. My responses will be in bold.

I do like that #2 is an H&A stone while stone #1 is not an official one(because its GIA).

Neither AGS nor GIA grade whether or not a stone is a H&A stone or not. I think there is one lab in japan that does, and maybe one or two in Europe as well, but regardless, AGS and GIA do not. There are H&A standards that pricescope talks about in it's tutorial, but even those aren't "official." Just because a vendor says it's a H&A, or even if it's inscribed on the stone as a H&A, that doesn't mean it necessarily is one. Some people's standards can be pretty liberal on what they call a H&A. It's pretty much up to you to decide how precise the hearts and arrows need to be in a stone you're looking for, and the way to do that is to examine the H&A through a H&A viewer (or look at a picture of the same).

I like that stone #1 is larger, but could anyone tell?

Probably not, but it's tough to say. Some people have very good eyes and can see a difference, but I think it's prertt safe to say that most will not see a size difference, even side-by-side.

The HCA score on #2 impressed me because it was 1.0 exactly.

A score of exactly 1.0 doesn't have any special meaning at all. And since the HCA admittedly does not take all the information into account, there is a large margin of error in the score, which is why it says anything below 2.0 is a great score. 1.0 and 1.3 are both well within the margin of error, so for all intensive purposes, they are the same score.

I thought that ideal polish and symmetry was a step above excellent.

It is in the AGS scale, but the top grade for GIA is Excellent (there is no Ideal grade). So, when it comes to polish/symmetry, a grade of Excellent by the GIA is the same as a grade of Ideal by the AGS.

Either way, #2 has better polish and symmetry.

#2 has better polish, but not symmetry. And even though it does have better polish on paper, even most experts find it impossible to distinguish Excellent (AGS ideal) polish from Very Good polish using just the naked eye.

The price difference doesn't make a huge difference, but #2 is a great price.

Doing a quick cut quality search, there are three other I SI1 stones of the same exact size from whiteflash that are actually a few hundred dollars cheaper than stone #2. So while it is a good price, it's not the only good deal out there.

Personally, in a stone this size (the relative size of an SI1 inclusion is the same, but the actual size of an SI1 inclusion gets bigger as the stone gets bigger), I would feel a lot more comfortable getting a VS2 clarity stone, but that's just me. There's a good chance that it could be 100% eye-clean, but for an extra few hundred dollars it seems worth it to me to get the added security of a VS2. But it doesn't look like you could go wrong with either decision, or even the three I SI1 whiteflash stones I mentioned. Best of luck in your search.

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 7/7/2004 10:53:26 PM brandonb wrote:

Here is the ideal scope of the first diamond.

\n

I can't get one for the second.

Let's put the $550 difference aside. If they were the same price, which one would you get? While I would like to save money, when it comes to this purchase, I set my limit at $10,000 total, so both diamonds would keep me under my total since the setting I want is under $800.

Let's just compare strictly on performance. Will the angles in diamond 2 perform better than the ones in diamond 1? Do you think it would be better to have an AGS000 H&A cert rather than a GIA cert? I'm really not sure which one is better!

Thanks,
-Brandon----------------

brandon,

i just got a stone back about two weeks ago from AGS. they graded it I VS2 ideal 0 cut, boy were they tough on the clarity. don't forget neither GIA or AGS gives grades on H&A. you can have anything inscripted on the girdle. so you must ask the vendor to provide you with H&A pictures. both of the stone will be very nice. you can't go wrong either like i said, i prefer #2 stone, but that's just me.

 

[brandonb]

Magnum, thank you so much for your thorough response.

Vtigger - How would the crown and pavilion angles on #2 look better than the ones on #1?

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[Dancing Fire]

----------------
On 7/7/2004 11:22:52 PM brandonb wrote:

Magnum, thank you so much for your thorough response.

Vtigger - How would the crown and pavilion angles on #2 look better than the ones on #1?

Thanks,
-Brandon----------------

brandon,
i like the pavil angle on the number 2 stone, because it's 40.7 degree. and the crown angle is closer to 34 degrees. but for all intentive purposes, these two stones could have identical specs. i have a stone that has 5 different sets of specs, from 5 different (sarin/ogi)machines. the HCA score, range from 1.0-1.8. depending on which report you want to believe.

 

[Mara]

the angles on these stones will not really be a difference to your naked eye, your eye can only pick up so much, the numbers can be perfect vs tiny bit off and your eye will still see a well cut stone.




the first stone is from WF's expert selection, and the fact that its GIA does not mean it's not H&A. GIA and AGS and other labs do not technically grade H&A. that's more a brand or vendor thing...and some will say H&A while others will not. WFs expert stones are not technically H&A but really they are to the casual observer. i have one of their expert stones and the H&A pattern to me looks just like my husbands ACA stone! again, that naked eye thing--it only picks up so much...if its the tiniest bit off and it misses that classification..your eye will still see that great arrow pattern (you can see it in the IS image and the image itself).




this is a tough decision. i like the 1st stone right off the bat because of the spread, i love additional spread. but i don't love the VG polish. call me a perfectionist but ugh that bothers me slightly, esp since its more pricey than the AGS!




but you don't have pictures or anything extra on the 2nd stone. hmm what about light return on it? i don't feel comfortable saying #2 is excellent without comparison IS images or something. there have been stones on here before with EX numbers and the IS image turns out to be a dog.




the 2nd stone has slightly better angles, the ID ID and is more pricey but smaller. also no pictures or reports.




from this angle and having said all of the above, i would take the 1st stone. i like the spread and the angles are still very sweet as is the IS image. you know this stone will be a performer from the numbers and the pictures...but the 2nd one is lacking more info. i couldn't spend $9k or $10k without knowing more.

 

[brandonb]

Mara, thanks for the response.

One thing, you say that the 2nd stone is more pricey, when it is actually $550 cheaper.

The ideal/ideal thing and the slightly better crown/pavilion angles do draw me to the 2nd stone, but I like the idea of the VS2 and the larger size and spread of the first one.

Those are the factors I am now tossing back and forth.

Thanks!
-Brandon

 

[strmrdr]

Id go for the first one out of those 2 just because of the more info availablee on it but id call whiteflash and have Brian pull some diamonds in that price range and go over them with you there may be a better one available.


Somone mentioned some I si1's one of them might be a better deal and even larger yet :}




While I hate talking on the phone it is probable the best way of going when working with whiteflash/Brian.

 

[brandonb]

What does Brian do at WF? I have been dealing with Denise so far.

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[strmrdr]

----------------
On 7/8/2004 1:30:57 AM brandonb wrote:

What does Brian do at WF? I have been dealing with Denise so far.


Thanks,

-Brandon----------------

cuts the diamonds that they sell under the aca brand and most of the expert selection diamonds.

 

[brandonb]

Also, I've looked around in the 1.7 - 1.75 range at SI1 I's and I can't really find anything that has an ideal cut, i.e. HCA under 2 or good H&A, that is around the price of stone one at $9200 or even really under $10,000 for that matter. Anyone have any leads as a last minute option?

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[valeria101]

----------------
On 7/8/2004 1:35:28 AM brandonb wrote:

Anyone have any leads as a last minute option?

Thanks,
-Brandon----------------

There might not be too many diamonds like this with HCA already in place... and may not come as branded H&A. But it may help asking a seller to scoop an option for you. The price sounds feasible, since THIS gets listed for 10700 on PS's search engine, ...one would imagine that some close by option could come for 700 less, right?

And then, there is one 1.65 cts I-VS2 10600 - this is GOG's, so no link goes to the stone. Below is a “portrait” of what the search engine on GOG turned up.

Any thoughts?

 

[valeria101]

... and the numerology exercise for all three

 

[Mara]

wow that 1.73c I SI ACA must be new, it wasnt there a few days ago!

you may be able to negotiate a price with WF...they sometimes have room to move with their ACA's depending on when it was bought (rough) etc.




Brian oversees the cutting and production in their Antwerp facility, and is basically the face of the BRAND behind WhiteFlash and the most expert eyeball in residence there. He designates what gets branded ACA or goes into Expert Selection. He works with Mr. Le on custom jobs, I worked with him when we were creating my wedding ring. He may do some cutting himself, but it seems for the most part he manages others. He also has some very high title that I can't remember right now.




I would trust Brian's expertise implicitly especially as a set of eyes when I can not see the stone. I have always only worked with Brian and Lesley, but then again when I started working with WhiteFlash, I went straight to the top on purpose.

That 1.73c ACA looks really sweet, I adore the size!!

Sorry about the oversight on cost...$550 less makes the first stone look that much better.

 

[valeria101]

(didn't see your post, Mara)

Soooo... does size matter? Not really (about 8%, exactly

) - see below.

And, no, I do not think the picture-perfect picture of the ACA is "doctored" - the diamond and photographic technicals were. The other stone would likely look as good under the same conditions.

 

[brandonb]

Hey Valeria, thanks for the help! That 1.737 ACA is really tempting. I am looking into getting the cert and ideal scope images. I'll post them when I get them so we can analyze it to see if it would be worth the jump in price. ($1500...hmm, that does seem like a lot for a little extra stone)

Thanks,
-Brandon

 

[fire&ice]

#1. I like the clarity & it's not too much more. JMHO