Comments from a Jeweler re: Heated vs. Unheated Sapphires

[heyjudes]

As some of you may know, I am on the quest for "the" sapphire for my engagement ring. I have my eye on one in particular from Wildfish and am waiting for additional pictures from Ed before deciding whether or not it will be a good fit.

Now, at the same time, we've met with a rep from Michael C. Fina in the city and when I expressed my desire to have a sapphire based e-ring, the rep offered to also source some choices.

However, she wrote the following in response to the sapphire image I referenced as well as my preferences (color, unheated, etc.):
"I can get something like this for you, however 95% of sapphires are heated to intensify their color. Unheated does not make the stone more valuable on a color like the one you've attached. I can get in similar quality, although this color is not generally the color we sell nor the cut that we sell. The faceting on the sapphire you sent me looks off and a bit sloppy."

I'm curious to know the thoughts of the knowledgeable PSers. Is she correct for both these statements? Regarding the faceting, I am had assumed it was a native cut stone and thus, was cut this way in order to best show off the colors of the stone.

(As I told my BF - yes, I know I'm obsessing. I figured if anyone would understand it would be PSers).

ETA: The rep from Michael C. Fina has been nothing but great, I don't mean this as a knock to MCFina, just more information gathering for myself.

 

[Arcadian]

what you chose isn''t an ideal color which in an of itself makes it a cheaper stone. I think she''s a bit on the crazy train myself.

Unheated is much more of a preference for sapphires, and an unheated one can and will be more expensive than a heated one if all else is equal.

Thats one of Ed''s stones and those come with a cert by an indepenant lab. Can she also offer that without raising the cost of the stone?

-A

 

[VapidLapid]

The wildfish stone is unusual in color and would not be described as the more commonly desirable ones. The cut is quite unique. I thought the cut and polish on the wildfish stone to be much better than most of his stones. Often his cuts are quirky and I can see scratches from the lap in the facets. This stone has more symmetry and better polish. When all other variables are equal the unheated stone will always be worth more. Yes 95% of sapphires are heated. That alone already makes unheated ones nineteen times more rare!

 

[T L]

Date: 3/14/2010 6:10:46 PM
Author:heyjudes
As some of you may know, I am on the quest for 'the' sapphire for my engagement ring. I have my eye on one in particular from Wildfish and am waiting for additional pictures from Ed before deciding whether or not it will be a good fit.

Now, at the same time, we've met with a rep from Michael C. Fina in the city and when I expressed my desire to have a sapphire based e-ring, the rep offered to also source some choices.

However, she wrote the following in response to the sapphire image I referenced as well as my preferences (color, unheated, etc.):
'I can get something like this for you, however 95% of sapphires are heated to intensify their color. Unheated does not make the stone more valuable on a color like the one you've attached. I can get in similar quality, although this color is not generally the color we sell nor the cut that we sell. The faceting on the sapphire you sent me looks off and a bit sloppy.'

I'm curious to know the thoughts of the knowledgeable PSers. Is she correct for both these statements? Regarding the faceting, I am had assumed it was a native cut stone and thus, was cut this way in order to best show off the colors of the stone.

(As I told my BF - yes, I know I'm obsessing. I figured if anyone would understand it would be PSers).

ETA: The rep from Michael C. Fina has been nothing but great, I don't mean this as a knock to MCFina, just more information gathering for myself.

I have to say that since that color is not very desirable in sapphire, your jeweler is probably right. An unheated stone is more rare than a heated one, but a heated cornflower blue sapphire will be more valuable than that unheated one from Wildfish, all else being equal (size, clarity, cutting). However, in the end, you have to love the color, and if that's the right color for you, instead of what the trade deems "desirable," that's your choice. If you're on a strict budget, perhaps your jeweler can source that color for you, but for less money. I do find the price rather expensive for that stone. JMO.

 

[heyjudes]

If I am reading this correctly, I understand that this color is not on the most desirable list for sapphires - that''s fine with me. And that reason alone will make it less expensive that one of the desirable colors (i.e. cornflower, Kashmir).

Would this be accurate (assuming same level of size, cut, clarity) in terms of market value/price?
Cornflower Blue (unheated) > Cornflower Blue (heated) > Reference Stone (unheated) > Reference Stone (heated)

A few people have mentioned on separate threads that this stone is expensive. Is this just true for the market in general and/or specifically to this stone relative to the rest of Wildfish''s inventory? I have looked for other similar colored blue/green stones but haven''t had any luck locating anything remotely close to this color combination of a high quality and similar weight at any of the usual suspects.

 

[Arcadian]

Date: 3/14/2010 11:58:34 PM
Author: heyjudes
If I am reading this correctly, I understand that this color is not on the most desirable list for sapphires - that''s fine with me. And that reason alone will make it less expensive that one of the desirable colors (i.e. cornflower, Kashmir).

Would this be accurate (assuming same level of size, cut, clarity) in terms of market value/price?
Cornflower Blue (unheated) > Cornflower Blue (heated) > Reference Stone (unheated) > Reference Stone (heated)

A few people have mentioned on separate threads that this stone is expensive. Is this just true for the market in general and/or specifically to this stone relative to the rest of Wildfish''s inventory? I have looked for other similar colored blue/green stones but haven''t had any luck locating anything remotely close to this color combination of a high quality and similar weight at any of the usual suspects.

Some of Ed''s stone''s can be expensive. However, some of them I found them to be within a price point I would pay, I''m admittedly damn tight with my money too.

Also, Ed deals in untreated stones. The other thing is the certification.

Then there''s the peace of mind that you''re getting exactly what you want from a trustworthy source.

The reality is this; you should only spend what you''re comfortable with. If Ed has the stone you want but you feel its out of your reach pricewise, then don''t get it. If you feel like the stone is nice but you''re having doubts about it, keep looking. Look around to find something that fits your personal budget as well as makes you smile when you look at it.

The stone is very unusual in color but I happen to like it, then again, I''m a weird chick.

Pricey? well, colored stone prices can be all over the place. I find that sapphires to be some of the most difficult to figure out next to rubies and pariba tourmalines. Ton of research on this board and all over the internet about the price of sapphires.

If you''d like to see a bit more of this stone, ask Ed to take another picture if possible. He''s pretty amicable that way.

Also, it sometimes helps to see certain stones in person. This sapphire is unusual enough that it may warrant that It may seal the deal for you if you want to keep it or not. I would ask him if its possible.

I would see if this sales person can find what you want within your specs if you''re comfortable working with her. Also, if I wanted a untreated stone, I wouldn''t let somebody push me into a heated one. You''re the one that has to wear it, get what is feasible for you.


This is the stone for your engagement ring and so you''ll be wearing this thing probably most of your life if you don''t switch it for something else (that kinda happens a lot here..lol), so explore all options that are out there.

Please remember that you''re not only paying for the stone, but you''re paying for the buying experience with that particular seller. reputations can help or hurt, happens here all the time. If you don''t mesh with your seller on at a similar level you won''t have a good buying experience. IMO thats just as important as buying your stone.

In closing, do get the stone you that will make you happy so that you won''t be 2nd guessing yourself that you should have gotten something else.


-A

 

[ma re]

Ditto to what Arcadian said. BTW, I don''t know why she would say those things about the cutting. Sure, it''s not comparable to most of cushion cut diamonds, but for a native cut stone I think it''s actually cut very well. I''m no expert, but I think I have a good eye for evaluating such things.

 

[T L]

http://www.ajsgems.com/sapphire/green-blue-green/blue-green-sapphire-3.14-carats.html

Unheated, 3.14 carats, and only $667. It has a small window, but I suspect that would close up in a setting. Very nice stone, and from a reputable dealer. I found this stone in five minutes just searching on "blue green sapphires." His vendor photos are deemed very accurate in color as well.

If it's not the shape you want, you've been given many reputable sellers in your other thread I believe, and you can ask them to source this color for you. Even your jeweler is willing to do that for you, which tells me that this color isn't particularly rare. It's just rare in the marketplace because most people want blue sapphires. Check out multicolour.com too. I didn't, but they may have something similar.

At the end of the day, if only the WF stone "speaks" to you, then buy it.

 

[chrono]

Correct! A blue green sapphire isn’t desired and so it priced less than a pure blue sapphire. And you are correct that it will be less expensive than a pure blue sapphire as well. An unheated blue green will probably cost more than a heated blue green sapphire but I don’t think the price difference will be as great as between an unheated pure blue sapphire and a heated pure blue sapphire. Part of it is due to demand but the main reason is that there is a greater quantity of blue greens that come out of the ground naturally. I disagree about the sloppy faceting on the WF sapphire though. I’ve seen far worse faceting on WF and this is one of the nicer ones.

 

[LD]

Date: 3/14/2010 11:58:34 PM
Author: heyjudes
If I am reading this correctly, I understand that this color is not on the most desirable list for sapphires - that''s fine with me. And that reason alone will make it less expensive that one of the desirable colors (i.e. cornflower, Kashmir).

Would this be accurate (assuming same level of size, cut, clarity) in terms of market value/price?
Cornflower Blue (unheated) > Cornflower Blue (heated) > Reference Stone (unheated) > Reference Stone (heated)

A few people have mentioned on separate threads that this stone is expensive. Is this just true for the market in general and/or specifically to this stone relative to the rest of Wildfish''s inventory? I have looked for other similar colored blue/green stones but haven''t had any luck locating anything remotely close to this color combination of a high quality and similar weight at any of the usual suspects.

Look at it this way ..........

If the colour you like is not one of the most sought after colours, there will be a price difference between heated and unheated but not much.

However, take a top colour heated Kashmir Sapphire and put it next to an unheated top colour Kashmir Sapphire and there will be a huge price difference. The difference is because of the desirability.

If you are going for colour as the first parameter in your search (and most people do) and you have found a colour you love and it just happens not to be top of the desirability list, then go for it and get the best price and cut that you can. You are in the happy position of being able to get a lot of sapphire (hopefully) for your money!

As for certification - It''s then up to you whether you get the sapphire certified. You may feel that for this colour sapphire it''s not worth it - but you may also want peace of mind that what you''ve been sold it what you''ve got!

As your MCFina rep to show you heated and unheated sapphires in the colour you love and then compare them in size, cut and colour to Ed''s. That way, you''ll be able to choose the one that really makes your heart sing!

 

[heyjudes]

Thanks for the link Tourmaline Lover. I did see that stone in AJS''s inventory. It''s pretty but like the rest of blue green sapphires I''ve seen from other popular PS colored stone vendors, they are either too green or too light.

I do love the color of the Wildfish stone. I''m fortunate that budget isn''t really an issue. I guess my biggest concern is that I''m being blindly led by my emotions and because of that I''m not doing an accurate assessment of the stone in terms of value. I realize a some people might say let your emotions guide you with this, but I''ve always been very practical with my money and have the same attitude even towards something like an engagement ring. And since I am aware that I lack a strong base of knowledgeable I prefer to gather information from those of know better. Hence the overly analytical questions.

Thanks so much for all your insights. Ed''s stone does speak to me (especially with the dichronism) but I will keep looking for other stones while also waiting for more pictures from him. I will also take a look at any options the jeweler is able to find for me.

Sorry to keep troubling y''all!!