Clouds are not shown ?.......HELP this could be it !

[betection]

Hello I am looking at a stone which is about 1.20 gia certfied h si2. The cert looks perfect but under the other comments it says "Clouds are not shown "

Will this effect the quality of the diamond????

 

[DiamondExpert]

Probably not more than making it an SI2. It could be that the clouds are incidental, or that they make the clarity grade, but in the latter case a statement is usually made to the effect that "clarity grade is based on clouds not shown".

Teh grader did not bother to plot the clouds because it would make the plot too messy looking.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Interesting Gary.

I was not been aware of this -the comment for the grade maker - so if "clarity grade is based on clouds not shown" was written - it would make me avoid the stone because there is a good chance the transperancy would be reduced. But if it is simply that the clouds were not shown then i agree - it means that a sketch plot could make a nice stone look on paper like an I3.

 

[CaptAubrey]

personally i would be wary of a plot that did not show the grade-setting inclusion.

 

[Magnum]

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On 4/2/2004 7:49:43 PM betection wrote:

Hello I am looking at a stone which is about 1.20 gia certfied h si2. The cert looks perfect but under the other comments it says 'Clouds are not shown '

Will this effect the quality of the diamond????----------------

Question? When you say the cert looks perfect, are you talking about the diagram of the top of the diamond that shows the plot of the inclusions? If you are, than I'm very surprised that there aren't any plots of inclusions for an SI2. I noticed when I was searching for a diamond, when I went to some websites, when I pulled up a copy of the cert, it never showed any inclusions in the plot diagaram. Apparently, the inclusions are normally done in red and on certain scanners, when the documents are scanned into the computer, the red inclusion markings disappear. Even if the red marks are there, that still only gives a general idea of what type of inclusions there are. The inclusions are not meant to be drawn exactly to scale. Anyway, as I said in another thread you started, i think your diamond has the potential to be very beautiful, and an SI2 stone that is eye-clean is an awesome find. I'm just trying to point out some gotcha's, because while you can get a great deal on an SI2 stone, you do need to do some extra investigation to find out if it's eye-clean, whereas in a VS2 stone you're pretty much guaranteed that it's an eye-clean stone, and you pay extra for that reassurance.

 

[betection]

so is there something to worry about the cloud thing?, will the diamond still have its sparkle?

 

[Magnum]

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On 4/3/2004 1:46:29 AM betection wrote:

so is there something to worry about the cloud thing?, will the diamond still have its sparkle?----------------

If it just says, "clouds are not shown" than the clouds are very very minor and it is listed just for informational purposes in an effort to be more precise about all the inclusions not important enough to be shown on the inclusion plot. It will almost definitely not affect the sparkle of the stone. Cut is the main factor that determines a diamond's sparkle. While inclusions can detract from the sparkle, they'd have to be relatively large to affect the light return of the stone. (To see this, do a search for some I2 and I3 clarity stones on EBAY.) I think Diamond Expert was trying to explain that sometimes the comments section can say "clarity grade is based on clouds not shown" and in this case the clouds are not as minor and actually determine the clarity grade the stone is given. I'm pretty sure from what you said, this is not the case here, so you shouldn't have anything to worry about as far as the clouds comment. It will not affect the quality or sparkle of the stone.

 

[Rhino]

First of all you should NEVER purchase a diamond off of paper alone. There are a ton of variables present that can affect the look/beauty of the diamond that can ONLY be assessed upon a physical examination.




Second... I have seen numerous diamonds, that upon physical inspection have been duds where inclusions, graining, clouds, etc. HAVE affected the transparency of the diamond and you would have never known it by just looking at paperwork.




My advice to you is to do business with someone who actually *sees* and *inspects* what it is they are selling and never buy off paper alone. There are a dozens of booby traps along the way and it is best to have a professional step you through this process with their expertise.

 

[Magnum]

First of all, I am not an expert, so I defer to Rhino and apologize if I've not given completely accurate advice. A lot of what I've learned is from reading posts by experts on this site, and I appreciate their contributions. I was under the impression that the comments section was mainly for minor inclusions, but apparently that's not always true. A lot of times there are the exceptions to the rules that only someone who's looked at thousands of stones can really appreciate. Here are a couple of threads that talk about "clouds not shown" and the "comments section"

1/15/2003 "what exactly does clouds not shown mean?" by kayla17

6/12/2001 "What should I be looking for in the comment section" by Captain Ahab

In the first one Rich Sherwood, a respected appraiser said, "Often, major grade setting characteristics are plotted and minor characteristics are noted in comments, but not plotted. That means they were not instrumental in assigning the grade, and noted instead of plotted in the interest of expediency."

I guess I missed the fact that he said "Often" and not always. Oops.

And in the second one David Atlas, another respected appraiser said, "Again, if the cloud is so faint as to be too small to draw or so faint that dotting an outline around it would be artistic overkill, I'd prefer that to one where a cloud is shown via the dotted outline technique. Sometimes the "cloud(s) not shown" is(are) large or the entire stone is cloudy. This is a true dilemma and each diamond must be examined. That's one more reason a Cert does not replace looking at the actual stone..."

So, he confirms that sometimes that comment can be a problem, and echos Rhino's assertion that you must phisically examine the stone.

 

[betection]