Clarity problems

[wordforthis42]

First of all, I''ve been lurking on this forum for a couple of months and have learned a lot, but this is my first time posting. So hello

Three weeks ago I ordered a round ACA VS2 diamond from Whiteflash (mounted in an engagement ring). When I got it I was disappointed to discover that a black speck was visible when the diamond was viewed (unmagnified) from the side. So I called Whiteflash and explained that my goal was to get a diamond that had no (unmagnified) visible inclusions no matter the distance or angle, and they gave me a list of four (three VS2s and one VS1) diamonds that they inspected and determined met my criteria.

I decided to play it safe and go with the VS1, but when I received the new diamond I was again disappointed to discover that two white inclusions are visible, again when looking at it from the side. They can only be seen from a very specific angle and in sunlight, but once you get that angle they''re hard to miss.

Based on everything I''ve read, VS1s (and most VS2s and some SI1s) should not have any visible inclusions, and VVS2s and above are overkill (unless you care about what the diamond looks like under magnification, which I don''t). But now I''m thinking I may need to go with a VVS2. Do you guys think I''m being overly critical with my insistence of not being able to see inclusions from the side? Or do you think I''ve just been unlucky with the VS2 and VS1 diamonds I''ve received? Or maybe I just need to bite the bullet and go with a VSS2?

I''d be tempted to try different VS1/2 diamonds from Whiteflash, except that I''d really like to propose soon and every time I have to exchange one it costs $90.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any thoughts or suggestions...

Steve

 

[angeline]

Clarity is graded in the face-up position. Is it you that is bothered by the clarity or is it that you think your gf will be bothered? How many times do you think you or she will be scrutinising the stone from the side in a specific light at a specific angle anyway? I guess I'm trying to say that for me those clarity issues wouldn't bother me one tiny bit.

However YOU need to be satisified. If it does bother you just knowing they are there then you might be best with a VVS. I try to imagine my ring 1 or 2 or 5 years dwon the track. Will I care about the issues I care about now? or will I care about other issues, like how big it is? LOL! I tend to get caught up initially then after a while the things I htought were so important aren't so much. BUt again, that's just me.

Not a real helpful post really,

!!! (mine i mean,not yours!)

 

[Ellen]

Hi Steve,

I think, if you really can see inclusions in a VS1, you have super human sight.
I have a VS1 and can't even see anything with a loupe.

I'd keep it, I doubt the recipient will see a thing.

 

[decodelighted]

What size diamond are we talking about here ... if you don''t mind me asking?

Personally, I''ve had my e-ring for almost two years now & have never looked at it closely from the side in the sunlight ... magnified or unmagnified. I don''t own a loupe. The stone however is VVS1 so I doubt I''d see anything ... just sayin'' ... you may be overestimating how often the stone is going to be viewed from that position. ALSO -- some people VALUE a way to tell their own stone from others (after repair etc ...) If it''s a super subtle "birthmark" that only you can see ... maybe re-frame your attitude toward it?

If you just don''t like knowing ANYTHING is there -- then bite the bullet & get a VVS ... or an IF.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I would think VS1 inclusions would have to be pretty tiny to be seen from the side. I also like good clarity but I don''t require it to be so perfect that you don''t know it is a real diamond. My ring diamond is VS1, but I don''t think I can see anything from the side. If I were you, I wouldn''t look at anything below VS1. If you don''t want to stick with the diamond you have, you may as well go on up to VVS2 to avoid the return hassle.

 

[wordforthis42]

Thanks for the responses everyone. To answer a couple questions...

How big is it? A little over a carrot. Though now that I''m thinking of going to VVS2, I''m pondering dropping the color from G to H and upping the size from 1 to 1.2 carrots.

Do I have super human sight? I don''t think so... I think I have super human worrying, which causes me to find the one angle and light condition out of a 100 that the inclusions can be seen.

Is the worry over clarity mine or my girlfriend''s? Mostly mine. I don''t need it to be perfect, I only want it to be perfect without the use of a loop. I realize that in some ways it''s silly to worry about imperfections that she might not ever see and wouldn''t care about if she did see, but on the other hand I''m going to be looking at this thing for the next 50 years, and I think day by day knowing that there were visible inclusions that might be seen at any minute would drive me insane. Possibly I need psychiatric help

It sounds like I either need to become less hypercritical and accept the flaws in a VS stone, or upgrade to VVS. Decisions, decisions...

Steve

 

[Independent Gal]

Well, just my two cents here, and everyone is different, but I would SO much rather have a stone with an inclusion that could only be seen with extremely sharp eyes from the side at an angle in the right lighting that was a better colour grade than one that was more yellow. You can SEE the yellow, day -to -day, but you'll never see the inclusion once it's set. So, for me, at least, i would take the VS1 in the higher colour grade in a second. Hands down.

The key thing is, what does SHE want? Which c's are most important to her?

And btw, speaking of c's, a common mistake on here but: karat refers to the purity of gold, carrot refers to delicious orange veggies, and carat refers to the weight of a diamond.

Not the best speller here either, but just FYI.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I''m all for upping the size! If you go to H color, you can probably get an H VVS2 for less than a G VS1. But realize that color is far more visible than a VS1 inclusion. That said, I have H ACA diamonds from WF for my earrings, and I think that color is fine.

 

[Kaleigh]

I''d have Brian eyeball your next choice.

 

[JulieN]

Within the next fifty years, you won''t be able to see the inclusion, anyway.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 8/18/2007 4:23:17 PM
Author: wordforthis42
Do I have super human sight? I don''t think so... I think I have super human worrying, which causes me to find the one angle and light condition out of a 100 that the inclusions can be seen. I think day by day knowing that there were visible inclusions that might be seen at any minute would drive me insane. Possibly I need psychiatric help

Oh I empathize. Know the "super human worrying" thing WELL! Do you want me to help you debunk your own worries ... as a *cough* therapist would!

There are learned coping mechanisms that can help you work yourself through these things. One is "is it true? is it realistic? or am I making this up -- catastrophizing it?"

You say: knowing for fifty years that visible incusions might be seen at any minute would drive me insane.

Piece that apart:

1. Will you be looking at it fifty years from now? Or might it be subject to loss or theft or the "upgrade bug"?

2. Will you be as focused on how her stone looks once your lives get busy with wedding planning or post-wedding LIFE?

3. In her day to day life -- how often will people be looking at her ring once the initial engagement fever passes? And from how close? Across the room? I''d say someone asks to see my ring close up maybe twice a year? Can you make it through 100 times of close inspection? Would 10% of those people "catch" the inculsion? 2% ... is it worth __$ and __ time to avoid 2-10 people maybe thinking they see "something"?

4. What about when the ring gets dirty ... plenty of stuff will look like "inclusions" or muck ... it''s hard to keep rings spotless in day to day life! How will it look covered in dog slobber & crumbs?

5. What if someone did see "something" ... would you really care? What would that say about YOU or about THEM? Why on earth would anybody be looking THAT closely at someone elses jewelry?? Really?

That''s just an exercise -- a little outside perspective from someone who battles these types of thoughts & issues EVERY FREAKIN DAY .... and who has no vested interest in your decision!

(Other than a desire to see pix!!

)

 

[Fly Girl]

I do look at my diamond from the side...a lot. It is because of the setting, and when my hand is naturally cupped in my lap, I can see cleanly through the diamond. It is an F VS2, and frankly, I''m glad it is colorless, because I would be able to make out any slight tint. I can''t make out any inclusions, and I know there are several small black ones which I can see only with a loupe.

Much less will be visible in your diamond once it is set. It may be completely impossible to view the stone from an angle to see those white inclusions in that VS1. If knowing they are still there bothers you, you should exchange it. Otherwise, you can discuss it with a jeweler or appraiser to help determine if the inclusions will ever be visible once the diamond is set.

By the way, I think it is really nice to have a diamond that is clear and colorless. It is a matter of degree as to what that means to each person.

 

[WorkingHardforSmallRewards]

Hey, well, other than the size (mine was .61ct) I am a whole lot like you. I had initially chosen a VS2 to begin with thinking that it should be totally eyeclean, and what did I find, a black speck from the side! that was way too much for me in an Ering--especially as against a light color backgroun it was exceptionally easy to see.

I was then going to up to VS1, but while browsing I came across a diamond with a an inclusion chart that really enticed me. It was a VS2 as well, but it had no inclusions under the table. It only had one inclusion drawn which was a cloud over one of the side facets of the diamond. I called up and asked them to check it out for me. It came back as a white inclusion color cloud and they said it was eyeclean from all angles.
but I asked them about it some more, I was very very specific as to how I wanted the clarity checked, I told them that when I got it I would be scrutinizing it very closely and I simply did not want to see any inclusuion so I told them to please make sure, because I really wanted to keep that one and propose with it. After addressing the issue several times they decided to have it shipped to there gemologist who inspected it to make sure I would be happy with it. (I was workign with James Allen in maryland and the stone was kept in there New York holding location) She inspected it and said there was no way I would see it, I still had doubts though!

but I gave it a chance. It came to me and under intensive close inspection it was impossible to find. In fact, it took me several weeks to actual master finding the inclusion with the loupe, and now that I know how to find it I have looked at it from whatever angles I can find it with the loupe and then pull back and look at it with my naked eyes..nothing.

From my own experiences I can gurantee you that it is possible to find such diamonds, but it is all giong to come down to the type, color and location of the inclusiosn. with my diamond, from the face up position with a loupe it is almost impossible to find the inclusions under any normal type of lighting circumstance. The cloud consist of about 10 tiny little specks spread throughout one of the facets, but in and of themselves each one is EXTREMELLY tiny. thus if the light is causing for any kind of sparkle or reaction from the diamond the inclusion suddenly disspears. In order to find it you ahev to have a very nonreactive dull, grading type lighting and you have to look at it from directly above--then it is fairly apprant. But because the inclusions are each so small and they are off to the side of the diamond and they are white inclusions you can not see it with your naked eyes.

However, if you had one larger inclusion setting the grade right under the table it could be reflecting around the diamond and even if it was white you might see it at certain angles and against certain color backgrounds--black inclusions certainly have a chance of being noticed against lighter color backgrounds, such as the sky, so I personally steered away from any type of black inclusion after my initial purchase.

If you follow this link there will be a link in my initial post that will lead you to the diamond that I purchased. There you can see an example of what I mean by lookign for particularly nice visual inclusions. Inclusions that wont affect perforamnce, are off to the side, not refelecting, consist of several very small ones so that none of them individually are visible to the naked eye, and are white or clear. The other key, I believe, is to look for a diamond who does not have any, or has very few, inclusions in the pavilion side image. If the grade setting VS2 inclusion is as described above and only visible in the crown portion of the diagram, it should be quite nice visually.


using mine as an example here

I also had an H color initially and noticed the warmth pretty easily and so uped my color grade as well--and now looking at H colors is very obvious to my eyes. Thus, I propose in a surprise Ering where you do not know how she feels about color and warmth in diamonds (warmth is certainly not always a bad thing though, I kind of like just a little bit of it myself) you would be better off as the above people suggested, keeping the clarity grade where she will certainly never find the inclusion and the higher color...unless you are really going to up the size...in that case the H color is probably worth it, but for a surprise Ering I wouldnt suggest any lower unless she has put out some type of indication she really wants to emphasize size, but thats my opinion.