Circe: Can We Talk E-cigs?

[luckystar112]

So, I found a forum, did some research, put down $60 for a starter kit, and now I''m just waiting for my new e-cig to get here.

Of COURSE, that''s when I stumbled upon the FDA report on e-cigs that just came out a few days ago. The tested "Nglo" (which I think I remember reading is the brand that you purchased) as well as "SmokeEverywhere". Apparently they found the carcinogen diethylene glycol and another ingredient that is in antifreeze. And now I''m kind of scared....which sounds so ridiculous since real cigarettes contain over 60 carcinogens as well as a whole lot of other junk.

But apparently the state of Oregon has banned them outright!

So, I don''t really know what the point of this post is, other than to discuss it with someone. Of course, the forum I went to is in a frenzy about how it isn''t fair for the FDA to throw all e-cigs under the same blanket when only diethylene glycol was only found in the "smoke everywere" brand. And of course there is the other conspiracy theories surrounding Big Tobacco''s influence, the fear of a loss of millions in tax money, as well as the fear that the many flavors of vapor may be attractive to youths.

As for the latter, it sounds like it''s the main reason the American Lung Association, the American Cancer Society and others are refusing to back the product--they''re afraid that smoking will become "cool" again and kids will become addicted to nicotine.

BUT it seems like many of the companies are offering statements about their products that haven''t been proven--such as that it''s safer than smoking (which can very well be assumed) and that it''s an effective quitting tool.

So....I don''t know what to think. I''m usually the girl who refuses to take any new medications for fear of growing a new arm or suffering from some horrible disease years down the road. I''d love to get your opinion!

In case you''re wondering, I chose the Yeti brand because I heard that it produces the best vapor and you can get a bunch of different flavors. Apparently the Nglo has pre-filled cartridges? My starter kit has pre-filled ones also but I''m hoping to move on to the empty ones in the future so I can try out a bunch of different flavors.

I''d love to hear what you think about all these things!

 

[brightlight]

I was going to buy one for a family member but also saw the FDA report a couple weeks ago on CNBC.

 

[ladypirate]

When did Oregon ban them? I just saw them being sold in the mall a couple of weeks ago.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

The mall by me sells them too. They guys at the kiosk stand there like they''re beyond Kool. I think they''re promoting actual ciggarette usage by standing their posing while blowing out smoke.

 

[luckystar112]

Date: 8/7/2009 9:18:04 PM
Author: ladypirate
When did Oregon ban them? I just saw them being sold in the mall a couple of weeks ago.

On July 31st. Here''s a link. They specifically banned the Nglo brand of e-cigarettes.
It''s pretty interesting actually. The FDA studied only two companies (Nglo and SmokeEverywhere)--the results showed the diethylene glycol in ONLY the SE brand and ONLY when using the "juice" (the liquid in the cartridges) with the highest level of nicotine (there are several types/flavors of juices with varying levels of nicotine in them--people who smoke 3 packs a day will go for a juice with very high nicotine concentration). Despite the fact that they didn''t find the chemical in the Nglo brand, the Attorney General in Oregon banned the sale of their e-cigs because "if companies want to sell their electronic cigarettes to consumers, they have to be able to prove that they are safe". REGULAR cigarettes with over 60 cancer-causing agents can still be bought and sold though.

Brightlight: Don''t give up on them yet. The FDA has only issued a warning (that they sat on for over TWO months). Also, they have NOT compared them to regular cigarettes--which is what we should be waiting for!
E-cigs are relatively new, and there is a whole lot of ignorance that seems to be going along with that. For example, a man being ARRESTED for smoking an e-cig while driving a tanker.

No flame=no combustion issues!
I freaked myself out a little bit earlier but the more research I do the more bogus this seems. The AHA, ALA and ACS seem to be less peeved with the fact that this is a alternative/quit-smoking device and MORE peeved with the fact that you can buy a multitude of flavors for the device--with or without nicotine. Their argument seems to be that flavors like "bubble gum" and "chocolate" glorify smoking--and that the physical use of the e-cig may make it "cool" again when their aim is to get people to stop smoking altogether.

 

[luckystar112]

Bumping for Circe, in case she ever come online again....

And adding that I got my e-cigarette in the mail today! I''ve already tried it out, and whoooooaaaaaa. Weird. haha. It''s like a cigarette, but not.

 

[luckystar112]

Last bump for Circe (I swear

).
Edit: I just saw. Sorry for the selfish post. Feel free to ignore!

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 8/11/2009 4:50:31 PM
Author: luckystar112
Last bump for Circe (I swear

).

Lucky, Circe has been going through a difficult time. She has a thread on FHH.

 

[luckystar112]

I know. I saw immediately after, and now of course I feel like an idiot.

 

[Circe]

Hey, LuckyStar, don''t feel bad - you couldn''t have known, and I don''t mind being joshed a little. Generally, I''m always checking in on PS, and always really happy to talk about the e-cigs, which I still think are the bee''s knees.

I think the problem with the whole "the e-cigs contain an ingredient found in anti-freeze!" argument is that it conflates an ingredient with a separate substance. You know what else is in anti-freeze? Sugar. Among other things. And yet, somehow, we''ve managed to avoid panicking over the ingestion of sugar ....

I think your basic premise, that cigarettes are significantly worse than e-cigs, is very much on-target. I also think that the patch, nicotine gum, and Chantix are all considerably worse: their potential (note: POTENTIAL, since I know that some people do very well with all of these) side effects include ODing, heart palpitations, and thoughts of suicide. But they all also have heavy-duty drug company sponsors, which the e-cigs do not, as yet. Not to sound like a conspiracy nut, mind ... I just do find it mildly amusing that cigarettes themselves are legal, but we''re seeing panic over substitutes which have been approved in Japan, England, and Italy for 3 years+ now (all countries which have better track records than America when it comes to keeping their citizens safe from weird pseudo-medical solutions).

At the end of the day, here''s what I know: my husband, a chemical engineer and a very suspicious guy, researched these and thought they were okay, not just for me, but for me (sans nicotine) when I was pregnant. So did my psychologist, my therapist, and two separate gynecologists (and also, somewhat randomly, a dentist and a couple of other scientists). These are all people who have my best interests at heart. I know, personally, that I did very well tapering down from the stronger e-cig strengths to the no-nicotine strength, and that I''d *tried* quitting before, and failed, even in the face of asthma, bronchitis, and the general knowledge that smoking is stupid and harmful (and, I say in all modesty, I''m a smart lady who cares deeply about her family and her own health in relation to them). So, at the end of the day ... I think they''re a fantastic invention, and I''m really happy to talk to you about them and how they work, if you have any questions, or if anybody else here does.

P.S. - The ones I use are actually N-Joy. I''ve never heard of N-Glo ... I did buy the Mini-Cigs at first, and they''re safe, too, from what I''ve heard. I passed those on to my dad after he expressed curiousity but not a determination to stick to them, and he''s finding them to be useful, but not entirely satisfying (may buy him the N-Joy to see if that makes a difference).

P.P.S - T_Gal, thank you for thinking of me.

 

[Circe]

My turn to bump (

), since I do want Lucky to a) not feel bad at all about kidding around, and b) get an answer to her question.

 

[luckystar112]

Circe, thank you so much for replying!

I totally meant "Njoy" in my post about--I don''t know where I got "Nglo". Kind of sounds like a jheri curl product or something doesn''t it? haha

It does make me feel better to know that your DH is a chemist and has researched them thoroughly--as well as all of the other confirmations you got from others. I guess it''s weird that I''m worrying so much about what I may be inhaling in this thing when I''m been sucking on cigs for years!

The e-cig I got is called the "Yeti" a.k.a the "Titan" or Dura 510. I chose it because it seemed to be the most popular on an e-cig forum and I heard it produces a lot of vapor. I like it so far. Of course, the morning I got it I had just purchased a pack of cigarettes. lol. But it''s cool. The starter kit comes with pre-filled cartridges in tobacco flavor and it''s okay, but I think I want something different.

The forum I went to had an incredibly long (1 hour) video that tells you everything you need to know about e-cigs and she said that since you will never find anything that is "just like" a cigarette you should experiment with flavors. So today I ordered some empty cartridges and strawberry flavored juice. I can''t wait for it to get here so I can try it! There are a million flavors out there!

I''m still new to the whole e-cig thing but it''s pretty cool so far. The hardest part has been trying to figure out how long to do it. And holding it is pretty weird--my model has a manual battery (I hold a little button down) and so it''s positioned weird in my hand--not at all like a cigarette.

With the study that the FDA did--it''s clear that the issue has more to do with the juice and not the device itself, don''t you think? There are so many vendors for different nicotine juices that I think one could get in trouble if they purchase from the wrong company. I also wonder about the chemicals produced by the device itself (the atomizer, etc).

 

[Sharon101]

Guys I just want to add that I smoked like the devil for almost 30 years. I was super addicted and could not stop even for my kids.

I would always find a way to smoke secretly. My loyalty and addiction to cigarettes knew no bounds or limmits.

Trust me when I tell you I tried every trick and gimmick on the market from stop smoking drugs, hypnosis to expensive prescription gum and other substitutes. In the end I resigned myself to the fact that I would never give up....and I made my peace with this and accepted that this is just who I was and people do worse etc etc. Plus every smoker knows one person who smoked 2 packs a day and lived to 100 plus we all know at least one person who never smoked, excersised like crazy, did all the right things and got hit by a bus/ heart attack etc etc!

Anyway, long story short is a book found its way into my life without me searching for it.

Allen Carr- Easy Way to Stop Smoking.

It worked without once telling me to quite. Infact it encourages you to smoke while reading it! It was like a miricle as I had no withdrawals and it took me back to where I was before I had ever even touched a ciggi!

Google it to see just how effective this book is. Its the single biggest thing that ever changed my life!!!!

 

[luckystar112]

I have that book Sharon!

Yup, getting dusty in the ole'' storage closet.

I heard that it works if you actually read the whole thing, but I tried reading it THREE times and I just got so bored with it. It''s funny because I even read all of the reviews that were like, "I stopped reading halfway through and still continued to smoke. Then I got up the nerve to really sit down and read the whole thing and it has changed my life!"
I do remember that he had some interesting tidbits about nicotine in there and I was shocked when he pointed out that many of the reaons we smoke make no sense because they are complete opposites (like to get motivated to do something AND to relax).
I think where he lost me though, was when he was talking about how one guy explained to him that he likes the feeling of inhaling in the cigarette. He kind of blew it off by saying, "You mean the feeling of suffocating yourself, yeah, great!" and I wanted a better explanation for that--because as gross as it sounds I feel like I can relate to that. The e-cig fulfills that (admittedly gross) longing to inhale, so that''s good.
Now that I think about it, I should whip out Allen Carr''s book WHILE using the e-cig!

 

[Circe]

Heh, I have the Allan Carr book, too - and while it sort of worked for me, I was like Lucky in that I just *could not* get through it. I was reading it right around the time when I heard about the e-cigs, though, so I''m sure it helped to solidify my desire to quit ....

Lucky, the kind of e-cig that you got sounds completely new and kind of fascinating to me: could you post a link? I thought about getting the kind you could refill yourself (sounds so much cheaper!), but at the end of the day, I realized I just didn''t have the patience or energy: I''m okay with the pre-filled ones that N-Joy puts out in terms of cost and quality (btw, they completely and specifically repudiate any claims of DG in their product, if you google for it and them in conjunction, and I''ve only seen vague newspaper reports to the contrary, so make of that what you will). The claim that the flavors will tempt kids ... I kind of have trouble taking them seriously. When I was a kid, I thought smoking was stupid and grotesque looking, and it was only homesickness and peer pressure that tempted me to the contrary, and as for the flavors themselves ... vague, vague, vague. NO ONE would smoke these for the flavor ....

I also have to say, possibly this is psychological, but I found the N-Joy to be well measured. Their medium strength really tasted the same as the high, but I''d find myself smoking 1 and a third time as many until I made myself taper and get used to it, same for the low strength. Lucky, I really hope these work for you!

 

[luckystar112]

Here is the link to the Yeti
Here

The reason why I didn''t go with Njoy is because it seemed so expensive, but looking at it now it appears that you get 10 cartridges per pack instead of 5, so I guess it evens out. How long does it take you to get through one cartridge? It doesn''t seem to take that long for me, but I''m still trying to figure out if it''s because I''m smoking a lot or if there is something wrong with the atomizer...I''ve been having a hard time getting a good vapor going with it (and this model is known for its vapor) so I''m thinking I may buy some new atomizers and see what happens.

The batteries on the Yeti run out really fast, so I''m thinking about purchasing one of those chargers that use a USB port to plug into my computer. But, I''ve been trying to be "normal" in terms of where and when I "smoke". For instance, I still go outside! I know that seems weird but I figure I''ll wean myself off of the nicotine first and the habits afterward. Using an e-cig at my computer won''t do anything--I''ll still feel like I need to go outside and smoke.

I don''t know if I''ll save any money by putting in my own juice but that would be a real plus! I just figured I''d see what a new flavor is like. On the forum that I went to it seems like there are some people who get REALLY into it--they have several different devices/flavors/etc. But I''m sort of scared of handing the juice because it can be extrememly dangerous. It would be just like me to get the juice on my finger and then accidentally rub my eye or something. I got the juice at totallywicked-eliquid.com and I noticed they have a Marlboro flavor. haha. I don''t mind the tobacco flavor that the Yeti came with but I figure if its never going to taste like a Camel 9 (my brand of choice) I might as well get something good!

Yeah, I read the "true" breakdown of the FDA report and they found the DG in SmokeEverywhere''s juice with the highest concentration of nicotine. They didn''t find any harmful chemicals in the Njoy, so it sucks that the FDA decided to throw a blanket on all e-cigs by that one result. Njoy was the brand specifically banned in Oregon though.

There could be a million reasons why the FDA is deciding to act this way, but my best guess is a mixture of the tax money that could potentially be lost, pressure from big tobacco, and/or their fear of kids using it. But it''s so ridiculous to even think of--since the device itself costs around $50! What''s easier to get, and e-cig or a real pack of cigarettes?!

I hope it works and I KNOW it will work. I can just tell! It''s a perfect replacement. I''ve been supplementing with real cigs for the last couple of days but I plan on weaning myself off of them. On the e-smoking forum they mentioned that a real cigarette will completely gross you out after a while (especially if you switch to flavors). I believe it! In July we went to Virginia for a week and I didn''t smoke at all. But of course, as soon as I got back I was curious to see if it was going to be gross. It was. I felt like I was going to DIE. It was so gross and I was convinced I was about to have a heart attack.

And then I smoked another cigarette. And another. And another. And here I am. So the e-cig is a really cool alternative.

Side note: I typed out this hugely long email about e-cigs to my friend Rob who smokes like 2 packs a day. He wrote back and said "I can''t tell if you really like these things or if you''re selling them--which is it?"
hahaha

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 8/13/2009 11:05:01 AM
Author: luckystar112
I have that book Sharon!

Yup, getting dusty in the ole'' storage closet.

I heard that it works if you actually read the whole thing, but I tried reading it THREE times and I just got so bored with it. It''s funny because I even read all of the reviews that were like, ''I stopped reading halfway through and still continued to smoke. Then I got up the nerve to really sit down and read the whole thing and it has changed my life!''
I do remember that he had some interesting tidbits about nicotine in there and I was shocked when he pointed out that many of the reaons we smoke make no sense because they are complete opposites (like to get motivated to do something AND to relax).
I think where he lost me though, was when he was talking about how one guy explained to him that he likes the feeling of inhaling in the cigarette. He kind of blew it off by saying, ''You mean the feeling of suffocating yourself, yeah, great!'' and I wanted a better explanation for that--because as gross as it sounds I feel like I can relate to that. The e-cig fulfills that (admittedly gross) longing to inhale, so that''s good.
Now that I think about it, I should whip out Allen Carr''s book WHILE using the e-cig!

Oh you`re a tuff one!!!! And yes his command of the english language is slightly childish sometimes!!!! But the dude saved my life and for that I owe him big time!!!!!

If I can play devil`s advocite for a moment. And without wanting to contradict you I want to say that as someone who hasnt smoked now for over 2 years (after being a hard core smoker since I was about 14) I have no desires to inhale anything per say!!!!

We smokers really arent addicted to inhaling....we are addicted to the nicoteine. I have no longing to inhale and neither do other people who dont smoke. The inhaling is just what we do to get the nicoteine hit!!!!

I used to be so addicted that I would feel like a ciggie even while I was smoking. Sometimes I didnt remember that I had finished a cig. that I had smoked as my need for more and more just kept growing. I also started having bouts of extreem sicknesses that always went straight to my lungs, so I was always battling chest infections etc. And even that level of sickness did not deter me from my `love` of smoking. But it was just my body wanting nicoteine more than that I had to inhale something. For me the empty pretend cigarettes sort of teased my body and did not help me quit. And for the record I used to use the patches while I was flying because I really couldnt handle not smoking.

To be honest I dont know how the book worked as no other self help book has ever worked for me for anything!!! So its not like I have faith in books to change your life or anything like that. I tried his book for weight loss but that didnt work at all. But i hold nothing against him because he really saved my life Im sure of it.

I di know others who successfully quite too from his book but you have to buy the book. For people I gave the book to it didnt help them because they werent really taking it seriously? The last thing that I will say is that I really appreciated how he lets you smoke as much as possible while reading his book and that he was a huge smoker himself.

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 8/13/2009 7:20:45 PM
Author: Circe
Heh, I have the Allan Carr book, too - and while it sort of worked for me, I was like Lucky in that I just *could not* get through it. I was reading it right around the time when I heard about the e-cigs, though, so I'm sure it helped to solidify my desire to quit ....

Lucky, the kind of e-cig that you got sounds completely new and kind of fascinating to me: could you post a link? I thought about getting the kind you could refill yourself (sounds so much cheaper!), but at the end of the day, I realized I just didn't have the patience or energy: I'm okay with the pre-filled ones that N-Joy puts out in terms of cost and quality (btw, they completely and specifically repudiate any claims of DG in their product, if you google for it and them in conjunction, and I've only seen vague newspaper reports to the contrary, so make of that what you will). The claim that the flavors will tempt kids ... I kind of have trouble taking them seriously. When I was a kid, I thought smoking was stupid and grotesque looking, and it was only homesickness and peer pressure that tempted me to the contrary, and as for the flavors themselves ... vague, vague, vague. NO ONE would smoke these for the flavor ....

I also have to say, possibly this is psychological, but I found the N-Joy to be well measured. Their medium strength really tasted the same as the high, but I'd find myself smoking 1 and a third time as many until I made myself taper and get used to it, same for the low strength. Lucky, I really hope these work for you!

Circe, dont worry, the book will always be there if you ever want or need to read it again. I read it very slowly over a period of many months. My resistance to quitting was very strong. I am addictive by nature and am happy to not have ever gotten into harder drugs or gambling etc.

It was a huge shock to me that I quit as I didnt believe I ever could. I used to say that if I had to suffer another day of withdrawals quitting I `d rather just die because for me they were too painful. I sort of knew that for me smoking was all about feeding the beast because I could tell the time by my withdrawals!!!! I had to have a ciggie every 2 hours no matter what. My whole day evolved around being able to find a safe place to smoke every 2 hours. I was really a slave to the ciggies but I accepted that this was my life and there was no way I was going to suffer through the pain of quitting.

What intregued me about the book was his promice of getting me to a place that I was before my first puff. I think deep down every smoker wants to be able to give them away but cant because the pain of giving up seems too much. I also think that less people would take the first puff if they knew they would still be doing it 20 or 30 years latter!!!!

I remember when I was young, & thinking that I could give up anytime. Its very interesting actually how we smoke for so long, intelligence seems to not help either, as logic is thrown out the window with us smokers!!!!