Chubb vs. Jeweler''s Mutual

[BluePea]

I am looking for insurance for my engagement ring, and I was wondering if anybody has any thoughs on which of Chubb and Jeweler''s Mutual is better.

I live in New York, so it''s going to be expensive, and we don''t have a homeowner''s or renter''s policy, so it will have to be a standalone policy. Also if anything, God forbid, happens to the ring, I would just want to replace it.

I understand that it''s somewhat difficult to find a Chubb agent that offers standalone policies for jewelry. Is it worth to go through the trouble? Are there any advantages of Chubb over JM that I should consider?

 

[ame]

I went with Chubb because I like that they just give me a check for the appraised and insured value and I can replace it how I choose to, or not do so at all.

JM doesn''t do that and you have to use their authorized jewelers which get some kind of kickback for doing the cheapest fix possible.

 

[BluePea]

I thought that JM allows you to use the original jeweler from whom you got the ring, or another jeweler, but they pay them directly, rather than giving you a check - is this not the case?

 

[skimmy]

i went with chubb...but at the end it was purely a financial decision.

i live in nyc as well and the quote for jeweler''s mutual was much higher. i like the fact that chubb writes you a check but jeweler''s mutual also lets you go back to the jeweler of your choice, which is nice. i considered jeweler''s mutual OVER chubb b/c they came HIGHLY recommended from my appraiser.

just my 2cents...

 

[ame]

In my experience with them you have to use a jeweler they have an "arrangment" with.

 

[skimmy]

i wonder if that''s changed...i just checked their website and it says "your preferred jeweler."

 

[kaylagee]

We have a Chubb jewelery policy for my ering and some blanket coverage for other pieces, watches etc. It was cheaper than the rider with Allstate. I''m not familiar with JM... I just liked what I''ve heard about Chubb''s claim routine.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:44 AM
Author: ame

JM doesn''t do that and you have to use their authorized jewelers which get some kind of kickback for doing the cheapest fix possible.

Ame,

That simply is not true. Jeweler''s mutual will send you to a jeweler who insures with JM, and will normally direct you to the one who sold you the ring and they will pay that jeweler to do the replacement in LIKE KIND. In other words equal to what you had. If you had an EightStar they will replace with an EightStar. Who better to replace with an equal to or better than item than the jeweler who sold it to you originally. In the event that you do not want to use that jeweler for some reason you can go to another JM jeweler who will be very happy to replace your item with an item of equal or greater value. I have NEVER been pressured by JM to do the cheapest fix possible.

The comment about kickbacks is so off track that I wonder if you thought about that comment before making it. It is very offensive to all of us who work hard to provide quality jewelry and who happen to be covered by JM. JM pays me to do a replacement at my cost plus a percentage markup based on the dollar figure of my cost. I must provide them with my invoices from my suppliers and they then send me the appropriate payment. This markup is significantly lower than the normal retail markup for a jeweler and jewelers agree to it primarily as a service to their clientele. We receive nothing for selling the policy and fortunately it is rare when we actually have a loss on one, but it is a great service to our clients when they can come in to us without hassle and have their item repaired or replaced.

I would urge you to think about what you have said and consider not making such disparaging comments in a public forum without first finding out if they are at all truthful. In this case the comment simply is not factual and is a demeaning comment to thousands of hard working jewelers offering a low profit service to their clientele.

Wink

 

[ame]

Date: 3/18/2005 9:43:19 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/16/2005 10:23:44 AM

Author: ame


JM doesn''t do that and you have to use their authorized jewelers which get some kind of kickback for doing the cheapest fix possible.

Ame,

That simply is not true. Jeweler''s mutual will send you to a jeweler who insures with JM, and will normally direct you to the one who sold you the ring and they will pay that jeweler to do the replacement in LIKE KIND. In other words equal to what you had. If you had an EightStar they will replace with an EightStar. Who better to replace with an equal to or better than item than the jeweler who sold it to you originally. In the event that you do not want to use that jeweler for some reason you can go to another JM jeweler who will be very happy to replace your item with an item of equal or greater value. I have NEVER been pressured by JM to do the cheapest fix possible.

The comment about kickbacks is so off track that I wonder if you thought about that comment before making it. It is very offensive to all of us who work hard to provide quality jewelry and who happen to be covered by JM. JM pays me to do a replacement at my cost plus a percentage markup based on the dollar figure of my cost. I must provide them with my invoices from my suppliers and they then send me the appropriate payment. This markup is significantly lower than the normal retail markup for a jeweler and jewelers agree to it primarily as a service to their clientele. We receive nothing for selling the policy and fortunately it is rare when we actually have a loss on one, but it is a great service to our clients when they can come in to us without hassle and have their item repaired or replaced.

I would urge you to think about what you have said and consider not making such disparaging comments in a public forum without first finding out if they are at all truthful. In this case the comment simply is not factual and is a demeaning comment to thousands of hard working jewelers offering a low profit service to their clientele.


Wink

I just repeated what 2 different jewelers told us and what my folks'' jeweler told them (after they suffered a loss and JM refused to replace for like kind). All stopped using JM and switched to promoting chubb instead. Whether or not it''s true I repeated what I was told, more than once, by three different sources.

And contrary to what you might think, I didn''t mean for it to be a slam on you or any of the other vendors. In my experience it''s not demeaning because when 3 well-respected local jewelers tell me that, it seems like it just might have some credibility.

 

[WinkHPD]

I can not know what happened with the cases you were told about, but it is completely different than any experience that I have had with Jewelers Mutual.

Getting paid for work that I do is not "getting some kind of kickback". That is the phrase that lit my ire as it does reflect on me as a jeweler who carries his insurance with JM and who does do replacement work for them from time to time. It implies that I am doing something unethical just by association and it stings.

I know some of the people in the home office as they are the ones that I deal with when I do a replacement and I can emphatically say that something like what you have been told is completely foreign to my experiences. I will tell them of this thread and let them know that someone somewhere is screwing up and ask them to look into it, because company policy is NOT what you are describing. Such outrageoius conduct should have been reported to the states insurance commission in the state where this occured.

I appreciate that you did not mean to slam me personally.

Wink

 

[claimsjeff]

First let me say that I am very sorry that I have not waded in earlier...but very honestly I have been handling claims for our customers. Second, thank you to those of you for the kind words. Third, I guarantee you that we will replace your items with exactly what you had before up to your policy limit. Keep in mind some items that are crafted/designed pieces are unique and may need to be replaced by the artist. Finally, you can go to any jeweler you want to for replacement...I don''t care if they are in the mall, mainstreet, or out of their house. Keep in mind, it is the easiest for the customer and us if you go back to the jeweler where you purchased the item or the person that appraised it, but you don''t have too. People move all over the U.S. or decide they want to go to another jeweler and that is fine.

In the future, for those that have the wrong information, I would appreciate a direct contact since poor recommendations by individuals that lack the proper knowledge reflects poorly on that individual as well as the rest of the industry.

If there is any additional information that I can provide, please do not hesitate to contact me at 1-800-336-5642 or via e-mail at [email protected].

Thanks
Jeff A. Mills
Vice President Claims

 

[icelady]

Hi Wink and Jeff,

Thank you for clearing the air concerning how JM works. Frankly, the only reason I went with Chubb was because they would write the check to me allowing me to go where I wanted to in order to replace my jewelry. It sounds as though JM does the same thing, but instead JM will pay the jeweler to replace the item.

One comment regarding the documentation on a jewelry item being insured. I think it is very important to give the insurance company as much information on the piece being insured as possible. This will ensure that the item is replace with a ''like'' item.

Thanks again!

 

[sparklefan]

Jeff,

If a stone is purchased from an online vendor, will Jewelers Mutual allow you to use that online vendor in the event a repair or replacement is needed?

 

[bobswench]

I went with Chubb. It was a little difficult finding a Chubb agent that would write a stand alone policy, but I think it was worth it. Chubb offered several different ways to slice and dice payments if paying a lump sum in advance wasn''t my first choice. In addition, they have a very user friendly website and I can manage my account and make payments online.

I don''t know anything about JM, but I would encourage you to compare both and see which gives you the most bang for the buck

Good luck!

 

[NyssaLynne]

I live in Ohio and JM was more expensive than Chubb for my city/county. I also like that I would get a check because I probably would choose a whole new setting if anything happened to my ring. I like getting new things and often find new settings that I like better than what I currently have. I am an upgrade princess...not a queen though...there are others around PS that deserve that title more than me.

You know who you all are.

When selecting my Chubb agent I wrote down all the agents listed in my area that were close to my work in case I had to physically go there to sign anything. The first one I called was not in the office yet. The second one I called said there would be no problem writing a policy for me. She even handled everything over the phone and by fax, so I never had to go to the office in person. That was convenient and I really appreciated it.

In the end the Chubb policy was only $36 more than the cost to add a rider onto my homeowner''s policy. I thought that amount was well worth the extra benefits that I was getting.

 

[nicoly]

I was wondering if anyone could recommend a specific chiubb agent in nyc that would offer a standalone policy? I have called many, and they said that they do not offere a standalone policy.... Any assitance is appreciated!

 

[moolman]

The main difference I found was that Chubb lets you insure for the purchase price and JM you must insure for the appraised price. Because of this, the insurance costs the same, sure with JM you are getting more coverage money wise but if Chubb gives me a check for the purchase price, I can find the exact thing at the same price.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/20/2005 3:28:47 AM
Author: moolman
The main difference I found was that Chubb lets you insure for the purchase price and JM you must insure for the appraised price. Because of this, the insurance costs the same, sure with JM you are getting more coverage money wise but if Chubb gives me a check for the purchase price, I can find the exact thing at the same price.

DANGER!

Very real scenario.

You purchase today a diamond, xyz cut, color, clarity for $10, 250 from an internet vendor who is working on 5 - 10% markup.

Now, clever you, you purchase a cash value policy at $10,250. Over the next two years there is a 15% appreciation in the cost of those diamonds, and being human you just never got around to updating the value on your policy. Now your dealer can no longer even buy your diamond at the amount you are going to receive, let alone sell it to you for that price.

Oops.

Wink

 

[icelady]

Date: 3/20/2005 11:17:16 AM
Author: Wink

Date: 3/20/2005 3:28:47 AM
Author: moolman
The main difference I found was that Chubb lets you insure for the purchase price and JM you must insure for the appraised price. Because of this, the insurance costs the same, sure with JM you are getting more coverage money wise but if Chubb gives me a check for the purchase price, I can find the exact thing at the same price.

DANGER!

Very real scenario.

You purchase today a diamond, xyz cut, color, clarity for $10, 250 from an internet vendor who is working on 5 - 10% markup.

Now, clever you, you purchase a cash value policy at $10,250. Over the next two years there is a 15% appreciation in the cost of those diamonds, and being human you just never got around to updating the value on your policy. Now your dealer can no longer even buy your diamond at the amount you are going to receive, let alone sell it to you for that price.

Oops.

Wink

Wait a minute here. I thought you said earlier that JM pays the jeweler a small percentage over the cost for replacement and repair. If that is the case, then possibly the customer is being asked to pay insurance on the inflated ''appraisal'' value, when in fact it may cost them no where near that amount to settle a claim.

Please be careful not to imply that Chubb does not take jewelry appreciation into account. The following is a direct quote from my Chubb policy (under the "Payment for a Loss - Amount of coverage")...

"To help you maintain an appropriate amount of coverage, if itemized jewelry is shown in your Coverage Summary, we increase the amount of coverage for each article of itemized jewelry annually by a percentage based on industry trends for jewelry values plus, if you request, an additional percentage amount."

The above is directly from my policy.

I chose Chubb in part because of the direct payment to me allowing me the freedom to go anywhere I needed to in order to replace my jewelry. I also chose Chubb because they wanted me to pay my premium based upon the replacement value. Prior to Chubb, I had been with another insurance company (not JM) who were all too happy to accept my premium payments (for 15 years) based upon the inflated appraisal amount only to find out that when I had accidently damaged my stone, they were only willing to replace my stone with what they thought was a like stone which would have cost them approx. 45% of the appraised value they had been basing my premium payments on for 15 years. My husband and I got busy doing some research, and the situation was remedied to our satisfaction. This was a real eye opener for us! Now the insurance company has detailed documentation on the stone and setting with pictures, and I am paying the premium based on the replacement value.

Believe me, I have no problem with good old free enterprise and companies making a profit, but I want to be sure I am not taken advantage of either.

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 3/20/2005 5:51:31 PM
Author: icelady

Wait a minute here. I thought you said earlier that JM pays the jeweler a small percentage over the cost for replacement and repair. If that is the case, then possibly the customer is being asked to pay insurance on the inflated 'appraisal' value, when in fact it may cost them no where near that amount to settle a claim.

Please be careful not to imply that Chubb does not take jewelry appreciation into account. The following is a direct quote from my Chubb policy (under the 'Payment for a Loss - Amount of coverage')...

'To help you maintain an appropriate amount of coverage, if itemized jewelry is shown in your Coverage Summary, we increase the amount of coverage for each article of itemized jewelry annually by a percentage based on industry trends for jewelry values plus, if you request, an additional percentage amount.'

The above is directly from my policy.

I chose Chubb in part because of the direct payment to me allowing me the freedom to go anywhere I needed to in order to replace my jewelry. I also chose Chubb because they wanted me to pay my premium based upon the replacement value. Prior to Chubb, I had been with another insurance company (not JM) who were all too happy to accept my premium payments (for 15 years) based upon the inflated appraisal amount only to find out that when I had accidently damaged my stone, they were only willing to replace my stone with what they thought was a like stone which would have cost them approx. 45% of the appraised value they had been basing my premium payments on for 15 years. My husband and I got busy doing some research, and the situation was remedied to our satisfaction. This was a real eye opener for us! Now the insurance company has detailed documentation on the stone and setting with pictures, and I am paying the premium based on the replacement value.

Believe me, I have no problem with good old free enterprise and companies making a profit, but I want to be sure I am not taken advantage of either.

That is great to know about the Chubb automatic increase because I have had many many clients in my office over the years who had not updated their appraisals and who no longer had adequate insurance to cover the value of their jewelry. I did not mean to imply anything about Chubb since I am totally unfamiliar with them with the exception of doing a replacement for them one time on a Richard Homer stone that they could not get elsewhere at the time.

If your previous insurance company was used to paying 45% of the appraised value for their replacements, then I agree that someone was either writing their appraisals way too high, or they were using too low a quality stone in their replacements. I have been arguing with some of the self appointed appraisal deities about proper appraisal pricing. I am told that it is immoral, unethical and probably fattening to appraise for a penny more than I sold an item for. I believe that since my sales price is lower than what JM would pay me if I did a replacement, that I should appraise for that price. (JM's percentage markup allowed to me is higher than what I normally charge as an internet vendor.) I also believe that 5-10% should be added to allow for potential price increases over the next couple of years until JM requires you to have the piece checked and reinsured. (They used to require this annually, but too many people complained, now I am required to inspect and revalue the piece every second year for JM coverage to stay in place.)

To me this is only common sense to make sure you have adequate insurance. The deities insist that I only appraise for the amount of the sale and for the value at this second, which means that any appraisal I wrote before last Friday's fairly substantial increases on the Rap sheet would now be underinsured. I would rather be slightly overinsured than underinsured if it came to doing a replacement. I don't mean dramatically overinsured, for example these $25,000 appraisals against a 10,000 actual sales price that I sometimes see are ridiculous, but an $11,000 appraisal would not be.

I agree with the deities that an appraisal should NOT be a sales tool, i.e. "Look,. this appraises for $25,000 but I can let you have it for only $10,000. My first reaction to such a tactic would be to want to know what it was really worth, and where can I find somebody honest to sell it to me?

In any case, I agree with you about having complete documentation on the stone and the ring, as well as photos, and about having it insured for replacement value, just make sure there is enough replacement value there to cover a year's worth of potential price increases, and yes, deities if you are reading, I realize we are not prognosticators, but I think we can make reasonable estimates that will protect our clients over the short term, especially with more and more insurance companies doing their part by stepping up and insisting that policies be updated frequently. I am glad to hear that Chubb is doing it.

Wink

 

[moolman]

I think the Chubb policy of adding in appreciation just sealed the deal. Chubb seems to be the way to go. Get a check for the amount you paid plus a bit for the appreciation. Another advantage, no appraisal needed for items under $50K, that saves another $100 every 3 years or whatver, I believe JM requires a new appraisal right every couple of years. No matter how much you want a jeweler to get you an exact replacement, I think you''ll get something more to your satisfaction, if you had the cash in hand and could shop around, instead of shopping for a jeweler, if you don''t want the original jeweler, and since we know people in pricescope are so picky, maybe that jeweler can''t find that perfect diamond with an HCA of less than 1.0.. Well, you get my point

 

[claimsjeff]

Sparklefan....yes if the internet vendor does repairs or insurance replacements we will work with them. Thanks- Jeff