Childhood Immunizations

[Puppmom]

My intention in starting this thread is not to stir controversy. I'm the parent of an infant and I'm having a really difficult time deciding what path is right for our child and was hoping to hear how other parents made their decision.

So far, DS has received HepB at birth and the standard two month vaccines. He reacted poorly to the two month shots (screamed for HOURS). Also, DH works at a school for children with Autism and is bombarded with information about the possible link between the two. Most recently, on a staff inservice day, they had a Neurologist speak about the possible link. He's a supporter of the "better safe than sorry" approach and said that although no one has proven that there IS a link, they've also not been able to prove that there ISN'T. He suggests using an alternate vaccination schedule like the one recommended by Dr. Sears. DH was really shaken by what this guy had to say but understands that someone who was equally as passionate but had the opposite opinion could probably convince him otherwise. He talked to his boss (the Director) who has a son with autism and asked for her personal take. She said that while she's not sure that vaccinations contributed to her son's condition, if she had it to do over again, she would have spread out his vaccines. She recommended we do our own research and talk to our pedi. She said to not be surprised if the pedi gives us a hard time.

We really just don't know what to do. We both have ZERO medical background and don't know what to believe.

How did you make your decision about your child's immunizations? Have you used an alternate schedule to the CDC recommendation? Did your pediatrician try to convince you otherwise? If you work in the medical community, where do you stand?

I'm really very torn and the information on the internet is overwhelming and both sides have such compelling arguments. Unfortunately, this is just one of the many difficult decisions we'll have to make as parents!

 

[DivaDiamond007]

My son, who is 2, has received all of his shots according to the standard CDC schedule and has not experienced any problems or strange reactions to them. It is a difficult decision to make but for me personally, there has been no absolutely convincing evidence that vaccines cause or contribute to autism disorders. Further, my sister is a preschool teacher and has openly stated that autism spectrum disorders are the new ADD/ADHD and are vastly overdiagnosed. Obviously, there are many children who unfortunately truly do have autism spectrum disorders but I don't think vaccines are to blame. I don't know what to believe either!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

Not sure how this won't cause controversy. Just one of those hot topics. We were never on the fence if we were going vaccinate our child? Both our fathers are doctors, my sister is getting her phd in special ed, and I never, ever heard one convincing argument that the risk of immunizations were GREATER than the risk of the diseases they prevent.

ETA: we also do the standard schedule. My dad is pretty laid-back but that was one of the few things he really got on us about.

 

[fieryred33143]

I have zero medical knowledge as well. I decided to put my trust in the research that has been conducted and followed the standard schedule. There was not enough research out there to make me want to follow any other schedule.

 

[TravelingGal]

I don't think it's controversial for mothers to be paranoid about this...I understand, been there, done that.

The doc you said there isn't proof that there ISN'T a link. Well there's no proof that there aren't leprechauns either, but I have to go on what we know. And what we know is that there is proof that these childhood diseases kill.

If you plan on keeping your kid at home for many years, don't have tons of contact with other kids, then sure, check out a delayed vac schedule. If not, then I would look int vaccing on schedule.

And the average pedi will probably not be supportive of it (non vaccing or even delayed). They know Wakeful was a crock. They see sick kids and believe vaccinations help children and society as a whole. They also vac tons of kids and see there are no issues.

Amelia had no issues, obviously. As for better safe than sorry...I agree wholeheartedly...I don't want my kid dying of pertussis (which showed up in several cases in here California recently).

 

[MonkeyPie]

Personally? I would rather have a child with autism than a dead child. That's an extreme way of looking at it, but I want my baby to live. So he gets vaccinated. Just the mere THOUGHT of losing him...

 

[Mara]

I also remember a thread previously, I don't know if I started it or someone else did, about vaccs and there was a lot of great information in there. A lot of the ladies on here have some some serious research. I was apprehensive as well, I don't really think any parent isn't at least a little worried. But as has been noted, there are so many reasons that could be the reason for X,Y,Z but what is really known at this point is that not vaccinating is dangerous.

TG mentioned pertussis in CA. It's a real danger here now. I know multiple people who know people who had it this year. I was really worried about J. I still am but at least he's more out of the danger zone than when he was a wee baby. The babies who died from it this year were all under 3months. And ironically enough it's people who are in highly-educated, very privileged areas around here that are supposedly not vaccinating their kids and potentially spreading the illness. It is scary to even think that he isn't even totally safe from pertussis until I think age 4 or 5?? I mean wow. I try not to think about it.

My feeling is, I can't hide my kid in a bubble nor would I want to. So I have to try to equip him and his body with the best ways to help him survive out in the world. We have gotten his vaccs all on schedule. I don't think he is scheduled to have another round til 12mo. But he got 2mo, 4mo, 6mo all on time.

 

[Guilty Pleasure]

People who choose not to vaccinate their children make me angry. I don't have a strong opinion on most child-rearing choices, as different things work for different children and families, but not in this case. Every time a parent chooses not to vaccinate their child, they are putting everyone else at risk. If enough people decide to not vaccinate and mooch off the good health of everyone else, then the "herd" will lose immunity, so to speak.


As for alternative vaccination schedules, I am not informed enough to give a meaningful opinion but would certainly look into it if I had children. I recommend that you quit reading joe schmoe internet articles, only focus on scholarly journal articles, and ask the pediatrician for her informed opinion.

 

[KimberlyH]

I work with children with autism and attempt to stay current with research on the subject; I do not believe nir have I read any evidence that convinces me ASDs are caused by vaccinations. Thereis a correlation between the timing of diagnosis and vaccinations, though, and that would be doctors appointments.

We are vaccinating on time and are comfortable with the decision. Our pediatrician told us he was willing to use an alternate schedule, but that he vaccinates his 5 kids on schedule, which is the best evidence he can give that he feels it is safe.

Jane reacted poorly to her 6 month shots, it was a rough few days, but nothing in comparison to the thought of her getting horribly ill or worse yet losing her, and our obligation to society to protect those people who are immuno-compromised (sp).

 

[Dreamer_D]

I followed the standard schedule recommended by health Canada. I trust their recommendations implicitly.

Actually, there was recently a public health announcement here about how important it is to have your child immunized ON TIME and according to the health canada recommendations, because deviations from the schedule can severely compromise a child's ability to resist the diseases against which we immunize. The main concerns were getting the first set of shots on time, as those first doses save lives (almost all of the child deaths recently have been kids under 2 mo who were not yet immunized and were likely exposed to the diseases by older kids who had not been vaccinated ). In fact, you can get the first set of vaccs as early as 6 weeks safely. The second concern was getting all shots on the recommended schedule -- not deviating by weeks here and there -- be cause some vaccines, in particular Pertussis (whoopiong cough) are not as effecting as epidemiologists would like and so, once again, missing the scheduled vaccine by even a week or so can severly compromise a child's immunity to the disease, which is deadly.

 

[MustangGal]

I'd discuss your concerns with your pedi, and see if he thinks there's reason to spread out the shots more. I don't think crying for a few hours is really considerted a bad reaction.

My son Kyle cried a for a while after his 2 months shots, but had no problems with any of the others, including the dreaded MMR. I've heard the 2 months ones are the worst, after that they already have some of the "stuff" in their system and don't react as badly.

 

[Pandora II]

Both my and DH's fathers are doctors, my SIL is a specialist who works with children who have Aspergers/Autism.

All of us were vaccinated to schedule as kids, my siblings' kids are all vaccinated to schedule, my SIL's kids are vaccinated to schedule and my father has vaccinated many, many thousands of children over the years in the UK and abroad and never seen a really serious reaction.

We live in an area of London with a highly mobile population and a low uptake of vaccinations so herd immunity is not possible. There have been measles epidemics in the area for the last few years and each year children have died or been severely brain-damaged as a result. I grew up in the developing world where children died of these diseases and parents would have given their right arm for the kind of vaccinations we have available on tap.

Daisy had a bad reaction to the second dose of the 5-in-1 and had a fever and was generally whingy for two days or so. My father said it was a very good indication that her immune system was working well and to just give her some Tylenol. She's had no reaction to any of the others.

The TB vaccination is the only one I was not 100% about doing as it can scar really badly. It's a painless vaccination but it develops into an abcess about 2-3 months after it given which takes about 6 weeks to heal - it's pretty gross, but you just have to stop them scratching it and keep it clean to avoid the scar being too big. A year on it's still pretty visible. Normally they're done at age 11 in the UK, but due to high levels of antibiotic-resistant TB in the area they immunise at birth or at 6 months.

We did the following schedule:

2 months:
5-in-1 single shot: diptheria/tetanus/pertussis/polio/Hib
single shot: Pneumococcal

3 months:
5-in-1 single shot: 2nd dose
single shot: Meningitis C

4 months:
5-in-1 single shot: 3rd dose
single shot: Pneumococcal 2nd dose
single shot: Meningitis C 2nd dose

6 months:
BCG - tuberculosis vaccination

12 months:
2-in-1 shot: Hib/MenC (4th dose Hib/3rd dose MenC)

13 months:
3-in-1 shot: MMR (mumps/measles/rubella)
single shot: Pneumococcal 3rd dose

14 months:
3-in-1 shot: MMR 2nd dose
single shot: Varicella

15 months:
single shot: Varicella 2nd dose

This is the standard UK schedule with a couple of modifications. As we live in a high risk area for measles, the 2nd dose of the MMR is given 4 weeks after the first rather than 2 years later and we paid privately to have Daisy immunised against Varicella as it's not one that is routine.

Basically, if I could have her immunised against something I did! I'm a huge believer in vaccinating and it really annoys me that parents put both their own child's health at risk and also lower herd immunity which impacts on children who are either too young, immunocompromised, or otherwise unable to be vaccinated.

ETA: Regarding the Hib... my brother got a lot of ear infections as a very young child and as a result of one of these he got Hib into his blood-stream and it got into the bone-marrow in his leg. At the age of 6 he had over 8 operations, spent many weeks in hospital and came very close to losing his leg because of it. Nowadays he would have been vaccinated and it would never have happened. My parents spent several months with specialists not knowing what was causing the problem and terrified that he had bone cancer - it was eventually diagnosed by an doctor from the USA that was at an international conference where my brother's consultant had taken slides etc along to try and get an answer.

 

[packrat]

We followed the standard schedule w/both kids. Neither had any issues other than sore legs and a teensy bit of whining. I had to get re vaccinated for work a couple weeks ago-Hep A/B, Varicella, and TB. Plus I got my flu mist. Safe than sorry. We had a huge measles outbreak north of here a couple years ago, mumps was going crazy a couple years before that, and we had a few kids in the community die from meningitis and a few life flighted b/c of it.

My cousin has a son who we all think has Autism, and my gramma is adamant that it was from immunizations. I don't think it was, but that's neither here nor there-at least my cousin still has a son, right?

 

[Puppmom]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

If you're going to vaccinate your child, spreading the shots out may ease your concern. We haven't followed the standard schedule and I haven't had any problems with any pediatricians we've been to. Both my kids are in public school and they allow philosophical exemptions for those who don't follow the regular protocal.

Personally, I would look at some parenting boards and see what they have to say. A few responses here on PS doesn't seem like the best approach to aiding a decision

Best of luck.

 

[NovemberBride]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

If you're going to vaccinate your child, spreading the shots out may ease your concern. We haven't followed the standard schedule and I haven't had any problems with any pediatricians we've been to. Both my kids are in public school and they allow philosophical exemptions for those who don't follow the regular protocal.

Personally, I would look at some parenting boards and see what they have to say. A few responses here on PS doesn't seem like the best approach to aiding a decision

Best of luck.

I agree that a few responses on PS is not the best approach to aiding a decision, but neither is reading parenting message boards. If you are truly concerned about the risks of vaccinations, I suggest that you visit the websites for the CDC and the AAP, or read articles in REPUTABLE ACADEMIC journals - not random websites written by people with no scientific evidence to back up their claims.

 

[oobiecoo]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted. No chicken pox either since thats really not serious...

 

[ChargerGrrl]

DH works in biotech/pharma (he's a medicinal chemist/scientist), so I left the research on this topic up to him.

Nothing out there convinced him of the link between the two (and he has access to med journals/research). Therefore we've been following the standard schedule and so far so good- knock on wood as N is getting his 4mo shots on Friday!

Good luck, Pupp!

 

[Dreamer_D]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted. No chicken pox either since thats really not serious...

Just wanted to comment that although not serious for your daughter, it can be serious to others who may come into contact with your daughter (i.e., older adults, newborns, immunosuppressed). That is why vaccines are important too, not just for the individual but for heard immunity and protecting the weaker people within the population. Not telling you what choice to make, but wanted to point it out for other readers as a more general comment.

 

[ksinger]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted. No chicken pox either since thats really not serious...

Just wanted to comment that although not serious for your daughter, it can be serious to others who may come into contact with your daughter (i.e., older adults, newborns, immunosuppressed). That is why vaccines are important too, not just for the individual but for heard immunity and protecting the weaker people within the population. Not telling you what choice to make, but wanted to point it out for other readers as a more general comment.

Yes, and try telling someone who's had shingles and/or now has postherpetic neuralgia, how "not serious" chicken pox is. (And it doesn't just happen to old people either.) I know one man who now has postherpetic neuralgia on his head, and I'm acquainted with one woman in her early 30s, who had shingles several times by the time she was about 25....

 

[Pandora II]

We will be spreading out our child's vaccinations. They get so many shots at one time, and I don't care whether there is an autism link or not... I feel more comfortable giving my child smaller doses of these chemicals over a longer period of time. That's alot for a little body to handle! I also denied the Hep B and will not be giving her the Guardasil since those are sexually transmitted. No chicken pox either since thats really not serious...

Chicken Pox can be very serious - a 7 year old patient of my father's ended up with encephalitis and was very ill. It's rare to be very serious in the average child but can cause huge problems for the immuno-compromised and shingles is a really nasty thing to have and can leave lasting neurological damage. Vaccinating against chicken-pox also protects against shingles.

Multiple shots are nothing for a small body to handle at all. They are being bombarded by multiple different antigens every second of the day. Every time your baby touches something and then puts their hand in their mouth they are being exposed to way more nasties than they are with a vaccination.

One thing to bear in mind if you do go down the single vaccine route is to be very sure of your provider. When I took Daisy for her Varicella vaccination I had to go to a private clinic and they were telling me that there had been HUGE issues with single vaccines here in the UK. The government only pays for the standard shots so if you want single shots you have to pay for them privately, checks on the clinics doing the single vaccines showed that many of the vaccines were counterfeit or produced in unlicensed factories overseas and many of those that were genuine had been stored or transported incorrectly. The result was that many supposedly immunised children were now not immunised.

 

[icekid]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

If you're going to vaccinate your child, spreading the shots out may ease your concern. We haven't followed the standard schedule and I haven't had any problems with any pediatricians we've been to. Both my kids are in public school and they allow philosophical exemptions for those who don't follow the regular protocal.

Personally, I would look at some parenting boards and see what they have to say. A few responses here on PS doesn't seem like the best approach to aiding a decision

Best of luck.

I agree that a few responses on PS is not the best approach to aiding a decision, but neither is reading parenting message boards. If you are truly concerned about the risks of vaccinations, I suggest that you visit the websites for the CDC and the AAP, or read articles in REPUTABLE ACADEMIC journals - not random websites written by people with no scientific evidence to back up their claims.

Huge ditto to NovemberBride. Not sure what would make MC think that some random people on parenting boards are better informed than parents on pricescope, who are by and large, well-educated and intelligent.

This doctor will be vaccinating her little boy completely and on time! IMO, it is the responsible and informed choice for me.

 

[fieryred33143]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

If you're going to vaccinate your child, spreading the shots out may ease your concern. We haven't followed the standard schedule and I haven't had any problems with any pediatricians we've been to. Both my kids are in public school and they allow philosophical exemptions for those who don't follow the regular protocal.

Personally, I would look at some parenting boards and see what they have to say. A few responses here on PS doesn't seem like the best approach to aiding a decision

Best of luck.

I agree that a few responses on PS is not the best approach to aiding a decision, but neither is reading parenting message boards. If you are truly concerned about the risks of vaccinations, I suggest that you visit the websites for the CDC and the AAP, or read articles in REPUTABLE ACADEMIC journals - not random websites written by people with no scientific evidence to back up their claims.

Huge ditto to NovemberBride. Not sure what would make MC think that some random people on parenting boards are better informed than parents on pricescope, who are by and large, well-educated and intelligent.

This doctor will be vaccinating her little boy completely and on time! IMO, it is the responsible and informed choice for me.

I don't think MC meant that the parents here are not educated. I think she just meant that the responses are limited since there are few parents on here. There ARE parenting sites that have thousands and thousands of mothers who have done their research on the board as opposed to the 15-20 we have here. But I agree that looking up the research directly is the better approach.

 

[swimmer]

Hugs Pupp,
I think all babies hate the two month shots most. My guy was miserable at that one, favoring his leg and slept all day, well, that wasn't ALL bad. Of course the look of utter shock and "how could you do this to me?!?" hasn't gone away, but the tears were gone after a few seconds at his 4 month.

I read this recently and thought "gee if another vaccination thread comes up, this would be handy." It explains herd immunity for those of us who are not MDs. Measles is not a minor disease: http://shotofprevention.com/2010/04/12/measles-and-immunity-it’s-all-in-the-numbers/

Also wanted to share a blog article by a mother concerning Pertissus, one of those diseases that is rare because of prevalent vaccinations so many are choosing to decline. http://shotofprevention.com/2010/09/10/a-mothers-story-of-love-loss-and-hope/#comment-505

 

[MichelleCarmen]

.[/quote]
Not sure what would make MC think that some random people on parenting boards are better informed than parents on pricescope, who are by and large, well-educated and intelligent.[/quote]

Where did I say that people on PS are not well-educated? Please do not assume or pick apart my post b/c you didn't interpret it correctly.

Actually my thought is this: since everyone here responding here that they did vaccinate, if one person steps in and says they didn't or are postposing they do risk being ripped to shreds. Those who don't vaccinate may feel it's better to keep their mouths shut! I figured a parenting board MAY have a broader range of opinions because MORE may step in with varying views. Not very many moms here responded to the post.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Thanks for all of the input. I think as a parent to an infant, I'm so nervous that I could do something (or not do something) that could negatively impact his future. I think DH is particularly sensitive because of the environment he works in.

If you're going to vaccinate your child, spreading the shots out may ease your concern. We haven't followed the standard schedule and I haven't had any problems with any pediatricians we've been to. Both my kids are in public school and they allow philosophical exemptions for those who don't follow the regular protocal.

Personally, I would look at some parenting boards and see what they have to say. A few responses here on PS doesn't seem like the best approach to aiding a decision

Best of luck.

I agree that a few responses on PS is not the best approach to aiding a decision, but neither is reading parenting message boards. If you are truly concerned about the risks of vaccinations, I suggest that you visit the websites for the CDC and the AAP, or read articles in REPUTABLE ACADEMIC journals - not random websites written by people with no scientific evidence to back up their claims.

Huge ditto to NovemberBride. Not sure what would make MC think that some random people on parenting boards are better informed than parents on pricescope, who are by and large, well-educated and intelligent.

This doctor will be vaccinating her little boy completely and on time! IMO, it is the responsible and informed choice for me.

I don't think MC meant that the parents here are not educated. I think she just meant that the responses are limited since there are few parents on here. There ARE parenting sites that have thousands and thousands of mothers who have done their research on the board as opposed to the 15-20 we have here. But I agree that looking up the research directly is the better approach.

Yep, exactly!

 

[MustangGal]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

 

[TravelingGal]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

Never thought about that, but that totally makes sense. Preschools here will not accept children who are not up to date on their vacs. They will make an exception for religious/personal belief reasons for non vaccinated children. However, if your kid is partially vaccinated, obviously those religious reasons do not apply.

 

[Nashville]

My daughter is fully vaccinated, and thankfully never had a bad reaction. My husband and I thought a lot about it and did tons of research. Even before it was debunked, I think losing my child over something preventable would have been worlds more devastating than autism.

I should add, I had the final say in her vaccination schedule, and they were spaced out. My husband is extremely skeptical of vaccinations but respected my opinion and research.

 

[Mara]

For those that don't do some shots or spread them out, that may prove difficult getting them in to public schools depending on where you live. My MIL is a school secretary in California, and there if you start the vaccines, you have to finish them. They won't give you an exemption for only some shots. They also have to be given within certian time frames to be acceptable. And if you do choose not to vaccinate, if there is any threat of a vaccinated illness at the school they will not allow your child to attend until the danger has passed. I imagine other states might have similar rules, I haven't check in AZ yet where I live, but then my son is fully vaccinated.

Never thought about that, but that totally makes sense. Preschools here will not accept children who are not up to date on their vacs. They will make an exception for religious/personal belief reasons for non vaccinated children. However, if your kid is partially vaccinated, obviously those religious reasons do not apply.

Personally I don't think that exceptions should be made at all for any kids who are not vaccinated in situations like this.

People can definitely choose to or not to vaccinate their kids--its their decision. But to enter your child into school or daycare or whatever area where there are lots of other kids, esp babies--I think that they should have to be vaccinated.

To use the kid/dog comparison yet again... when I take Portia to the groomer or to daycare she is required to have proof of her vaccs or else they won't take her.