Cehra, how are you liking China?

[Phoenix]

Hi Sara,

I remember reading somewhere that you'd rather see the positive side of life. I must say I'm somewhat similar, I'm the sort of person that sees the glass as being half full and not half empty.

I was really dreading going to China and was not so happy when I first arived here. I had no friends, am not working (though partly by choice), couldn't speak a word of Chinese and wasn't so keen on the lack of hygiene here as well as the crowdedness/ lack of personal space in Shanghai. Granted we were the happiest *ever* in Singapore, my heart will always be in Singapore and it's more likely than not that we'll end up again in Singapore - sooner than later. I begrudgingly gave up my fabulous job in Singapore and all my wonderful friends there to follow DH to Shanghai because for as long as I can remember, he's always wanted for us to go live in China.

Well, we still don't have that many friends here in SH, but we're trying!

My Chinese is improving and best of all eating out here is fabulously inexpensive! For eg, tonight I was really craving both homemade pasta and lobster; and DH being the fabulously loving husband that he is googled restaurants in SH and found us this amazing Italian restaurant that served exactly that. We had the most yummy clams for starter and DH had a HUGE piece of black cod. Everything was perfect, they even followed our request and served my food without salt (high blood pressure, yikes). We polished off a whole bottle of wine between the two of us (a very rare occurence). And you know what was the best thing?! Our whole bill, including a very generous tip, was USD150!!

The other foods that we love in Shanghai are: eggs (taste like free range organic and prob are), chicken (not the bland battery type at all), tomatoes (the sweetest tomotoes you'll ever have tasted), yoghurt (OMG, I can't describe how delicious it is), kiwis (again fabulously inexpensive)... not to forget Qing Dao beef (wagyu QD beef tastes almost - i'd say 90% - like the Japanese version but costs something like a quarter or one third of the price of the latter

) ....I can go on and on, LOL!

Oh oh, I almost forgot....I have a mani and pedi at a local place every two or three weeks (depending on how cold it is outside, LOL). The whole thing, including voluntary tipping, is something like USD20-25 (depending on what you have done). I'm going to have my mani and pedi again tomorrow and will give every girl there hong bao. The girls there are just the sweetest and every time I go, I get to practise my Chinese with them - for FREE, he he!!

So, what has your experience been so far? And what do you like about living in China?

 

[Phoenix]

Bump!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Unlike you I was very excited to come here but my first week sucked!! I kept looking around in horror thinking no way, I can''t live here, I can''t shop here - how could I have missed how gross the meat section is?? I''m settling in okay - it''s still ups and downs but I have had a pretty decent time of looking at the positive side. I posted a really funny note about buying my first chicken from the wet market (I''ll post it in a bit) and buying things, meat especially, from the local markets is still a bit daunting and disgusting, but I know the quality is actually better so I''m really trying to adjust my perceptions.

I go *every* week for a mani/pedi. I am "VIP" now so it''s 85rmb for them both which is ridiculously inexpensive. I got my nails and toes painted chinese red for the new year - they''re gorgeous but I''m a little excited to get another color as red is typically not what I do and it''s been a week and a half already (they went home for the holiday so I have to go 2 weeks boo!!). I got each of the girls there a box of french truffles from the import store - they got so excited and jumped up and down and hugged me - I love my girls too. I "talk" with them about all kinds of girly things. I can''t wait to learn more so I can have better talks with them. I have never had a quality job like these girls do - they are perfection.

I have not had the qing dao beef - I have never had kobe beef either. I would like to - I am hoping we can go to Japan at some point while we are living here.

I am a little mixed on the friend front - I do the social things, I meet the women, everyone is friendly, but I don''t really click with the mainstream type of women. I cannot stand being superficial for too long and it feels like most women can''t stand being real for too long, or at least too soon or in front of too many people. I dunno. There are a couple of women I get on really well with but both of them hate crowds, hate groups. I love crowds and groups, I just like crowds and groups of off-center people Additionally there are about a handful of chinese women I am *really* enjoying. My chinese tutor for one. People tell me "you''re going to the fireworks with your TUTOR?" Like it''s something bad. Griefs - she''s a woman with a master''s degree and she''s nice and we enjoy comparing cultures - I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE how much so many american women look down on the chinese - "the help". This is THEIR country. How insulting! Don''t get me started - the whole thing is a rather complicated ball. Some of the women I meet her I just can''t stand and I feel so two faced biting my tongue. In the states it''s easy to move on and away from people like that but here there is no where to go, our husbands work together, our friends are friends - I have to smile and endure and that is just not my style.

We are still not in our house and it''s starting to really get to me. We are 5 people in 1100 square foot 2 bedroom apartment. it''s nice enough and everything, but there is only one living space and no where to escape from anyone. I do not have an ayi - I want a live in Ayi but we have no where to put her yet

I''m nervous about picking a bad one or getting attached to a mediocre one and not wanting to fire her. Because we''re not in our house, we haven''t received our shipment from the states yet and for example - I have no computer printer. I had no idea how much I used it. But that''s just one thing... I really am looking forward to moving but the air quality levels still keep coming back as too high. Fun.

Let me go copy that post... hehe

 

[Cehrabehra]

A Note About Chinese Chickens

So at the market they have chickens - of COURSE they have their feet and heads, you didn''t think they wouldn''t did you? So I pick one and it looks so lovely and plump but I make sure I let them know they can keep the head and feet. I ask why the chest is so red and my driver translates and then tells me I don''t want to know. I must have gotten a look because he quickly tells me no no, the chicken is fine, nothing wrong with it, but I don''t want to know. I must have gotten another look because he then says no really - you don''t want to know. You want to know don''t you? Okay... they were in a hurry so they plucked the chicken before they killed it. Ugh. I didn''t want to know that. So now what do I do? Reject the chicken? it has already suffered and I figured the best thing I could do was take it home and say a little prayer of sorrow and thanks for the chicken''s pain and sacrifice. (Okay yeah I''m cookey like that - eff off!) So I am making soup today and I take it out and it''s really a lovely bird. I rinsed it off and layed (laid?) it on the board, put my hands on its chest and closed my eyes... I almost cried I felt so bad, but I also wouldn''t want the life to go to waste. (yeah I really am this cookey - shut UP!) So I start to cut up the chicken. I''ve cut up a chicken plenty of times... I''ve never had to remove the neck before but I''m okay with that. When removing the fat around the opening I realize the chicken shitter is still there (haha - I make funny) and I don''t want to deal with any of it so I just cut off the tail. Fine. So I look in... there''s a lot of stuff in there so I turn the chicken upright in the sink and shake it - nothing comes out. I see a big bit of liver hanging out so I tug - it''s not giving. Okay yucko. I decide it''s better to start with the legs - remove the legs, remove the wings - now I''ll cut the chicken open front to back and see what we have to deal with - because as many times as I''ve stuck my hand up the cold dark cavity of a dead chicken, I cannot bring myself to do it to this one. I knew the chicken died just an hour or two before I bought it but at least I didn''t pick it out. So I get it open and voila! there are just too many parts inside. The lungs are all stuck inside of the back - and I mean stuck. I''ve seen a scrap of lung before but never 100% of the lungs. I think the only thing they took out were the entrails. The worst part may have been the heart that was still attached and encased in its sack - but yet I managed.

It''s boiling in the pot with some onion now. Smells good. I''m adjusting. I''m adjusting.

 

[Phoenix]

Well, DH has gone out to watch rugby with the boys, so here I am reading your posts and I don't know whether to laugh or cry! You should seriously think about creative writing as a profession, Sara. I have this mental image of this poor chicken!! I have to say you're MUCH braver than I am. I have *never* been to the wet market here and I absolutely refuse to go. Call me arrogant, call me spoilt, call me chicken (pardon the pun, LOL)...whatever!

I just cannot bring myself to the sights and smells of a wet market. I think when we lived in Singapore, I went to the wet market near to us a total of like 10 times in the 10 years we lived there. It was either our full-time maid or my DH; and most of the time we bought meats from the supermarket. Here in SH, we go either to City Shop or Carrefour; alternatively we order online. Well, when I say "we", I mean DH mostly, LOL! When I go, I go to City Shop. I just *can't* deal with the smell of the meat section and that's Carrfour. When we buy chickens, they're *always* thoroughly cleaned, there're no lungs, heart, liver or entrails or whatever. Sure, the chickens always come with their heads and feet, but they're supposed to be a delicacy!

Only j/k, I always chop them off when I bring them home and save them up in the freezer to give to our part-time ayi. I don't like them but am not so put off by them. I guess that's because i) I grew up seeing stuff like that in Vietnam and ii) I've lived in Asia for the past 10 years and chicken heads and feet don't really freak me out. Oh, btw, have you checked out the online grocery that I sent you in your other thread? Their beef and lamb are really yummy. And you should *definitely* try the QD beef, not just any QD beef but the wagyu type. It won't say so on the label, just look out for the more expensive packet (and when I say expensive, it's something like USD30 for a big portion).

Hmm...the friends thing, I hear you. There are plenty of stuck up lao wai here who have a superiority complex. We've lived in HK and SG also, so we see them esp in HK. I know what you mean about having no choice since they're spouses of your / DH's friends/ colleagues. We know some of such people. I think they tend to be foreigners who only live in China/ Asia for a short while and they're still basking in their or their spouses' expat packages' glory and expat friends, differentiating and literally keeping themselves from the locals because they think they're above the locals. Our long term friends here, however, are like us in that they're here and intend to stay here (either in China specifically or Asia in general) for a long time and they absorb and integrate themselves in the local culture. They are nice, they are sincere. They know where they come from and where they're going. I can't be bothered any more with the type you're talking about. I *hate* superficial people too. I just don't have time for them. DH is the same. We'd rather have fewer friends that are true friends with whom we can identify. We're too old to pretend to be nice to people that we don't really like and can't identify with. Granted there are some that we *have* to act all civil towards but we keep them at arms length (they may be nice but we'd rather not get to know them too well).

It's so nice that you're friendly with your Chinese teacher. Mine is friendly enough (she used to teach me in a group as well is now giving me 1-to-1 Chinese lessons) but she's not overly friendly. It's fine with me too. I'm a bit paranoid (who me, an auditor by profession, LOL!

) that if our friendship doesn't work out, then I'll have lost the best Chinese teacher I've ever had.

I'm sorry you're still in your apartment. Why the hold-up with your house, if you don't mind my asking? That can't be fun living in that kind of space with 5 people! We're adjusting too ourselves. In SG, we had/ have a 6-bedroom house and here we have a 3-bedroom apartment. Granted we put in a lot of sweat and blood and practically most of our savings (at the time) into the house, but we paid/ pay the same mortgage there as we do the rent here. It's really depressing when you think about it! The way I see it though, we still have it bl&&^y good, so I don't want to complain, well not too much anyway!

About your ayi, perhaps you should ask around and see if there's anyone who's had an ayi for several years and who's going home/ relocating. The best ayi's are those that have worked for someone for a long time and have proven themselves to be good at their job and can integrate well with your family and whom you can get along with. You don't want to get them from an agency. There's no way of telling. Also, this way you can ask their previous/ existing employer about them and have a chat or two with them to see if there's any chemistry.

Anyway, I hope you get to move soon to your house and also you get your stuff from the US. It's rather a long time to be without your familiar belongings.

Anytime you wanna chat about your life in China or about anything and everything, just holler!

Last but not least, kudos to you for adjusting so well to life in China. I really mean that. From what you're saying, I think you're doing really well, all things considered.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I recommend laughing I really think I got half adjusted living in Ireland. Not to say that Ireland is bad, but compared to America it was very old fashioned and rustic. Here in China you could think it''s gross - I think of it as very old fashioned instead. Maybe that''s the "brave" thing''s origin.

One reason I go there is because the chicken at the import stores is nasty looking. Watery and pale and from what I''ve heard - tough. Granted, once I get an ayi I may have her clean it lol And she can have the feet and heads - no problem! But the *flavor* of the local market chicken and the texture are just so superior it''s really an easy choice. It was a hard choice the first time, but I''m glad I''m taking that road I don''t think you''re arrogant or spoiled for NOT buying there - I can''t blame you at all! It is disgusting through one set of eyes - but like I said, I try to see it more as old fashioned than disgusting. I can''t imagine wearing my diamond ring to one of those markets though. I love the chicken pun

We have Carrefour here but it''s downtown about an hour away so I don''t go there too often. In fact I''ve only been there once. 30 min away is a Tesco and that''s probably where I do most of my shopping. Sometimes to the trust-mart (chinese walmart ugh) because their meat is nicer sometimes when the local market is closed or for things they don''t have.

No - I haven''t checked out the grocery you linked. I realized just a couple days ago that I am in a holding pattern. It''s because we''re not in our house. I''m going nuts!! Why are we not in it? The chemical levels in the house are too high - it''s a new house plus they stained all of the furniture AFTER they moved it in the house. I went there yesterday and they had pineapples and onions laid all over the place because they think it''s a SMELL and they don''t get that it''s not *only* an odor and cannot be masked by smelly rotting fruits and vegetables - geeeeez lol There will be another test on the house tomorrow and we will know the results on the 1st and if it passes they will clean the house and we should be moving in the following friday. If it doesn''t pass - it could be more weeks. The new house is 3-4 times bigger than where we are which will be so nice, but mostly I am looking forward to feeling like I can really settle in and get comfortable. So I haven''t been doing anything that would involve things being sent to me. I feel too uprooted to venture down that yet. Once I move I will start a thread and pester you for the info again

There are 4 social group things that I have participated in. One is hanging out in Starbucks (only did that once), one is hanging out in another place (better), one is a broader more international thing (this week we''re learning mahjong - this group is better), and the last is a chinese painting class. I have only done that once so far but it was nice Socially I prefer the international group. There are a lot of people from just all over the world - norway, germany, brazil, italy, india, russia, etc. and the focus is a bit more real even though the structure is more formal. Kind of ironic really that the casual nature of starbucks has the most snotty people! Where the women drink their coffee and brag that they don''t get out of the car unless the driver opens the door for them or "how dare they" when a local says something that is out of turn by american standards but not chinese standards. I could go on

I''ve been spending a lot of time with my chinese teacher - I really like her. There are more locals I really enjoy than americans lol Unfortunately I don''t think I''m learning as much Chinese as I should!! But I am learning a lot about culture!!

A 6 bedroom house? Wowzers! What did you do with all of those rooms? We had a 4 bedroom house in the US and one was an office, boys shared a room... we had 4 bedroom in Ireland and each had their own room, and will have a 4 bedroom here (not sure yet if we''ll have the boys share a room or give them their own - one bedroom is on another floor and I don''t like that but they do better having their own rooms). In the new house there''s a HUGE attic (well huge for an attic) and I am going to have a shared office area there with my husband, a homework area for the kids, and an electronic game (tv, couch, wii) area. I can''t wait to move in!!! Then I have to hit Ikea for some desks lol

I don''t know anyone who is relocating soon who a) loves their ayi and b) hasn''t had her claimed yet by someone else. I am going to have an interview this week or next with a woman who is the sister of an ayi that works for a family chinese teacher tutors for. I don''t know if it will work - but I am happier with the word of mouth than I am with an agency. I don''t mind training her/working with her. Mostly she''s going to have to like to talk because I like to talk and I want to learn chinese! We want someone live-in and this woman has a husband but says it is okay 6 nights a week so I need to find out if she really wants to be away from her husband or if she is only doing it for the job. I can not take a woman from her marital bed if she wants to be with her husband. It feels wrong to me. You pretty much nailed it with the chemistry comment though - it pretty much sums it up. I know there will be a learning curve but if I always feel she is sulking or mean spirited I don''t care HOW well she cleans or cooks.

First thing when I get my stuff I will have a party inviting just the americans I like best and the chinese I like best and I will love every minute of it

If I ever go down to Shanghai (which I''m sure I will eventually) we will have to meet up do you plan to go to Harbin at all? We will go next winter!

 

[zoebartlett]

Phoenix and Sara -- I just wanted to pop in and let you both know how much I enjoy reading your posts. I love learning about other cultures, and I'm somewhat fascinated with how both of you moved so far from home to experience life in unfamiliar territory. Phoenix, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you move from London at some point?

Anyway, carry on...

ETA: Sara, how are your children adjusting to life in China (if you don't mind me asking)? They must be soaking it all in and learning so much! Do they like living in China so far?

 

[kenny]

How wonderful.

I was in the US Navy for 6 years but never on a ship.
I lived overseas for 5 of the years and loved it.

It really opens up the mind to be in a different culture.
Sara, you''re a lot like me.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Zoe - Thank you, I didn''t think anyone but she and I were reading them lol I think some people think it should just be a passing footnote but for me anyway it''s pretty all consuming! It''s nice to talk with others for whom the changes are also all consuming - it''s great to have someone who knows what you''re going through. I have some women here - the one I''m probably closest to... I think she hates it here. She has been here only 7 mos and has been away twice and comes back depressed. I think she''s more of a homebody than me and feels way too out of her element here. All I really need are my husband and kids and we can make a nest anywhere. the rest is details - some details are more difficult than others, but they''re still just details.

My kids... well my youngest is going through a really stubborn butt head phase and it has nothing to do with china. He started it in Ireland and it got better back in the US and is about the same as it was there still. I just want the whole phase to pass. My middle son is comfortable anywhere he can spend money or that has candy. Beyond that he doesn''t care. My daughter was miserable until she got a couple friends she clicked with and now she''s happy. All 3 are sharing a room right now and I''m sure this is a source of tension in the house as well. 8 and 10 year old boys and a 15 year old girl are not a happy roommate situation. I really think once we move things will improve for everyone!

Kenny - My husband was in the navy as well - 4 years off a ship but stateside (training then instructing) and 2 years sea duty (1 active, 1 drydock) and he spent 6 mos in the gulf and hated every moment of it. He did get some travel in but I bet if I asked him if it was worth it he''d say no. I would like to think you and I are alike in some ways - but I think you are further along. Maybe cause you''re older ;D

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/21/2010 9:27:31 AM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Phoenix and Sara -- I just wanted to pop in and let you both know how much I enjoy reading your posts. I love learning about other cultures, and I'm somewhat fascinated with how both of you moved so far from home to experience life in unfamiliar territory. Phoenix, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you move from London at some point?

Anyway, carry on...

ETA: Sara, how are your children adjusting to life in China (if you don't mind me asking)? They must be soaking it all in and learning so much! Do they like living in China so far?

That's very kind of you. I'm most impressed with Sara. She seems to have adapted rather well in her new life in China, considering that she and her family have been here only since January and China is a vastly different country, culture wise (amongst many things), compared to the US.

Yes, I did live in the UK but I moved from there to Hong Kong and subsequently to Singapore, before ending up here. Both DH and I, indiviually and together, have travelled extensively across Asia. So to me, China shouldn't be that much of a culture shock (it still is in some ways

). I think mostly I just really miss Singapore, particularly our friends and our house!

I should take a leaf out of Sara's book though.

 

[zoebartlett]

Thanks Phoenix and Sara!

Sara -- I find Asia fascinating. I can imagine moving to China would be quite a culture shock to someone who is unfamiliar with Asian tradition and customs. Your kids are so lucky to have this opportunity to experience living there.

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/23/2010 4:56:53 PM
Author: ZoeBartlett
Thanks Phoenix and Sara!


Sara -- I find Asia fascinating. I can imagine moving to China would be quite a culture shock to someone who is unfamiliar with Asian tradition and customs. Your kids are so lucky to have this opportunity to experience living there.

well, the school they go to is an international school so you have to have a non-chinese passport to attend. There are quite a few koreans though - the korean economy is MUCH stronger and it''s so, so close... they have an ESL program set up to teach the korean children english!

I am lucky to have this experience, but it really is more than luck. 18 years ago we decided if we ever had the opportunity to live overseas we would go for it... and we actively kept our eyes open and when the opportunity wandered past we went for it. I''ve got a friend from HS whose husband works for the same company in another state and they could have gone but she is always saying she''s jealous and living through me vicariously - but she also said there was no way she could do it. There''s no magic - you just do it! There is of course a certain amount of living with the consequences LOL I''m a very LOW drama person - these are the sorts of things I do to liven things up rather than getting involved in dysfunctional situations like too many people I know do. Plenty of good healthy drama in life to be created

There is culture shock - but the most important thing is that we''re all humans, we all have so much more in common than not even with socioeconomic and language differences. I think the hardest thing for me is keeping my mouth shut about some of the political stuff. I do ask questions though and encourage them to talk away but sometimes they ask me questions and I have to say, "I can''t discuss that with you".

 

[Phoenix]

Sara,

I'm so sorry I didn't ask about your kids before. To tell you the truth, I did think about asking you right after my last post to you but didnt' get round to it, my bad! Glad to hear that they're going to an international school. Chinese schools, I hear, are unrealistically demanding. In fact, I'm led to believe that most Asian parents are too demanding when it comes to their chidren's education. As a result, the kids don't have any extra-curricular activities, and can get very depressed/ stressed out. I think on the whole though kids tend to be more adaptable to adults, but I'm sure you're right about the source of tension between them. Sharing a room, especially at that age, and between boys and girls can be very tricky indeed. I remember not liking very much having to share with my siblings.

Which brings me to the subject of our house in Singapore. Well, the reason why we had/ and still have a 6-bedroom house because when we were looking, we thought we'd be in Singapore forever (until an offer came up in China that DH couldn't refuse!); and we or rather I (LOL) wanted at least three bedrooms between the three of us (one as the master bedroom, one as DH's study and one for me as a dressing room), plus an extra room for guests. I like to have lots of space, precisely because I had to share with my siblings for so many years!

So when we found the house, it has 4 bedrooms on the top floor and 1 downstairs for guests. Well, we wanted to keep the guest room downstairs strictly for guests (didn't want to have guests being on the same floor as us - privacy reason). But that left the issue of where to put our full-time/ lived in maid. We certainly didn't want her to be on the same floor as us. So guess what we did?! We had our house extended and built a brand new room for her, complete with a fully-equipped ensuite, and her own private entrance at the back of the house! I used to joke with her that she was the luckiest in the household because everything in her room was brand new/ built from scratch or newly bought whereas the rest of the house was only renovated. Anyway, it's not as grand as it sounds. The rooms and the lot are certainly not American-sized.

I'm sorry too that you have this issue with your house. I really hope that the house passes your inspection this time and you can finally move in soon. I know what you mean about not being settled in. We're having some issue with our landlord but would rather not mention it here.

Talking about culture shock, don't you find it funny (strange, not ha ha) that most Chinese (and well, Asians) have no qualm about asking you really personal questions like: Are you married? How many children do you have (or if you don't have any, then WHY don't you have children, do you not like children?!

)? Where do you live? How big is your house? What do you/ your husband do/ does (even if they are total strangers to you/ have only met you for the first time)? etc...I remember when we lived in Singapore, I had on numerous occasions taxi drivers asking me how much I got paid and how much rent we were paying for the apartment!

Worst of all was when at a company lunch, my boss was openly telling me that what we were paying for rent (he mentioned the exact amount) was too much for the space (again he mentioned the exact size) and that we didn't need to live in such a large space!

The only reason why he knew all this information was because I had to get my employer to sign our lease/ rental agreement and did NOT even *dream* that he'd say it back to me, let alone in front of all my colleagues!

Today, I went past a Chinese restaurant nearby and saw some dishes that were totally strange and shocking! Wanna know? Okie, I'll tell you, LOL. I saw amongst chicken feet and tripe (totally not scared of them, LOL), things that I didn't EVER imagine could be eaten, including pig lungs and beef throat!! How on earth are they supposed to taste? Those will take some getting used to, ha ha!

Have you tried any strange dish or dishes yet? Enquiring minds want to know, he he......

How are you doing with your Chinese? It's realy great that you're already taking lessons and seem to be doing so well - again, I meant that sincerely. I didn't to go class or have an tuition during the first four months here. I studied by myself and didn't get very far - no surprise there! I guess I was just moping about and resisted the idea of going to Chinese classes, as I was in denial and didn't want to accept that we were really living in China. Well, thank GOD I've passed that stage and am enjoying Chinese tremendously. Next week, I move onto Intermediate. However, my spoken Chinese and listening comprehension skills still need LOTS of work, despite my pretty decent (decent for the amount of time I've studied, it's all relative, isn't it?!

) reading comprehension. How are you doing with speaking and understanding? I guess your being friendly and wanting to talk must really help. I should find someone for me to talk with, perhaps some language exchange, or better still, I should go back to work.

 

[Phoenix]

Ok, the above post got too long so I shall start another one now...

Speaking of working, I think I should go back to work or at least join some professional organisations. I mean it's not like I have kids or am on some super-busy schedule. I guess one of the reasons I'm still not assimilating as fast as I would like is because I'm not out there meeting a bunch of people. I've always worked and have no excuse not to. I'm not talking about making real friends, just establishing some contacts so I can better feel about a sense of belonging (and also, who knows, real friends can stem from work relationships - I've some excellent friends who are my ex-colleagues). The woman that you were talking about, the one that went home twice in 7 months (well to tell you the truth, we also went back to Singapore within our first six months

), I'd bet that she's somehow not established enough contacts or relationships with like-minded inviduals to help her feel better about her environment, kwim? But I do totally understand that it can be quite strange and very hard for some people, particularly if they've never wanted to go live overseas, let alone to a country that's so different from the US (or Europe for that matter).

If you don't mind my asking, you mentioned above that you decided some 18 years ago that you and DH would like a posting overseas. I'm intrigued....

Oh, I'd like to ask you something: you mentioned in another thread that you know some expats who work in orphanages but often they don't talk about it. Do you know of more details and could you possibly share? If you'd rather not, I'd totally understand. I'm thinking of asking the charity that I'm doing some work for (so far, only some admin and book-keeping work) whether they know of or can put me in touch with some orphanages, so I could volunteer there. It'd be good for me to be prepared/ to know of what to expect beforehand. But again, no worries otherwise.

Changing the subject, you've already planned your trip for NEXT winter?! DH and I are usually last-minute people and can't plan so far in advance. I understand the ice sculptures (sp?) in Harbin are very beautiful.

I'd LOVE for us to meet up some time. You sound really cool and I'd love for us to meet up. DH occasionally travels to Dalian, so perhaps I could go with him next time he goes there.