Cat owners - anyone with any experience with "heart murmurs"?

[Lynn B]

Well... yesterday we picked up Boo, my daughter''s new 14-week old Ragdoll. He''s 100% adorable and she is totally in LOVE.

The breeder met us half-way, which was nice, and saved us about an hour''s travel time. When she handed him to us, along with his "Health Record", she casually pointed to a notation on the paper that said, "Have vet watch heart murmur." I asked what that meant and she said that her vet noted (when he was neutered a week ago) that he has a "very slight" heart murmur, "nothing to worry about, he''ll probably outgrow it." She even said her vet is SUPER picky and often finds things other vets "never even notice."

Well, I was a little uncomfortable and apprehensive about that, but I wrote out the check for the balance we owed her and we went straight home and to OUR vet for an appointment I had already made when I knew we were getting him.

Well... our vet examined him and was appalled at what we were told was a "very slight" murmur. He said it is a "VERY STRONG" murmur, he would NOT outgrow it, and it has the potential to be very serious. Boo could have any number of chronic physical problems, including a shortened life span. OR, we could get lucky and he could have no problems at all. The vet said he has seen it go both ways, plus everything in between. Just no way to tell at this point.

Before we got Boo, we had met the breeder and visited the cattery several times. There were no red flags to us, although we have never "bought" any animal before, so we have no experience with these sorts of things. These are completely uncharted waters for us.

I am in contact with the breeder now and she seems to be responsive and wants us to be satisfied. She offered to replace the kitten, but she won''t have any more kittens for many months and my daughter is already in love with Boo.

So, my questions are these... does anyone have any experience with a cat with a heart murmur? Any information will be greatly appreciated. I need to decide soon what we are going to do... and maybe some feedback and advice (from someone who has been there) will help.

THANK YOU!

 

[whatmeworry]

Not a cat, but my dog (the German Shep) has heart murmurs. She was diagnosed about 7 years ago during a routine physical exam. She had no outside symptoms of heart problems because she could run all day if you let her. The vet recommended a pet cardiologist who put her on a heart monitor for 24 hours. That confirmed the heart murmur and the cardiologist also said it could go either way as far as affecting her life span. He prescribed Sotalol and that abated the murmurs. She''s been on sotalol (expensive, about $130 a month) now for 7 years. Whether or not she would have lived as long as she has without the meds, who knows? Good luck in your decision.

 

[Tacori E-ring]

My male cat had a heart murmur when he was a kitten. I did not know about it until we took him to be fixed only to be called a few hours later to saying they would not perform the surgery on him. We waited a few more months and the murmur was gone (or slight enough that they could safely put him to sleep) He is not 2.5 years old and besides being over weight (he has food issues

) he is in perfect health. I would suggest getting a second opinion or wait to see if the kitten does outgrow it. You never know.

 

[JenniferB]

Lynn, that is not right! I don''t have any experience with cat heart murmurs (sorry

) but wanted to wish you and your kitty the best. Ragdolls are very pretty kitties. Please post a pic of your baby when you get a minute!

 

[Miscka]

My cat has a heart murmur. She, too, is very young. My vet wants to recheck it in a month and do an ultrasound. It can lead to Cardiomyopathy if untreated. She said that worse case scenario her heart walls are thicker and she will need to be started on a cardioprotective medication routine (like baby aspirin). I also had a cat die of cardiomyopathy when I was younger, but he lived to a good old age. I wouldnt panic at all, and I hope it works out for you and your daughter!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Lynn - that is so sad. Poor Boo. I think that everyone is probably right in this situation - heart murmurs are very difficult to predict in terms of prognosis. I do think the breeder should have told you earlier in the process if she knew. I am so sorry that you and your daughter are dealing with this anxiety but I applaud you for being pro-active with vet care and trying to take care of little Boo.

I also have to say, and please don''t take this the wrong way, but the fact that the breeder had available kittens (you mentioned "many" in your previous post on the the Ragdoll thread I believe) running around the cattery is a red flag. Usually a really good breeder of either cats or dogs will have a waiting list for their puppies/kittens, otherwise they won''t breed. Do you know if Boo''s parents were fully screened for health issues as well? This is also an important part of the process of responsible breeding, and if you haven''t already, you might want to request copies of those records in case they help your vet treat Boo more effectively. I''m really not trying to judge you, your breeder, or your decision, just providing my perspective and knowledge for whatever its worth, so I really hope you are not offended.

I will keep my fingers crossed for you, your daughter, and Boo that everything works out well and his heart murmur doesn''t cause any serious problems and he is able to live a long and happy life.

 

[Madam Bijoux]

One of my cats had a heart murmur and she lived to be 19. Things should be OK as long as you have the vet check it regularly.

 

[FireGoddess]

I haven''t had any experience with kitty heart murmurs Lynn, but I just wanted to send my support to you. I hope it works out okay and little Boo has no problems with it.

 

[crystalheart1]

Lynn

This is so sad... This could turn into an issue - with expensive medical bills. I don''t think this kitten should of been made available for you to adopt. I would try to get another healty kitten - Maybe through another breeder and ask this one for your money back. I am sorry your daughter loves this kitten. It is better for the loss early on, then endure heartbreak with possible serious health issues or worse , in the future.

 

[AmberGretchen]

With all due respect crystalheart, I completely disagree.

I do agree that the breeder should have made Lynn and her daughter aware of the problem as soon as she knew about it and given them the option of adopting Boo or not. However, I don''t agree that just giving the kitten back to the breeder and getting another one is the right thing to do. There is never a 100% health guarantee with pets (or with humans for that matter) and heartbreaking health problems can always occur. I strongly believe, however, that as long as the animal''s quality of life is not affected (in this case it sounds like it isn''t), that animal is just as deserving of a loving home as the next one.

In terms of money, I can see where the breeder probably should offer you money back, and I think its worth asking about that. But this kitten deserves a loving home and unless your daughter is really financially incapable of taking care of the kitten''s potential future veterinary needs, I can''t see why she shouldn''t be that home.

I''m sure my bias on this is different than many people''s because I volunteer in animal rescue, but I think your daughter is doing a wonderful thing (and so are you by supporting her) giving a loving home to this kitten that, through no fault of its own, has a health issue that may or may not turn into a serious and costly problem down the line.

 

[crystalheart1]

Hi - Yes I can understand your point. This kitten should be in a loving home. I have had cats my whole life. I am just a little cautious with breeders . I was wrong in my post saying to give this kitty back. I had a very bad experience with a breeder that I obtained a persian kitten from. Long story - but this kitty could not be littered trained and had serious health issues.
I kept the cat for several years, but paid thousands of dollars getting all my carpets ripped up and replacing them with hard surface and wood floors. The cat would not use the litter box... I never had this problem with any other cats I obtained through shelters..

 

[AmberGretchen]

crystalheart - that's very generous and mature of you to see it from my perspective, and I really appreciate you posting that (not being sarcastic at all here, sorry if it sounds that way - that's the trouble with the internet and communication!).

I am sorry to hear about your problematic experience with getting a kitten from a breeder. Without knowing more, I won't comment any further than that on the situation, but I am sincerely sorry you had to go through that.

And I'm glad to hear we have another cat lover on the board - there are many of us here, as I'm sure you can tell. If you have current kitties be sure to add them to the "no dogs allowed" thread - we love cute kitty pictures!! And even if you don't have them right now, thank you for giving a loving home to shelter kitty/kitties who needed one - I truly believe that providing a loving home for an unwanted animal is one of the best things a human being can do.

ETA: Lynn - sorry to thread hijack. I really hope Boo is alright and will continue to send good thoughts to him, to your daughter and to you!!

 

[Lynn B]

Thank you all so much for your help, information, personal experiences and support. You have no idea how much it means to us.

And AmberGretchen, please don't worry -- no offense AT ALL taken. xoxox I appreciate your opinions and your honesty. Part of the problem here is that we have never "bought" any animal before... we have always owned "free-to-a-good-home" or rescue pets... so this whole breeder/pedigree thing is totally uncharted waters for us.

We love Boo dearly already, and want to keep him, and we are willing to accept all responsibility for his future health issues (if any). So I guess the issues are twofold, at this point: #1) naturally, we are quite worried, but are we hoping he beats the odds and lives a long, happy, healthy life, and #2) we paid a (hefty) full price for a "healthy" kitten, and we didn't get a healthy kitten, so although I hate putting dollars and cents on his precious little life, I do believe we are entitled to a (significant) discount, and I have asked the breeder about that. Haven't heard back yet, though.

And well, I guess there's also issue #3, which is that we should have been told right away about about the murmur... NOT when she handed him to us. She knew about it at least one week before we picked him up. If we had known beforehand, we could have explored and assessed our options... but now that he is here, in our hearts and home, it would be very difficult to give him up.

I am reluctant to call into question her ethics or her breeding practices... I don't know enough about it to even speculate. We did visit the cattery several times (even though it is quite a distance away), and I saw no "red flags", but again, I know next to NOTHING about breeding cats, and have no experience with it. She has/had 4 litters total at this time: two younger litters (one litter is only about 2 weeks old, and the other litter is maybe 4 weeks old.) Boo was one of a litter of 3, and they are all placed and gone, and all the kittens in the next youngest litter are also all spoken for, although they are not quite old enough to leave yet. They cattery was clean, and the breeder is friendly and personable, and genuinely seems to love all of the cats. And I live in a small rural area, and she is the ONLY breeder within a day's driving distance to us.

Oh, BTW -- all of her breeding cats are allegedly Feline Leukemia negative... but my vet did not want to trust her word on that, so we had Boo tested, and he was negative. I was very happy about that.

 

[crystalheart1]

I am a kitty lover - My cat''s name is Crystal

Hence CrystalHeart... She is a doll.. Good Luck with BOO
WOW - there is a connection here

I am sure she is a DOLL and hopefully will have a Very Happy and Healthy Life with you. I would just let the breeder know there was a miscommunication between slight and severe ...

 

[Miranda]

Oh Lynn, I''m so sorry to hear about Boo''s troubles. What a sweetie he is. I don''t have any advice for you other than that my parents'' dog is O-L-D and she''s had a murmur for quite some time. She seems to run low in the energy dept., but, other than that she''s fine. I am hoping this all works out for the best. Since I recently spent $$$ on a Ragdoll, I can understand completely your concerns. You paid for a healthy cat, but, did not get one. I''d be a little bent.

 

[FireGoddess]

OMG Boo is such a sweetie face. I wouldn''t be able to give him back either. I agree though, that you are entitled to at least a partial refund on the purchase price - the murmur is a health issue and she really should have told you about it when she found out.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Lynn - Thank you for not taking offense. It is very difficult to determine the legitimacy of cat or dog breeders, especially since this is the first time you''ve done this. Its so wonderful that you''ve had rescue kitties all your life. I am so glad you''re not offended and have taken my post for what it was - sharing my own (limited) knowledge on the topic and hoping that you might benefit from that knowledge in the future.

I completely agree with your current course of action - it sounds like you guys have chosen a rational but compassionate approach and I admire you for it.

In the spirit of (hopefully) helpful information, I''ve been reading a bit on heart murmurs in cats, and have found the following three pieces of good/encouraging news (verified by checking in the scientific literature)(please pardon me and feel free to skip reading this if you already know all of this):

1. heart murmurs are apparently not uncommon in kittens and often go away with age (around 6 months seemed to be most common time). I wasn''t able to find great numbers on this, since I would imagine the reporting isn''t great (from a vet''s perspective - why report a minor problem that gets better on its own?), but there was an abundance of anecdotal evidence on the subject; in fact, I was unable to find a single report of a kitten with a murmur where it didn''t go away. Again, no good numbers, so take it with a grain of salt, but not entirely discouraging either.

2. heart murmurs on their own without other symptoms seem to have the best rates of survival and quality of life, with most studies I looked at citing survival times of at least several years in older cats, often much longer. Other symptoms are things like lethargy and trouble breathing, and it doesn''t sound like Boo has any other symptoms, so that speaks well to his prognosis.

3. the severity of the heart murmur is not correlated with the severity of any disease that may be present, so the fact that Boo''s heart murmur itself is severe has no correlation necessarily with any heart condition that may be present. If indeed there is anything actually wrong with his heart besides the murmur, which is essentially harmless on its own and in the absence of underlying disease.

It sounds, from what I read, like a full workup would be ideal, including as appropriate, an ultrasound and/or echocardiogram to determine if there is actually damage to his heart or not, but since he is so young and has no other apparent symptoms, your vet might recommend waiting to see if it goes away on its own.

It sounds like the best thing to do in the meantime is try to keep him as relaxed and happy as possible so that he isn''t stressed in case there is a heart issue - stress could make it worse. If he does have a heart condition, holisticat.com has some excellent suggestions for herbal supplements to give in addition to any medications your vet may recommend. Nothing would be a guarantee in this case, but there is certainly an abundance of both anecdotal and scientific/statistical evidence that I was able to find that indicates that many cats with hypertrophic cariomyopathy (the most likely heart condition if there is one) live long, happy, healthy lives even after diagnosis.

I hope that helps a little!!

 

[emeraldlover1]

Date: 5/15/2007 7:02:59 PM
Author:Lynn B
Well... yesterday we picked up Boo, my daughter''s new 14-week old Ragdoll. He''s 100% adorable and she is totally in LOVE.

The breeder met us half-way, which was nice, and saved us about an hour''s travel time. When she handed him to us, along with his ''Health Record'', she casually pointed to a notation on the paper that said, ''Have vet watch heart murmur.'' I asked what that meant and she said that her vet noted (when he was neutered a week ago) that he has a ''very slight'' heart murmur, ''nothing to worry about, he''ll probably outgrow it.'' She even said her vet is SUPER picky and often finds things other vets ''never even notice.''

Well, I was a little uncomfortable and apprehensive about that, but I wrote out the check for the balance we owed her and we went straight home and to OUR vet for an appointment I had already made when I knew we were getting him.

Well... our vet examined him and was appalled at what we were told was a ''very slight'' murmur. He said it is a ''VERY STRONG'' murmur, he would NOT outgrow it, and it has the potential to be very serious. Boo could have any number of chronic physical problems, including a shortened life span. OR, we could get lucky and he could have no problems at all. The vet said he has seen it go both ways, plus everything in between. Just no way to tell at this point.

Before we got Boo, we had met the breeder and visited the cattery several times. There were no red flags to us, although we have never ''bought'' any animal before, so we have no experience with these sorts of things. These are completely uncharted waters for us.

I am in contact with the breeder now and she seems to be responsive and wants us to be satisfied. She offered to replace the kitten, but she won''t have any more kittens for many months and my daughter is already in love with Boo.

So, my questions are these... does anyone have any experience with a cat with a heart murmur? Any information will be greatly appreciated. I need to decide soon what we are going to do... and maybe some feedback and advice (from someone who has been there) will help.

THANK YOU!

Hi Lynn! I have some experience in this area. I too have an expensive pure bread cat. He is a sphynx. After I picked him up from the breeders I took him to my vet and had him checked to make sure what the breader mentioned checked out. The vet immediatley diagnosed him with a slight heart murmur. The vet suggested that over the next year we keep an eye on him; watch out for consistent sneezing is all I remember her telling me then. Fast forward a year, I moved and took him to a vet closer to where I moved in Philadelphia. The vet there told me that his heart murmur was then Very Strong and that I needed pet insurace, and ultra sound, and probably loads of medication. I decided at that time, given my financial situation just being out of school that I would wait since he wasn''t having any immediate problems. Fast Forward two years, took him to the vet that had the same diagnosis. The funny thing is, he had to look at his notes to remember he didn''t hear it in the exam.

Ok, then I moved to New York City and took him to a vet that specializes in just Cats. Its actually called the Cat Practice. My cat is now 5 years old and he no longer has a heart murmur. My vet never heard it. I ask every time that I go in and he still says its not there. He told me that sometimes purebread cats'' heart valves don''t fully develop untill they are older. When the valves open and close the blood is supposed to go in one way and out the other, if one valve does not close properly then some of the blood flows in the opposite direction. This is what he explained the heart murmur is and why they can grow out of it. Granted, he told me this two years ago so if I didn''t explain it properly I''m sorry. I tried to get it down as I rememberd.

Anyway, my suggestion is to get a different opinion from another vet. All pets can be a lot of money regardless of the heart murmur or not and if you love Boo then you should keep him and hope for the best. I asked the breeder and there policy was that if the cat died from the heart murmur then they would refund some of my money. That never happened and now he doesn''t have one.

Hope this helps. My camera battery is charging but I''ll send a picture when I can. His name is Tini, he''s a 7 pound blue pointed with blue eyes sphynx. He''s my little man, and he''s awesome.

 

[scarleta]

Lynn: My dog also has a heart murmur since he was a puppy.It was picked on a routine exam.No symptoms, no problems at all.He is 11 yrs old now and never a problem in that department.The vet recommended some more specific tests if we wanted , but we declined.
You know I also have had the same condition myself for as long as I can remember.I have no problems and did not want any tests.Based on this we did absolutely nothing and everything is just fine. Your kitty is absolutely adorable and hope it turns out nothing to worry about.Good luck ..

 

[basil]

I don''t know anything about cats.

My sweet 8-year old puppy is dying of a heart condition caused by a genetic murmur, though. She''s on a medication list most humans would be fortunate to have. She has to get shots twice a day, and she has good days and bad days. She goes to a dog cardiologist, gets echocardiograms, chest x-rays, and is participating in a dog Lipitor study. A few weeks back she had to spend overnight in an oxygen cage at the vets''.

She''s the most loving wonderful dog I''ve ever met, and it''s tearing my heart out, especially because I''m far away from her now. I love her to pieces but I could never get another dog of her breed since I don''t think I could go through this again.

I''m not really sure this has anything to do with your situation, and I''m sorry. I am surrounded by death and dying daily, and most people around me wouldn''t understand.

 

[FireGoddess]

((I''m so sorry Basil.

))

 

[Miscka]

Look at that face! How could you not be in love??? I think you should still see what the breeder says, keep us posted. Animal health problems can be so distressing

Right now my cat is on antidepressants for separation anxiety!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

He is so cute! I hope the murmur resolves itself. Not only did our 2 year old have one but he also used to wheeze (while breathing) when he slept. I have not noticed that either. I think it is amazing what they can "grow out of."

 

[golden]

MY DOG PIERRE, WHO IS 8 HAS A HEART MURMUR- HE GOES TO A CARDIOLOGIST IN MANHATTAN. THEY HAVE DONE ECHOCARDIOGRAMS ON HIM. YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY SEE A SPECIALIST TO SEE IF YOUR CAT NEEDS TO BE ON MEDACINE FOR IT.
WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED?

 

[golden]

BASIL I AM SO SORRY TO HEAR! I HOPE SHE DOES WELL!

LYNN- WHAT AN ADORABLE CAT!

ALSO- THE DOCTOR SAID WITH PIERRE, HE COULD BE TOTALLY FINE AND THEN ANOTHER TIME, FROM THE HEART MURMUR, PASS OUT. IT IS VERY SCARY, YOU SHOULD DEFINITELY GET IT CHECKED OUT.

 

[scarleta]

So sorry Basil about your little friend.I guess it could happen.Every situation is different I suppose. You are doing lots for her. Hope it gets better ...

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 5/16/2007 3:42:48 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
With all due respect crystalheart, I completely disagree.

I do agree that the breeder should have made Lynn and her daughter aware of the problem as soon as she knew about it and given them the option of adopting Boo or not. However, I don't agree that just giving the kitten back to the breeder and getting another one is the right thing to do. There is never a 100% health guarantee with pets (or with humans for that matter) and heartbreaking health problems can always occur. I strongly believe, however, that as long as the animal's quality of life is not affected (in this case it sounds like it isn't), that animal is just as deserving of a loving home as the next one.

In terms of money, I can see where the breeder probably should offer you money back, and I think its worth asking about that. But this kitten deserves a loving home and unless your daughter is really financially incapable of taking care of the kitten's potential future veterinary needs, I can't see why she shouldn't be that home.

I'm sure my bias on this is different than many people's because I volunteer in animal rescue, but I think your daughter is doing a wonderful thing (and so are you by supporting her) giving a loving home to this kitten that, through no fault of its own, has a health issue that may or may not turn into a serious and costly problem down the line.

Couldn't agree more!!! Best of luck Lynn, there is a reason this little one ended up with you! Basil I am so sorry.

Lynn, perhaps ECF our specialist cat vet who often posts here might see your thread and offer some insights.

 

[AmantdeChat]

Just wanted to let you know that my Jasmine was diagnosed with a slight heart murmur when shen was little. She is now going to be 16 this August, and no other vet has ever brought it up. So she either grew out of it, or it was misdiagnosed in the first place. Not sure which, since, in all honesty, I forgot she had it and when no other vet said anything about it, I never thought about it again until your post!

Good luck. He sure is a sweetie and, fingers crossed, he won''t have any problems with the murmur.

 

[togal]

We were told a long time ago, when we brought one of my cats in for vaccination, that she had a heart murmur. I think my cat was around 2 years old then -- she''s now around 9 or 10 years old, and she''s still going strong -- she''s never had any major health issues to speak of (touch wood), and nothing related to her heart. Although, we do affectionately call her "Ethel Murmur" (okay -- we''re a bit silly about our cats

).

 

[Cind11]

Boo looks adorable. My cat Phantom was just in to have surgery to remove bladder stones. The internist and surgeon (went to a specialty practice) told me he had a heart murmur which I knew nothing about. He''s ten years old. One said it was a two and the other a 2/3. (out of 6 I think) They said that number only correlates to how loud the murmur sounds not severity. Anyway, they suggested I take him to a cardiologist which I did. They did a echocardiogram which showed he has areas in his heart that are thicker than normal and areas that are thinner. His lower left venticle isn''t filling properly which is causing his upper left atrium to be slightly enlarged. She said his heart is so weird that she couldn''t even come up with a specific disease category. Figures. He''s now on a medication to hopefully keep this problem from getting worse as well as a small dose of Aspirin to lessen the chance of a blood clot. (that really freaks me out!!!) I think if you''re really concerned, perhaps take him and have an echo done, it could help to allay your fears and at least you''d know exactly what the problem is. Or maybe it isn''t a problem at all. I''m sure you''re already attached and want to do what''s best for the kitten. If there is a problem, it seems the breeder should do something to compensate you. Hope it all works out.