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Can't Hillary just say "Yes I lied"?

redwood66

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I watched the interview with Chris Wallace yesterday and it was interesting. When the woman shows her softer side like when she talks about her mom and daughter then I can see her as a more likable person. I totally understand what she has been through all these decades fighting as a woman in a man's world. But it has made her a cast iron bitch that people do not like at all. And as far as trusting her, I just can't.

As an aside I think that Chris was tough but fair. I like him very much and for the most part cannot tell his own views which is how it should be.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/31/clintons-claim-that-the-fbi-director-said-her-email-answers-were-truthful/
 

arkieb1

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I'm going to start by saying I am no particular fan of Hillary at all, having said that US male senators, US presidents and US military generals having been telling lies for decades, some bigger than others. If a man in these positions tells a lie sometimes they are called out on it, more often though, it makes them strong, they lied for the sake of the country, to keep their secrets, usually we accept their decision and move on. If a man has as much blind ambition as Hillary then generally this is seen as a admirable quality, but because she is a woman she is a "cast iron bitch people not only don't like but they don't trust."

I don't like her either but for the few P/Sers, and there are a few of you that simply cannot stomach voting for her, I think you need to think about how much more the country can self destruct from within if you have Trump for a leader. Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, Hillary who is far from honest or a much nastier alternative. Not voting or voting for someone else is great in theory but it's a bit like Brexit, if Trump is elected and all the non voters and alternative voters cry foul as they country becomes a [email protected]#*show then sadly it will be too late...
 

redwood66

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arkie it comes down to party platform for me. Its just that simple. I do not believe the things she wants to do will help this country and likely will make us go down the tube further. "Its the economy stupid" is true just like she "almost" said when talking about the dumb white men.

As far as her being the way she is, I don't want women to be men. I am a hot head and therefore would not be a good president - heck I might be worse than Trump. :lol: For me if someone lies it does not matter what gender they are. Nixon lied, JFK lied, Reagan lied, B. Clinton lied, they all lie.

Her email scandal is particularly problematic in that people have been fired or jailed for far less egregious security breaches.
 

AGBF

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arkieb1|1470063301|4061295 said:
I don't like her either but for the few P/Sers, and there are a few of you that simply cannot stomach voting for her, I think you need to think about how much more the country can self destruct from within if you have Trump for a leader. Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, Hillary who is far from honest or a much nastier alternative.

...​

if Trump is elected and all the non voters and alternative voters cry foul as they country becomes a [email protected]#*show then sadly it will be too late...
arkie, Paul Krugman just said what you did in "The New York Times". Here is an excerpt from his Op-ed column.

"Is there any reason to believe that a Clinton victory would lead to irretrievable disaster? Because that’s the question you should be asking yourself.

Start with the least important issue (even if it is my specialty), economics. If you’re a Republican, you presumably believe that center-left policies — higher taxes on top incomes, a big subsidized expansion of health insurance, tighter financial regulation — are bad for the economy. But even if you think the Obama economy should have been better, the fact is that we’ve added 11 million private-sector jobs; stocks are way up; inflation and interest rates have stayed low; the budget deficit has withered away.

So it’s not a disaster, and there’s no reason to believe that a Clinton economy would be a disaster either. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is talking about wildly irresponsible tax cuts, renegotiating debt, and ripping up trade agreements.

Moving up the scale of importance, what about national security? Even if you think that President Obama could have gotten better results by bombing more and talking less, there’s just no way to paint Mrs. Clinton — who has the support of many retired military leaders — as some kind of pushover for terrorists and foreign aggressors. Meanwhile, her opponent talks about abandoning NATO allies if they don’t pay up and seems fine with Russian adventurism in Ukraine.

Most important of all is the question of democracy at home.

I know, conservatives like to complain that Mr. Obama has overstepped his authority by, say, using administrative discretion to delay some provisions of the Affordable Care Act. But let’s be serious: no non-crazy person, even on the right, thinks that this president is acting like a dictator, or that the woman he wants to succeed him would threaten basic liberty. On the other side, anyone watching her opponent has to be very, very worried about his authoritarian streak.

The bottom line is that even if you don’t like Mrs. Clinton or what she stands for, it’s hard to see how you could view her possible victory with horror. And it’s hard to see how you could view Mr. Trump’s possible victory any other way.

How, then, can rational Republicans justify supporting Mr. Trump, or even remaining neutral, which is in effect giving him half a vote?

For rank-and-file Republicans, it’s presumably about feelings. Having spent so many years denouncing Democrats in general and Mrs. Clinton in particular, they have a hard time admitting that someone else could be much, much worse. But democracy isn’t about making a statement, it’s about exercising responsibility. And indulging your feelings at a time like this amounts to dereliction of your duty as a citizen.

And whatever one may say about ordinary voters, the real sinners here are Republican leaders — people like Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell — who are actively supporting a candidate whom they know poses a danger to the nation.
(snip)"
 

redwood66

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AGBF|1470065760|4061306 said:
So it’s not a disaster, and there’s no reason to believe that a Clinton economy would be a disaster either. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is talking about wildly irresponsible tax cuts, renegotiating debt, and ripping up trade agreements.
Can he actually do these things by himself? No. In fact most of the things he wants to do cannot be done by "he alone." So these are scare tactics by the Dem side just like the ones used by Republicans.

Yet the increasing debt without regard for the consequences will be a disaster eventually IMO.
 

kenny

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arkieb1|1470063301|4061295 said:
... but because she is a woman she is a "cast iron bitch people not only don't like but they don't trust." ...
Precisely!
The word choice of bitch drips with misogyny.
We expect our women to be demure, soft and feminine.
We admire men who are strong and authoritarian, but squirm when women are.
Not cool.

Hopefully she'll get into the Oval office, and zillions of misogynists will get their knickers in a twist over and over for 4 or 8 years, they'll get over it, and we'll grow as a society towards gender equality.

Go ahead and criticize Hillary when she deserves it, which will be often!
But let's nix the gender-role-stereotyping terms like bitch.
 

redwood66

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People vary. I will say the words I want to. I don't want people to be anything other than what they are. If that is what she is then that is what she is.

I can be a bitch at times. Just ask my DH. Its a word. And I won't be in a twist about anything, it will be what it is no matter what any of us would like, or say, or do. Genders are not equal in many things.
 

kenny

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redwood66|1470071588|4061321 said:
People vary. I will say the words I want to. I don't want people to be anything other than what they are. If that is what she is then that is what she is.

I can be a bitch at times. Just ask my DH. Its a word. And I won't be in a twist about anything, it will be what it is no matter what any of us would like, or say, or do. Genders are not equal in many things.
screen_shot_2016-08-01_at_10.png
 

redwood66

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Right back at ya.

Can you breathe the air on that high horse kenny?

And this is convenient (and like a dem) to turn this around to attack me because of my use of one word rather than the topic posted.
 

azstonie

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Apparently quite a few Americans like a successful man, good education, with experience. If you're a woman with those attributes you're threatening and you're a liar and untrustworthy.

Grow up. Politicians parse their words and they do make their political survival a top priority. Given that reality, pick your effing candidate.

When Obama ran the first time, "too inexperienced" was the euphemism for black.

Now that Hillary is running, "liar" is code for woman, and "untrustworthy" is code for might do something for children and society's vulnerable.
 

redwood66

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The point of the thread is she did not tell the truth. And keeps not telling the truth. I don't like liars of any flavor.
 

kenny

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redwood66|1470072326|4061326 said:
Right back at ya.

Can you breathe the air on that high horse kenny?

And this is convenient (and like a dem) to turn this around to attack me because of my use of one word rather than the topic posted.
screen_shot_2016-08-01_at_11.png
 

BeekeeperBetty

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redwood66|1470067088|4061310 said:
AGBF|1470065760|4061306 said:
So it’s not a disaster, and there’s no reason to believe that a Clinton economy would be a disaster either. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is talking about wildly irresponsible tax cuts, renegotiating debt, and ripping up trade agreements.
Can he actually do these things by himself? No. In fact most of the things he wants to do cannot be done by "he alone." So these are scare tactics by the Dem side just like the ones used by Republicans.

Yet the increasing debt without regard for the consequences will be a disaster eventually IMO.
That's interesting since everything is Obama's fault.

If the President has so little power, then, who is to blame for the supposed fact that America is not great? Could it be - the Republican Congress? :think:
 

redwood66

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Its always all about who can blame the other side. Both sides. Besides its still Bush's fault. :lol:

She's still lying.
 

lovedogs

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BeekeeperBetty|1470078005|4061367 said:
redwood66|1470067088|4061310 said:
AGBF|1470065760|4061306 said:
So it’s not a disaster, and there’s no reason to believe that a Clinton economy would be a disaster either. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is talking about wildly irresponsible tax cuts, renegotiating debt, and ripping up trade agreements.
Can he actually do these things by himself? No. In fact most of the things he wants to do cannot be done by "he alone." So these are scare tactics by the Dem side just like the ones used by Republicans.

Yet the increasing debt without regard for the consequences will be a disaster eventually IMO.
That's interesting since everything is Obama's fault.

If the President has so little power, then, who is to blame for the supposed fact that America is not great? Could it be - the Republican Congress? :think:
This is what makes me so incredibly irritated. So often this is the Republican defense: "EVERYTHING IS OBAMA'S FAULT!" Followed directly by something like "BUT TRUMP CAN'T DO ALL THE TERRIBLE THINGS WITHOUT HELP BECAUSE OF CHECKS AND BALANCES". That hypocrisy drives me crazy. You cannot have it both ways. Either everything is NOT Obama's fault, OR Trump really WILL be that much of a disaster.

I'm not even going to start on the fact that Hillary doing what men have been doing FOREVER suddenly makes her a "bitch", but when a man does it they are "strong willed" and "impressive". I just don't understand any of that logic. :wall:
 

momhappy

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arkieb1|1470063301|4061295 said:
I'm going to start by saying I am no particular fan of Hillary at all, having said that US male senators, US presidents and US military generals having been telling lies for decades, some bigger than others. If a man in these positions tells a lie sometimes they are called out on it, more often though, it makes them strong, they lied for the sake of the country, to keep their secrets, usually we accept their decision and move on. If a man has as much blind ambition as Hillary then generally this is seen as a admirable quality, but because she is a woman she is a "cast iron bitch people not only don't like but they don't trust."

I don't like her either but for the few P/Sers, and there are a few of you that simply cannot stomach voting for her, I think you need to think about how much more the country can self destruct from within if you have Trump for a leader. Yes, it's a bitter pill to swallow, Hillary who is far from honest or a much nastier alternative. Not voting or voting for someone else is great in theory but it's a bit like Brexit, if Trump is elected and all the non voters and alternative voters cry foul as they country becomes a [email protected]#*show then sadly it will be too late...
While I understand what you're saying, for some of us, voting for HRC is more than just "a bitter pill to swallow."
I think both candidates will be a sh*tshow, but at the same time, I don't think either one will cause this Country to self-destruct.
 

Kaleigh

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I am not getting into the silly banter of Kenny. People vary... and I am one of them...

My answer is yes it would be great if Hillary said yes, I lied... think it would go a long way.. It's all in the delivery of course. But think I she'd gain a lot of trust if she'd just own it...

Not a fan of either but going to vote none the less.
 

Madam Bijoux

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If she lied, she should say so. Perhaps she was telling the truth.
 

BeekeeperBetty

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I'm not convinced that she lied about anything. The whole thing feels like a witch hunt made up by the GOP because they can't stand that a woman could possibly become President. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that she lied about the e-mails or Benghazi. I also listen to conservative talk radio every day while I'm in the car shuffling my kids around because it gives me the giggles, so I've heard the arguments. Still not convinced.
 

kenny

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BeekeeperBetty|1470082995|4061401 said:
I'm not convinced that she lied about anything. The whole thing feels like a witch hunt made up by the GOP because they can't stand that a woman could possibly become President. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that she lied about the e-mails or Benghazi. I also listen to conservative talk radio every day while I'm in the car shuffling my kids around because it gives me the giggles, so I've heard the arguments. Still not convinced.
I used to listen to 'Dr. Laura'.

Fricking Hilarious!!!!!
 

stracci2000

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BeekeeperBetty|1470082995|4061401 said:
I'm not convinced that she lied about anything. The whole thing feels like a witch hunt made up by the GOP because they can't stand that a woman could possibly become President. I haven't seen any convincing evidence that she lied about the e-mails or Benghazi. I also listen to conservative talk radio every day while I'm in the car shuffling my kids around because it gives me the giggles, so I've heard the arguments. Still not convinced.
Betty, I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying.
I, too, have been listening to conservative radio, just to hear what the conservatives are saying. They are falling all over themselves, trying to demonize Hillary Clinton, with no proof. Just a bunch of made up, exaggerated malarkey!
 

NonieMarie

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redwood66|1470077445|4061364 said:
The point of the thread is she did not tell the truth. And keeps not telling the truth. I don't like liars of any flavor.


redwood,
Donald Trump has a very long history of lying. He will lie about anything and everything, especially when it makes him appear more successful and important. He has lied about his wealth and his business success. All the lies are out there. I wish someone would list them all with dates and on the record sources. Most, if not all, of the sources would be Donald Trump himself. Just this weekend he was asked about his personal relationship with Putin, he denied any relationship. He is on the record, on video, saying the exact opposite more than once over a period of years. He even said he had spoken with him, now says he had not. He seems to think if Putin says something "very nice" about him, he is a good guy and should be praised. This whole argument about the debates brought out another lie. He said the NFL was upset about the scheduling of the debates and wrote him a letter. The NFL released a statement and said that that is a lie, no letter was written.

I agree the email server was a lack in judgement. If that is the lie you are referring to, I understand. She was investigated up one side and down the other and was chastised, brutally, by the FBI directer but they found nothing that proved she was "intentionally" careless.
If you are referring to Benghazi, please look up the article that Chris Steven's sister wrote. She said that her brother knew the risks of traveling to the Mission with limited security, and it was his decision, not Clinton's, to go. She laid the blame, at the feet, of the Republican held Congress who repeatedly denied the extra funding needed to protect State Dept employees abroad.

As Washington Post's Dana Milbank wrote:

For fiscal 2013, the GOP-controlled House proposed spending $1.934 billion for the State Department's Worldwide Security Protection program — well below the $2.15 billion requested by the Obama administration. House Republicans cut the administration's request for embassy security funding by $128 million in fiscal 2011 and $331 million in fiscal 2012. ...Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that Republicans' proposed cuts to her department would be "detrimental to America's national security" — a charge Republicans rejected.

If you are speaking of Pat Smith, Sean Smith's mother, who spoke at the RNC Convention. There are conflicting accounts of what was said regarding "the video". Before the cherry picked statement of "a video", Clinton said it was a terrorist attack. She remembers one thing and others there remember something else. Despite what keeps getting repeated by Trump surrogates, at no time has Clinton ever called Pat Smith a liar. She has been empathetic and kind even after Pat Smith said that she held Clinton personally responsible for her son's death. Now that shows someone with the levelheadedness and temperament to be President. Not Trump who can't help himself and continues to attack the Kahn's and has his people slander them with lies about their connection to terrorism, even going so far as to suggest their son was a terrorist.

During the Bush administration, there were around 14 embassy attacks resulting in over 60 deaths. I do not remember there being 1 let alone 3 investigations into any of them.

I do have to take issue with the word b###h. Yes, I have been called that, by my husband, in the heat of an argument and I have called him an a##hole. But, there is a big difference when that is leveled at a powerful woman. A woman can be called a b###h in the heat of an argument and a man a p##ck but that is in the context of the argument you are having right then. Calling Clinton or any other powerful, successful woman a b###h is similar to calling a person of color uppity or articulate (sounds positive but is not). It becomes a code word and gives some people license to dislike and even hate that person with no rational. It has become a derogatory slur against men, too. Why do men get upset at being called that? They don't want to be demeaned by being referred to as a woman. We, as women, still have a long way to go to be treated as equals in this country of ours.

redwood, please take this as a continuation of our respectful conversation of differing opinions :wavey:
 

redwood66

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My biggest issue is the email thing. I will repeat over and over that both my sons would be in jail for less. Benghazi is terrible and I don't think we will ever really know. Its all smoke and mirrors to cover up deficiencies.

I have said I don't like Trump. Can't stand him in fact. But we have enough Trump threads and Hillary deserves her own for this latest issue IMO.

ETA - NM thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I respect your opinion.
 

NonieMarie

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redwood66|1470085080|4061415 said:
My biggest issue is the email thing. I will repeat over and over that both my sons would be in jail for less. Benghazi is terrible and I don't think we will ever really know. Its all smoke and mirrors to cover up deficiencies.

I have said I don't like Trump. Can't stand him in fact. But we have enough Trump threads and Hillary deserves her own for this latest issue IMO.

ETA - NM thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I respect your opinion.
Just curious, what did you think of Trump looking into the camera, asking the Russians to look for the deleted emails? He was not joking even though now he says he was. He asked a foreign government that we are at odds with and has sponsored terrorism for their own gain, to interfere in our election. It has been debated back and forth if that was something that would bring charges of sedition or even treason. Yes, we do know about Benghazi. There were 3 investigation, one was by Republicans that did everything in their power to pin it on Clinton. She was cleared in all 3. I respectfully ask, if you were able to take the email argument out, and as we've seen all other charges have been disproved. Would you still be so hard on her?
 

momhappy

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lovedogs|1470078869|4061369 said:
BeekeeperBetty|1470078005|4061367 said:
redwood66|1470067088|4061310 said:
AGBF|1470065760|4061306 said:
So it’s not a disaster, and there’s no reason to believe that a Clinton economy would be a disaster either. Meanwhile, Mr. Trump is talking about wildly irresponsible tax cuts, renegotiating debt, and ripping up trade agreements.
Can he actually do these things by himself? No. In fact most of the things he wants to do cannot be done by "he alone." So these are scare tactics by the Dem side just like the ones used by Republicans.

Yet the increasing debt without regard for the consequences will be a disaster eventually IMO.
That's interesting since everything is Obama's fault.

If the President has so little power, then, who is to blame for the supposed fact that America is not great? Could it be - the Republican Congress? :think:
This is what makes me so incredibly irritated. So often this is the Republican defense: "EVERYTHING IS OBAMA'S FAULT!" Followed directly by something like "BUT TRUMP CAN'T DO ALL THE TERRIBLE THINGS WITHOUT HELP BECAUSE OF CHECKS AND BALANCES". That hypocrisy drives me crazy. You cannot have it both ways. Either everything is NOT Obama's fault, OR Trump really WILL be that much of a disaster.

I'm not even going to start on the fact that Hillary doing what men have been doing FOREVER suddenly makes her a "bitch", but when a man does it they are "strong willed" and "impressive". I just don't understand any of that logic. :wall:

I know lots of republicans who understand that not everything is Obama's fault because we understand that the issue is far more complex than that. I am not an Obama fan and will be glad to see him leave office, but I have never thought that Everything is all his fault. I'm sure that Obama has contributed to some degree (in various ways), but I think most people are aware that the power of a president is limited. I'm not denying that the hypocriy you mentioned might exist, but It's not been my personal experience.
And to answer whether or not HRC has lied or not. She has. Big time. But they all do to some extent (so I'm not just picking on her just because she's a woman :rolleyes: ). Part of my other problem with her is that she will say just about anything to get elected and how ironic is that considering how many times I've heard that Trump is only it in for the power/ego (which is probably true). I actually feel the same way about HRC and she has a lot more at stake considering she could be our first female president.
 

redwood66

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NonieMarie|1470087811|4061425 said:
redwood66|1470085080|4061415 said:
My biggest issue is the email thing. I will repeat over and over that both my sons would be in jail for less. Benghazi is terrible and I don't think we will ever really know. Its all smoke and mirrors to cover up deficiencies.

I have said I don't like Trump. Can't stand him in fact. But we have enough Trump threads and Hillary deserves her own for this latest issue IMO.

ETA - NM thank you for taking the time to post all that info. I respect your opinion.
Just curious, what did you think of Trump looking into the camera, asking the Russians to look for the deleted emails? He was not joking even though now he says he was. He asked a foreign government that we are at odds with and has sponsored terrorism for their own gain, to interfere in our election. It has been debated back and forth if that was something that would bring charges of sedition or even treason. Yes, we do know about Benghazi. There were 3 investigation, one was by Republicans that did everything in their power to pin it on Clinton. She was cleared in all 3. I respectfully ask, if you were able to take the email argument out, and as we've seen all other charges have been disproved. Would you still be so hard on her?
He is grandstanding and playing to his base that got him the nomination. I do not agree with many of the idiotic comments he makes. Why he does it I have no idea.

I am not any harder on her than anyone else who doesn't like her. As I said above to arkie it is about the party platform for me and my vote is against Hillary and not for Trump. We will never see eye to eye and I feel all politicians are self serving. None of them in it for the majority of us. I wish they were unpaid and had term limits.
 

AprilBaby

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Redwood66, you are a brave women!
 

arkieb1

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Ahhh but can the party control Trump, that remains the question. I don't get why Hillary HAS to admit any lies, Trump is a MUCH bigger liar, yet people aren't calling him a [email protected]#* and demanding he tell the truth in the same way they are Hillary. That was my point above it's a double standard. The porkies Bush told for the sake of the country are well documented yet few are calling him or the party for that matter to account.

I keep reading people can't possibly vote for her because it will be more of the same as Obama. Obamas decision making was crippled literally by senate republicans who rejected purposeful bill after bill, yet so many are willing to hand over the governing of the country to the very same misogynistic NRA backed A-holes that helped to put the economy where it is today, led by a boarder line sociopath.

With the NRA hand in hand with Trump I wish all of you the best of luck, because lets face it more guns, more division and more chaos IS going to lead to more not less instability. If you had a half decent conservative leader, I wouldn't even be commenting but the fact you keep quoting Hillary's so called lies about Benghazi, Bill, and her emails, you obviously can't imagine how much larger the lies will be Trump will be telling, and the instability his leadership might just bring.

And we, most other nations, will sit back incredulously watching how a country could hate itself enough to install someone like him as their elected leader.
 
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