Can a girdle be thickened?

[audball]

Pearlmans has the stone in hand today. I decided to go ahead and send it to them to see if any rehab is even necessary. Hopefully we'll know something soon!

For the ebay fiends -- the seller advertised this stone as a .80ct H VVS2. John already replied that he is certain it is not VVS2 and estimates VS2 right now (we'll know more concretely after further inspection). They're also going to unset and weigh it, evaluate color, etc.

There was some warmth in profile view of the stone so I don't know if the color is accurate either.

The seller had no returns, and we honestly love the stone and plan to keep it, but seeing as how it's turning out not to be at all as advertised, what do you think about a partial refund?

I notified her as soon as we received it that we'd be having it unset and evaluated to verify that it is as advertised and would be in touch if it's not saying we'd be amenable to a partial refund. She told us just to return it, but we want to keep it.

We'll see how it goes, we'll probably keep it either way even if she doesn't agree to anything, but how she has (already poorly) handled her communications with us is definitely going to affect her seller rating from us.

 

[Mara]

Honestly, with eBay, depending on what I paid, I can sometimes cut the sellers slack because half the time they are getting these things looked at with local jewelers vs a true GIA GG who might be more conservative, and are fairly loose with color/clarity interpretation. I just bought a stone that said F/G color and VS clarity, and I am almost positive it's more like a J/K color but the price was right so I bought it anyway... however it's usually good to just get them to at least state it so you do have a leg to stand on if you do decide to approach them again.

Also, depending on the seller, sometimes I may not even bother with asking for anything. My OEC from eBay was advertised as at LEAST 7.5mm. I asked him to confirm the 7.5mm three times. He did. It ended up being more like 7.4-7.45, not a huge diff off but again, he confirmed it 3 times because diameter was important to me. And it has a feather that just barely reaches the surface, which he didn't notice. Anyway I let him know what the stone checked out as... but I didn't ask for anything back. He said he was so sorry, he only advertised what his jeweler told him (which is common IMO) and I know he was an honest guy so haggling for $100 or something didn't seem worth it to me to color the whole transaction with me in my mind, I just wanted to enjoy my ring.

Lastly, sometimes these sellers are selling because they've hit hard times or really need the money themselves, and since I am the buyer ...buying a diamond, which let's be honest is not quite like food or clothing... I can't always hold with haggling for the money back if it would really affect their lives negatively. Talking more like private sellers here vs pawn shops or jewelry stores etc where they probably have more margins than someone selling because their family needs something.

Just my two cents. But if it does check out at more like a I VS, and you still got a better deal than retail, I'd just count it a successful transaction and call it a day. Can't wait to see your stone set. Good luck!

 

[audball]

Those are my thoughts too, mostly.

As long as we didn't pay over fair market value for a second hand stone of the size/color/clarity that it really is, we're okay with what we paid.

The thing that's gotten to me most about the seller is her unprofessional communications. She blatantly ignored emails from us prior to the sale after I questioned her about something. We ultimately decided to take the risk of her 'no return policy' because we figured if it was drastically different than advertised we could return it under ebay protection if we didn't want to keep it. We do want to keep it, but this being our first stone, we're not sure if we paid a fair price.

She's been very snarky and rude in her messages. Saying we have no reason not to trust her completely unqualified opinion.

She told us she had a jeweler's appraisal on the stone and that is how she had the gradings. What she didn't tell us is that it was graded while in it's setting which made everything approximate and really a guess being in a 6 prong yellow gold setting.

We paid $1,350 for the ring if that makes any difference to someone's opinion.

ETA: Just got an email back from John. It's been evaluated unset as a .78ct J/K VS2 with an excellent cut. He said the girdle is quite thin in some places, but that he thinks it could be set without rehab with the thinner parts protected in the bezel. His recommendation is to send it along to Sholdt for their opinion.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Look on OWD for retail "comps". You paid a good price for the carat weight and cut. Those are the two things I take into consideration when evaluating a diamond bought from ebay. For clarity and color, being so completely subjective, I personally always assume a stone is J-K-L when thinking about its value when I am buying, no matter what the ebay listing says. Clarity, I don't care as long as its eye clean. My experience is you cannot trust appraisers on clarity in particular Only a GIA report would really allow that variable to be assessed properly! So that leaves carat and cut quality is the main "value" criteria I will use. Sellers also don't know much about the latter, so that is the wild card in ebay OEC purchases. You found a good one for cut, that is worth a lot of money.

There is really only one situation where I personally would ask for a partial refund: If the diamond is under a carat weight of major value shift when it is advertised as being over that marker. I don't think 0.78 versus 0.80 qualifies for that, since 0.80ct is not a major carat weight marker. I consider half, 1ct, and 1.5 to be the majors. The one carat mark is especially important because it almost doubles the per carat price.

I received a partial refund of the seller of my 0.97ct stone because it was sold as a 1.03ct. I told the seller I was keeping the stone because it was lovely, but was disappointed about the carat weight because of the value. She then asked what would make me happy and I said a small refund would do it, and she gave it to me. If she had not asked/offered I would not have asked and would not have dinged her feedback either, because the stone matched her listing for color and clarity and was gorgeous, the wild card factor. So in your shoes I would basically do what you did, and when the seller said no, I would decide: "Send it back or keep it as is?" You might find another stone as lovely for about that price. Maybe You might save a couple hundred bucks. I don't think its worth the hassel myself.

 

[audball]

Look on OWD for retail "comps". You paid a good price for the carat weight and cut. Those are the two things I take into consideration when evaluating a diamond bought from ebay. For clarity and color, being so completely subjective, I personally always assume a stone is J-K-L when thinking about its value when I am buying, no matter what the ebay listing says. Clarity, I don't care as long as its eye clean. My experience is you cannot trust appraisers on clarity in particular Only a GIA report would really allow that variable to be assessed properly! So that leaves carat and cut quality is the main "value" criteria I will use. Sellers also don't know much about the latter, so that is the wild card in ebay OEC purchases. You found a good one for cut, that is worth a lot of money.

There is really only one situation where I personally would ask for a partial refund: If the diamond is under a carat weight of major value shift when it is advertised as being over that marker. I don't think 0.78 versus 0.80 qualifies for that, since 0.80ct is not a major carat weight marker. I consider half, 1ct, and 1.5 to be the majors. The one carat mark is especially important because it almost doubles the per carat price.

I received a partial refund of the seller of my 0.97ct stone because it was sold as a 1.03ct. I told the seller I was keeping the stone because it was lovely, but was disappointed about the carat weight because of the value. She then asked what would make me happy and I said a small refund would do it, and she gave it to me. If she had not asked/offered I would not have asked and would not have dinged her feedback either, because the stone matched her listing for color and clarity and was gorgeous, the wild card factor. So in your shoes I would basically do what you did, and when the seller said no, I would decide: "Send it back or keep it as is?" You might find another stone as lovely for about that price. Maybe You might save a couple hundred bucks. I don't think its worth the hassel myself.

Per retail comps on OWD, looks like we did very good. I don't know how to judge cut quality from the OWD photos, but they have a few that are exactly .77-.79 in the J/K color VS2 clarity for around $2300 which is 1k more than we paid. I ended up doing just as you said and messaged her saying this is what we found out. I'll see if she does/offers anything. I don't feel she warrants negative feedback, but she doesn't warrant positive feedback either. She was very unprofessional and downright rude in many of our email communications and has been very unpleasant to deal with.

I don't mind warmer colors so the J/K doesn't bother me. We were looking at L/M AVCs before trying our hand at ebay. Eyeclean is mindclean to me and John said clarity is good, just not what it was advertised to be.

Does anyone know what the price difference is for just a partial recut/girdle rehab with BGD vs. a full recut? The cut is so beautiful I don't want to have a full recut but depending on what Sholdt's opinions are, we may have to look into having the girdle faceted to get our dream setting.

 

[audball]

Okay, so Pearlman's gemologist said the girdle is 85% Extremely Thin.

Lesley said they charge $350/carat for a recut with a $350 minimum. The cost for our stone to be recut, even partially, is $350.

The setting we chose is the Sholdt Semi Bezel that will have two sides of the stone completely exposed.

Would you take the risk and have the stone set without rehab?

OR

Would you take the risk to have it partially recut to thicken the girdle and possibly lose some weight and/or spread?

I am so confused and stressed right now.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Breath. Relax. This is not the end of the world

You have three options:

a) sell the diamond and look for another. You can likely recoup your own costs. But thin girdles are common in old cuts. I think this issue will come up no matter what (unless you pay full retail and buy a stone with a report)

b) facet the girdle. The risk is small, but present. Odds are this option only carries the cost of $350. Worth it to have the mount you desire perhaps.

c) risk it for a chip. You could have insurance that would replace your diamond. If you plan to risk it then I would personally spend the money to get a lab report on the stone, EGL is fine for this purpose, or you can go GIA, then have it appraised and insured. Adds some time. But when the stone is chipped you can simply buy a retail stone with the same specs as yours including the report and not worry about it. If you are not sentimental this could be a good option. You would need good insurance that lets you pick the replacement stone, like Jewelers Mutual.

 

[Skippy123]

Audball, I thought I needed a polish on my stone, just a tiny polish and turns out I don't but anyway, a polish was going to cost $300 so I don't think it gets cheaper than $300, but I could be wrong.

ditto Dreamer on lots of old stones having thin or chipped girdles

 

[audball]

Breath. Relax. This is not the end of the world

You have three options:

a) sell the diamond and look for another. You can likely recoup your own costs. But thin girdles are common in old cuts. I think this issue will come up no matter what (unless you pay full retail and buy a stone with a report)

b) facet the girdle. The risk is small, but present. Odds are this option only carries the cost of $350. Worth it to have the mount you desire perhaps.

c) risk it for a chip. You could have insurance that would replace your diamond. If you plan to risk it then I would personally spend the money to get a lab report on the stone, EGL is fine for this purpose, or you can go GIA, then have it appraised and insured. Adds some time. But when the stone is chipped you can simply buy a retail stone with the same specs as yours including the report and not worry about it. If you are not sentimental this could be a good option. You would need good insurance that lets you pick the replacement stone, like Jewelers Mutual.

Thanks Dreamer. I'm feeling a bit better.

I love this stone so I don't think we want to sell it. I'm sure we could recoup the costs, but you're right, this is a common old stone problem and we'd likely have to deal with it on another stone anyway, and the new stone may (or may not) be as lovely as the one we were lucky enough to buy on our first try.

I don't think risking it for such an important piece is okay to us.

We're going with option B. Lesley has been wonderful, as has John at Pearlmans. Pearlmans is going to send it directly to BGD for us and we'll at least hear what Brian has to say about the stone. I think the $350 is worth the piece of mind if nothing else.

 

[audball]

Audball, I thought I needed a polish on my stone, just a tiny polish and turns out I don't but anyway, a polish was going to cost $300 so I don't think it gets cheaper than $300, but I could be wrong.

ditto Dreamer on lots of old stones having thin or chipped girdles

Thanks, again, Skippy. It's going to BGD. Lesley said Brian will take a look at it and we'll go from there. She said they'd take care of us and that we'd see what we could do on the price once Brian can take a look at what it really needs.

 

[audball]

Ebay seller is crediting us 150 bucks, bringing the cost of the stone down to 1200. Not bad

John from Pearlmans is sending the stone out today to Brian who should receive it Monday. They are going to evaluate the options and we'll go from there. Lesley has been great via email and said she talked with Brian about it extensively.

They are going to do everything possible to try and cut a girdle in without doing a full recut which will hopefully minimize the weight and spread loss.

PS dust for luck.....

 

[audball]

Brian has evaluated our stone. He says he feels it is possible to cut in the girdle and polish the crown and pavilion to make it safe for our setting choice. Estimated spread loss is 2/10 of a mm and weight loss of 1-2 points. Pearlmans weighed it at .78-.79 so we'll even stay above the magic .75ct mark.

Price was very reasonable, timeline is 4-6 weeks. Then the diamond will be sent back to us where will get to play with her all fixed up and unset for a few days before shipping her off to Pearlmans for setting. Pearlmans will send the stone to Sholdt who will take 4-6 weeks on the setting.

Good thing we aren't in any hurry!

 

[Amys Bling]

So excite for you!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Great! All told, you will have an amazing diamond for a fraction of the price you would pay new.

 

[audball]

Great! All told, you will have an amazing diamond for a fraction of the price you would pay new.

Thanks Dreamer It is, we're very happy to have it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Audball what did the millimeter diameter end up being for your stone? Curious because I recall the listing and the seller said something wacky like the stone was 4mm

 

[audball]

Audball what did the millimeter diameter end up being for your stone? Curious because I recall the listing and the seller said something wacky like the stone was 4mm

Hi Dreamer

John at Pearlmans has misplaced his official numbers, he's trying to find them! But now BGD has the stone so he can't re-measure if he can't find them.

I measured them at home with digital calipers (though an engineer's calipers, not jewelry calipers if that makes a difference) and I was getting 5.6mm in one direction and about 5.8mm in the opposite. It does not look out of round.

The seller advertised as 4-5mm and it was definitely closer to 6. Wish it had been 6!

Now that BGD has the stone, we'll get very official before and after photos, weight, and measurements, timeline is 4-6 weeks though!

 

[Amys Bling]

Ahh can't wait to see it!

 

[audball]

It's here! I posted an update in my thread over in the LIW section. See it here! Photos, a video, and digital files from BGD including the Sarin, Idealscope, ASET, and their shot of the diamond.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/we-bought-a-diamond.171629/