Calling teachers - career input..?

[arjunajane]

I'm not really one for doing "personal" threads on PS, however I know we have many intelligent professional men and women here, and I'm in need at the moment of a lil career advice..

In the next year I will be finishing my undergraduate degree at University. I currently have a very good job I am happy in at the same Uni I study at, and there is definitely scope for me to continue on my projects there for the next 2-3years at least..
In the next week I am required to develop a strategic work place plan, which should define my long term career goals, so that my manager / the Uni can start tailoring my role and professional development toward obtaining those goals. There is quite a reasonable amount of flexibility in this.

Long story short - like many folks at my stage, I still am not sure exactly what I want to do

I enjoy my job and it's a fantastic team - but the nature of the place, the fact is the money will never be great; and without being too obtuse, if I wanted to stay with them beyond graduation I would need to move into a choice of two role directions, neither of which I'm all that hot about.

Even though I know it's pretty silly, I don't have a desired career path related to my undergrad degree, so instead I am looking at the option of Post-grad study, specifically a diploma in secondary education.

Out of all the careers I have considered, teaching seems the most appealing to me.
I can do a one year Dip-Ed to become qualified as a Secondary teacher, during which time I would continue p/t relevant work in my current role.
In Australia, Secondary / High School goes from years 8 through 12 (age 13 to 17). I don't have any interest in teaching the younger kiddies (under 13's)..

So, to bring me to the point of my ramble, I know we have many teachers here on PS, and before making this big decision I could use all the input I can get.
If those in the field (any level), would be so kind as to fill me in a lil on their experiences and thoughts on their jobs, it would be of help to me

To get it started, I guess I'd like to know things like:
What type/level and subjects do you teach?
What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?
(If it's not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?
Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?
..and so on..you get the point

I have my own reasons of course for choosing teaching, but I would love to know what your reasons were, and if the career has fulfilled your ideas / expectations..?

Any other guys or gals who are not teachers are also willing to comment, positive or negative, advice or criticism its all good

I'm looking forward to reading your replies, I know they will be very helpful - and thanks in advance for letting me air some "personals" around here - I promise, it won't happen again too soon

Many Thanks
AJ.

 

[zipzapgirl]

I think the first question is, what are they using this information for? Do they see it as inevitable that you will leave this position, or it that not taken for granted?

This might be your first real experience with an HR process and its easy to make mistakes by doing what you think they want you to do: honestly chart out your ideal career. I know I''ll likely be called out for being a cynic here, but I think you always have to have foremost in your mind who is reading this and what they will actually be using it for. If it''s your boss and HR, then it will be used to determine if you are a promising prospect for important projects and promotions, and to cover their a$$es if some legal issues arise. As nice as it would be to submit an honest assessment of where you see yourself going, I think I''d avoid shooting myself in the foot by saying anything about opportunities outside of the university. If they at all see you jumping ship, they might hesitate in investing in your training, development, or promotions. The easiest default answer for this survey is to say you want your boss'' job in 5-10 years, or something equivalent. No one says that this is written in stone or that you might not change your mind if a great opportuinity (within or outside of the univ) arises.

Forgive me if I am a bit harsh. I''ve jumped through a lot of HR hoops in my career, and I generally identify all of these exercises as STOP LOSS, not Value-added.

 

[Tuckins1]

Date: 1/7/2010 9:24:26 AM
Author:arjunajane
I''m not really one for doing ''personal'' threads on PS, however I know we have many intelligent professional men and women here, and I''m in need at the moment of a lil career advice..

In the next year I will be finishing my undergraduate degree at University. I currently have a very good job I am happy in at the same Uni I study at, and there is definitely scope for me to continue on my projects there for the next 2-3years at least..
In the next week I am required to develop a strategic work place plan, which should define my long term career goals, so that my manager / the Uni can start tailoring my role and professional development toward obtaining those goals. There is quite a reasonable amount of flexibility in this.

Long story short - like many folks at my stage, I still am not sure exactly what I want to do

I enjoy my job and it''s a fantastic team - but the nature of the place, the fact is the money will never be great; and without being too obtuse, if I wanted to stay with them beyond graduation I would need to move into a choice of two role directions, neither of which I''m all that hot about.

Even though I know it''s pretty silly, I don''t have a desired career path related to my undergrad degree, so instead I am looking at the option of Post-grad study, specifically a diploma in secondary education.

Out of all the careers I have considered, teaching seems the most appealing to me.
I can do a one year Dip-Ed to become qualified as a Secondary teacher, during which time I would continue p/t relevant work in my current role.
In Australia, Secondary / High School goes from years 8 through 12 (age 13 to 17). I don''t have any interest in teaching the younger kiddies (under 13''s)..

So, to bring me to the point of my ramble, I know we have many teachers here on PS, and before making this big decision I could use all the input I can get.
If those in the field (any level), would be so kind as to fill me in a lil on their experiences and thoughts on their jobs, it would be of help to me

To get it started, I guess I''d like to know things like:
What type/level and subjects do you teach?
What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?
(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?
Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?
..and so on..you get the point

I have my own reasons of course for choosing teaching, but I would love to know what your reasons were, and if the career has fulfilled your ideas / expectations..?

Any other guys or gals who are not teachers are also willing to comment, positive or negative, advice or criticism its all good

I''m looking forward to reading your replies, I know they will be very helpful - and thanks in advance for letting me air some ''personals'' around here - I promise, it won''t happen again too soon

Many Thanks
AJ.

i am a special education teacher for grades k-7 (next year k- I really love teaching because I enjoy helping children and seeing their faces light up when they finally "get it". I really dislike all of the beurocratic red-tape that goes along with it, but that is to be expected no matter what job you have. Behavior issues are prevalent in my school, more so than in other schools I have worked in, but that''s because of the area that I work. (urban/povertly level/etc...) This particular job serves me well right now. I make a very good salary for a new teacher- well over the average. I also have a GREAT 401k program and awesome insurance. The down side to this school is that it is not a public school, so the pay raise for getting your Master''s degree is only $1000.00. (Public schools will bump you up 10-15 thousand). I do enjoy it, however I think that in the future I would like to move on to teaching at a college level. I can tell that I will eventually be burnt out on teaching remedial phonics/reading/math.

 

[KimberlyH]

What type/level and subjects do you teach? I have a M.Ed in Elementary Education. I live in CA and the job market for teachers was awful when I graduated and still is. I am a substitute and work mostly in the special education department ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) classrooms. Last year I worked part time as what my district calls an Impact Teacher. Title I funds provide for one per grade level at the school where I worked. I taught reading, writing, and math to 5th graders who were struggling in those subjects.

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching? The beauracracy of teaching is tedious. But, I spent 10 years working in private corporations prior to switching to this career (I haven''t quite made a career of it yet, but plan to) and don''t find it any more daunting or difficult. I''ve had difficult bosses in both situations and actually find teaching a better situation to be in when that is the case because transferring is much easier when working in the public sector.

I love every other part of my job, except for the above mentioned. I find it completely gratifying, a feeling I''ve never had in any other position I worked (I worked in HR and as an executive assistant prior to teaching). I was also lucky enough to be exposed to a population that I might not have otherwise encountered, children with autism, and I have turned that into a part time job, I do behavioral consulting work on the side.


(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work? This question really is dependent on where one lives. I don''t make much at all as a substitute and don''t have benefits, nor did I have them when I was an impact teacher and while my hourly salary was good, I certainly couldn''t have supported myself on that salary alone. On the whole, full time teachers in CA are paid very well especially if they have their master''s degree, and the benefits are fantastic. When I have my own classroom I will be satisfied with my pay. For now I feel as though I''m paying my dues, which is part of the deal in any profession.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher? As I mentioned above, teaching led me to working with children with autism, which has opened up a whole new field of work for me. I''m pregnant and plan on staying home, but will continue to do consulting part time, which I am looking forward to. At some point I will return to the classroom, but for now I''m in a fantastic position to pursue what I love part time.

 

[Haven]

What type/level and subjects do you teach? I currently teach developmental English at a community college. I have been doing this as an adjunct instructor since 2004 or 2005. I spent three years teaching high school English and reading full-time. I also teach in Northwestern''s Center for Talent Development on Saturdays, which is a gifted program for K-12. I''ve been teaching there since 2004. I''ve taught every grade level in that program, although 3rd and 4th grade is my favorite age, there. I''m also just starting to teach graduate students in the reading and literacy program from which I graduated. I''m very excited about that.

I first earned my BA in English and literature, then I went through an MA program in teaching secondary English for my secondary cert, and most recently I earned my M.Ed. in reading and literacy for my K-12 Reading Specialist cert.

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching? I love working with students. I love discussing ideas big and small, and I love watching students become better readers and writers throughout the course. I love that I spend my working time helping people develop skills that will enhance their lives.

When I was teaching high school, I hated the lack of autonomy. It was clear that the school''s administration did not believe in their teachers, and they looked at us as if we were malcontents (especially the English department) who needed to be micromanaged. This experience is very unique to the particular administrative team with which I was working, so it is certainly not like that everywhere.

In general, the biggest negative about teaching English at the secondary and higher ed levels is the sheer amount of grading required. You have to provide consistent formative feedback, and that means you''ll probably end up spending many, many hours outside of school reading papers and providing feedback.

(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work? I was paid relatively well as a high school teacher. If I end up taking a full-time community college position I''ll only make about 80% of what I was making teaching high school. It''s worth the pay cut to me, though, because I prefer teaching this level to high school.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher? I suppose the biggest change I''ve made is from teaching high school and community college to just focusing on my community college career. I have zero desire to teach high school ever again, so that is why I''m focusing only on my CC classes at the moment.

As for career progression, the most obvious would be moving from a teaching position to an administrative position. If that is something you''re interested in, then it is certainly an option.

 

[beechezz]

To get it started, I guess I''d like to know things like:
What type/level and subjects do you teach?
Special Education High School Science (Grade 9 Earth Science and Grade 10 Biology)

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?
Like: independence in the classroom, flexibility to teach content in my own teaching style, and the students!
Dislike: too much politics, unnecessary paperwork, and sometimes the parents

(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?
Yes, I am. It’s a lot of work, but definitely rewarding!
Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?
I just became a teacher in 2003, before that I worked in customer service for 13 years, and this is by far the BEST JOB I have ever had. It can be frustrating, but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinion.
I have my own reasons of course for choosing teaching, but I would love to know what your reasons were, and if the career has fulfilled your ideas / expectations..?
I always dreamed of being a teacher (loved school as a child), and when I had the opportunity to go back to school to get my degree I jumped at the chance. I LOVE the reward of sharing my passion for teaching with my students. I believe they can feel it and get excited because of it!
Any other guys or gals who are not teachers are also willing to comment, positive or negative, advice or criticism its all good.
My recommendation is that you need to love kids to be a good teacher. I find many people do it that don’t love kids, and it doesn’t make for a great combination.

Hope all of this helps, best of luck to you!

 

[PinkTower]

I enjoy teaching as a profession because I still have one child at home. Being able to work while she is in school and being able to be home when she is at home is wonderful. It outweighs all the negatives such as paperwork and low pay at this point in my life.

 

[zoebartlett]

What type/level and subjects do you teach?

I've taught first and second grades (and developed a literacy intervention program for Kindergarteners -- 5 year olds), and I'm currently teaching first.

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?

I love seeing how much my students grow academically throughout the year. They're still at a really cute stage, too, which helps me get through grueling days. They're just so funny!

(If it's not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?

I would love to make more, and I don't understand why teachers' salaries aren't on par with other professionals'. I do hate that although I'm doing the exact same work, I'm paid much lower in my new state than I had been previously before we moved.


Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?
..and so on..you get the point

I've often thought of going back to school and working towards a certification in library science. I don't think I'd go back for a second masters degree because I wouldn't make more money as a result. I love being in school though, and that's an area that I'd love to explore at some point. I wouldn't have the same responsibilities, which in a way, might be a relief someday.

I have my own reasons of course for choosing teaching, but I would love to know what your reasons were, and if the career has fulfilled your ideas / expectations..?

This career is definitely rewarding and fulfilling, but as in any career, it has its ups and downs.

ETA: For some reason, the questions weren't highlighted like I wanted them to be.

 

[Asscherhalo_lover]

What type/level and subjects do you teach?

I teach middle school children diagnosed with Autism, 6-8th grade although my students range is age from 10-14. I have a B.S. in elementary education and a MSEd in elementary special education.

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?

I love the teaching, the kids, the projects, everything.

I hate the ridiculous amounts of useless paperwork. I work in New York and we have to do the NYS alternate assessments and they''re just an absolute nightmare. That on top of the fact that my school provides us with almost zero supplies and literally no resources to work with. I have to make up every worksheet and project myself, we have almost no resources

(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?

I am actually, I make much more than any of my friends who are my age and like others have mentioned, the insurance and pension plan is fantastic. Once I finish another 30 graduate credits I''ll be making more per year than my step father who has been working in the NYC parks department for 20 years, especially if you teach summer school, an extra 20% for about 5 weeks of work...it''s worth it.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?

I know that eventually I''ll move on, but I plan on staying in the school system and getting my degree in administration, I would love to be a coach or unit teacher. When I''m really done with working in schools I will always be able to teach children who are home based and you make plenty of money doing that.

 

[zoebartlett]

I forgot to mention the things I dislike about teaching.

1. It''s the only profession that I know of where your boss comes in to your work space (classroom), watches you work, takes notes, and then evaluates your performance based on that one snapshot. It''s still an odd concept for me, and I''ve been teaching for a long time now.

2. Teachers aren''t always trusted and/or given more freedom to do what they feel is best for their students. That''s probably the over-arching reason that I left my former teaching job after only a few months. A school''s or district''s administration can be wonderful or non-supportive. One is great to work with/for, while the other is definitely not.

3. Teachers'' opinions aren''t always asked for or taken into consideration when choosing certain books, materials, etc. for various curriculum areas. Often times, those decisions are made by people (curriculum coordinators or other administrators) who aren''t actually teaching. That''s frustrating.

4. It''s hard to leave work at work. I always take work home and it''s hard to turn my brain off at night because I''m always running the day''s events in my head. I don''t dislike my job because of this, but it''s not the typical 9-5 type of job.

5. The salary doesn''t match up with the actual work being done, if that makes sense. As I said in my last post, I don''t understand why we''re not paid on the same scale as other professionals.

*** I really do love what I do, trust me. These things are frustrating, but I deal with it because I love working with little kids. I can''t imagine working with the big kids. Yikes!

 

[Sabine]

I taught high school (ages 15-18, grades 9-11) English for 3 years, and that''s what my degrees are in. I recently stopped to be a SAHM, but I would have quit/changed careers if I hadn''t gotten pregnant.

There were some great parts of teaching, and I did love some of my students and really have a passion for English literature, but I really hated teaching and it''s not for me.

I hated how much time/effort it took to come up with interesting lesson plans, and usually the students didn''t appreciate it. I hated how I knew every other English teacher out there was doing the same thing, but we all work alone and don''t really share ideas or help each other out. And most of all, I hated that I had to deal with students who just did not want to be there and did everything they could to make the classroom a horrible place (and most still felt entitled to a passing grade so they could move on), but I had no support from administration to discipline them in effective ways and they honestly ruined the class for the rest of the students and made it impossible for them to learn.

I have a feeling a lot of the administrative problems would be better at a different school, but overall I felt like the time/effort was not worth it, and then I felt like a guilty failure if I didn''t put in the time/effort.

 

[pennquaker09]

What type/level and subjects do you teach?

Secondary Mathematics and Science (I prefer the physical sciences, particularly chemistry, to the life sciences.)

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?

I think my favorite moments are when you see that spark. Like, they''re dealing with a very tough concept and they get it and have a sense of accomplishing something. I just loved those moments. I loved sharing my passions (math and chemistry) with students and I especially the ones who umm, find out that they like those subjects. Kids that like math and very few and far between, however.

Some of the parents could be a bit much. Everyone thinks their child is gifted and that''s annoying. I didn''t care for a lot of the older teachers, but I think it was just the school I was at. I had the pleasure of teaching at a magnet school, so even my worst students were like making Cs and were putting forth effort.

(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?

I didn''t go into it for those reasons. However, to be blatantly honest, I''m a trust fund kid and my DH is a doctor, so I realize it''s easy for me say that. Of course, now I''m a SAHD, but I anticipate going back to the classroom.

But, buying calculators and paying for experiments is expensive.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?

I honestly don''t know what the future has in store, but I think teaching is what I was meant to do - if I don''t spend my life being a parent. I have a masters in curriculum and instruction and I would really like to use it, lol.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I''m a university prof so my experience isn''t really helpful about teaching, but I wanted to know if you thought that there was room to move around within the Uni to a different position if you stay in your current position? I have always thought that working for a university is a great job because of the security and the generally pleasant and positive work environment. My impression of the staff at the Uni''s I have been at is that when they begin working there they often move aorund within the Uni to different positions and departments when they change interests or want more challenge. Is that a possibility for you and would you be interested in it? There are perks to being at a Uni that are not present in a highschool environment, most notoably the absense of 13 year olds

, though obviously the job itself is different.

I also wonder if you have looked into the need for teachers in your area? Where I am it takes years of supply/substitute teaching to lad a full time position, and many people are not employed after teaching college. Just something to think about if you have not already.

 

[Gypsy]

Arj... I went to HS with my cousin in Austalia for about a week when I was in highschool, and I gotta tell you, different worlds than our system here. Our teachers aren't treated (at all) well, in terms of respect at all, by either students or parents and well... you don't really get a decent edcucation here (because of BS politics) with realy substance unless you go to a private school, or more likely college. There are a FEW really good public school districts, don't get me wrong. In fact I live right next to one. But... for the most part... from my own observations. Secondary school teachers in Australia are treated more like our professors at college are, rather our highschool teachers. Who are usually dealing with overflowing classes, not enough resources, parents who don't care about anything other than the bottom line (the Grade, not the education) and a society that doesn't value their contribution, their time or their education... and pays them nothing for their life's work. And if you are in a private school, you migh tget paid better, but since the parents are paying your salary, they really expect to 'buy' their kids grades.

Sorry I pretty much think being a HS teacher in the states is the least respected job. Even our trash collectors (Sanitation Engineers) get more respect. That might be exageratting it, and I might be completely off base. But from what I saw in Australia, the teachers seemed like that had a much better position.

I think it's great that you want to teach, BTW. It's sad that our teachers don't get the respect, time, funding... etc, they deserve.

Not a teacher though, so disregard my post if you want!

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/7/2010 10:25:38 AM
Author: zipzapgirl
I think the first question is, what are they using this information for? Do they see it as inevitable that you will leave this position, or it that not taken for granted?


This might be your first real experience with an HR process and its easy to make mistakes by doing what you think they want you to do: honestly chart out your ideal career. I know I''ll likely be called out for being a cynic here, but I think you always have to have foremost in your mind who is reading this and what they will actually be using it for. If it''s your boss and HR, then it will be used to determine if you are a promising prospect for important projects and promotions, and to cover their a$$es if some legal issues arise. As nice as it would be to submit an honest assessment of where you see yourself going, I think I''d avoid shooting myself in the foot by saying anything about opportunities outside of the university. If they at all see you jumping ship, they might hesitate in investing in your training, development, or promotions. The easiest default answer for this survey is to say you want your boss'' job in 5-10 years, or something equivalent. No one says that this is written in stone or that you might not change your mind if a great opportunity (within or outside of the univ) arises.


Forgive me if I am a bit harsh. I''ve jumped through a lot of HR hoops in my career, and I generally identify all of these exercises as STOP LOSS, not Value-added.

Hi zipgirl - usually I would be right there with you on the skepticism, however the concerns you have bought up don''t really apply in this situation.

I don''t like giving away too much info on what I do etc, but basically I work for a university in an area that is *very* different to the corporate sector. I have had HR procedures like reviews in the past in other jobs, and in those situations your advice would have been spot on ! Fortunately, not the case in my current role.

To answer your initial question, yes my manager has the understanding (and has done from the start) that I will move on from this position after graduation, so that is not a concern. We have already discussed my plans at some length and there is no issue; I know my position is safe until graduation (and beyond if I desire). There is enough scope in what I am doing to continue projects for the next 10 years at least, lol...I''m just not sure if I want to be that person for that long is all.

I completely understand and appreciate where you are coming from, and I don''t want you to think I''m being naive, but this plan is very different to what you would usually encounter in a corporate "rat race" setting.
I spoke to a number of my colleagues and they all see them as positive tools that they embrace.

The direction from my manager is to establish what exactly are my career goals after my graduation occurs, so that we can better tailor my current role and projects towards supporting those goals; plus we have paid professional development (to attend conferences/summits etc) interstate or overseas each year - and we need to make sure I choose relevant PD to attend that will boost my resume, hence the need for this plan.

As I said, I appreciate your concern and where you are coming from - but I feel fortunate in that I don''t need to be worried about things like my manager or HR using this plan against me - it''s just not their MO, if you know what I mean

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/8/2010 12:53:45 AM
Author: Gypsy
Arj... I went to HS with my cousin in Austalia for about a week when I was in highschool, and I gotta tell you, different worlds than our system here. Our teachers aren''t treated (at all) well, in terms of respect at all, by either students or parents and well... you don''t really get a decent edcucation here (because of BS politics) with realy substance unless you go to a private school, or more likely college. There are a FEW really good public school districts, don''t get me wrong. In fact I live right next to one. But... for the most part... from my own observations. Secondary school teachers in Australia are treated more like our professors at college are, rather our highschool teachers. Who are usually dealing with overflowing classes, not enough resources, parents who don''t care about anything other than the bottom line (the Grade, not the education) and a society that doesn''t value their contribution, their time or their education... and pays them nothing for their life''s work. And if you are in a private school, you migh tget paid better, but since the parents are paying your salary, they really expect to ''buy'' their kids grades.


Sorry I pretty much think being a HS teacher in the states is the least respected job. Even our trash collectors (Sanitation Engineers) get more respect. That might be exageratting it, and I might be completely off base. But from what I saw in Australia, the teachers seemed like that had a much better position.


I think it''s great that you want to teach, BTW. It''s sad that our teachers don''t get the respect, time, funding... etc, they deserve.


Not a teacher though, so disregard my post if you want!

Hey Gypsy, thanks for your input - I just thought I would jump forward to your post as it pulls up some very relevant points about the differences between the industry in our respective countries..
I don''t know a ton about the US education system, but from what I have garnered reading from members in this forum and wider information, I agree with you completely about the basic differences in our systems and, by the sounds of it, the treatment and standards for teachers.
That is interesting that you observe that HS teachers from Aust are treated more like college lecturers from the US- that seems very unfair

That is very unfortunate that it is not a generally respected job; here, from my experience it is respectable and fine profession.
For example, a colleague of mine who has her Masters in Psychology (and is very employable) is this year doing her Diploma of Education for secondary teaching - I imagine from what you''re saying this could be viewed as a crazy move in the states?

Of course, it''s not a cakewalk - many of the negatives raised in this thread I think would be universal and I know apply here - such as demanding parents, b*tching and politics in the workplace, extra work time required outside of school hours etc..

But a few key distinctions as I understand them from reading here; it seems payscales are more standardized and possibly higher here...I believe the entry level salary for a secondary teacher is currently 50 - 60k AUD- higher if you take a rural position...
There is always demand for teachers, whenever I check there are many opportunities.
Our system is pretty much an even mix of public and private schools; and I can''t say for sure but it seems our public schools may receive more govt. support generally than in the US?..

Anyways, all of that considered I guess some folks may now think I was silly for asking mostly American teachers about their experiences, lol!
But I don''t think so, any input before I make a large career move is useful and I like getting it from my PS buddies

Cheers again Layla for pointing this out though, I hope it brings some context to those answering my questions..

 

[Deelight]

AJ I work currently for the government so I have a feeling your development plans are similar to ours and they really are there to help you develop I like ours we have meetings monthly to discuss our development and plot career goals

As for your teaching question I haven't and not sure if I plan to finish my teaching degree but I did almost all of it and 2 pracs and community service so I have some idea of the Australian school system.

A lot of teaching is classroom, time and behaviour management and it can be a trying challenge sometimes but if you love your subject areas and are passionate kids respond also just because you study a subject at uni you may not ever teach it


What type/level and subjects do you teach?

High school 8-12

I studied English, History and SOSE but I taught in my pracs English, Geography, SOSE and religion however QLD based curriculum is very interdisciplinary so I liked to draw from other subject areas to teach my core subjects so I drew from Art and Drama to help create understanding . I was told repeatedly I should teach primary or middle school by peers and lectures as I like to teach more through activities and creative means and games .

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?

I did pracs so I was constantly being assessed but in saying that I essentially went in with a full teaching workload from day 1 which is not allowed as your meant to do half but hey what can you do

- Things I loved
Students understanding and getting excited about learning - nothing better then creating an AWESOME and FUN lesson and having students learning and loving it, I hated rote based learning and predominantly ran lessons based on constructivist theory of teaching (I as the facilitator and kids being involved and creating their own learning) Last week of a grade 9 class of snots who I ran a process drama with the kids came up to me the next day with things they went and researched themselves and facts they were excited, this is a class all semester I had issues with – that was an awesome day
- Marking work, I am a sicko but I liked it
- Writing lesson plans - I have some of the most detailed lesson plans my supervising teachers loved them
- The kiddies
- creating my teaching portfolio and also collecting resources
- Planning units

Things I hated
- Some of my supervising teachers and the mind set of what they believe students can achieve - I hate this attitude everyone is capable of great things.
- Doing assessments at uni
- Constrictions of outdated units


(If it's not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?
- Teachers get paid approx starting 50k a year in QLD however in QLD we also have to get S ratings which means after 4 yrs of a degree if you don't get an s1 on your final prac good luck finding a job :/


Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?

- I didn't finish the degree for personal reasons, however now work for the government and love it and plan to move into either a team leader or a trainer role eventually I still love the idea of teaching students but right at this moment my heart is not in it and that is not fair on the people I would teach While doing my prac I found it one of the most amazing experiences ever and planned to become a guidence officer move into middle management - head of department, deputy or principal role with eventually going to work for QSA and write syllabuses , if I ever go back that is my plan .

Good luck in what you decide hope it helps

If you do become a teacher it isn't for the money you really have to love it, it is hard I worked 10hr days by the time I created lessons and still had to do a part time job and full uni workload so it is hard but it was so rewarding I had some crap teachers I didn’t want to be and fantastic teachers who I emulated or tried to.


The best advice I got from one of my teachers is that every day is a new day and a new chance for a new beginning, no matter what happened yesterday today is a clean slate – that’s how I approached students and the way I interacted with them – if they were snots today that’s okay because tomorrow they may be superstar angels, you can't hold grdges as a teacher .

 

[swimmer]

Date: 1/8/2010 12:53:45 AM
Author: Gypsy
Arj... I went to HS with my cousin in Austalia for about a week when I was in highschool, and I gotta tell you, different worlds than our system here. Our teachers aren''t treated (at all) well, in terms of respect at all, by either students or parents and well... you don''t really get a decent edcucation here (because of BS politics) with realy substance unless you go to a private school, or more likely college. There are a FEW really good public school districts, don''t get me wrong. In fact I live right next to one. But... for the most part... from my own observations. Secondary school teachers in Australia are treated more like our professors at college are, rather our highschool teachers. Who are usually dealing with overflowing classes, not enough resources, parents who don''t care about anything other than the bottom line (the Grade, not the education) and a society that doesn''t value their contribution, their time or their education... and pays them nothing for their life''s work. And if you are in a private school, you migh tget paid better, but since the parents are paying your salary, they really expect to ''buy'' their kids grades.


Sorry I pretty much think being a HS teacher in the states is the least respected job. Even our trash collectors (Sanitation Engineers) get more respect. That might be exageratting it, and I might be completely off base. But from what I saw in Australia, the teachers seemed like that had a much better position.


I think it''s great that you want to teach, BTW. It''s sad that our teachers don''t get the respect, time, funding... etc, they deserve.


Not a teacher though, so disregard my post if you want!

AJ, I just have to respond that in any country, school scenarios are going to vary tremendously. I am a high school teacher and administrator in New England, my salary is MUCH higher than anyone else has posted (my district tops out in the 90ks for phd with 12yrs of experience), but even if I was only teaching, the base would be more than 50k for first year teachers, and yes, this is in a public school. To address issues of respect, I have not had a student say anything rude to me in years (well, I am tall and muscular...). I have heard much of what Gypsy is saying from many other teachers before, and I felt that way working in an urban school that was underfunded, but like all other things, it really just depends on where you teach, what the community is like and the dynamics of the school.

My district purchases new textbooks faster than we can donate them to less fortunate schools in southern states. (The irony of taxpayers up north funding failing schools down south with very different politics is not lost on any of us.) We have very high test scores, college acceptance rate is 98% with less than 1% dropping out, in fact my state outperformed every nation but Singapore in mathematics last year. I do not work in a "richy rich" neighborhood because the parents'' demands there can drive a person batty I hear, but a solidly middle class town. Education is a priority that is funded, people take pride in their schools here and teachers are generally respected. Parents are generally almost deferential to teachers'' input and only demanding of more opportunities for their kids to learn. While benefits have declined, I now have to pay 20% of my health insurance rates instead of 10%, having the summer free is lovely. My district pays for all courses I want to take at local universities and have paid for my national board certification, AP cert, and even CPR certification. While I will eventually possibly leave the hs classroom to teach full time at the college level, in my part of the US, that means a huge pay cut and a loss of tenure. I do love working with the university level students, but many are not as advanced as my AP high school students. It is more the slower university pace (not teaching 5 classes a day and no bathroom duty...working photocopiers...longer breaks and much lighter teaching load) that are appealing to me now that I have a baby on the way.

Again, I agree with Gypsy''s post, know that both our posts are valid experiences and that also in AUS you will find huge variations from town to town in pay, treatment/stature/respect of teachers and quality of working experience.

Can you shadow a friend? I agree with the HR poster earlier that urged you to not tell the university folks that you are considering other options...do keep that info in your pocket.

 

[zipzapgirl]

Hi arjunajane,

I think I got off topic on my post and wanted to apologize. i just got ringing warning bells in my head from past experiences and wanted to post the red flag. Guess this is one of the many ways that schools and corporate circles don''t really overlap much.

Best of luck with your search for a career path!

 

[steph72276]

Hi....You''ve had lots of insight from teachers that I would just be repeating if I said, but I just wanted to encourage you to try and observe in some classrooms to get a feel for things if you are able to. I was able to do this in special ed and was offered a job, only we were just moving, so I wasn''t able to take it. It is good to go in and get a bird''s eye view of what you will be doing before you jump into the degree program. I think if more people did this (more than just for a day or so), they would choose other careers because it''s more about just loving the subject matter, it is about being compassionate and patient with children/young adults.

 

[fatafelice]

Date: 1/7/2010 8:01:59 PM
Author: Sabine
I taught high school (ages 15-18, grades 9-11) English for 3 years, and that''s what my degrees are in. I recently stopped to be a SAHM, but I would have quit/changed careers if I hadn''t gotten pregnant.


There were some great parts of teaching, and I did love some of my students and really have a passion for English literature, but I really hated teaching and it''s not for me.


I hated how much time/effort it took to come up with interesting lesson plans, and usually the students didn''t appreciate it. I hated how I knew every other English teacher out there was doing the same thing, but we all work alone and don''t really share ideas or help each other out. And most of all, I hated that I had to deal with students who just did not want to be there and did everything they could to make the classroom a horrible place (and most still felt entitled to a passing grade so they could move on), but I had no support from administration to discipline them in effective ways and they honestly ruined the class for the rest of the students and made it impossible for them to learn.


I have a feeling a lot of the administrative problems would be better at a different school, but overall I felt like the time/effort was not worth it, and then I felt like a guilty failure if I didn''t put in the time/effort.

Sabine, I have been thinking a lot of these same things lately. If I put in the amount of effort required to be a stellar teacher, I resent the time it takes away from the rest of my life. But if I don''t put in that level of effort, I feel tremendous amount of guilt. It is very frustrating. And I also work in an English (well, Language Arts) department that I think could benefit from a lot more collaboration, but no one else seems to want to try it.

 

[fatafelice]

What type/level and subjects do you teach?
Middle school (usually 7th grade) Integrated Language Arts

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching?
I love the kids. I love the way their minds work at that age. I love when I can teach them about the world, not just what we have in our textbooks. I love it when they finally "get it." I love it when I can get them excited (especially about reading). I love to have them look through their writing folders one last time at the end of the year and witness their pride as they realize how far they have come. And, of course, I love the schedule.

I dislike dealing with discipline, but I can handle it. I dislike dealing with crazy parents (who believes a twelve-year-old over a professional adult?!). I dislike how much time I put in outside of my contract requirements. I dislike the lack of professionalism and effort that many of my colleagues display, and the way that it gives the rest of us a bad name. I dislike the fact that my school does not have a solid curriculum, so I have to figure it out all on my own. I dislike the level of support we get from our administration, but I know it could be much worse. And I dislike the attitude towards teachers and education in the area where I work.

I hate grading copious amounts of essays.

Are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work?
I can say yes, absolutely, to this one. I teach in NJ, and teachers are pretty well-compensated here. I have great benefits and job security. I do feel that I work a lot more hours than I am compensated for, but I do that by choice.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what?
I have thought about becoming a reading specialist, or trying to get into gifted and talented education. I have also thought about becoming a guidance counselor. But I am not sure that I am in the education field itself for the long haul, so I don''t know it I will put in the effort to pursue any of those.

Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher?
Just as a teacher? No. But if you have interest in becoming a supervisor or administrator, then yes.

I hope this helps!

 

[Gypsy]

Swimmer I''m so glad you hear that. If I ever have kids, I''m moving out there for their education because it sounds like what HS should be and how teacher''s should be treated. As for Arj... shadowing is a great idea for any career you seek to enter into. You just don''t know until you are there yourself. Best of luck!

 

[hihowareyou]

I''m not sure if my experience will be useful to you but I''ll weigh in anyway. I am one of those statistics. One of the thousands of people who spent 4 years studying at university to be a teacher only to give up in the first year. The reality is very different to the dream. I think I went into teaching for the right reasons, the pay didn''t bother me and I wanted to help, encourage, work with and for young people but I was naive.

What type/level and subjects do you teach? I taught high school maths and science. In my first year I was given mostly grade 9 classes and generally the most difficult groups the school had to offer.

What do you like/love and dislike/hate about teaching? I enjoyed planning lessons and delivering them. I enjoyed seeing success and being thanked by students at the end of the day. I didn''t enjoy staying up until 3 am each night, I didn''t enjoy that the senior staff at the school used beginning teachers as a dumping ground for the classes/kids they didn''t want to deal with, I didn''t enjoy filling out risk assessment forms every time I wanted to use anything that wasn''t water, air or pens in my lessons, I didn''t enjoy the parents who freak out when they kid gets a B instead of an A (when they are 14) and blames you for this injustice. The support that I received from other teachers was nearly non-existent. When I was doing prac work teachers were more than happy to share resources with me, where I was placed no one would share a thing with me and I was expected to create everything myself, from scratch (or bought with my own money) in my own time. Perhaps I was unlucky where I was placed and this isn''t the typical experience of all new teachers but it certainly dulled my spirit.

(If it''s not too personal), are you content with the financial reward you receive for your work? I didn''t enjoy the day that I sat down and calculated that the number of hours that I actually worked well exceeded what I was being paid for and that I was earning less per hour teaching that I was when I was 14 and working at a supermarket. I didn''t mind being underpaid, I went into the profession knowing that teachers are not well paid and that QLD were the worst paid in the country but I didn''t realise how poor it was or how under-appreciated I would feed. At one point I worked in a bubble of federal grant money in what would have been my ultimate teaching job (hands on science all day every day without risk assessment forms all day everyday!) and the low pay didn''t bother me then but unfortunately when grant money dried up it had to end.

Have you made or considered making a career move away from teaching to a different or related field, and if so what? Do you see scope for career progression / movement as a teacher? Yes. I am now studying design with hopes to help the school system from outside the classroom. I really want to get into designing new schools and classrooms. I will always love education but have discovered classroom teaching is not for me.

 

[arjunajane]

Firstly, I wanted to say a huge thankyou to all who have replied - I''m very grateful that I can put a decision like this out there in this forum and get such involved and honest answers. It has been very helpful to read everyone''s different experiences and definitely given me lots of food for thought.


Tuckins Thankyou for your input. I know it will be different to here, but would you mind to tell what extra work/qualifications you will need to move to College teaching?


Thankyou Kimberley for your thoughts - I found your insights valuable as I''ve also considered HR prior to this but discarded the idea. Was your previous 10yrs all in HR? I''m happy for you to hear you are loving what you do, despite having difficulty finding a f/t placement. I hope you find one when you desire, and congrats on the pregnancy!

 

[arjunajane]

Hello Haven, Sorry but can you elaborate on what is K12 ? I am glad for your input, as I was considering English as my minor. Here, if you are doing education post-grad than you choose a major and minor dependent on your undergrad degree - in my case I would like to have English as my minor, and Social Sciences as the major.
Thankyou for answering my questions, I appreciate your input.


Thankyou beecheez for your reply. I''m glad to hear you are very happy with your (relatively) recent career move. I don''t think I could have put up with customer service for 13 years! On your last point - well, I''m not huge on little kids, which I why I would specifically choose secondary and older kids. I find it easier to relate and understand kids in the 13-18 range, the lil ones are outta my realm, lol! So, in that sense I wouldn''t say I *love kids*, but that I do respect them and love the idea of helping them with their education.
Thankyou for answering all my questions

 

[arjunajane]

At this stage I have another question to add, if the teachers wouldn''t mind to answer:

The burden of extra work outside of set hours, in lesson plans, marking and the like seem to be a rather consistent theme of people''s "con''s" list;
in the sense that teachers have the school holiday times also free, have summer free (ie. more holidays/leave in general than other professions), do you feel that this "balances out"?

I guess what I''m asking is, do you feel you get to take advantage of these break periods and does it in a way make up for the extra (unpaid) hours you put in during term/semester?

Thanks in advance

 

[hihowareyou]

I didn't get paid holidays due to my unwillingness to move to a remote area to teach. In order to encourage me to move away from my family, friends and support network for a few years beginning teachers in brisbane basically work contracts that start on one side of the holidays and end a few days before the next set in order to avoid paying us. I saw it happen to friends who were a few years older than me, I saw it happen to other young teachers while I was on prac so I'm not sure why I didn't prepare myself better for it to happen to me.

For me, no I didn't see it as worth the holidays because I wasn't paid for my holidays but I was expected to come back at the end of them ready to start teaching again... i.e. having worked over them. Thankfully at that stage my SO was well paid because otherwise I would have had to do what some friends have done in the past and work a second job on their holidays to get by.


I think the first few years are toughest on holidays as you still need to work a lot more in preparation for things. Once you've been at it for a while and have a good stock of resources I think holidays probably get to be more like holidays.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 1/8/2010 9:52:06 AM
Author: swimmer

Date: 1/8/2010 12:53:45 AM
Author: Gypsy
Arj... I went to HS with my cousin in Austalia for about a week when I was in highschool, and I gotta tell you, different worlds than our system here. Our teachers aren''t treated (at all) well, in terms of respect at all, by either students or parents and well... you don''t really get a decent edcucation here (because of BS politics) with realy substance unless you go to a private school, or more likely college. There are a FEW really good public school districts, don''t get me wrong. In fact I live right next to one. But... for the most part... from my own observations. Secondary school teachers in Australia are treated more like our professors at college are, rather our highschool teachers. Who are usually dealing with overflowing classes, not enough resources, parents who don''t care about anything other than the bottom line (the Grade, not the education) and a society that doesn''t value their contribution, their time or their education... and pays them nothing for their life''s work. And if you are in a private school, you migh tget paid better, but since the parents are paying your salary, they really expect to ''buy'' their kids grades.


Sorry I pretty much think being a HS teacher in the states is the least respected job. Even our trash collectors (Sanitation Engineers) get more respect. That might be exageratting it, and I might be completely off base. But from what I saw in Australia, the teachers seemed like that had a much better position.


I think it''s great that you want to teach, BTW. It''s sad that our teachers don''t get the respect, time, funding... etc, they deserve.


Not a teacher though, so disregard my post if you want!

AJ, I just have to respond that in any country, school scenarios are going to vary tremendously. I am a high school teacher and administrator in New England, my salary is MUCH higher than anyone else has posted (my district tops out in the 90ks for phd with 12yrs of experience), but even if I was only teaching, the base would be more than 50k for first year teachers, and yes, this is in a public school. To address issues of respect, I have not had a student say anything rude to me in years (well, I am tall and muscular...). I have heard much of what Gypsy is saying from many other teachers before, and I felt that way working in an urban school that was underfunded, but like all other things, it really just depends on where you teach, what the community is like and the dynamics of the school.

My district purchases new textbooks faster than we can donate them to less fortunate schools in southern states. (The irony of taxpayers up north funding failing schools down south with very different politics is not lost on any of us.) We have very high test scores, college acceptance rate is 98% with less than 1% dropping out, in fact my state outperformed every nation but Singapore in mathematics last year. I do not work in a ''richy rich'' neighborhood because the parents'' demands there can drive a person batty I hear, but a solidly middle class town. Education is a priority that is funded, people take pride in their schools here and teachers are generally respected. Parents are generally almost deferential to teachers'' input and only demanding of more opportunities for their kids to learn. While benefits have declined, I now have to pay 20% of my health insurance rates instead of 10%, having the summer free is lovely. My district pays for all courses I want to take at local universities and have paid for my national board certification, AP cert, and even CPR certification. While I will eventually possibly leave the hs classroom to teach full time at the college level, in my part of the US, that means a huge pay cut and a loss of tenure. I do love working with the university level students, but many are not as advanced as my AP high school students. It is more the slower university pace (not teaching 5 classes a day and no bathroom duty...working photocopiers...longer breaks and much lighter teaching load) that are appealing to me now that I have a baby on the way.

Again, I agree with Gypsy''s post, know that both our posts are valid experiences and that also in AUS you will find huge variations from town to town in pay, treatment/stature/respect of teachers and quality of working experience.

Can you shadow a friend? I agree with the HR poster earlier that urged you to not tell the university folks that you are considering other options...do keep that info in your pocket.

To Swimmer: Sigh, sigh, and sigh....
To Gypsy: Do you live in my state??

Not a teacher either, but married to a highschool history teacher. One of those "unimportant" subjects way behind math, science, English, and all too often taught by coaches who are near incapable of reading, and who have really heavy brow ridges. Hubs teaches AP American (all AP classes will probably be cut soon for a whole raft of odd reasons) refuses to coach (and in these parts the pressure is great) - he''s a TEACHER thank you very much - and has really sexy Vulcan eyebrows.

 

[beechezz]

Date: 1/9/2010 1:01:20 AM
Author: arjunajane
At this stage I have another question to add, if the teachers wouldn''t mind to answer:

The burden of extra work outside of set hours, in lesson plans, marking and the like seem to be a rather consistent theme of people''s ''con''s'' list;
in the sense that teachers have the school holiday times also free, have summer free (ie. more holidays/leave in general than other professions), do you feel that this ''balances out''?

I guess what I''m asking is, do you feel you get to take advantage of these break periods and does it in a way make up for the extra (unpaid) hours you put in during term/semester?

Thanks in advance

I would say "yes" it all balances out in the end. Of course the first few years are the hardest, and when more time is spent in planning, but as the years go on it gets a little easier. I didn''t tell you this in my last post, but I often thought of quitting/giving up during my first few years because it was very overwhelming. I''m so glad I didn''t because things have gotten so much better. There are still days where I think I can''t do it anymore (teaching special education students with behavior issues can be quite exhausting), and I''ve shed many tears over the years. BUT, I will continue to say that choosing to make the move into teaching was one of the best things I have ever done.