CALLING STRMRDR! Thinking about trading in my asscher ... again ... need feedback!

[vespergirl]

Hi everyone,

As some of you know, my current asscher is a trade-in from the first one we bought. My first stone was 1.64 carats, but only faced up like a 1 carat RB, so we traded up for a 2.20 carat asscher. The thing is, the patterns & light return were really perfect in my first asscher, and in this newer one we got last summer, even though it faces up larger, there is a black "drop zone" box that''s really been bothering me.

The jeweler that we purchased from has a lifetime trade-up policy, and I noticed on their website that they have another asscher that has better numbers that''s around the same price that we paid for the current ring, so it would be just trading in one diamond for another that''s probably just better cut. Do you think it''s worth it for me to look into trading this one? Below are the specs on both stones - let me know what you think ...

Current stone:
GIA - Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 7.20 x 7.10 x 4.94 mm
Carat weight: 2.20 carats
Color grade: H
Clarity grade: VVS2
Total depth: 69.6%
Table size: 65%
Girdle: Medium
Culet: None
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Flourescence: None

Prospective stone:
AGS - Square Emerald Cut
Measurements: 7.20 x 7.09 x 4.86 mm
Carat weight: 2.224 carats
Color grade: H (AGS 2)
Clarity grade: VS2 (AGS 4)
Total depth: 68.5%
Table size: 63.3%
Crown height: 13.5%
Girdle: 1.7% to 3.6% (I don''t know what these numbers mean ...)
Culet: Pointed
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Very Good
Flourescence: Negligible

Also, when they replaced my stone last time, I''m not thrilled with the job they did on the prongs - they look kind of "blobby" to me - so I would be happy to have the prongs fixed if they put in the new stone. What do you think?

 

[vespergirl]

Here''s a picture of the drop so you guys can see what I''m talking about:

 

[chrono]

The numbers look really good on the new stone, including better spread (less depth), smaller table and better symmetry.

As to the real test, I guess you'll need to see the stone's pattern (or a magnified picture of the stone). I can understand your being bothered by the drop style pattern. There's no way to tell if the new stone is a different style by the numbers.

Is the vendor an online vendor? An ASET will help with gauging it's light return/performance.

 

[MWG]

I know that STRMRDR knows her stuff and yes you value and trust her opinion on diamonds.


Just a suggestion...... I would ask Gary or John Quixote for advice as well.

And I see the DROP you are talking about and since you are unhappy with that, then TRADE and be "mind clean."

Can you post pictures of the ones you are looking at withougt revealing the vendor?

Also, I would put both stones on HOLD immediately while you make your decision.


Good Luck and keep us informed.
MWG

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:33:06 AM
Author: MWG
I know that STRMRDR knows her stuff and yes you value and trust her opinion on diamonds.


Just a suggestion...... I would ask Gary or John Quixote for advice as well.

And I see the DROP you are talking about and since you are unhappy with that, then TRADE and be 'mind clean.'

Can you post pictures of the ones you are looking at withougt revealing the vendor?

Also, I would put both stones on HOLD immediately while you make your decision.


Good Luck and keep us informed.
MWG

MWG,
Storm is a guy. I don't think Wife2Be will be too pleased to find out that Storm has been posing as male secretly.

The first stone posted is Vespergirl's own square EC, the same one she posted a picture of showing the drop pattern.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:39:23 AM
Author: Chrono

MWG,
Storm is a guy. I don't think Wife2Be will be too pleased to find out that Storm has been posing as male secretly.

The first stone posted is Vespergirl's own square EC, the same one she posted a picture of showing the drop pattern.

I would agree, you just need to see the new stone for yourself.

 

[vespergirl]

You guys are right - thanks for the feedback. The vendor is a very reputable B&M in the DC area (Mervis). The stone that''s I''m considering upgrading to has been listed on their website for a long time, so I don''t think it''s going anywhere soon, but I was thinking about going to take a look at it in the next couple of days.

I know what you mean about having to see the patterns myself - when I traded up to this stone, i was so busy looking at the spread, I didn''t notice anything else. Plus, the lights in the jewelry store make all the diamonds look great, I never noticed the drop until I got the ring into regular indoor lighting in my house.

I think I''m going to call to go take a look at it - I''ll let you guys know how it turns out.

One more thing - my first stone was a G, and I think I preferred the color. I don''t usually notice the color in this H, but I can see it next to a G. I may also see if they have something, or can get something in, around the same size, good specs, in a G color. I''ll let you guys know how it works out ...

 

[chrono]

In your first post, I saw your original stone was an H, so I guess it's a typo. I know you saw the difference between the two; I take it your comparison was done side by side, with one mounted and the other unmounted. Do you also see the difference when the stones are NOT side by side? How about when under natural light (at the window away from the store lighting)?

I know about the killer jewelry store lighting. Ask them if you can see the stone under different lighting conditions. My B&M store was very accomodating. He allowed me to take stone OUTSIDE the store ALONE. I even went to the back room to see the stone under fluorescent lighting. This should help take away some of the magic halogen light effect.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:53:37 AM
Author: Chrono
In your first post, I saw your original stone was an H, so I guess it''s a typo. I know you saw the difference between the two; I take it your comparison was done side by side, with one mounted and the other unmounted. Do you also see the difference when the stones are NOT side by side? How about when under natural light (at the window away from the store lighting)?

I know about the killer jewelry store lighting. Ask them if you can see the stone under different lighting conditions. My B&M store was very accomodating. He allowed me to take stone OUTSIDE the store ALONE. I even went to the back room to see the stone under fluorescent lighting. This should help take away some of the magic halogen light effect.

Wow. Very nice, and trusting!


Yes, see if they''ll let you take it outside or by the window, under the counters, anywhere that cuts that jewelers lighting.

 

[vespergirl]

Hey Chrono, I know I can''t make this any more confusing but my first, smaller 1.64 stone was a G, that we then traded up for the 2.2 carat H that I''m wearing in the photo ...

So, I just called the jewelry store, and here''s what the consultant told me - she''s happy to show me anything else I want to see, and I have an appointment Monday afternoon. BUT when I told her WHY I wanted to see some different stones, about the black square in my asscher, that I wanted to see some better cut stones, she said that ALL of their diamonds are "ideal cut" (uh, no ... check out the inventory on their website), and that I just need to clean my asscher every day (I do) because step cuts need a daily cleaning to be sparkly. So, I told her that I actually did some research, and while what I have is a very nice stone, I was hoping to find one that didn''t have a black drop zone in the middle. I can''t believe that a jewelry store consultant at "the best place to buy a diamond in Washington" would try to pull a line like that on me - I guess it worked on us last year, but now that I''m armed with Pricescope info, I''m ready to go in there and really find something perfect!

 

[chrono]

A smaller round in G will most likely look whiter than a larger step cut H when side by side. The sparkliness of the round helps mask some of warmth while step cuts show all. Larger sizes also tend to show more body colour. This is normal and expected. If you are happy with the whiteness of your current H, that all is well. If not, maybe backing down to a G is the way to go.

Stick to your guns when you go to the store. You go, girl!

You are much more knowledgeable now and can sift through their sales pitch.

 

[decodelighted]

Are you *sure* you don''t have to "upgrade" $$-wise in order to trade?? At most places you do ... and it''s hard to believe there''s a jeweler that just lets you trade stones at any time ...

But -- if that''s the case ...

Can''t hurt to look. Just make sure you do as suggested & get it in as many lighting environs as possible.

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:41:11 AM
Author: Ellen

Date: 6/15/2007 10:39:23 AM
Author: Chrono

MWG,
Storm is a guy. I don''t think Wife2Be will be too pleased to find out that Storm has been posing as male secretly.

The first stone posted is Vespergirl''s own square EC, the same one she posted a picture of showing the drop pattern.

I would agree, you just need to see the new stone for yourself.

LOL.

 

[strmrdr]

If your not happy with your current stone and find one you like better go for it!!!
From the numbers cant tell you much about the new stone.
See it in person and if you want an opinion get some pictures :}

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:33:06 AM
Author: MWG
I know that STRMRDR knows her stuff and yes you value and trust her opinion on diamonds.


Just a suggestion...... I would ask Gary or John Quixote for advice as well.

And I see the DROP you are talking about and since you are unhappy with that, then TRADE and be ''mind clean.''

Can you post pictures of the ones you are looking at withougt revealing the vendor?

Also, I would put both stones on HOLD immediately while you make your decision.


Good Luck and keep us informed.
MWG

storm looks down yep still a guy :}
no comment on the rest of ya post ya trying to start a war? LOL

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 6/15/2007 12:15:40 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/15/2007 10:33:06 AM
Author: MWG
I know that STRMRDR knows her stuff and yes you value and trust her opinion on diamonds.


Just a suggestion...... I would ask Gary or John Quixote for advice as well.

And I see the DROP you are talking about and since you are unhappy with that, then TRADE and be ''mind clean.''

Can you post pictures of the ones you are looking at withougt revealing the vendor?

Also, I would put both stones on HOLD immediately while you make your decision.


Good Luck and keep us informed.
MWG

storm looks down yep still a guy :}
no comment on the rest of ya post ya trying to start a war? LOL

Heeeeeheeeee. We know you are a guy!

 

[MWG]

His/Her!!??.......whats the difference!!!! Diamonds still cost the same and gas is overpriced!!!! LOL

But on a more serious note, sorry for mishap.....How about name change......MR STRMRDR!!!


Have a Great Day!!

MR. MWG

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 6/15/2007 12:15:40 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 6/15/2007 10:33:06 AM
Author: MWG
I know that STRMRDR knows her stuff and yes you value and trust her opinion on diamonds.


Just a suggestion...... I would ask Gary or John Quixote for advice as well.

And I see the DROP you are talking about and since you are unhappy with that, then TRADE and be ''mind clean.''

Can you post pictures of the ones you are looking at withougt revealing the vendor?

Also, I would put both stones on HOLD immediately while you make your decision.


Good Luck and keep us informed.
MWG

storm looks down yep still a guy :}
no comment on the rest of ya post ya trying to start a war? LOL

Strm doesn''t take kindly to other asscher opinions, but I think I''m safe in offering the opinion that he''s a guy.

 

[vespergirl]

For JohnQuixote and Gary (CutNut) - what do you guys think of the stats on the new stone? Should I assume it''s a better cut because it''s AGS? Also, any tricks while I''m in the jewelry store on how I can tell if the next stone has a dark drop? I couldn''t see it in this stone while I was in there, so I want to know if there''s anything in particular I should be lookiung for in the new stone.

 

[chrono]

Date: 6/15/2007 3:04:02 PM
Author: vespergirl
For JohnQuixote and Gary (CutNut) - what do you guys think of the stats on the new stone? Should I assume it''s a better cut because it''s AGS? Also, any tricks while I''m in the jewelry store on how I can tell if the next stone has a dark drop? I couldn''t see it in this stone while I was in there, so I want to know if there''s anything in particular I should be lookiung for in the new stone.

I don''t think anyone from the trade is allowed to comment on another vendor''s goods - I think this is written in Pricescope''s policy to avoid arguments and unfair bickering between vendors.

 

[vespergirl]

Sorry - I didn''t mean to put anyone on the spot - I didn''t know about the policy, or I definitely wouldn''t have asked the question. I take it back!

This question is for anyone out there, a general question on asscher specs - the AGA grading table says that the depth should be 60 - 65%, but I''ve read that an ideal asscher would have a depth that''s more between 65 - 70%. Which is correct? What should I be looking for? Is a 68% depth OK, or should I hold out for a more shallow stone & bigger spread? If I go 65% or smaller, will I lose brilliance?

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/15/2007 2:03:03 PM
Author: JohnQuixote

Strm doesn't take kindly to other asscher opinions,

Iv chilled out on it as long as the advise is good hence the LOL
But to get Garry, you and I too agree on one asscher that is an event for the record books.
Since this stone will be from a local b&m I think we would all say the same thing go with your eyes and post pics if you want more opinions.
Its all kewl :}

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/15/2007 3:23:36 PM
Author: vespergirl
Sorry - I didn't mean to put anyone on the spot - I didn't know about the policy, or I definitely wouldn't have asked the question. I take it back!

This question is for anyone out there, a general question on asscher specs - the AGA grading table says that the depth should be 60 - 65%, but I've read that an ideal asscher would have a depth that's more between 65 - 70%. Which is correct? What should I be looking for? Is a 68% depth OK, or should I hold out for a more shallow stone & bigger spread? If I go 65% or smaller, will I lose brilliance?

68 depth is average these days and where most of the good ones will be found because that is where the top cutters are cutting them.
Keep the table under 64 or so, depth under 70, high crown, then use your eyes.
Which lab graded it has no impact unless its an ags0 and even then there is too many unknowns on the AGS SE grade for that too mean much.

 

[yellowsparkles]

Date: 6/15/2007 10:24:50 AM
Author: vespergirl
Here''s a picture of the drop so you guys can see what I''m talking about:

RE: the black box drop

You said you didn''t notice this when you bought it. Does anyone know why it is now visible? Is it the angle? The lighting? The OP wearing a black shirt? Really, I am just curious. Is it just the OP has more knowledge now and knows what to look for? Just curious.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/15/2007 4:22:46 PM
Author: yellowsparkles

Date: 6/15/2007 10:24:50 AM
Author: vespergirl
Here''s a picture of the drop so you guys can see what I''m talking about:

RE: the black box drop

You said you didn''t notice this when you bought it. Does anyone know why it is now visible? Is it the angle? The lighting? The OP wearing a black shirt? Really, I am just curious. Is it just the OP has more knowledge now and knows what to look for? Just curious.

Jewelry store lighting isn''t great for seeing patterns.
I actually like the pattern of her current asscher, its a little different but kewl.
But if she don''t like then she needs to find a style she does like.
Something more like a RA style would suit her better by the sounds of it.

Wearing a black shirt does make the patterns stand out more but the biggest thing is the lighting and viewing distance that the consumer can control.
The patterns are caused by the angles the stone was cut too and the lighting/head shadow.

 

[chrono]

Storm,
Are you saying that with an RA, the added steps that make it busier also eliminates the drop (dark) area? I am curious too because I am not a fan of the drop style. It just bothers my mind even though I know it is one of the characteristics of the asscher cut.

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 6/15/2007 4:34:38 PM
Author: Chrono
Storm,
Are you saying that with an RA, the added steps that make it busier also eliminates the drop (dark) area? I am curious too because I am not a fan of the drop style. It just bothers my mind even though I know it is one of the characteristics of the asscher cut.

more optical steps, more busy, less visible dark looking areas(the total area may be the same but its broken up and looks smaller).
The effect can be done with fewer physical steps than the RA.
ie a standard 3/3 asscher with the proper angles can have the same look.

 

[strmrdr]

My personal favorites are the wide steps, less dark than the drops but not busy.
They are hard too find because the angles have too be just right.

 

[vespergirl]

Hi storm! You are correct that my preference would be a Royal asscher, but alas, when we were shopping, we didn''t know where to find one in our area, but more importantly, I didn''t know there would be much of a difference except for price, and i wanted a bigger diamond, which i wouldn''t have gotten if we looked at RAs. Maybe for our 10th anniversary or something

I think the thing that bothers me about this stone is that the distance between the steps is not uniform (some are thinker than others) which is causing the black drop. My first stone was more even steps, and the patterns were great, even though it was a generic asscher.

For yellowsparkles - in certain lighting, like under halogen or flourescent lights, the stone looks great - no dark spots. But in regular indoor or outdoor lighting, you can notice the dark spot. If you look at it head on, you can see it, but if I tilt the stone a couple of degrees, it disappears. I hadn''t considered swapping it earliler because I had a baby a few months ago, and had just been too busy with my family to deal with it, until now. Also, b/c it looks good in certain lighting, it didn''t alqways bother me, but I guess it does enough that I''m still looking at other diamonds

I guess what bugging me most about it is: 1. the dark square and 2. the different widths of the steps.

I''m not sure that I''m going to swap it for the diamond I''m going to see Monday, but I have a feeling that I''m going to keep my eyes open for something more to my liking if this one doesn''t work out.