Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83 OEC?

DecoDaze · Sep 23, 2014

I could really use some input from the wise old cut lovers here at PS. I've been searching for a large OEC on a real budget (but unwilling to deal with the risks of ebay, being a newbie), and this may just fit the bill. Ideally, I want a 9mm+ stone, with chunky facets and good light play, no (bad) obstruction issues, fish eye, nail head, etc. This stone is offered by Erica at LAD (who has been AMAZINGLY helpful and patient with me in answering my million questions!). As she says, it is a bit of a "wild card" with regard to its cut--an unusual later OEC with a small culet--but does not have obstruction, and does have good contrast and light play from edge to edge, with none of the above problems. It is uncerted; she estimates it at 2.83 ct, 9.48mm, cape, VS or SI (100% eye clean). I'm fine with warm and I'm fine with quirky. My budget is $20K or under, and she's offering this for $15,500.

http://loveaffairdiamonds.smugmug.com/Vintage-Rings/283ct-est-Old-European-Cut-Dia/

So, my questions are:
1) What do the old cut experts in the forum think of the stone? The price?

2) She will unmount and discount $500 for the setting. The setting is nice, but not what I had in mind for my dream ring. However, I'm not planning on setting immediately--going to give my pocketbook a chance to recover. Should I have the stone unmounted, maybe set in a temp setting, or leave it as is for wear in the meantime?

Thanks in advance! I've learned so much from these forums, and have much better jewelry as a result!

HappyNewLife · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

not an expert, but it's gorgeous!

what does "Cape" mean? I googled, but couldn't figure it out.

DecoDaze · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

HappyNewLife, it means lower color--like M/N/O/P. That is, the stone is warm! Erica said it goes from "buttery to steely," depending on the lighting.

HappyNewLife · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

ah, gotcha. well, she posted a bazillion photos, and the diamond looks AWESOME in all of them.

diamondseeker2006 · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

I don't think you can buy a temp setting and have it set for much less than $500, so I'd certainly keep the current setting until you decide what you want. I would plan on havign a setting that protects the girdle, though, because many old cuts have very thin girdles that are prone to chipping. I think it looks good for the price!

RandG · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

The facets are just stunning, very playful! It may be my aging eyesight but it reads brownish to me. For a variety of reasons, I would want a recent GIA cert and the price warrants it.

You have an amazing budget to work with. Best of luck to you in your search!

DecoDaze · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

HappyNewLife, thanks! I'm excited to see it in person.

Diamondseeker, thanks for the info about temp setting prices. I've never done one before, but it seems like folks here go through settings like water.

I do want to keep the overall cost down, so I'll probably keep it as is for now.

RandG, thanks! I agree, I love the huge perimeter facets. I'll have to ask Erica whether she sees brown.

Still seeking input, if any other old cut lovers come online!

tyty333 · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

OMG, I think its gorgeous! I would also pay the $500 and keep the setting.

Dreamer_D · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

I think you need to see it in person, it's worth seeing for sure. What is the depth? There is a possibility of some haziness/lazyness in the pavilion mains under the table based on those images. The facets are not as crisp and precise as the ones around the periphery. So I am wondering if its on the shallow side. Whether this is apparent in person will depend on a lot of factors, so you can only know when you see it in person. I like the setting, its well worth the $500 credit.

PS: I would want a lab report or an appraisal from Dave or whoever Erica uses now before proceeding. Can't judge price without more exact specs.

DecoDaze · Sep 23, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Thanks, tyty333! I think I'll do that.

Dreamer, thanks for your feedback. I'll ask Erica about the lab report. She did say that the one drawback of the cut was that the facets under the table are "not super prominent." But she also said it has no leakage. Do you have any sense of what would be a fair price at, say, the low end of the estimate? Say it's 2.75-2.8ct, P, SI2?

ETA: I don't know the depth, but it can't be super deep, can it, if Erica's 2.83 estimate is correct and the spread is 9.48mm? That was one of my concerns, though I don't care if it's shallow as long as it performs well.

I'm definitely taking a look at it in person.

Thanks again, all!

DecoDaze · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Any more thoughts on this stone? Thank you!

luvdajules · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Hi OP, UD has diamonds in color to N. They only had 3 in the larger (2.5-3 ct.) size in M/N colors, the range was $10.5-16.5k or thereabouts. The $16.5k was an M color 3 ct. select premium cut round. Not too much to go on, I'm sorry. Hope others can help on the pricing. You can always offer a little less and see if the consignor agrees.

Tourmaline · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

I would be very surprised if that stone is eye clean. It would, most definitely, not be eye clean for me.

dawnxcui · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

i'm no expert but i'm currently shopping for an antique cut stone too!
the first few pictures in that album had me jumping for joy. what a gorgeous diamond!
however, the last few pictures (including that last video) makes the diamond look SOO dark. and has me a little worried.
let us know how it looks in person!

DecoDaze · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

luvdajules--What's UD? Quick google search---is it ultra diamonds? I'm not sure how the pricing of modern cuts would compare to the old cuts.

Tourmaline--Erica assures me that the little black specks are not visible without a loupe. But I suppose that's something that varies person to person, and by how good their eyesight is! I guess the only thing I can do is see it in person.

dawnxcui--I think those photos are in direct sunlight, and my understanding is that going dark is a common phenomenon in direct sunlight, but I could very well be mistaken. Anyone else have input on that issue?

Thanks so much, everyone, this is helpful!

luvdajules · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Hi OP, UD=Union Diamond, for the sake of gauging price ranges, I think retail mrb can be used to set an idea about old cuts of similar specs. It seems to fit as I've casually looked at pre-loved old cuts on JBG or others. The question is the color, is it M/N or O/P? Let us know when you find out more, so interesting!

DecoDaze · Sep 24, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Ah, got it, luvdajules. Thanks!

DecoDaze · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Update: I got the ring on Wednesday, and.... LOVE! It's amazing. I've tried in vain to capture it in photos, but it really looks different IRL. It is so bright; lots of contrast, light play from edge to edge, no obstruction. The facets are beautifully blocky. It has a lovely warm body color (not brown), and sometimes looks yellow and sometime just slightly warm. It grabs color from the environment like crazy, so it looks lemony yellow in my living room with yellow walls, blue(!) in my bedroom with blue walls, and outside under the trees I get beautiful pastels. It's a real fireball, too--that was one of the biggest contrasts between photos and real life. I don't think my camera liked all the fire; it kept trying to refocus. But the reason, I believe, that it looks dark in direct sunlight photos is because it's exactly the opposite, and throws off light like crazy. It also looks much yellower in photos than it does to my eyes, and I've been unable to capture the facets as they appear to me. I haven't had time to do a tripod photo session; maybe that will help. My toddler can't take his eyes off it! I'm going to wait out the inspection period to make sure I'm still in love with it next week (because I'm type A like that), but I sure can't see myself changing my mind at this point.

ETA: the inclusions are not at all an issue--my vision isn't perfect, but it's not bad, and even when I loupe it to find the inclusions, and then remove the loupe so I know exactly where they are, I can't see them, hard as I try.

RandG · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

It's wonderful and looks so good on your hand! Can't wait for more photos. Congratulations on your amazing find!

Lizabeth · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Beautiful! And I actually like the setting, too.

ericad · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Looks beautiful on you! And I think your pics are terrific! That last one, with the flowers, really captures how the diamond looks in person as far as faceting and light play. It just goes to show that these old cuts do really need to be judged in person, when a trusted (hopefully!) vendor is telling you it's worth seeing - photos and videos rarely do them justice and only tells one small part of the story.

I adore it - so happy you took a chance on it. I love that it's the kind of stone that you will never run across again (such unique faceting), truly one of a kind and you can spot it as yours (if you keep it) from a mile away. A rare and extra special beauty, IMO.

Circe · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

I think it looks FABULOUS - mazel tov!

DecoDaze · Oct 3, 2014

Re: Calling old cut experts! What do you think of this 2.83

Thanks, everyone! It means a lot.

Erica, you are definitely a trusted vendor. My studs are your former studs, did I mention that?

Love them, too! You are also a patient vendor! I appreciate all your help more than you know; it's really helped me feel confident in my purchase.

A few more:

Bright!

Rainbows!

A little Kozibe (see, Erica? It *does* have it! While tilted and magnified, but whatever.

)

Under the trees.