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Calling All Grammarians! The Latin Plural in English?

Haven

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For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?

I ask because I have not yet found a happy medium ( :bigsmile: ) for making decisions about such things in my own writing. Language is constantly evolving, yes, and there are no hard and fast rules here, but I need to find a useful approach and stick with it.

Some of you choose to use fora as the multiple of forum. If you choose to do this, do you always choose to use the Latin (or Greek) plural for Latin (or Greek) words used in English? (Octopodes? Diplomata? Foci?)

I understand that we regularly use the Latin plural for many commonly used words, such as data, media, or hypotheses. What about the words that have not yet garnered regular usage in one form or the other? How do you choose?

While this is unrelated, I imagine anyone reading this thread will enjoy it. I created this for my last button-making frenzy.
301040_2280288681062_1064133266_4390453_848899118_n.jpg

ETA: Thank you for sharing!
ETA2: I am not being pedantic! I'm genuinely curious about these things. ::)
 

galeteia

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Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?

I ask because I have not yet found a happy medium ( :bigsmile: ) for making decisions about such things in my own writing. Language is constantly evolving, yes, and there are no hard and fast rules here, but I need to find a useful approach and stick with it.

Some of you choose to use fora as the multiple of forum. If you choose to do this, do you always choose to use the Latin (or Greek) plural for Latin (or Greek) words used in English? (Octopodes? Diplomata? Foci?)

I understand that we regularly use the Latin plural for many commonly used words, such as data, media, or hypotheses. What about the words that have not yet garnered regular usage in one form or the other? How do you choose?
Oh Haven, I puffy heart you for knowing the plural of Octopus. Every now and then I find myself in an argument with a colleague about it.
 

AGBF

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Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?
You are so silly! The decision is easy! I use the Latin plural for words I know and not for ones I don't! If I don't know a word is Greek or Latin or I don't know how to make the plural in Greek, how could you expect me magically to transform a word into the Latin or Greek plural? Be reasonable! I hope I was helpful.

Your friend,
Deb
 

Haven

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Galateia--I used to call a former colleague "The Octopi Avenger" because she launched an attack on anyone who used octopi. My mother taught me that the plural was octopodes when I was a child, but it wasn't until I befriended a Latin scholar that I learned *why* it is octopodes and not octopi. It's nice to remember that Latin appropriated words from Greek, isn't it? We English speakers aren't the only ones!
 

Haven

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AGBF|1318212866|3036847 said:
Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?
You are so silly! The decision is easy! I use the Latin plural for words I know and not for ones I don't! If I don't know a word is Greek or Latin or I don't know how to make the plural in Greek, how could you expect me magically to transform a word into the Latin or Greek plural? Be reasonable! I hope I was helpful.

Your friend,
Deb
Deb,

Thank you! I was hoping you would join this discussion. And yes, you were very helpful.

Now I have another question for you: Are there any instances in which you know the Latin or Greek plural, yet you choose not to use it?
 

slg47

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Haven|1318213243|3036850 said:
AGBF|1318212866|3036847 said:
Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?
You are so silly! The decision is easy! I use the Latin plural for words I know and not for ones I don't! If I don't know a word is Greek or Latin or I don't know how to make the plural in Greek, how could you expect me magically to transform a word into the Latin or Greek plural? Be reasonable! I hope I was helpful.

Your friend,
Deb
Deb,

Thank you! I was hoping you would join this discussion. And yes, you were very helpful.

Now I have another question for you: Are there any instances in which you know the Latin or Greek plural, yet you choose not to use it?
I am not Deb (obviously) :) but language is meant to communicate through a shared understanding of meaning. It is social. So, if everyone else is using 'forums'...'forums' it is! If everyone else is using 'fora'...'fora' it is!

also I think octopuses is most commonly used? I found this on Wikipedia and thought it was interesting

The term "octopus" is from Greek ὀκτάπους[34][35] (oktapous, "eight-footed"), with traditional plural forms "octopuses" (pronounced /ˈɒktəpʊsɪz/) from English grammar and "octopodes" (pronounced /ɒkˈtɒpədiːz/) from the Greek. Currently, "octopuses" is the most common form in both the US and the UK. The term "octopod" (plural: "octopods" or "octopodes") is taken from the taxonomic order Octopoda but has no classical equivalent. The collective plural "octopus" is usually reserved for animals consumed for food.

As it arose from the incorrect assumption that "octopus" is a Latin form, octopi is an often objectionable[36] hypercorrection. Nonetheless, the supposed Latinate plural remains more common than the original Greek one: The British National Corpus has 29 instances of "octopuses", 11 of "octopi", and 4 of "octopodes".

The Oxford English Dictionary (2008 Draft Revision)[37] lists "octopuses", "octopi", and "octopodes" (in that order), labelling "octopodes" 'rare' and noting that "octopi" derives from the apprehension that octōpus is a second declension Latin noun, though it is not. The book further maintains that if the word were native to Latin, it would be third declension octōpēs (plural: octōpedes) after the pattern of pēs ("foot", plural pedēs).[38] The actual Latin word for octopus and other similar species is polypus, from Greek polýpous (πολύπους, "many-footed"); again, usually the inappropriate plural polypī is used instead of polypodēs.

Fowler's Modern English Usage states that 'the only acceptable plural in English is "octopuses"', that "octopi" is 'misconceived', and "octopodes" 'pedantic'. Chambers 21st Century Dictionary[39] and the Compact Oxford Dictionary[40] list only "octopuses", although the latter notes that "octopodes" is 'still occasionally used'. The descriptivist Merriam-Webster 11th Collegiate Dictionary lists "octopuses" and "octopi" in that order; likewise, Webster's New World College Dictionary lists in order "octopuses", "octopi", and "octopodes".

In modern Greek, the word is χταπόδι (khtapódi; plural: χταπόδια, khtapódia), from Byzantine ὀκταπόδιον (oktapódion) derived from the Classical Greek variant ὀκτάπους (oktápous).
 

Haven

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Hi, slg!

Oh yes, I understand about language and how and why we use it. What I'm really curious about is how *you* use it, and why you make the choices you make when it comes to pluralizing Latin words.

In the case of fora/forums, I don't believe we (society) have yet made a decision on that one. Usage seems split between the Latin plural and the English plural. Hence, my question!
 

galeteia

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slg47|1318213834|3036855 said:
Haven|1318213243|3036850 said:
AGBF|1318212866|3036847 said:
Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?
You are so silly! The decision is easy! I use the Latin plural for words I know and not for ones I don't! If I don't know a word is Greek or Latin or I don't know how to make the plural in Greek, how could you expect me magically to transform a word into the Latin or Greek plural? Be reasonable! I hope I was helpful.

Your friend,
Deb
Deb,

Thank you! I was hoping you would join this discussion. And yes, you were very helpful.

Now I have another question for you: Are there any instances in which you know the Latin or Greek plural, yet you choose not to use it?
I am not Deb (obviously) :) but language is meant to communicate through a shared understanding of meaning. It is social. So, if everyone else is using 'forums'...'forums' it is! If everyone else is using 'fora'...'fora' it is!

also I think octopuses is most commonly used? I found this on Wikipedia and thought it was interesting

The term "octopus" is from Greek ὀκτάπους[34][35] (oktapous, "eight-footed"), with traditional plural forms "octopuses" (pronounced /ˈɒktəpʊsɪz/) from English grammar and "octopodes" (pronounced /ɒkˈtɒpədiːz/) from the Greek. Currently, "octopuses" is the most common form in both the US and the UK. The term "octopod" (plural: "octopods" or "octopodes") is taken from the taxonomic order Octopoda but has no classical equivalent. The collective plural "octopus" is usually reserved for animals consumed for food.

As it arose from the incorrect assumption that "octopus" is a Latin form, octopi is an often objectionable[36] hypercorrection. Nonetheless, the supposed Latinate plural remains more common than the original Greek one: The British National Corpus has 29 instances of "octopuses", 11 of "octopi", and 4 of "octopodes".

The Oxford English Dictionary (2008 Draft Revision)[37] lists "octopuses", "octopi", and "octopodes" (in that order), labelling "octopodes" 'rare' and noting that "octopi" derives from the apprehension that octōpus is a second declension Latin noun, though it is not. The book further maintains that if the word were native to Latin, it would be third declension octōpēs (plural: octōpedes) after the pattern of pēs ("foot", plural pedēs).[38] The actual Latin word for octopus and other similar species is polypus, from Greek polýpous (πολύπους, "many-footed"); again, usually the inappropriate plural polypī is used instead of polypodēs.

Fowler's Modern English Usage states that 'the only acceptable plural in English is "octopuses"', that "octopi" is 'misconceived', and "octopodes" 'pedantic'. Chambers 21st Century Dictionary[39] and the Compact Oxford Dictionary[40] list only "octopuses", although the latter notes that "octopodes" is 'still occasionally used'. The descriptivist Merriam-Webster 11th Collegiate Dictionary lists "octopuses" and "octopi" in that order; likewise, Webster's New World College Dictionary lists in order "octopuses", "octopi", and "octopodes".

In modern Greek, the word is χταπόδι (khtapódi; plural: χταπόδια, khtapódia), from Byzantine ὀκταπόδιον (oktapódion) derived from the Classical Greek variant ὀκτάπους (oktápous).
When I lived in Canada, a friend of mine would have a Fowler party every year on his birthdate. ::) However, she is also fluent in Classical Latin and firmly abides by the third declension tradition when it comes to our tentacled friends.
 

AGBF

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Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
For those who pay attention to such things:
How do you decide when to use the Latin plural for Latin words used in English?

I ask because I have not yet found a happy medium ( :bigsmile: ) for making decisions about such things in my own writing. Language is constantly evolving, yes, and there are no hard and fast rules here, but I need to find a useful approach and stick with it.

Some of you choose to use fora as the multiple of forum. If you choose to do this, do you always choose to use the Latin (or Greek) plural for Latin (or Greek) words used in English? (Octopodes? Diplomata? Foci?)I understand that we regularly use the Latin plural for many commonly used words, such as data, media, or hypotheses. What about the words that have not yet garnered regular usage in one form or the other? How do you choose?

Oh, darn you, Haven...you are being serious. I really hate you for this. This is not a subject into which I want to delve. I believe that grammar should have rules and that the rules should be followed. I know that language evolves and that it is inevitable and, perhaps, even beneficial. I know that it is illegal to shoot professors of linguistics in most of the 50 states. I, however, am not a fan of evolving language. I am fond of Jane Austen and The King James Bible. I never studied Latin in school, but I cringe when someone uses, "alumni" instead of "alumnus". It is, to me, like chalk on a blackboard.

This topic has, therefore, been one with which I have struggled for years. Choosing whether to use, "forums" or, "fora" is one choice I seem to have to make regularly on Pricescope. I have made my peace with using the word, "fora". I also use the word, "indices" as the plural for, "index". There are many other Latin and Greek words used in English, however, are not commonly used in the plural and with which I, therefore, am totally unfamiliar. I do not believe I would strain to make a word that appeared to be Latin, and in the singular, into the plural form just to have it conform to rules of grammar, but perhaps I would if I encountered it.

On the other hand, I was aware the the plural of "octopus" was "octopodes" and I cannot bring myself to say it. Nor can I say, "croci" as the plural of, "crocus"; it just sounds affected to me.

So I may be unable to find a rule governing when to make Greek and Latin words plural that I can use constantly and comfortably.

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

packrat

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Crap, it's not octopi? Will you tell me why it's octopodes? Not that I regularly find myself having conversations about octopus but still..I like to know things.
 

AGBF

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By the way, I wasn't ignoring all the discussion above. I was writing my own posting while all the discussion was taking place. Now that I posted what I wrote, I can see what the rest of you were writing. It's all fascinating. I'll reread and reply!

Deb
:read:
 

AGBF

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packrat|1318214945|3036864 said:
Crap, it's not octopi? Will you tell me why it's octopodes? Not that I regularly find myself having conversations about octopus but still..I like to know things.
Because the origin of the word is Greek, packrat. The "i" ending is Latin. The masculine plural ending in Latin.

Deb
:read:
 

Octavia

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AGBF|1318214931|3036863 said:
I never studied Latin in school, but I cringe when someone uses, "alumni" instead of "alumnus". It is, to me, like chalk on a blackboard.
Deb, this bothers me, too -- but as a graduate of a women's college, it's because I am an alumna and when I'm with my friends, we are alumnae. I get annoyed when people ask me where I'm an "alumni" of, because I neither male nor plural!

Otherwise, I tend to go with popular usage. I'm not fussed about whether it's forums or octopodes as long as people understand what I'm trying to say.
 

Haven

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Oh, Deb! I'm sorry to have caused you stress! I do appreciate your insights, so thank you very much for sharing.

Will you forgive me if I share a song?
When I'm facing writer's block, I have this habit of rewriting the lyrics to popular 90s music. I do this to keep writing, and my rewrites typically focus on reading and/or writing.

I think you may find some solace in "Blame it on Big Jane", to the tune of "Blame it on the Rain".
I don't typically share these lyrics on PS, so this one is for you, Deb!
(Here's a link to the original music, for anyone who isn't a big Milli Vanilli fan. :cheeky:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwrL9MV6jSk)

Blame it on Big Jane

You said you didn’t read her
But you couldn’t say why
You sacrificed some good tomes
Ignoring Sense and Pride

Now you wish that you had tried her
‘Cause you’re shunned from our book club
Fridays won’t be the same
If you’d just read Persuasion
Gotta blame it on something
Gotta blame it on something

Blame it on Big Jane, yeah that would be Ms. Austen
Blame it on her use of words like “sanguine”
Her stories misconstrued
Where’d you get that book review?
Blame it on Big Jane, yeah yeah
You can blame it on Big Jane

Heard the girls’ eyes were all starry
And the men were all strong
But oh, you’re so far from facts
You had poor Jane pegged wrong (oh, ohhh)
If you hadn’t been so blinded (blinded)
You might still have a book group
But you have bones to pick
Who spells “Austen” with an “e”?
Gotta blame it on something
Gotta blame it on something

Blame it on Big Jane (it’s not that you’re forestalling)
Blame it on Marianne (who wants love at first sight?)
So easy to see through
The admiration is undue
Blame it on Big Jane, yeah yeah
Go on and blame it on Big Jane
On characters refined
Society unfair
You got to blame it on something

Blame it on Big Jane (you heard her women are galling)
Take Emma Woodhouse—she’s not exactly forthright
It’s all a ballyhoo
All overrated, says you
Blame it on Big Jane, yeah yeah

You can blame it on Big Jane

Blame it on Big Jane yeah yeah
Blame it on Big Jane yeah yeah

Blame it on Big Jane (you can blame it Big Jane, blame it on Big Jane, blame it on Big Jane, baby)
Blame it on the story lines she did write
Blame it on Big Jane (Blame it, blame it on Big Jane)
It’s all just much ado
Not your fault you eschewed
Blame it on Big Jane, yeah yeah

Gotta blame it on something
You just don’t like her writing

If you blame it on Big Jane, your taste must be appalling
Name another author that inspires such delight
We have to say adieu
No room in book club for you
Disdain for our dear Jane, no way!

- Haven, AKA Brainey for Janey
 

sillyberry

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And
Octavia said:
AGBF|1318214931|3036863 said:
I never studied Latin in school, but I cringe when someone uses, "alumni" instead of "alumnus". It is, to me, like chalk on a blackboard.
Deb, this bothers me, too -- but as a graduate of a women's college, it's because I am an alumna and when I'm with my friends, we are alumnae. I get annoyed when people ask me where I'm an "alumni" of, because I neither male nor plural!

Otherwise, I tend to go with popular usage. I'm not fussed about whether it's forums or octopodes as long as people understand what I'm trying to say.
Octavia, I'm a fellow alumna of a women's college who was just going to make the same point!

I took five years of Latin and was flat-out freaking terrible at it. Somehow when I was 14 I thought taking Latin would make me a better at law school. It didn't. But I digress. I essentially follow Octavia's rule of "understanding is key." And choose the form which sounds (1) more aurally pleasing and (2) less pretentious to my ear. Because any more than that is taxing on my both undersized and overtaxed brain.

sum, es, est
sumus, estis, sunt!
 

Octavia

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sillyberry|1318215922|3036874 said:
And
Octavia said:
AGBF|1318214931|3036863 said:
I never studied Latin in school, but I cringe when someone uses, "alumni" instead of "alumnus". It is, to me, like chalk on a blackboard.
Deb, this bothers me, too -- but as a graduate of a women's college, it's because I am an alumna and when I'm with my friends, we are alumnae. I get annoyed when people ask me where I'm an "alumni" of, because I neither male nor plural!

Otherwise, I tend to go with popular usage. I'm not fussed about whether it's forums or octopodes as long as people understand what I'm trying to say.
Octavia, I'm a fellow alumna of a women's college who was just going to make the same point!

I took five years of Latin and was flat-out freaking terrible at it. Somehow when I was 14 I thought taking Latin would make me a better at law school. It didn't. But I digress. I essentially follow Octavia's rule of "understanding is key." And choose the form which sounds (1) more aurally pleasing and (2) less pretentious to my ear. Because any more than that is taxing on my both undersized and overtaxed brain.

sum, es, est
sumus, estis, sunt!
Sillyberry, did you go to one of the Sibs? I adored my college, it was such an awesome environment.

BTW, I also suffered through Latin on the premise that it would help in law school, but I was probably old enough to know better (I took it freshman and sophomore years of college). If only I'd wasted the time when I was 14 and done something useful with those oh-so-costly credit hours. To be fair, my college has an amazing classics program and my Latin/classics professors were some of my very favorites, but I forgot 99.8% of what I learned as soon as the final exam was turned in.
 

Phoenix

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I puffy heart you for starting this thread, Haven.

I'm learning a lot from it.
 

JulieN

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Foci for sure.

Never had the occasion to use the plural of octopus. One octopus is quite big enough to feed a party of people, and I'll probably never exclaim, "Oh! Look at all the pretty octopodes!"
 

mayerling

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I do all the Greek words properly - obviously. It really bugs me to hear them used incorrectly. For instance, DH constantly mixes up the singular and plural forms of criterion. He'll say things like "the one criteria we need to take into account is...". Having said this, I would say "octopuses" because I consider it to be sufficiently different from the Greek form to follow English grammar (In Greek the second vowel is not an "o"). As for Latin words, even though I know Latin, I very rarely use the pluralisation rules. I do, however, follow subject verb agreement. I wouldn't say, for instance, "the data shows".
 

sba771

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Haven|1318213243|3036850 said:
AGBF|1318212866|3036847 said:
Haven|1318212222|3036836 said:
Deb,

Thank you! I was hoping you would join this discussion. And yes, you were very helpful.

Now I have another question for you: Are there any instances in which you know the Latin or Greek plural, yet you choose not to use it?
Not Deb, but my degree is actually in Ancient Greek and Latin and in normal every day uses I never use the Latin or Greek plural if it is not commonly known. I feel I would be given too many side-eyes.
 

packrat

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AGBF|1318215383|3036868 said:
packrat|1318214945|3036864 said:
Crap, it's not octopi? Will you tell me why it's octopodes? Not that I regularly find myself having conversations about octopus but still..I like to know things.
Because the origin of the word is Greek, packrat. The "i" ending is Latin. The masculine plural ending in Latin.

Deb
:read:
Ohhh ok, thanks Deb!
 

JewelFreak

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I'm weighing in here because I love words & languages. Great question, Haven, one I struggle with too. And haven't come up with a consistent answer.

Where I know it I use the Greek or Latin plural or singular & grind my teeth when others don't. Yeah, criterion, please! The media are, not is. Television is a medium, not a media, aaaack. A phenomenon!!!! On my favorite ghost hunter program they keep seeing a "phenomena" & I want make them write it correctly 100 times after school.

"Croci," however, is too rich for me; if I mentioned my yard was full of croci, 99% of people would warn me not to go out barefoot. Another gripe is when I hear "processes" pronounced "processeeze." That seems to be a particular lawyerly affectation, pretentious.

I LOVE "octopodi!" You do learn something every day -- never heard its genuine plural! Never thought about its being a compound word -- "-pus" being "foot." Of course! Cool.

No straight answer but it's interesting to hear your opinions.

--- Laurie
 

AGBF

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Haven|1318215521|3036871 said:
Will you forgive me if I share a song?
When I'm facing writer's block, I have this habit of rewriting the lyrics to popular 90s music.
Hi, Haven! I read the lyrics last night and thought they were great, but I didn't hear the song until this morning. You did a very clever job in matching the new lyrics to the song. You have promise as a pop song writer...for the literary set!

Deb
:saint:
 

zoebartlett

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I have a question related to this. I took 3 years of Latin in high school and a semester in college, and I *think* I know the answer to this.

Okay, so when you graduate from school, you are an alumnus if you're a guy and you're an alumna if you're a girl, right? The plural is alumnae. It bugs me when people calls them "alums" (for example, "He's an alum from Harvard.") This bugs me. It should be "He's an alumnus from Harvard." or "She's an alumna from Yale." or "They are alumnae from Brown." This is correct, right?


ETA: I should have read the rest of the thread before posting. Apparently, I'm not the only one bothered by this. :bigsmile:
 

AGBF

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Zoe|1318254069|3037024 said:
I have a question related to this. I took 3 years of Latin in high school and a semester in college, and I *think* I know the answer to this.

Okay, so when you graduate from school, you are an alumnus if you're a guy and you're an alumna if you're a girl, right? The plural is alumnae. It bugs me when people calls them "alums" (for example, "He's an alum from Harvard.") This bugs me. It should be "He's an alumnus from Harvard." or "She's an alumna from Yale." or "They are alumnae from Brown." This is correct, right?


ETA: I should have read the rest of the thread before posting. Apparently, I'm not the only one bothered by this. :bigsmile:
They are alumnae from Yale if they are both or all women. If one or more of that group is a man, the whole group becomes alumni.

Deb
:read:
 

soocool

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Reminds me of a song I learned in high school (40 years ago!) to remember how to decline nouns in Latin.

Oh, in Latin there are only 5 declensions.
All the endings you must memorize and say,
"a" is for the nominative
"ae" genetive and dative
"am" accusative
the ablative long "a"

Sorry, I don't remember the rest :oops:

and couldn't find it on youtube either. I guess it was an oldie, but not a goodie...
 

AGBF

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soocool|1318263782|3037097 said:
Reminds me of a song I learned in high school (40 years ago!) to remember how to decline nouns in Latin.

Oh, in Latin there are only 5 declensions.
All the endings you must memorize and say,
"a" is for the nominative
"ae" genetive and dative
"am" accusative
the ablative long "a"

Sorry, I don't remember the rest :oops:

and couldn't find it on youtube either. I guess it was an oldie, but not a goodie...
Here you go!

The Latin Declension Song!

1. Now in Latin there are only five declensions
All the endings you must memorize and say:
“a” is for the NOMIN-A-TIVE. “ae” GENITIVE AND DATIVE
“am” ACCUSATIVE. The ABLATIVE long “a”.

Chorus:
Start with
a-ae-ae-am-a…….then ae – arum – is – as – is
And repeat the first declension every day:
“a” is for the NOMIN-A-TIVE, “ae” GENITIVE and DATIVE
“am” ACCUSATIVE,The ABLATIVE long “a”.

2. Now the second one is very very simple:
us – i – o – um –o…….i – orum – is – os – is
And the neuter starts with bellum – belli – bello – bellum – bello
Plural: a- orum – is -a -is.

Chorus :
Start with:
us-i-o-um-o. Then i – orum – is – os – is.
It is masculine. Remember five apiece.
And the neuter starts with bellum – belli – bello – bellum – bello
Plural a- orum – is –a- is.

3. You will find that when you come to third declension
Nouns’ll end in l….and . . . .r….and….s….and….x
Dux and ducis duci ducem duce…….lucis, luci lucem luce
CONSUL…… IMPERATOR….. MILES…. REX.

Chorus:
Start with:
blank -is -i -em -e. Third declension for today
es – um – ibus – es – ibus. Say it next:
dux and ducis duci ducem duce…. .lucis luci lucem luce.
CONSUL. . . . ..IMPERATOR….. MILES. . . . .REX.

4. One….two….three….and then we come to Fourth Declension
us – us – ui – um – and – u. It’s Just a ball
Plural us – uum. – ibus – us accusative and ibus.
Now we’re ready for the fifth and that is all.

Chorus:
Start with:
es – ei – ei – em – e……then the plural right away:
es and erum ebus, es – ebus……..too
First you SAY IT then you PLAY IT. But be sure you EVERY DAY IT
And with all the five declensions you are through.

5. NOW YOU HAVE TO LEARN YOUR VERBS AND CONJUGATIONS
Present o – as -at and -amus -atis – ant.
The imperfect starts with -abem –abes -abat.Then -abamus
-batis, ending up third plural vocabant.

Chorus:
Start the future
vocabo … .vocabis … and vocabit
Vocabimus, vocabitis, vocabunt.
Start the perfect: with vocavi… .vocavisti. …. and vocavit
Vocavimus.. ..vocavictis, and -erunt.

6. To the perfect stem add: -eram -eras -erat
Then -eramus.,. then -eratis….. then -erant
When you’ve ended the pluperfect——Future Perfect:
-ero -eris -erit –erimus -eritis and erint

Chorus:
Start:
ille, illa, illud…..qui, quae, quod….and hic, haec, hoc
Is and ea id….acer, acris, acre
Ego, mei, mihi, me, me…Tu and tui tibi te te
That’s the end and now it’s time to shout HOORAY!

Deb/AGBF
:read:
 

zoebartlett

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
12,450
AGBF|1318256170|3037039 said:
Zoe|1318254069|3037024 said:
I have a question related to this. I took 3 years of Latin in high school and a semester in college, and I *think* I know the answer to this.

Okay, so when you graduate from school, you are an alumnus if you're a guy and you're an alumna if you're a girl, right? The plural is alumnae. It bugs me when people calls them "alums" (for example, "He's an alum from Harvard.") This bugs me. It should be "He's an alumnus from Harvard." or "She's an alumna from Yale." or "They are alumnae from Brown." This is correct, right?


ETA: I should have read the rest of the thread before posting. Apparently, I'm not the only one bothered by this. :bigsmile:
They are alumnae from Yale if they are both or all women. If one or more of that group is a man, the whole group becomes alumni.

Deb
:read:
Thanks Deb!
 

soocool

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
2,827
AGBF|1318264755|3037106 said:
soocool|1318263782|3037097 said:
Reminds me of a song I learned in high school (40 years ago!) to remember how to decline nouns in Latin.

Oh, in Latin there are only 5 declensions.
All the endings you must memorize and say,
"a" is for the nominative
"ae" genetive and dative
"am" accusative
the ablative long "a"

Sorry, I don't remember the rest :oops:

and couldn't find it on youtube either. I guess it was an oldie, but not a goodie...
Here you go!

The Latin Declension Song!

1. Now in Latin there are only five declensions
All the endings you must memorize and say:
“a” is for the NOMIN-A-TIVE. “ae” GENITIVE AND DATIVE
“am” ACCUSATIVE. The ABLATIVE long “a”.

Chorus:
Start with
a-ae-ae-am-a…….then ae – arum – is – as – is
And repeat the first declension every day:
“a” is for the NOMIN-A-TIVE, “ae” GENITIVE and DATIVE
“am” ACCUSATIVE,The ABLATIVE long “a”.

2. Now the second one is very very simple:
us – i – o – um –o…….i – orum – is – os – is
And the neuter starts with bellum – belli – bello – bellum – bello
Plural: a- orum – is -a -is.

Chorus :
Start with:
us-i-o-um-o. Then i – orum – is – os – is.
It is masculine. Remember five apiece.
And the neuter starts with bellum – belli – bello – bellum – bello
Plural a- orum – is –a- is.

3. You will find that when you come to third declension
Nouns’ll end in l….and . . . .r….and….s….and….x
Dux and ducis duci ducem duce…….lucis, luci lucem luce
CONSUL…… IMPERATOR….. MILES…. REX.

Chorus:
Start with:
blank -is -i -em -e. Third declension for today
es – um – ibus – es – ibus. Say it next:
dux and ducis duci ducem duce…. .lucis luci lucem luce.
CONSUL. . . . ..IMPERATOR….. MILES. . . . .REX.

4. One….two….three….and then we come to Fourth Declension
us – us – ui – um – and – u. It’s Just a ball
Plural us – uum. – ibus – us accusative and ibus.
Now we’re ready for the fifth and that is all.

Chorus:
Start with:
es – ei – ei – em – e……then the plural right away:
es and erum ebus, es – ebus……..too
First you SAY IT then you PLAY IT. But be sure you EVERY DAY IT
And with all the five declensions you are through.

5. NOW YOU HAVE TO LEARN YOUR VERBS AND CONJUGATIONS
Present o – as -at and -amus -atis – ant.
The imperfect starts with -abem –abes -abat.Then -abamus
-batis, ending up third plural vocabant.

Chorus:
Start the future
vocabo … .vocabis … and vocabit
Vocabimus, vocabitis, vocabunt.
Start the perfect: with vocavi… .vocavisti. …. and vocavit
Vocavimus.. ..vocavictis, and -erunt.

6. To the perfect stem add: -eram -eras -erat
Then -eramus.,. then -eratis….. then -erant
When you’ve ended the pluperfect——Future Perfect:
-ero -eris -erit –erimus -eritis and erint

Chorus:
Start:
ille, illa, illud…..qui, quae, quod….and hic, haec, hoc
Is and ea id….acer, acris, acre
Ego, mei, mihi, me, me…Tu and tui tibi te te
That’s the end and now it’s time to shout HOORAY!

Deb/AGBF
:read:
Thanks!!!!! I just called my sister and sang it all to her. She hung up on me. :lol:
 
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