Calling all CPA''s!!

[Scarabnight]

I''m considering switching my degree program to Accountancy. I have many questions and would appreciate any insight my fellow PSers have that are in the profession.

First of all, are you satisfied with your career choice? Can you tell me a little bit about what arena you''re in and what type of work you do/have done?

What education level have you achieved? Did you stop after the BA and seek licensure or did you pursue a Master''s as well? If you got a Master''s, did you get a Master''s in accounting, business, or other? Do you feel the Master''s degree has benefited your career advancement at all? Have you found the employers prefer a Master''s degree or is it strictly CPA license preferred?

Please help!!

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/16/2010 6:56:07 PM
Author:Scarabnight
I'm considering switching my degree program to Accountancy. I have many questions and would appreciate any insight my fellow PSers have that are in the profession.

First of all, are you satisfied with your career choice? Can you tell me a little bit about what arena you're in and what type of work you do/have done?

What education level have you achieved? Did you stop after the BA and seek licensure or did you pursue a Master's as well? If you got a Master's, did you get a Master's in accounting, business, or other? Do you feel the Master's degree has benefited your career advancement at all? Have you found the employers prefer a Master's degree or is it strictly CPA license preferred?

Please help!!

Well, I'm a British Chartered Accountant which I believe is similar to a US CPA. I did my CA qualification with PwC straight from Univ with a BA in Accountancy. I did go back to school after a few years to do my Master degree in Finance because that's the area I'm interested in. Having a Master or an MBA, in addition to the CPA qualification, would definitely help to put you ahead of others.

I would say that you'd have to decide what are your strengths and where your interests lie. You'd have to pick a speciialisation. It's always better to have a specialisation that is in demand, like Forensic Accounting (which is in HUGE demand these days) etc. What do you like doing? Are you in it for the money (nothing wrong with that, that was one of my main motivations)? There are certain specialisations/ branches of CPA's that pay more than others. If you don't mind or rather like travelling, then Auditing is a good choice, but again there are sub-specialisations within Auditing too (such as FA which I mentioned above, which some people may argue is a speciialisation on its own and not a subset of Auditing). The other thing is you don't have to be great at Maths but that would help a lot, esp if you go into External Auditing or Tax. In fact, I'd say that some kind of maths skill is a pre-requisite. You'd have to be very good at report/ business writing too, which most people don't realise. Computing skills and some techical ability would come in handy.

I've liked being an CA and an Auditor/ Forensic Accountant; though it is more stable and less exciting than some other areas like Investment Banking (which admittedly has lost some of its glamour recently). I much prefer being a FA to an Auditor though, but the latter is not for everyone (it can be dangerous). Also, it is a transferrable qualification, at least that's what it is for UK CA's, meaning I can work practically anywhere in the world without having to re-qualify (unlike say lawyers or doctors).

Oh and the other thing is if you can speak a second or third language, that'd help you to further your specilisation and go to work (either on a project or secondment basis) in foreign countri(es). Pay packages for expats or CPA's working abroad can be quite handsome but only if you have experience (the more the better), again are specialised in something that most people are not and speak the language(s) that are not commonly spoken amongst many/ most (?) Americans.

Last but not least, you'd have to like being amongst people, and have better than average people skills. Being an introvert (I don't know what you're like, just speaking generally) would definitely not help. Almost all CPA's (in fact I'd venture to say "all") have to deal with clients as well as staff and peers; and the higher up the ladder you go, the more you'd have to deal with clients and manage staff. In fact, before and after you become a partner, most of your time would be spent getting new clients and keeping existing clients happy. Having techical skills are almost a given for CPA's, but not everyone will become a partner (as that would require an awful lot of networking as well as political skills, not to mention having to spend more of your time at work rather than with your family).

I hope I've helped somewhat. Feel free to ask more Q's. I'll try to answer them where I can.

 

[Phoenix]

I forgot to add that a lot of CA''s/ CPA''s don''t end up staying in Accountancy Firms, but go into industry instead. Some of my ex-colleagues are now working as CFO''s and hold other senior managerial posts in MNC''s. In fact, if you look up CEO''s and other senior directors in MNC''s, you''ll see that several of them have CA/ CPA qualification.

 

[audball]

This info is great Phoenix! My FMIL is a CPA and she thinks it something I''d be great at...I''ve started looking into it. I don''t have a BA in accounting, so I''d have to go back and do a lot of post-bacc work (around 14 classes/42 credit hours) just to qualify for the MAcc program. I think it could be worth it in the end.

 

[Shoopy]

My brother is in the same boat. He doesn't know whether to choose Finance or Accounting. I think he is better suited for Finance but didn't tell him that. I encouraged him instead to get internships in each area. I would encourage you to do the same.

Accounting professors and accounting text books tend to romanticize the accounting profession. The truth is that when you work for a large company, you are hired to do one very specific area of accounting, such as Accounts Receivable for example, and that is all you do. Every day you do the same AR journal entries. Every month/quarter/year end you do the same monthly/quarterly/annual closing entries. Same with Payroll, AP, etc. Very rarely do you get to dabble in a little of AR, a little of Payroll, a little of AP unless you are part of a small company or a rotational program (our company has a rotational program). The more interesting, thought provoking transactions are usually handled by a manager or above as those transactions tend to be higher in value and have to reviewed by a manager and above. Other areas that are a little more interesting are areas like Technical Accounting where you are reviewing accounting policies to ensure they are up to date with the latest accounting guidelines or consolidation and reporting. The other stuff, which is what most accountants are hired for, feels very much like clerk work. And if you work for a major company you sometimes have to work your life around their closing schedule.

I'm an auditor. I do not audit financial statements however as I do not work for an accounting firm. I work for a major corporation and so I audit departments and functions such as Marketing, IT, Operations, Legal, HR, Finance, etc. to ensure they are in accordance with the company's strategic objectives, are working effeciently/effectively, and to provide the audit committee with assurance. I love my job. I have an undergraduate degree in business and majored in accounting. I have an MBA specializing in Finance. I found after stepping into the real world that I am way better suited for Finance than I am for Accounting. Once I'm ready to leave audit, I'll be looking into Global Planning. Meant to add that I was going to go for my CPA but decided against it as I'm taking my career path in another direction.

 

[tyty333]

My good friend is a CPA here in florida. She quit her old job and took a year off. She has been having a hard time
finding anything new. She has had to take a cut in pay. She has a masters degree and has been working as a CPA
for about 20 years.

I did hear/read somewhere that jobs in that area were suspose to be in demand in the near future. Dont know why
she is having a hard time. She is very smart, whitty and just an all around good person.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/17/2010 10:47:40 AM
Author: audball
This info is great Phoenix! My FMIL is a CPA and she thinks it something I''d be great at...I''ve started looking into it. I don''t have a BA in accounting, so I''d have to go back and do a lot of post-bacc work (around 14 classes/42 credit hours) just to qualify for the MAcc program. I think it could be worth it in the end.

You''re very welcome.

Good luck.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/17/2010 11:10:38 AM
Author: fiery
My brother is in the same boat. He doesn't know whether to choose Finance or Accounting. I think he is better suited for Finance but didn't tell him that. I encouraged him instead to get internships in each area. I would encourage you to do the same.

Accounting professors and accounting text books tend to romanticize the accounting profession. The truth is that when you work for a large company, you are hired to do one very specific area of accounting, such as Accounts Receivable for example, and that is all you do. Every day you do the same AR journal entries. Every month/quarter/year end you do the same monthly/quarterly/annual closing entries. Same with Payroll, AP, etc. Very rarely do you get to dabble in a little of AR, a little of Payroll, a little of AP unless you are part of a small company or a rotational program (our company has a rotational program). The more interesting, thought provoking transactions are usually handled by a manager or above as those transactions tend to be higher in value and have to reviewed by a manager and above. Other areas that are a little more interesting are areas like Technical Accounting where you are reviewing accounting policies to ensure they are up to date with the latest accounting guidelines or consolidation and reporting. The other stuff, which is what most accountants are hired for, feels very much like clerk work. And if you work for a major company you sometimes have to work your life around their closing schedule.

I'm an auditor. I do not audit financial statements however as I do not work for an accounting firm. I work for a major corporation and so I audit departments and functions such as Marketing, IT, Operations, Legal, HR, Finance, etc. to ensure they are in accordance with the company's strategic objectives, are working effeciently/effectively, and to provide the audit committee with assurance. I love my job. I have an undergraduate degree in business and majored in accounting. I have an MBA specializing in Finance. I found after stepping into the real world that I am way better suited for Finance than I am for Accounting. Once I'm ready to leave audit, I'll be looking into Global Planning. Meant to add that I was going to go for my CPA but decided against it as I'm taking my career path in another direction.

Hmmm..this might be where UK Chartered Accountants are different from US CPA's. Generally speaking, UK CA's don't do any of this work, unless they choose to take up financial accounting roles after having qualified. And a lot of the mundane work as described woud be done by someone more junior, so things like AR and AP would tend to be done by someone (most probably NOT qualified) and they are supervised by someone higher up, someone with a qualification. Moreover, in the UK, there are other types of accountants, including Management Accountants (that's another qualification) who tend to do the kind of work you've described. One of my nieces tried CA but later switched to Mgt Accounting.

I do agree though that the higher up the ladder the more interesting/ less mundane the work gets. Also, a lot of UK CA's end up, like I mentioned above, as CFO's in MNC's which mean that they'll be in charge of the books as well as the policies etc. They have to do certification these days with regard to the company's financial statements, which can be quite onerous.

To the OP, I've been an Internal Auditor, like Fiery, but for most of my career. Some CA's/ CPA's do this, after they qualify, they go into the Internal Audit department of an MNC or alternatively they can continue to work for an Accountancy Firm but they offer IA outsource services to companies that don't have an IA function or need "co-sourcing" services (meaning they need extra help to be provided for by an external Accountancy Firm). In the UK, as far as I know (I left the UK some 15 years ago - things may have changed since then), I think you're not allowed to work in IA in a company unless and until you've obtained the CA qualification from an Accountancy Firm; however in Singapore, it is allowed. It appears that the US is more flexible too, like Singapore. Put it in other words, the UK CA qualification can only be obtained from working in an Accountancy Firm (not from a company/ MNC); so you'd have to work for an Accountancy Firm for about 3-4 yrs and take your exams within this timeframe (though I think if you don't pass your CA exams within the first 3-4 years, you're allowed to retake them but then again you become timebarred after 5 years, total).

Oh and also, you could incorporate or add on some other specialisation/ qualification within the CA qualification. Like you could do IT Audit, as I mentioned previously, or you could specialise in the Banking/ Securities sector. One of my ex-colleagues obtained a Treasury qualification a few years after having obtained his CA and since then has been working in Treasury department/ function.

 

[rierie26]

Date: 2/17/2010 4:29:12 AM
Author: Phoenix

Date: 2/16/2010 6:56:07 PM
Author:Scarabnight
I''m considering switching my degree program to Accountancy. I have many questions and would appreciate any insight my fellow PSers have that are in the profession.

First of all, are you satisfied with your career choice? Can you tell me a little bit about what arena you''re in and what type of work you do/have done?

What education level have you achieved? Did you stop after the BA and seek licensure or did you pursue a Master''s as well? If you got a Master''s, did you get a Master''s in accounting, business, or other? Do you feel the Master''s degree has benefited your career advancement at all? Have you found the employers prefer a Master''s degree or is it strictly CPA license preferred?

Please help!!

Well, I''m a British Chartered Accountant which I believe is similar to a US CPA. I did my CA qualification with PwC straight from Univ with a BA in Accountancy. I did go back to school after a few years to do my Master degree in Finance because that''s the area I''m interested in. Having a Master or an MBA, in addition to the CPA qualification, would definitely help to put you ahead of others.

I would say that you''d have to decide what are your strengths and where your interests lie. You''d have to pick a speciialisation. It''s always better to have a specialisation that is in demand, like Forensic Accounting (which is in HUGE demand these days) etc. What do you like doing? Are you in it for the money (nothing wrong with that, that was one of my main motivations)? There are certain specialisations/ branches of CPA''s that pay more than others. If you don''t mind or rather like travelling, then Auditing is a good choice, but again there are sub-specialisations within Auditing too (such as FA which I mentioned above, which some people may argue is a speciialisation on its own and not a subset of Auditing). The other thing is you don''t have to be great at Maths but that would help a lot, esp if you go into External Auditing or Tax. In fact, I''d say that some kind of maths skill is a pre-requisite. You''d have to be very good at report/ business writing too, which most people don''t realise. Computing skills and some techical ability would come in handy.

I''ve liked being an CA and an Auditor/ Forensic Accountant; though it is more stable and less exciting than some other areas like Investment Banking (which admittedly has lost some of its glamour recently). I much prefer being a FA to an Auditor though, but the latter is not for everyone (it can be dangerous). Also, it is a transferrable qualification, at least that''s what it is for UK CA''s, meaning I can work practically anywhere in the world without having to re-qualify (unlike say lawyers or doctors).

Oh and the other thing is if you can speak a second or third language, that''d help you to further your specilisation and go to work (either on a project or secondment basis) in foreign countri(es). Pay packages for expats or CPA''s working abroad can be quite handsome but only if you have experience (the more the better), again are specialised in something that most people are not and speak the language(s) that are not commonly spoken amongst many/ most (?) Americans.

Last but not least, you''d have to like being amongst people, and have better than average people skills. Being an introvert (I don''t know what you''re like, just speaking generally) would definitely not help. Almost all CPA''s (in fact I''d venture to say ''all'') have to deal with clients as well as staff and peers; and the higher up the ladder you go, the more you''d have to deal with clients and manage staff. In fact, before and after you become a partner, most of your time would be spent getting new clients and keeping existing clients happy. Having techical skills are almost a given for CPA''s, but not everyone will become a partner (as that would require an awful lot of networking as well as political skills, not to mention having to spend more of your time at work rather than with your family).

I hope I''ve helped somewhat. Feel free to ask more Q''s. I''ll try to answer them where I can.

Yay!

I''m glad someone posted this question! I''m currently in a MAcc program with no experience in Accounting whatsoever. I''m not very happy with the program I''m in, so I''m trying to transfer to a different university. One of the reasons I''m not very happy with the program is that it''s very geared to pushing everyone into Auditing! No one can really give me an indepth answer about other accounting careers after the degree!

Phoenix, would it be possible for you to describe some other career paths you could take with a CPA? If you specialize in something, is it hard to change specializations? And why do you say that Forensic Accounting could be dangerous?

Thanks!

 

[Rose_Dust]

I am a CPA that just started out of college. I got my BA in Accounting and also my Masters in Accounting. Working in public accounting has been eye opening and if I were to do it all over again, so far, I wouldn''t choose the same path.

Not to discourage you, since maybe this field is for you, it certainly is not for me. At first you are at the bottom of the pile, doing all the work that no one else wants to do. I''m sure it gets better if you can stick around long enough (I''m trying my best to do that).

I would consider Fiery''s comment and try internships in both if you''ve got the time. That way you can get a feel for what you''re getting yourself into. Although I did two internships at the firm I currently work for, thought things were great, but now I''m not very happy with my job.

If you have any questions about how things are the first year out after getting your masters, I''m in the middle of it and can answer any questions. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/17/2010 11:47:40 AM
Author: Kitcha
Yay!

I'm glad someone posted this question! I'm currently in a MAcc program with no experience in Accounting whatsoever. I'm not very happy with the program I'm in, so I'm trying to transfer to a different university. One of the reasons I'm not very happy with the program is that it's very geared to pushing everyone into Auditing! No one can really give me an indepth answer about other accounting careers after the degree!

Phoenix, would it be possible for you to describe some other career paths you could take with a CPA? If you specialize in something, is it hard to change specializations? And why do you say that Forensic Accounting could be dangerous?

Thanks!

That's because Auditing (and when they say auditing, they usually mean External Audit which is auditing financial statements) is the main focus, or the main/ traditional income earner of Accountancy Firms (actually, I don't really know why I use caps, LOL).

There are plenty of other specialisations, including Tax, M&A/ Corporate Finance, Insolvency, Advisory (of which IA can be a subset of), Consultancy etc. The categorisation can vary from firm to firm, but generally those are the main speciialisations. I'd say to switch specialisations is not impossible but would be advisable to do it within the first few years, as it'd be very for you to re-start from scratch and most firms would not encourage you to do it. Having said that, people do switch once they realise that one speciialisation may not be the right one for them.

Switching specialisation is different though from branching into something which is more of a natural progression. So for eg. you can "naturally progress" from general auditing to IT audit or to work exclusivly/ mainly for banking clients. But you would generally realise this within the first year or so and if you are good, your managers and partners would generally encourage you to take this direction. There's another progression which is from general auditing (ie. external audit) into IA which I've already talked about and also into Forensic Accounting. You can't really do FA unless and until you've become very familiar/ experienced with auditing the books. FA is also a natural progression from Insolvency.

FA, at least for me personally, is very satisfying and rewarding. It's very challenging intectually. The work varies from job to job. It is not routine and it requires not only techinal expertise but also the ability to think on your feet. It can be dangerous because you're trying to look for evidence of fraud and the fraudster can seek you out and take revenge on you!

FA can also be about asset recovery (ie. after the fact) and not evidence seeking (generally but not always, before / during the fact).

 

[Shoopy]

Date: 2/17/2010 11:29:44 AM
Author: Phoenix

Hmmm..this might be where UK Chartered Accountants are different from US CPA''s. Generally speaking, UK CA''s don''t do any of this work, unless they choose to take up financial accounting roles after having qualified. And a lot of the mundane work as described woud be done by someone more junior, so things like AR and AP would tend to be done by someone (most probably NOT qualified) and they are supervised by someone higher up, someone with a qualification. Moreover, in the UK, there are other types of accountants, including Management Accountants (that''s another qualification) who tend to do the kind of work you''ve described. One of my nieces tried CA but later switched to Mgt Accounting.

Here we have Sr. Analysts who do the work and most have a CPA.

There are some specific areas where it can be interesting. For example, we have a capital accounting department and one Sr. Analyst deals specifically with leases. She has become the lease expert and is pulled into all sorts of meetings to discuss lease classifications. I can see her moving up the ladder quickly because her expertise is appreciated here.

 

[Phoenix]

Date: 2/17/2010 11:52:36 AM
Author: Rose_Dust

I am a CPA that just started out of college. I got my BA in Accounting and also my Masters in Accounting. Working in public accounting has been eye opening and if I were to do it all over again, so far, I wouldn't choose the same path.

Not to discourage you, since maybe this field is for you, it certainly is not for me. At first you are at the bottom of the pile, doing all the work that no one else wants to do. I'm sure it gets better if you can stick around long enough (I'm trying my best to do that).

I would consider Fiery's comment and try internships in both if you've got the time. That way you can get a feel for what you're getting yourself into. Although I did two internships at the firm I currently work for, thought things were great, but now I'm not very happy with my job.

If you have any questions about how things are the first year out after getting your masters, I'm in the middle of it and can answer any questions. Hope this helps a bit.

Yes, the first year is the WORST, but it does get better the higher up the ladder you go, I *promise*. Also, like most professions, there are pros and cons and for me the pros have far outweighed the cons.

I'd also agree with trying internships. However, bear in mind that interns only get to work and therefore see only one or two areas of an accountancy firm. The specialisations and the clients as well as the people you work with can vary tremendously and can therefore greatly affect the work you do and how much or how little you enjoy it.

 

[Phoenix]

Ok, just off the top of my head, here's a summary of some pros and cons. If I think of any more, I'll write again soon (have to go to bed now, it's very late here).

PROS
- money is good and it can get really GREAT, depending on your expertise and competency
- the work, depending on what you choose and your own interests, can be very interesting and challenging
- you get to work in so many different clients and may meet really awesome people
- you get to travel (which some can see as a chore, however)
- you have the freedom to work in so many different countries without having to re-qualify (mind you though, the ICAEW in the UK now *requires* CA's to put in a certain number of hours of continuing post-qualification eduction every year)
- it can be a stepping stone to very senior posts in major MNC's

CONS
- you often have to work long hours (particularly if you're in EA and it's year-end!

)
- it can at times seem not so glamourous (well, some can be, like M&A)
- you have to travel, sometimes to areas that you don't want to go and it can take up so much of your time that you don't have time for your family/ loved ones
- the work can be repetitive and not terribly challenging (but I'd say that you have control over this issue)

 

[Kismet]

I went into public accounting right out of college (back in the dark ages when it was the big eight), skipped audit and went right into the tax department. I stayed in public for five years and then got a job in a corporate tax department and never looked back. You couldn''t pay me enough to go back to public now. It was a lot of hours, which wasn''t so bad really as I was young and we got paid for overtime. The really sucky part about it was that you didn''t have just one boss, you had any number of people who could tell you what to do. Keeping track of your time was pretty tedious as well. On the plus side, you did get to see a lot of issues and industries. From my observation, you really had to be a bit of a bastard to get ahead in public and I just don''t have that in me.

All the basic functions in accounting are cyclical. If you end up doing GL/AR/AP it''s going to be cyclical on a monthly basis. Tax is usually cyclical on a quarterly or yearly basis (unless your company does monthly provisions *shudder*).

 

[joelly]

If you are serious in being an accountant, please don't shy away from getting into public accounting. We call it paying our dues. Yeah you will get those crazy hours, impossible seniors, and no time for you but the rewards of knowledge and experience is great. In other words, you will have better opportunity and better money when you decide to enter private sector.

If public accounting is not your thing, you might do fine starting with private sector but I won't be the good person to advise this because I went public first.

Background: I am a CPA. Went into public right after college and I loved it. I was an auditor for Arthur Andersen back when they are still Big 8. I have a BA and Master in accounting but I do believe that my public experience is the most attractive feature in my resume for most employers. Currently I am working for the private sector. Going into private after public is such an eye opener for me because when I left work, the sun is still out.

Side note: Start study for the CPA exam when you are still a senior in college and sit for it right after you graduate, even before you graduate if you can, don't wait until you graduate or start working. I did this and it was crazy. I mean it is doable but it was crazy.

 

[Scarabnight]

Wow! Thanks everyone for all the information!!

Do you think that it''s worth going for the Master''s and then the CPA certification, or that the Bachelor''s and then the CPA would be plenty? Do you think that the Master''s would make it easier to find jobs, especially in this job market or later on to land promotions?

Everything I''ve done has always been science and/or health related, so this would be a big switch, and I think that that''s why I''m feeling so hesitant about going for it. From what all of you have said, accounting sounds like it could be for me.

Thanks!!!

 

[joelly]

Scarabnight,

Do you like to stare at numbers all day long? Cause thats mostly what we do.

Bachelor and then CPA is good enough, IMO. Try that combo first to find a job then lets see what happen.

I know a forum which only consist of CPAs and CPA to be but I don''t know if I''m allowed to announce that forum name here. I don''t want to get kicked by the admin here. Advise, anyone? I want to let you know about this forum because you''ll get lots of support from the members there to pursue your CPA license. Just a thought.

 

[Scarabnight]

Joelly,

I do love numbers. Math has always been one of my favorite things to do, but in my undergrad I was so focused on the typical doctor''s path that I didn''t debate any other options. Now I wish I had thought of it earlier

but as the saying goes, there''s no use crying over spilled milk

Thanks so much!!