CAD vs Hand Made
- Thread starter JDNJ
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A lot of those rings are cast but maybe hand finished with details (such as engraving or milgrain on the Simon G). They may custom make the head of the ring to fit your stone and cast the shank, for example. But they are not entirely hand forged like Victor Canera, Leon Mege, Steven Kirsch.
I have a Vatche ring and it is very fine quality. Sometimes the cast rings can appear more perfect than totally handmade, depending on who does the handmade ring! I prefer a harder platinum alloy which helps resist scratches and that is something I always request in a ring: 90%platinum/10%iridium or 90%plat/5%ruthenium are the best.
I have a Vatche ring and it is very fine quality. Sometimes the cast rings can appear more perfect than totally handmade, depending on who does the handmade ring! I prefer a harder platinum alloy which helps resist scratches and that is something I always request in a ring: 90%platinum/10%iridium or 90%plat/5%ruthenium are the best.
mandasand
Brilliant_Rock
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I think the difference you see is hand made rings are dripping money. Haha...just kidding. Yes, expensive, but perhaps some are more refined than cast. I think you'll be fine with ERD. Harry Winston style halos are popular and these vendors all do a fine job with the style, so for me, wouldn't spend more for hand forged. That's just my opinion!
A
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From what I understand it is like choosing between a D and an F color. Some people want that added finish.
If you're in ny, eternitybyyoni.com, engagementringsdirect.com, and diamondsbylauren.com will all do it. I haven't seen work put out so I can't endorse any of them but each has taken the time to sit and work with me. The artists like Mege and Kirsch and Canera I think are amazing if you want to she'll out extra and have them guide you more though. But again, I have nothing but good things to say about the proprietors at the first three.
If you're in ny, eternitybyyoni.com, engagementringsdirect.com, and diamondsbylauren.com will all do it. I haven't seen work put out so I can't endorse any of them but each has taken the time to sit and work with me. The artists like Mege and Kirsch and Canera I think are amazing if you want to she'll out extra and have them guide you more though. But again, I have nothing but good things to say about the proprietors at the first three.
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True hand made is more labor intensive, and to get a good artist you will pay much more than for a cast piece. Get a bad artist and you will both pay more and get a lower quality product than a good cast.
Casting can do many things that are exceedingly difficult to do by hand, such as being totally accurate in measurement to tiny increments of measurement whereas there may be minor variations on a well made hand made piece.
Both have their strong points and their weak points and both are important parts of the jewelry world. Which is best depends on both the job you are wanting done and what suits your needs, both design wise and cost wise.
Wink
Casting can do many things that are exceedingly difficult to do by hand, such as being totally accurate in measurement to tiny increments of measurement whereas there may be minor variations on a well made hand made piece.
Both have their strong points and their weak points and both are important parts of the jewelry world. Which is best depends on both the job you are wanting done and what suits your needs, both design wise and cost wise.
Wink
CharmyPoo
Ideal_Rock
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Wink makes any excellent point. Hand made is only as good as the artist .... I have seen real bad hand made pieces. CAD is lower risk as you can see the design in advance but I have also seen really bad cad and bad casting. I am doing a cad project right now and the cad is ok but I have seen a lot better cad work. Fingers crossed fit me ... This was a testing project
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Thank you Blake!
As Wink mentioned, both are important in jewelry work- as is die struck
The analogy about D to F color is not spot on though, IMO.
The reason is that, in general, cast and hand forged use different setting methods meaning there's a more drastic appearance difference than a few shades of color. Plus durability. To figure out which is right for any given person, we need to look at what they want in a ring in terms of design, and cost.
In terms of appearance: I can't speak for others, but I know that in our experience, to get the true "Claw" prongs, they must be made from extruded wire- meaning hand forged. We find a of of folks really want that particular detail.
Another difference is that when you "cut down" the extruded wire- such as is done on a shank- there's no holes drilled through the metal.
Most cast rings have holes drilled where the diamonds are set.
Anyplace you have things that look like wires- "swoopy underwire" type of designs, there will be a lot of detail differences from cast to hand forged. Particularly where wires cross, a casting can never emulate that aspect perfectly- bu it can be cast in a way that will satisfy at least 75% of buyers looking for that popular design.
As a general rule, the difference in cost of labor between the two methods is about 3-4 times more costly hand forged versus cast. That's big.
A broad shank can be cast and finished to an incredibly high level of fit and finish, and durability.
But the smaller shanks....say 1.8-2mm, there's structural considerations. Extruded wire has more integrity by it's nature.
I think it's mistake to automatically assume hand forged is the "better" choice for every buyer. Both methods can produce really durable and beautiful products- each has it's place depending on how discriminating the buyers, budget, and design specifics.
As Wink mentioned, both are important in jewelry work- as is die struck
The analogy about D to F color is not spot on though, IMO.
The reason is that, in general, cast and hand forged use different setting methods meaning there's a more drastic appearance difference than a few shades of color. Plus durability. To figure out which is right for any given person, we need to look at what they want in a ring in terms of design, and cost.
In terms of appearance: I can't speak for others, but I know that in our experience, to get the true "Claw" prongs, they must be made from extruded wire- meaning hand forged. We find a of of folks really want that particular detail.
Another difference is that when you "cut down" the extruded wire- such as is done on a shank- there's no holes drilled through the metal.
Most cast rings have holes drilled where the diamonds are set.
Anyplace you have things that look like wires- "swoopy underwire" type of designs, there will be a lot of detail differences from cast to hand forged. Particularly where wires cross, a casting can never emulate that aspect perfectly- bu it can be cast in a way that will satisfy at least 75% of buyers looking for that popular design.
As a general rule, the difference in cost of labor between the two methods is about 3-4 times more costly hand forged versus cast. That's big.
A broad shank can be cast and finished to an incredibly high level of fit and finish, and durability.
But the smaller shanks....say 1.8-2mm, there's structural considerations. Extruded wire has more integrity by it's nature.
I think it's mistake to automatically assume hand forged is the "better" choice for every buyer. Both methods can produce really durable and beautiful products- each has it's place depending on how discriminating the buyers, budget, and design specifics.
SB621
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se60093|1355840823|3334408 said:
Hand forged means everything is done by hand. Hand forged is an art and only as good as the artist. Your local jewelry might not feel comfortable doing something that complicated by hand and having it come out beautiful. If Leon said he can do it- then I would trust Leon as he has shown on PS time and time again that he can create gorgeous pieces. With that said I'm not a fan of Leon and his personality so I would rather go with VC or SK. Is your ring pave? Have you shopped around to see if any of the PS vendors said it could be hand forged vs. cast? I personally don't think hand forged is always better then CAD/ CAST. It really just depends on the design. Have you started a topic yet? If not then I would and post your inspiration shots.
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What TYPE of piece are you looking for?
Pave? Plain shiny metal? Lots of wirework? Bold and chunky? Super delicate?
Is it a custom design or something the designer has already made - or something similar to something they've already made?
WHAT you are looking for and whether the vendor already has it in his/her portfolio makes a HUGE difference in terms of what vendor & what method of manufacture is going to be a good fit - and the former largely determines the latter.
Pave? Plain shiny metal? Lots of wirework? Bold and chunky? Super delicate?
Is it a custom design or something the designer has already made - or something similar to something they've already made?
WHAT you are looking for and whether the vendor already has it in his/her portfolio makes a HUGE difference in terms of what vendor & what method of manufacture is going to be a good fit - and the former largely determines the latter.
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se60093|1355840823|3334408 said:
HI Se,
Hand forged parts are made from extruded wire. So a hand forged shank will be round- like a wire.
When a wider or different shaped surface ( like a split shank) is called for, a cast or die struck shank can be used with a hand forged top.
Many people will also consider this type of ring as "hand forged" even though parts are cast.
Casting is a complex procedure- and there's MASSIVE differences in quality based on the skill of the bench doing the casting.
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se60093|1355840823|3334408 said:
It depends on the jeweler, it depends on the design, and it depends on how the jeweler interprets the design. Leon does all hand-forging. That's his THING. Some jewelers do all casting. Many jewelers use a combination of techniques depending, well, just depending on how they specifically do things. Most working jewelers don't place a super-high priority on learning/refining their hand-forging skills because there's not a very big market for it and it would be a lot of practice and effort wasted for relatively little payoff when 99% of the market couldn't care less about anything except the lowest quote. The people who do refine their hand-forging skills to that extent usually are in a much higher-end market and really make the exclusivity of hand-forging their niche.
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My advice to consumers that have concerns about this is to ask the manufacturer specifically what manufacturing method is used for what parts.
Personally, I don't believe it's a big issue for consumers because the best shops all have super high quality casting methods.
"Hand made" can be taken to include hand carved wax ( which is cast) as well.
Se- about what your local jeweler told you: there are parts that could conceivably be made using hand forged methods that make a lot more sense ( and may provide better results) to use high quality casting methods.
So a common answer to certain designs is casting.
Having said that- Distracts is correct that the percentage of shops capable of hand forging is limited. So it could be true, or it could be they don't have the capability depending on the design
Personally, I don't believe it's a big issue for consumers because the best shops all have super high quality casting methods.
"Hand made" can be taken to include hand carved wax ( which is cast) as well.
Se- about what your local jeweler told you: there are parts that could conceivably be made using hand forged methods that make a lot more sense ( and may provide better results) to use high quality casting methods.
So a common answer to certain designs is casting.
Having said that- Distracts is correct that the percentage of shops capable of hand forging is limited. So it could be true, or it could be they don't have the capability depending on the design
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