Buying my first diamond ring, need help. Is this rock good?

[castogan]

Hello everyon,
I just found out about this site and I am hoping for some help. So, here is what my girl wants. She wants a 1 carat, D color, SI clarity, round diamond. Unfortunately these are not negociable... I know, I know, there are great diamonds available at lower color rating but she will not have any of it. So, looking around, I guess some of the favorite sites people have been using are Blue Nile, Union Diamond, DirtCheapDiamond (which I guess is now jamesallen?), and Whiteflash. So I did a search for the above specs and found that Union Diamond had the cheapest one (and fits my Graduate Student salary well). Here are the specs for the rock:

Stock Number AB250652
Certificate: GIA
Shape: Round
Cut: Premium
Carat: 1.00
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Regular Price: $4632
Wire Transfer Price: $4497

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 6.31-6.26-3.79
Depth Percentage: 60.3 %
Table Percentage: 60 %
Girdle: M-VTK-FAC
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)


I know that the table is not that great, but the cut is rated premium by Union Diamond. WhiteFlash didn''t give any results at all for the specs I want and DCD price was $5010 for something similar. What do you, the experts, think about this rock? Should I be asking Union Diamond for a Sarin analysis? (not that I know anything about it... haha) Your wisdom on this will be well appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/8/2009 1:26:52 PM
Author:castogan
Hello everyon,
I just found out about this site and I am hoping for some help. So, here is what my girl wants. She wants a 1 carat, D color, SI clarity, round diamond. Unfortunately these are not negociable... I know, I know, there are great diamonds available at lower color rating but she will not have any of it. So, looking around, I guess some of the favorite sites people have been using are Blue Nile, Union Diamond, DirtCheapDiamond (which I guess is now jamesallen?), and Whiteflash. So I did a search for the above specs and found that Union Diamond had the cheapest one (and fits my Graduate Student salary well). Here are the specs for the rock:

Stock Number AB250652
Certificate: GIA
Shape: Round
Cut: Premium
Carat: 1.00
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Regular Price: $4632
Wire Transfer Price: $4497

Diamond Proportions:
Measurements: 6.31-6.26-3.79
Depth Percentage: 60.3 %
Table Percentage: 60 %
Girdle: M-VTK-FAC
Culet: None (Pointed)
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None (Inert)


I know that the table is not that great, but the cut is rated premium by Union Diamond. WhiteFlash didn't give any results at all for the specs I want and DCD price was $5010 for something similar. What do you, the experts, think about this rock? Should I be asking Union Diamond for a Sarin analysis? (not that I know anything about it... haha) Your wisdom on this will be well appreciated. Thanks.

Hi there,

It doesn't appear to be the best cut, but if you can post the crown and pavilion angles, or the GIA report number so we can look them up, that will help please. The table is larger which is not a deal breaker in itself, the very thick girdle can hide weight and is undesirable. Also cut labels such as Premium do not guarantee you a well cut diamond. It is also facing up a bit small for the weight, a 1 carat should measure about 6.5mm, it could be that the girdle is hiding weight.

 

[Todd Gray]

Date: 6/8/2009 1:29:06 PM
Author: Lorelei
It is also facing up a bit small for the weight, a 1 carat should measure about 6.5mm, it could be that the girdle is hiding weight.

Exactly. Please post the crown / pavilion angle measurements, it will provide additional insight... When you obtain those numbers, run the diamond through the HCA available here on Price Scope under the Tools / Cut Advisor link - the HCA is not an absolute indicator of visual performance (because it only takes the average measurements into account) but it is a great tool for weeding out poor performers from those with potential to exhibit exceptional visual performance. Note that optical symmetry must also be taken into account and can only be judged through the use of tools such as the ASET, Ideal Scope and Gems Fantasy Scope and you should request images of the diamond as seen through those scopes from the vendor.

 

[castogan]

Thank you Lorelei and Todd Gray,
I checked out the crown (34.5) and pavilion (38.2) angles and put it into the HCA which said that my girdle is overly think (will not calculate because of it). So, I guess this rock is out. Thank you for your input. That was very helpful in excluding this rock. If you don''t mind, I found 2 more that might be a better gem. Here are their specs:


Measurements: 6.53 - 6.54 x 3.84 mm
Carat Weight: 1.00 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Very Good
Proportions:
Depth: 58.8%
Table: 60%
Crown Angle: 32.0°
Crown Height: 12.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.4°
Pavilion Depth: 42.5%
Star length: 45%
Lower Half: 75%
Girdle: Medium to Thick, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue

HCA Result:
Light Return Very Good
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Excellent
Total Visual Performance 2 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right

USA Cert is selling this one at $4493. I don''t know much about USA Cert except what I read here and it seems fine overall. Of course I would get it appraised by someone else to make sure the stone is good.


The other one is:

Item Number: 1093179
Shape: Round
Carat weight: 1.00
Cut: Premium
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.3%
Table: 54.0%
Crown Angle: 32.5°
Crown Height: 14.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.2°
Pavilion Depth: 42.0%

Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Girdle: Slightly thick to thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Medium blue
Measurements: 6.37*6.39*3.91

HCA result:
Light Return Very Good
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.7 - Excellent within TIC range


This one is through James Allen at $4640.
Does either of these look like it would have good performance? Or should I just fork over some more money and try to get something better? If so, what spec should I focus on the most? Thank you very much.

 

[Lorelei]

Both shallow Castogan, it is likely these will have obstruction issues. This is where shallower proportioned diamonds can visibly darken when you look at them closely due to the viewer's head/ body blocking the light to the diamond. I would keep looking, I have a cheat sheet you can use which will give you some guidelines and Todd has a good tight set of parameters he prefers if he could post those , between them you should be able to find a well cut diamond. Also search between AGS0 cut grade and GIA Excellent, with the latter use the HCA to find the best ones to concentrate on in the first instance.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

As the above implies, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

From expert John Pollard.

With that said, here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).

If you want, maybe we could take a look and suggest some diamonds which might suit you if you give us your max budget?

 

[phoenixgirl]

Are you set on D color? Have you checked out color for yourself in person? I would examine some diamonds in person to see if you can really tell a difference between a D and an F or an H or even a J. Are you picking stones with fluorescence because of a personal preference or because that's what's coming up in your price range? With D color fluorescence isn't usually considered a plus although it doesn't have to be a minus either.

Also, be sure with buying SI stones online that you have a good return policy or a helpful vendor who will evaluate eye-cleanliness beforehand.

I would make cut your priority, not color. If you up your budget to the mid $5k range and drop color a bit, you can get a much better cut 1 carat stone. I guarantee you it will look nicer to the eye than a D stone with a lesser cut. Example: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1193887.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131 or http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1240172.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

 

[Dreamer_D]

What is your budget? Maybe we can help you? If you want a very well cut stone you are unfortunately going to have to sacrifice something: color, size, or increase the budget. Which will it be? Probably no one here will recommend a stone that isn''t decent on cut quality...

 

[castogan]

Thank you everyone for your help. So, the thing with the color is my fiance''s decision. I tried to talk to her about getting something lower, but she seemed very reluctant. (most likely due to the fact that it is what her friends have). My max budget is $5500 (it is not much, but on a Grad Student budget, it is substantial...). As for the fluorecence, I haven''t thought much on it. I am learning form these forums that cut is very important so I have decided to pay more for the cut. I am having a hard time determining how important fluorescence is... As for your suggestions, phoenixgirl, they are a bit out of range for me plus the color issue... , but I appreciate that you took the time to look them up. If you guys don''t mind can you look at another stone for me? And I welcome your suggestions if you don''t mind spending the time. You guys are really great.

Stone number 4:

GIA report
Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.53 - 6.55 x 4.00 mm

Carat Weight: 1.04 carat
Color Grade: D
Clarity Grade: SI1
Cut Grade: Excellent
Proportions:
Depth: 61.2%
Table: 57%
Crown Angle: 34.5°
Crown Height: 15.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium, Faceted (3.5%)
Culet: None
Finish:
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Very Good
Fluorescence: Medium Blue
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown. Surface graining is not shown.

HCA results:
Light Return Excellent
Fire Excellent
Scintillation Excellent
Spread Very Good
Total Visual Performance 1.3 - Excellent within TIC range


This stone is sold by USA Cert for $5280 and is within the range that Lorelei sent me (see above). Thanks.

 

[Lorelei]

Yes this one looks good Cad - check if there are grade setting clouds that they don't impact brilliance at all, get Martin the vendor to have a look if he has access to the diamond and to check it is eyeclean. Fluorescence is personal preference, you might not notice medium blue anyway and sometimes D colour can be discounted because of it. Here is a link which explains further.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/fluor.asp

An Idealscope image would be good if USACerted could provide one.

This link explains IS and ASET

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

 

[castogan]

Thank you everyone for sharing your experience. I decided to go with the last diamond that I proposed above. I contacted Martin at USAcert and he was very helpful. He said he should be able to get the diamond which will be shipped to an independent appraiser near where I live so I can take a look before buying. I guess the only thing now is to look at it to make sure it is eyeclean and that I like how it looks overall. Please know that your help was much appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/9/2009 5:13:19 PM
Author: castogan
Thank you everyone for sharing your experience. I decided to go with the last diamond that I proposed above. I contacted Martin at USAcert and he was very helpful. He said he should be able to get the diamond which will be shipped to an independent appraiser near where I live so I can take a look before buying. I guess the only thing now is to look at it to make sure it is eyeclean and that I like how it looks overall. Please know that your help was much appreciated. Thanks!

Great news! It was our pleasure helping you, I hope it all checks out at the appraiser and you like the diamond. Let us know how you get on and please post pics when you are able

 

[Luckyeshe]

My fiance is a graduate student as well and he purchased my diamond from solomonbrothers.com. I looked up the statistics she wanted and I found round diamond for around $3600. For a better round brilliant where instead of SI1, it''s VS2, the diamond is priced at around $3,900. Also, you won''t have to pay taxes. If you''re interested I''ll give you the contact info of the guy I worked with. Good luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/9/2009 8:51:33 PM
Author: Luckyeshe
My fiance is a graduate student as well and he purchased my diamond from solomonbrothers.com. I looked up the statistics she wanted and I found round diamond for around $3600. For a better round brilliant where instead of SI1, it's VS2, the diamond is priced at around $3,900. Also, you won't have to pay taxes. If you're interested I'll give you the contact info of the guy I worked with. Good luck!

Castogan has already purchased his diamond so I doubt he will be looking anywhere else

. Also VS2 is not ' better' than SI1.

 

[castogan]

Hello everyone,
So, I got the diamond into an independent appraiser and most of the specs checked out. However, the one thing that did not align was the color. The appraiser graded it color E when the GIA reported it as color D. The appraiser said this might be due to the medium fluorescence making it look whiter. The appraised value was $9000 which seems high for a $5300 diamond. Am I getting a good deal on this diamond? I''m not sure what to think about the result of the appraisal... Do I ask for a discount on the diamond because of the color? Do I send it back and try a different diamond? The diamond is the correct one since the GIA number was on the diamond itself and the inclusion characteristics matched up. Any advise here would be much welcome. Thanks.

 

[jet2ks]

One color or clarity grade variance is usually considered acceptable with appraisals. As far as whether to return or keep, only you can answer that question. If you are happy will the stone, keep it. The official GIA color grade (a result of being looked at by multiple graders at GIA) is D and you can honestly report that to your gf.

If the appraiser has caused you to question the stone, it becomes a "mind-clean" issue. You can either find another appraiser for another opinion or return the stone and keep looking. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

 

[stone-cold11]

Ya, 1 grade variance is acceptable, especially at the colorless level.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 6/19/2009 6:08:56 PM
Author: jet2ks
One color or clarity grade variance is usually considered acceptable with appraisals. As far as whether to return or keep, only you can answer that question. If you are happy will the stone, keep it. The official GIA color grade (a result of being looked at by multiple graders at GIA) is D and you can honestly report that to your gf.

If the appraiser has caused you to question the stone, it becomes a ''mind-clean'' issue. You can either find another appraiser for another opinion or return the stone and keep looking. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Ditto