Buying-but do I definitely need a cert?

[PeteyPauls]

Everyone here has been helpful with my last question so here is another. I did a search but couldn''t quite find my answer.

I am working with a jeweler who is a friend of the family. Been in business for about 50 years. I am going in next week to choose a diamond. He did give me an idea of what he has. One was 2.2 Ct''s, H color, VS2. GOod cut, GIA cert. About 18-19,000. He said he had another about the same size, H, VS2-SI1 but without a cert. He said it was completely up to me whether I wanted a cert of not, but he did say he was a licensed gemologist (studied with GIA). He also mentioned that certs are very popular right now with all of the internet sites and some shady vendors out there. Also, that it doesn''t affect the appraisal. This made sense to me, but I wanted to get everyone''s thoughts on this.

The next thing he said, was that the savings could sometimes be up to 3-4000. Now this sounded like a very high to me, which is why I was a little concerned. So, my questions are, should I get one that does have the cert. if I could save this much or should I be leary?

 

[valeria101]

Can you see these stones side by side ?

Let's say the jeweler can only predict what that stone would be officially garded as only up to one grade difference. Even labs do not pretend to be able to re-grade one stone the same repeatedly (haf grade variance is assumed from the start). This definitely justifies the discount, IMO. If the other stone looks more attractive to you, it is worth considering, IMO.

Besides, the jeweler does not say these would have the same grades: between VS2 and SI1 there is some price difference of course.

Actually, you could save at least that much by looking for certified H/SI1 from the start. There must be some more eye clean SI1 (close to VS2 that is, as the jeweler says his stone is) out there.

 

[PeteyPauls]

Yes, I will be able to see these side by side. So it probably is premature for me to ask the question. I just want to know as much as I can before I go. To me it made sense that if the stones were pretty much the same in the 4 C''s and both looked the same, then it would be worth going with the discount. I just didn''t know if there were other main benefits of the cert other than the comfort in a 3rd party grading.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 6/1/2005 5:09:18 PM
Author: PeteyPauls

I just didn't know if there were other main benefits of the cert other than the comfort in a 3rd party grading.

He he... I didn't even think of that one

maybe for resale it makes sense, but then... chances are you would be asked to have a new lab report anyway or have the stone appraised to account for potential wear. I can't think of any other benefit than peace of mind.

If the seller has a return policy, you could have an independent appraisal anyway and for allot less than that price difference and allot faster than sending the second stone for certification.

 

[Dancing Fire]

i would ask him to get a sarin report on both stones,that would able you to get an idea on the cut quality.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 6/1/2005 6:44:30 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i would ask him to get a sarin report on both stones,that would able you to get an idea on the cut quality.

With the diamonds at hand, those numbers would tell the story with less rpecission than any direct observation - including Iscope. That''s probably a bit harder to handle and up to the buyers rather than the seller (like Sarin is), but perhaps better ?

It is no question here to choose between the two (that''s better left to eyesight alone all the time - even among the H&A as is indeed talked about around here) - but seeing if there might be allot better out there.

I have to admit to skepticism about the precission of those numbers - so yes, sure there is a bias to this message

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/1/2005 7:14:00 PM
Author: valeria101

Date: 6/1/2005 6:44:30 PM
Author: Dancing Fire
i would ask him to get a sarin report on both stones,that would able you to get an idea on the cut quality.

With the diamonds at hand, those numbers would tell the story with less rpecission than any direct observation - including Iscope. That''s probably a bit harder to handle and up to the buyers rather than the seller (like Sarin is), but perhaps better ?

It is no question here to choose between the two (that''s better left to eyesight alone all the time - even among the H&A as is indeed talked about around here) - but seeing if there might be allot better out there.

I have to admit to skepticism about the precission of those numbers - so yes, sure there is a bias to this message

Ana
yes,if the buyer has seen enough diamonds and has a pretty good idea what a nice cut diamond would look like.on teh other hand, if this buyer is a first time diamond shopper he/she can stumble into a Zale mall store and look at their $1999 1 ct special

and think it''s a monster ring,even though it''s garbage.we all know that the cut quality has a big impact on the price of a stone,so for me,i would like to know the proportion before laying any money on the table.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If you do consider purchase of the non-certed stone, make the sale contingent upon the diamond appraising out to your satisfaction with the independent appraiser of your choice.

Then you can get a doublecheck on the jeweler''s grading. Don''t tell the appraiser anything and just wait and see what he/she comes up with.

 

[hoorray]

A cert typically costs about $200 and some time, so the savings he is quoting you doesn't add up to me. I'm not hung up on certs. Once you own the stone, if you plan to keep it forever, I don't think they provide a lot of value-add. If you plan to sell or trade it you probably need a cert. When they are useful is in the shopping stage, so that you have an apples to apples way to compare what you are looking at.

If you like the stone, insist on an appraisal period with an unconditional return, and take it to someone independent and skilled. If it comes back as represented, you are good to go. If it doesn't, but you like the stone, then it is a pricing issue. The price difference between a VS2 and SI1 in a 2ctw is substantial (several thousands of dollars from what I remember), so you don't want to pay VS2 price for an SI1 stone, even if the SI1 stones is beautiful. Buy it, but at an SI1 price!

 

[RockDoc]

This is a no-brainer!


Give him a deposit of $ 200.00 or whatever his cost is with shipping and tell him you want an AGS Cert done.

DO THIS BEFORE YOU PAY YOUR MONEY!

Buying a diamond for $3000-4000 less cause it doesn''t have a report... is HOGWASH!

Who in their right mind would give up $3-$ 4K instead of spending $ 200. ?

IF the stone grades what he says, you got a deal, if it doesn''t and he doesn''t refund you the $ 200. ( why do you need a cert that is graded differently than his representation?)...


Don''t lay out the $$$ in advance, only to find out that he won''t refund the money later.

AGS only takes 5 days to complete the grading. GIA takes a lot longer which is why I specified AGS.

Rockdoc

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 6/2/2005 6:57:53 PM
Author: RockDoc

This is a no-brainer!


Give him a deposit of $ 200.00 or whatever his cost is with shipping and tell him you want an AGS Cert done.

DO THIS BEFORE YOU PAY YOUR MONEY!

Buying a diamond for $3000-4000 less cause it doesn''t have a report... is HOGWASH!

Who in their right mind would give up $3-$ 4K instead of spending $ 200. ?

IF the stone grades what he says, you got a deal, if it doesn''t and he doesn''t refund you the $ 200. ( why do you need a cert that is graded differently than his representation?)...


Don''t lay out the $$$ in advance, only to find out that he won''t refund the money later.

AGS only takes 5 days to complete the grading. GIA takes a lot longer which is why I specified AGS.

Rockdoc

yep....Rockdoc is 100% correct, any jeweler tells you this,he''s full of B.S.!!!