Buyer''s Remorse

[tyler20008]

Just recently purchased the following GIA cert diamond through a recommended BM jeweler.

Carat: 2.08
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Cut: VG
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Ex
Fluorescence: None

Table: 59%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown Angle: 34.0
Pavillion Angle: 41.8
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Cutlet: None

Inclusions were really fe w and small (agreed with the jeweler that it was close to some VS2 he had shown me).
Diamond looks gorgeous to my untrained eye. However, the HCA score is only 6.4.

Should I try to return the diamond. Paid $22.5k.

Thanks.

 

[Isabelle]

I am not an expert, but I think with stats like this, you should trust your eyes? Do you like the diamond? Do you think it sparkles inside and outside? It sounds like a great stone. I think color and clarity also matter in a diamond, and you can''t get better than a D. It sounds like a nice diamond. But if you don''t like the way it looks, then perhaps you should return it. If I like a diamond, I am not going to trade it in for something else b/c of a mathematical equation.

 

[ImpatientOne]

Return it! You can do much better online!!!

Check out this stone from Good Old Gold for $$21,681 2.09 SI1 H. It's an AGS0 Ideal Cut Hearts and Arrows.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4273/

 

[purrfectpear]

I would do a search on pricescope for other stones to compare. There is a 2.00 D SI1 at Whiteflash that scored 1.8 on the HCA for $23,764.

 

[Ellen]

Well, I think you could do better.

That''s a really deep pavillion angle, and the table''s just a tad on the large side.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:45:58 PM
Author: Ellen
Well, I think you could do better.

That''s a really deep pavillion angle, and the table''s just a tad on the large side.

Ditto, I would return it and find a diamond with a better cut, it will be well worth it in the long run.

 

[tyler20008]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The jeweler showed me some GIA Excellent cut diamonds before I made my purchase. I have copies of the certs and using the data, they range from 1.8 to 4.4 on the HCA scale.

When I saw them side by side with the one I purchased, they all looked very bright and beautiful. I picked this once because of the better clarity (even though they were all SI1).

What was I not seeing when I was comparing these diamonds. Can most people see the difference or does it take trained eyes or special instruments?

 

[Rhea]

I agree with trying to return it and trying again, if possible. I think that you could find better.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/8/2008 4:12:37 PM
Author: tyler20008
Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The jeweler showed me some GIA Excellent cut diamonds before I made my purchase. I have copies of the certs and using the data, they range from 1.8 to 4.4 on the HCA scale.

When I saw them side by side with the one I purchased, they all looked very bright and beautiful. I picked this once because of the better clarity (even though they were all SI1).

What was I not seeing when I was comparing these diamonds. Can most people see the difference or does it take trained eyes or special instruments?

Almost every diamond, no matter what the cut, will look great under jewelers lights, seriously.

Get them by natural light like a window, then see which seems brighter, is more firey, has good sparkle. You can also put them under the counter, or in a dark corner to see which looks better. They should still look alive, just "quieter".

Also, if they carry AGS0 stones, that would be a bit safer bet.

Another thing, if you can look at some Hearts on Fire to get an idea of what a really well cut stone looks like, that would help too.

 

[swingirl]

For price you are willing to pay and the size you are looking at I would get an AGS0. If you had one to compare you probably would see the difference in the sparkle and H&A pattern. A lot of things look great to an untrained eye. That's why it's nice to be able to see a stone magnified 40x and be able to plug in some numbers that help weed out the duller ones. That doesn't mean your stone is perfect for you but PS opinions are only based on numbers and photos since we can't actually look at your stone. But after purchasing an AGS0 with a a great HCA score and not having seen it in person, I wouldn't buy anything else.

 

[sugarplum]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:45:58 PM
Author: Ellen
Well, I think you could do better.

That''s a really deep pavillion angle, and the table''s just a tad on the large side.

ditto!!! definitely return it if you can and stay away from deep pavillion angles. with the amount you have to spend, you can purchase a nice, big ideal cut stone that will be gorgeous.

 

[niceice]

Date: 4/8/2008 3:27:24 PM
Author:tyler20008
Just recently purchased the following GIA cert diamond through a recommended BM jeweler.

Carat: 2.08
Color: D
Clarity: SI1
Cut: VG
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: Ex
Fluorescence: None
Table: 59%
Depth: 62.3%
Crown Angle: 34.0
Pavillion Angle: 41.8
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None

Well, uh, the crown angle''s not bad

You would do well to look for something a little more like this:

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 - 57%
Crown angle between 34.0 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees, you can get away with 41.0 degrees but I prefer it be a little shallower.
Girdle: thin to slightly thick (that''s okay on this stone too)
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same concept)

 

[strmrdr]

Date: 4/8/2008 8:11:51 PM
Author: niceice


Well, uh, the crown angle''s not bad

You would do well to look for something a little more like this:

Total depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 - 57%
Crown angle between 34.0 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees, you can get away with 41.0 degrees but I prefer it be a little shallower.
Girdle: thin to slightly thick (that''s okay on this stone too)
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same concept)

wow didnt know you were still back in the dark ages!

better watch out Garry is gonna call ya a dino!

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 4/8/2008 4:12:37 PM
Author: tyler20008
Thanks everyone for the feedback.


The jeweler showed me some GIA Excellent cut diamonds before I made my purchase. I have copies of the certs and using the data, they range from 1.8 to 4.4 on the HCA scale.


When I saw them side by side with the one I purchased, they all looked very bright and beautiful. I picked this once because of the better clarity (even though they were all SI1).


What was I not seeing when I was comparing these diamonds. Can most people see the difference or does it take trained eyes or special instruments?

If you could see the flaws in the other diamonds, but not the one you picked, then I can see why you went with this one. Was that the case?

 

[tyler20008]

Yes, I picked that diamond because it was cleaner under the loupe. One diamond that he had (which would score well on HCA) had a black crystal just off the table that I could see under magnification. Another had a cloud on the face that appeared fuzzy.

I purchased the diamond before I discovered this site. It''s strange that some Good cut diamonds rated by GIA would score higher than some Excellent cut-rated ones. I placed on a lot of faith that GIA''s cut ratings would be logically ordered / ranked!

 

[Isabelle]

Date: 4/9/2008 12:22:22 PM
Author: tyler20008
Yes, I picked that diamond because it was cleaner under the loupe. One diamond that he had (which would score well on HCA) had a black crystal just off the table that I could see under magnification. Another had a cloud on the face that appeared fuzzy.


I purchased the diamond before I discovered this site. It''s strange that some Good cut diamonds rated by GIA would score higher than some Excellent cut-rated ones. I placed on a lot of faith that GIA''s cut ratings would be logically ordered / ranked!

Not every diamond expert agrees with the proposition that one ranking system is better than the all the others. GIA is very well respected; they did take a hit with some false reports but those were criminal actions on behalf of some rogue employees, not reflective of the GIA''s inherent grading system. Tiffany &Co. has always used the GIA as the gold standard for diamond grading, and I would feel great about relying on it. If you like the diamond, you should keep it. I think it depends on how much it sparkles. And to your point about the clouds, I wouldn''t take a diamond with a cloud on the face no matter if it even scored a "1" on the HCA scale. I wouldn''t. I think color and clarity matter. If it has a good GIA report and you like the diamond you might find yourself trading it in for one that you like less but that has the mathematical numbers that someone else says you need. I mean, like many people have said before, "USE YOUR EYES". Trust what you see. Jewelry from the consumer''s POV is a visual art. HCA numbers are fine if you cant see the diamond with your own eyes b/c you are buying it online. But you have the diamond right in front of you. You can see for yourself if it looks beautiful.

 

[niceice]

Date: 4/8/2008 8:53:28 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/8/2008 8:11:51 PM

Author: niceice

Well, uh, the crown angle's not bad

You would do well to look for something a little more like this:
Total depth between 59 - 61.8%
Table diameter between 53 - 57%
Crown angle between 34.0 - 34.8 degrees
Pavilion angle between 40.6 - 40.9 degrees, you can get away with 41.0 degrees but I prefer it be a little shallower.
Girdle: thin to slightly thick (that's okay on this stone too)
Culet: GIA none or AGS pointed (same concept)

wow didn't know you were still back in the dark ages!

better watch out Garry is gonna call ya a dino!

No worries, Garry has called me worse

Those guidelines have been solid for as long as I've been selling diamonds. Hey, there may be attractive combinations away from Tolk (I've long said that) but recommending the center range to a newbie keeps his life simple. Sorry but when I see a 41.8 pavilion I know it's going to be outside what *I* consider a home-run. That doesn't mean it's bad - if the CA, LGFs and optical symmetry are kicking it could be an attractive diamond, but I've seen me some diamonds cut that way out of "rough necessity" that were just plain fugly.

Even GIA says 59/41.8/34.0 is VG and you can drive a truck through that window. Not saying it's a bad diamond and the pricing is in-line with comparables in the PS sift... but for people who want to hug their pillow at night safe and sound knowing they have a near-Tolk (the standard for the modern RB whether you're a dinosaur or Buck Rogers) there are other options readily available in this price range.

That said, Isabelle's suggestion to "USE YOUR EYES" is the best suggestion I've seen on this topic thus far.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 4/8/2008 4:30:30 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 4/8/2008 4:12:37 PM
Author: tyler20008
Thanks everyone for the feedback.

The jeweler showed me some GIA Excellent cut diamonds before I made my purchase. I have copies of the certs and using the data, they range from 1.8 to 4.4 on the HCA scale.

When I saw them side by side with the one I purchased, they all looked very bright and beautiful. I picked this once because of the better clarity (even though they were all SI1).

What was I not seeing when I was comparing these diamonds. Can most people see the difference or does it take trained eyes or special instruments?

Almost every diamond, no matter what the cut, will look great under jewelers lights, seriously.

Get them by natural light like a window, then see which seems brighter, is more firey, has good sparkle. You can also put them under the counter, or in a dark corner to see which looks better. They should still look alive, just ''quieter''.

Also, if they carry AGS0 stones, that would be a bit safer bet.

Another thing, if you can look at some Hearts on Fire to get an idea of what a really well cut stone looks like, that would help too.

If you are going to "USE YOUR EYES" then follow Ellen''s advice and take the diamonds into lots of different lighting environments to see if it makes you swoon all the time... lighting has a huuuuge influence on how a diamond looks and it is not an accident that jewelers use the lighting they use! Also compare it to ideal cuts like the Heart of Fire of the AGS0. You may like this stone to best from the ones your saw at your jewelers, but jewelers can cherry pick the ones they use for comparison to nudge you into choosing a particular favored stone. The queston isn''t whether you liked it compared to the 5 that your jeweler chose to show you, but will you always like it when you (or your lady) wear it? I don''t think you can know that unless you compare it to other ideal stones in different lighting environments. If I were spending that much money, I''d want to make sure I was really happy with the product.

DD

 

[Isabelle]

I agree with Dreamer to a point. I think though that it is hard to shop a ton of diamonds before deciding on one. Looking at 5 or 6 and then choosing doesn''t seem totally unreasonable to me. I think taking the diamond into different lighting environments makes good sense. I would qualify that with the observation that ALL diamonds look better in certain types of lighting and worse in others. There isn''t a diamond on the planet that looks equally good no matter what the lighting, just in the same way that no one''s make-up looks as good under industrial lighting than it does in the hair salon.