buy internet diamond & NOT go to appraiser?

[sunkist]

Would you ever buy a diamond from a reputable PS vendor and not take it to an independent appraiser? This is taking insurance matters aside. Do you trust your favorite PS vendor enough to not have to take it to another appraiser?

 

[Kaleigh]

I bought my asscher from GOG and skipped taking it to an appraiser. I had no doubts about the stone what so ever. But I''m probably in the minority.

 

[WinkHPD]

I can not speak for others, but I only have one or two people a year ask me to send a diamond to an appraisor for them. We are happy to do it, just are not asked very often. Our most recent one was because the appraiser was able to show the client two stones to choose from, rather than having to pay for two stones up front to look at.

I think it is a good service to have available and that it adds great comfort to the process for those who wish to have it done.

Wink

 

[Rhapsody]

I ran mine by a jeweler to make sure it matched the cert since I know mistakes do happen sometimes but I didn''t need to have a full appraisal to tell me if I liked it or not. As soon as I opened the package I had no doubts!

 

[jadeleaves]

Hmm the first stones (i bought 3 at once) from GOG were sent to an appraiser, but subsequent stones I purchased from Jon (1.56rb and 2.01ct ec) weren''t sent to an appraiser before I got it.

 

[DiamondExpert]

Rhap - "running it by a jeweler" can be a two edged sword for both buyer and vendor - I once sold an F/IF AGS0 stone to a guy who took it to his local jeweler who told him it was an I/SI1!!...so there are some disgruntled ones out there!

It always pays to send it to an independent!

 

[squawks]

I bought my ring from Blue Nile and funny you should mention the appraisal ordeal - Blue Nile also included an appraiser''s report with the entire package (along witha duplicate copy of it) and the weird thing about it all is that the appraiser valued the diamond/ring at a total of $14,000 when I purchase it for just $7,808!

 

[Carlotta]

I did not take my GOG stone to an appraiser.....I received lots of pictures and reports before I purchased....and the information Jon provides WITH the stone is great!!
My insurance company was impressed!!

 

[kcoursolle]

To me it depends if I care to insure the jewelry or not. I for sure wanted to insure my engagement ring so I absolutely had it appraised. It also gave me peace of mind on my purchase. However, I recently purchased a cheaper product that is probably not worth insuring...I doubt I will get that appraised, it''s not worth it for something only a few hundred dollars total.

 

[Rhapsody]

Date: 5/4/2006 7:02:11 PM
Author: DiamondExpert
Rhap - ''running it by a jeweler'' can be a two edged sword for both buyer and vendor - I once sold an F/IF AGS0 stone to a guy who took it to his local jeweler who told him it was an I/SI1!!...so there are some disgruntled ones out there!

It always pays to send it to an independent!

I mostly just needed someone to stick it under a microscope so I could read the inscrpition since I was having no luck with my loupe. Those things are HARD to see!

And I know there are many disgruntled jewelers out there, and I guess I should have specified I took it to a jeweler who does repair work mostly now, so he had no conflict of interest since he doesn''t sell diamonds (just a few semi mounts). He also does appraisals but I decided to wait and do the full appraisal until after the stone was set since I felt the vendor had already provided all the information I wanted to feel confident about the purchase. I wouldn''t have gone to the local Zales and asked their opinion. I went to someone I had a relationship with and trusted their opinion.

 

[windowshopper]

YES I would --I bought from James Allen a little over a year ago and spent a sizeable amount on a stone. They sent it to the appraiser for me without me spending a penny. I wasted $400 on that appraisal. They told me nothing I didnt know already. I was nervous though fromm being burned years ago buying a stone from a family friends jeweler.......................Thats not to say I wouldnt ever do it but I do think that with most of these guys its unnnecessary

 

[sasquatch]

We didn''t exactly bought off the internet. We went to see Todd at Nice Ice in person and picked a diamond from his limited selection. We never bothered to have the rings appraised.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Most of these vendors probably give enough information for insurance purposes, so an appraisal is not necessary from that standpoint.

I will say that I trusted Wink for his reputation on here, and I did not have the stone appraised that I ordered from him. I did ask a local jeweler if it matched the certification since the cert was many years old. And that was not at all because I didn''t trust Winkl. It was because I expected family or friends to have an attack that we''d buy a diamond on the internet to begin with, and I just wanted to be able to say I had the diamond verified locally! We certainly can know if the price is good since we can compare prices on stones with similar certification. I only want insurance coverage for what we paid and not for some inflated value.

We are getting another diamond to look at in a few days from Dimend Scaasi, and this diamond has a laser inscription, so we should be able to tell if it matches it''s certification (although I am not sure how much magnification is required to do that). I will probably run it by a newly retired local jeweler to look at to be sure it was not damaged when being set, but other than that, I do not intend to get a full appraisal.

I have made mistakes in the past in not getting items appraised, but this particular situation offers some security because these vendors have good reason to keep their reputations in high regard! I definitely wouldn''t order a diamond from just any random online vendor.

 

[mrssalvo]

I would trust a vendor and may skip the full appraisal if the info they provided on the stone was what I wanted for my insurance. i would have it confirmed locally that the stone matched the cert, mistakes do happen.

 

[WinkHPD]

Most vendors will issue a document more properly called a "jewelry evauluation for Insurance" than an appraisal. We know far better than any appraiser what it cost us to make the item and what we would sell it for, but since we are involved in the sale the new thinig is not to call it an appraisal. Your insurance company will accept this document without question.

In my opinion, it is silly to pay the insurance on a $14,000 "appraisal" on an item you can buy for $7000, so I believe that Blue Nile is doing a disservice to their clients with that policy. I did not know they were doing this, and if they do it routinely it will eventually come back and bite them in the bottom when someone finds out how much they have been over paying for insurance.

Wink

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 5/5/2006 1:18:39 PM
Author: Wink
Most vendors will issue a document more properly called a ''jewelry evauluation for Insurance'' than an appraisal. We know far better than any appraiser what it cost us to make the item and what we would sell it for, but since we are involved in the sale the new thinig is not to call it an appraisal. Your insurance company will accept this document without question.

In my opinion, it is silly to pay the insurance on a $14,000 ''appraisal'' on an item you can buy for $7000, so I believe that Blue Nile is doing a disservice to their clients with that policy. I did not know they were doing this, and if they do it routinely it will eventually come back and bite them in the bottom when someone finds out how much they have been over paying for insurance.

Wink

I agree 100% Wink!!!

 

[blodthecat]

What happens if I buy a diamond ring online?

The stone arrives and I am absolutely ''over the bloody moon'' with it. I''m not a diamond expert, but by no means a dummy. It looks fantastic and is within my budget. So just for laughs, before i commit to buy, I have it independantly appraised.

Sadly, the independant appraisal doesn''t concur with the online vendor''s...so what happens next? I still love the ring..and it''s the one I want. So do you go back to the online vendor and discuss whether they will lower the price, or do you walk away from the deal? Do you know what I am getting at here??

I know the spec of my current ering, but quite frankly if someone told me it was SI2 instead of VS2 I still would NOT part with it.

Has this ever happened to anyone????

 

[kenny]

I skipped the appraiser.

I took my diamond directly to the GIA in Carlsbad California.
They verified the stone matched their certificate and gave me a letter stating this.
$70.
Same day turn around.

 

[MissAva]

I think it depends on the size (amount) of the purchase. For a 2k stone spending a couple hundred on a appraisal. But for something more major, or for any engagement ring stone I think I would, just for piece mind. And that is not just for an internet purchase, that would be for a B&M purchase as well.

 

[squawks]

Date: 5/5/2006 1:43:05 PM
Author: kenny
I skipped the appraiser.

I took my diamond directly to the GIA in Carlsbad California.

Hmm, would it be possible to take my AGSL certified stone to GIA in Carlsbad (as I''m in La Jolla) and have them confirm the stone?

Also wondering if the stone *has* to be loose in order for them to do any confirming - my stone has been set already!

 

[denverappraiser]

It will depend entirely on what you want to gain by the appraisal. There are five primary reasons that clients want to get new items appraised:

#1. They want documentation that will be required for insurance purposes.
#2. They want more information than the jeweler either knows or is willing to tell them.
#3. They aren’t sure whether they can trust what the jeweler told them.
#4 Quality control
#5. Confirmation that they got a ‘deal'.

#1 For insurance documentation purposes, the most important element is the description, not the price. A well crafted document from the jeweler is often better for this purpose because the jeweler can weigh and measure stones before they are mounted, they know the exact designs and model numbers of the components that will be required to exact a replacement etc. If the jeweler can’t or won’t do reasonable documentation, you should consider hiring a 3rd party appraiser but otherwise the jeweler supplied paperwork will be fine. It’s worth noting that the insurance companies will accept almost anything, it’s the client requirements that are tough to meet. Read the description and imagine that you were required to replace the piece ENTIRELY based on that description. If it’s sufficiently detailed to include all of the things you counted as valuable when you chose the piece then you’ve got a good description and you don’t need to hire an appraiser.

#2. The good jewelers can do pretty well here too. Many jewelers don’t have access to specialized equipment or training to provide the kind of details that clients sometimes want. Gemprint, BrillianceScope and Sarin reports are examples of things that most jewelers aren’t prepared to provide and that might cause you to seek out an appraiser. If you don’t want these things, or if you find the right deal with someone who provides them then this doesn’t matter. If you really want a Sarin or GemEx report, and you really want to buy the diamond from a dealer who can’t arrange it, the solution may be to use an appraiser.

#3. Most jewelers make statements about things like the weights and grades of various stones, the karatage of metals and similar statements of fact that customers rely on as part of their shopping process. If you have some reason to believe that the dealer is being untruthful about any of these statements, you should consider an appraisal. You should also consider finding a different dealer. The most common concerns are about whether a stone is a diamond at all, whether it is the one described on the lab report or if it's been damaged. There are also concerns about whether stones will meet a particular definition of ideal, light performance topics, durability questions and similar issues that aren’t on the lab reports but that can be important in the shopping process.

#4. Jewelry involves a fair amount of work by different people and the quality of craftsmanship can vary considerably from worker to worker. One of the jobs of the dealer is to choose appropriate workers and supplies for each task and then check their completed work to see if it was done properly. If you’re concerned that this inspection process may not have been done up to your requirements and you aren’t comfortable with your own ability to recognize and describe manufacturing problems, it may be worth hiring an appraiser to inspect the piece. This is very similar to #3 in that it relates to your level of trust in the jeweler. Some fine it easy to trust while others will take the 'trust but verify' approach.

#5. Frankly it amazes me how often clients will ask what would be a reasonable price to expect them to have paid for something in a particular marketplace and then to have them be annoyed when they discover that this is what they paid. They want ‘appraisals’ that say it’s worth double! This process doesn’t even hold up to brief scrutiny, but plenty of appraisers do it and plenty of customers seem to be happy to pay for it. Every PS shopper I’ve worked with already knows where the price should be, they know that these documents are malarkey but somehow people still want them.

Back to the question at hand. Do you need an appraisal on new items? If you absolutely trust the dealer, they can and do gave you all the information you needed to make your decision, and they give you an appropriate report so you can get good value from your insurance policy, no.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[WinkHPD]

Neil,

In my next life I want to write as well as you do. Nicely said!

Wink

 

[sunkist]

These responses are wonderful. Great help! Thank you all!

 

[Richard Sherwood]

If the purchase is a significant amount of money to you, I would recommend having it independently appraised.

It's so much better to know up front everything about your diamond than to be surprised somewhere down the road about something.

Whenever you have human beings involved in a process, there can be mistakes. There can also be a natural human reluctance on the part of vendors to disclose negative information. It's not that they lie, but rather that they fail to point out a negative characteristic, or downplay it's importance, or don't even recognize it's importance.

Even knowing that you're going to have the stone reviewed by a professional third party can make a difference in your purchase. Often just the knowledge that a savvy appraiser with a critical eye is working on your behalf might influence a vendor to offer you only "no problem" stones. It certainly wouldn't hurt to let them know their stone is going to be professionally scrutinized.

Then you've got the whole area of "borderline" stones. Stones which just barely made a certain color grade, or a certain clarity grade. Wouldn't you like to know that the certified "I SI2" you're considering purchasing is a "high I" and "high SI2" versus a "low I" and "low SI2" clarity? Might that make a difference in your purchasing decision, or the price you're willing to pay for the stone?

Then you've got the fluorescence issue. Wouldn't you like to know that the certed stone you're looking at which is designated as having "faint" fluorescence with no color mentioned is actually a "medium" fluorescence of yellow hue? Would you want to know that fact if you were laying out 10 grand for an F color stone?

Then you've got durability concerns. Suppose you've got an "SI" surface breaking feather on the girdle surrounded by a significant strain pattern. A possible accident waiting to happen. Do you really think most vendors are going to say "This is a gorgeous AGS 0 diamond with excellent color and good clarity. The only problem is that it has a surface breaking feather on the girdle with a significant strain pattern surrounding it."

How many of you would buy that stone after hearing those words? How many of you think you would ever hear those "non-sugar coated" words coming out of a vendor's mouth?

It might not be that they're concealing the truth. They just might not know themselves. Some of these vendors have much greater knowledge and much tighter quality control than others. Some call in stones on memo which they possibly don't have time to inspect as closely as something they would be buying outright for inventory. Some drop-ship stones from another source without ever seeing them the stone themselves.

All these examples are not the norm, and I don't want to create paranoia but rather dispel naivety. These "Pricescope vendors" are a great bunch of professionals who are tops in the industry. You are much safer here than in your average diamond district. But every example above (and many more) I have personally encountered.

It doesn't hurt to verify. It's entirely reasonable, practical and responsible. I think many vendors actually prefer that you have an independent appraiser verify their stone, so you will hear confirmation from someone else other than them that the stone is stunning.

 

[mrssalvo]

Richard you bring up some great points and after reading Matatora''s ordeal I can see the value and importance. She never would have known she was shipped a chipped stone if she hadn''t had it shipped directly to you. Lesson for us all, for a few hundred dollars, get the independant appraisal and you could be saving thousands as well has having peice of mind.

 

[february2003bride]

Regarding Blue Nile and their inflated apprasial amounts...

I totally agree that they should not do that. It''s just to make the customer (me) feel like they got a great deal on their purchase and that I saved XXX dollars by purchasing from BN. We took my e-ring to Martin Fuller and of course his apprasial amount was off by several grand from what Blue Nile said their retail and appraised amount was. We called them about it and they stated that each appraiser would give our stone a different value and we should insure it for whichever amount we see fit.
Martin Fuller''s appraisal amount was close to what we paid for (it was actually under what we paid for by a few hundred) and we went with his apprasial over Blue Nile''s for our insurance.

Blue Nile''s appraisal sheet is just "feel good" PR.

That being said- I still love my BN set

Carrie

 

[MissAva]

Richard did a fantastic job, I am a customer for life. Having all the additional information can also be beneficial should, God forbid, something ever happen to your ring. The more information you have on file with your insurance agent the better your replacement will be, and it streamlines everything

 

[Modified Brilliant]

Date: 5/5/2006 10:27:10 PM
Author: february2003bride
Regarding Blue Nile and their inflated apprasial amounts...

I totally agree that they should not do that. It''s just to make the customer (me) feel like they got a great deal on their purchase and that I saved XXX dollars by purchasing from BN. We took my e-ring to Martin Fuller and of course his apprasial amount was off by several grand from what Blue Nile said their retail and appraised amount was. We called them about it and they stated that each appraiser would give our stone a different value and we should insure it for whichever amount we see fit.
Martin Fuller''s appraisal amount was close to what we paid for (it was actually under what we paid for by a few hundred) and we went with his apprasial over Blue Nile''s for our insurance.

Blue Nile''s appraisal sheet is just ''feel good'' PR.

That being said- I still love my BN set

Carrie

For the first time (this week) I actually saw and agreed with a Blue Nile appraisal retail replacement value. I''m still not convinced that this will be the case for future BN consumers. Getting an independent appraisal still makes alot of sense and puts things in perspective.

www.metrojewelryappraisers.com