Burnt diamond?

[Babyblue033]

Some of you know, I recently bought a second hand 5 stone ring. When I got it I noticed that the center stone was dirty and looked hazy. Figured it just needed a good scrub, but after 2 long soaks in dishsoap and hot water, then a scrub with a toothbrush, the diamond still looked hazy. Today I brought it to a local jeweler for an ultrasonic bath and it still did not clear it up. Now I'm worried.

A quick search turned up a few threads on burnt diamond and the picture look similar to what my stone looks like. Basically like there is a film over it, or water marks. You can see a little in the close up photo, but it's more noticeable in real life because it's a noticeable contrast to clear and sharp side stones.

Ring was resized by the seller right before she shipped it. Could the jeweler have caused this during resizing? Can it be corrected? Remove the stone and polish it?


Here you can see the overall haziness this is causing.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

What did the local jeweler tell you after he cleaned it?
It is possible that it is superficial. Sometimes ultrasonic is not enough. But it is also possible the haziness is the result of some clarity characteristic (s).

 

[Bron357]

A diamond can’t be “burnt as such, the temperatures underground that they are created in is vastly higher than a jewellers torch. Possibly an oxidation residue from the heating / melting the gold during resizing?
I think it’s more likely that it’s within the diamond, ie a colour / clarity issue. Have you got photos of the ring from the sellers site to compare with?

 

[soxfan]

Is there a cert for the stones? Was it a PS'er who sold it to you?

 

[Matthews1127]

Is there a cert for the stones? Was it a PS'er who sold it to you?

Original Thread:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-to-me-graduated-5-stone-band.241718/

 

[Bron357]

That is definitely not the same as it was in the earlier photos.
Oh no. Sad.
I would return it to the seller for a refund. It’s not the sellers fault as such, but it’s not the diamond you thought you were buying.
Maybe it can be repolished? But that’s an extra expense for you, will it be enough, or is a recut - with carat weight loss - necessary?

 

[tkyasx78]

I had a ring custom made for me a few years back ( ok it was probably closer to 10 ) I had purchased 2 .50 ct marquise to be set as side stones next to the center. Well the jeweler literally burned them when he was finishing the ring. If I remember right he had set them in the side settings and then thinking they would be ok he burned them ( the setting was intricate and there were a lot of parts. he should have removed them from the setting prior to putting them in the heat )
I was devastated. He admitted he had done it and replaced them, but it was upsetting to say the least.
He was remaking/adding to part of the setting though, sizing would not cause the stone in the front to be damaged. When my diamonds were burned they were paper whiteish/grey.
I would not worry that a sizing burned any diamonds. Sizing occurs at the back of the ring and they dont hold the torches anywhere near the center diamond.

 

[nala]

Did the local jeweler loupe it to confirm the gia number? Is it possible the seller swapped the center stone?

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

That is definitely not the same as it was in the earlier photos.
Oh no. Sad.
I would return it to the seller for a refund. It’s not the sellers fault as such, but it’s not the diamond you thought you were buying.
Maybe it can be repolished? But that’s an extra expense for you, will it be enough, or is a recut - with carat weight loss - necessary?

I dunno. When I looked a the farther way pic on the original thread the diamond looks darker and similar to the new pics. Very hard to judge by photos though.

 

[Babyblue033]

What did the local jeweler tell you after he cleaned it?
It is possible that it is superficial. Sometimes ultrasonic is not enough. But it is also possible the haziness is the result of some clarity characteristic (s).

The owner wasn't there so it was an associate that helped me. I honestly didn't even think about burning (didn't think it can happen with diamonds) until she mentioned something about diamond being dirty when heat is added and it kind of trapping the dirt. Does that sound legit? She wasn't the most knowlegeable to be honest.

If ultrasonic cleaning isn't enough, what else can the jeweler do as far as trying to clean it?

A diamond can’t be “burnt as such, the temperatures underground that they are created in is vastly higher than a jewellers torch. Possibly an oxidation residue from the heating / melting the gold during resizing?
I think it’s more likely that it’s within the diamond, ie a colour / clarity issue. Have you got photos of the ring from the sellers site to compare with?

It really looks to me like it's on the diamond itself, but I suppose it can be reflecting something on the setting/prongs. Seller had a lot of photos and videos and I didn't notice anything obvious, but they were all taken before resizing.

Is there a cert for the stones? Was it a PS'er who sold it to you?

Yes, GIA certed, K VS1. Seller originally bought it from a PSer, not sure if she herself is one.

That is definitely not the same as it was in the earlier photos.
Oh no. Sad.
I would return it to the seller for a refund. It’s not the sellers fault as such, but it’s not the diamond you thought you were buying.
Maybe it can be repolished? But that’s an extra expense for you, will it be enough, or is a recut - with carat weight loss - necessary?

I mean if it's a fixable issue with a "simple" repolishing, I would prefer to do that and keep the ring. I just want to find out what the issue is exactly, because it honestly just looked like a dirty stone, until I couldn't get it cleaned.

Did the local jeweler loupe it to confirm the gia number? Is it possible the seller swapped the center stone?

She looped it but did not confirm the number. I plan on going back when the owner is back and ask him to look into it more. Seller is pretty reputable and this was part of her personal collection I believe, which she originally purchased from a PSer.

This was rhe old thread I found about burnt diamond. No photos but description fits.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-burned-diamonds.29911/

 

[the_mother_thing]

Have you reached out to the seller to ask if she examined the diamond when her jeweler finished the resizing? I’d be hard-pressed to think someone who owned and wore the ring didn’t notice a change in appearance to the main/center stone if it wasn’t present before.

I might suggest taking the cert in with you when you revisit the jeweler, and in addition to confirming the cert # on the stone (assuming it was engraved by GIA), have him/her compare the plot to what he sees under magnification - that it does match the cert as well as if one of the clarity characteristics could be causing the problem somehow.

Can you post the GIA # for the center stone so PSers can take a look at the report?

 

[Babyblue033]

Have you reached out to the seller to ask if she examined the diamond when her jeweler finished the resizing? I’d be hard-pressed to think someone who owned and wore the ring didn’t notice a change in appearance to the main/center stone if it wasn’t present before.

I might suggest taking the cert in with you when you revisit the jeweler, and in addition to confirming the cert # on the stone (assuming it was engraved by GIA), have him/her compare the plot to what he sees under magnification - that it does match the cert as well as if one of the clarity characteristics could be causing the problem somehow.

Can you post the GIA # for the center stone so PSers can take a look at the report?

Yeah I did ask her and she said she didn't notice it. Honestly, I think most people are probably not as sensitive about clean/dirty diamonds as we are here and might not notice unless really paying attention.

GIA # is 6147998004. I'll definitely ask the jeweler to check against the cert just to be sure. Thank you for the recommendation.

 

[Babyblue033]

This was rhe old thread I found about burnt diamond. No photos but description fits.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-burned-diamonds.29911/

"It looks like a smokey whiteish cloudy film on the stone surface that will not even rub off with the point of tweezers and hard scratching.
It may be on all or only some facets.
It makes the stone look milky dirty"

I'll try to take better pictures tomorrow showing it, but above description pretty much matches what I'm seeing.

 

[the_mother_thing]

Yeah I did ask her and she said she didn't notice it. Honestly, I think most people are probably not as sensitive about clean/dirty diamonds as we are here and might not notice unless really paying attention.

GIA # is 6147998004. I'll definitely ask the jeweler to check against the cert just to be sure. Thank you for the recommendation.

Link to cert, which does have a plot (not all <1ct stones do, so that is good)!

No clouds noted ... and I wouldn’t imagine the noted inclusions to affect a stone to that degree (what you’re seeing) and still be considered a VS1.

What kind of soap did you soak it in with the hot water? Regular Dawn (e.g., no moisturizers or additives)?

 

[the_mother_thing]

@Babyblue033 Can you please post another picture of the ring from the side like this, but closer up and straight on, if possible?

 

[Rfisher]

Babyblue033
I hope this is as simple as a deeper cleaning than a dawn soak, but
Did you keep the photos from the listing you actually purchased the ring from?
Can you share for comparison?

 

[ChristineRose]

Diamonds can burn in a house fire. The reason one doesn't see diamonds scorched by stoves and stray cigarettes is that they require oxygen to burn, the waste product is carbon dioxide, and if it's only normal atmospheric oxygen it's not nearly as tightly packed as the carbon and the fire is starved out pretty quickly. Diamonds being formed in a kimberlite volcano are completely away from air. In the case of a jeweler's torch the fire is being actively fed from the gas supply and will not burn out.

I found quite a few pics if you are interested.
https://geralddavidbauman.wordpress.com/tag/burned-diamonds/
https://www.gia.edu/diamond-care-cleaning
http://www.meevis.com/jewelry-making-class-cooking-broken-diamond.htm

 

[the_mother_thing]

I am hypothesizing that something about the setting - based on the pics - seems off about the mounting from when Niel posted her pics of it. Specifically, the center prongs/struts *appear* to have possibly had work done.

It looks like - in Niel’s pic on the right - the struts/prongs look well-defined and distinct. But in @Babyblue033 pic, the area circled in red looks like it’s smushed a little bit vs as straight defined/refined as Niel’s pic (on the right). This would make me think there may have been work done on the center area of the ring for some reason.



Again, I am hypothesizing based on the pics and where shadows should be based on each pic. They just look a little different to me in that specific area. Anyone else see what I think I am seeing?

 

[Rfisher]

@Babyblue033 Can you please post another picture of the ring from the side like this, but closer up and straight on, if possible?

Are you comparing this shot you attached to a side shot from Niels original thread? The crown?

 

[the_mother_thing]

Are you comparing this shot you attached to a side shot from Niels original thread? The crown?

Yup, see my post above your last.

ETA: I hope I am wrong in what I am thinking here.

 

[Rfisher]

I hope it's a trick of the eye in the angle of the shot.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

I’m getting bad vibes too & think something is off here. the_mother_thing you have sharp eyes! I totally see the difference in Niel’s ring & the one the OP got. Plus, the crown height looks way taller than the original diamond. Could be that the stone was set higher, but looks taller. I hope my 4 eyes are failing me & in this case I’d be happy if they were. :-/.

 

[nala]

Have you reached out to the seller to make her aware of your concerns? Also, can you post the description/ad?

 

[Rfisher]

Babyblue033
I think your original thread said you suspected this was Neil's ring for sale in the listing.
Was that confirmed by the seller you bought from?

 

[Babyblue033]

Hi everyone. Just quickly reading through as I'm trying to put a toddler to bed who refuses to go to sleep (11:30pm here!) But I'll read through more carefully tomorrow and also take a closer look at the ring. Also will try for closer/clearer pictures for comparison.

 

[bcavitt]

We have a customer we sold a ring with a 2 carat D/VVS2 princess cut center stone that would develop a film over it that wouldn't come off with an ultrasonic cleaning. Turned out the hair spray she used was coating the diamond. We had to give the ring an acid bath to get rid of the film and would have to do it again every three months because she wouldn't take the ring off while prepping herself. She finally started removing the ring after about two years of this.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

Bryan, she's not a PS'r I don't think. LOL What a hassle. Just put it on after you get ready. Does an acid bath have any effects on a diamond long term or the metal? I really hope that this is the ticket to cleaning Babyblue033's stone.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

The owner wasn't there so it was an associate that helped me. I honestly didn't even think about burning (didn't think it can happen with diamonds) until she mentioned something about diamond being dirty when heat is added and it kind of trapping the dirt. Does that sound legit? She wasn't the most knowlegeable to be honest.

If ultrasonic cleaning isn't enough, what else can the jeweler do as far as trying to clean it?


It really looks to me like it's on the diamond itself, but I suppose it can be reflecting something on the setting/prongs. Seller had a lot of photos and videos and I didn't notice anything obvious, but they were all taken before resizing.


Yes, GIA certed, K VS1. Seller originally bought it from a PSer, not sure if she herself is one.


I mean if it's a fixable issue with a "simple" repolishing, I would prefer to do that and keep the ring. I just want to find out what the issue is exactly, because it honestly just looked like a dirty stone, until I couldn't get it cleaned.


She looped it but did not confirm the number. I plan on going back when the owner is back and ask him to look into it more. Seller is pretty reputable and this was part of her personal collection I believe, which she originally purchased from a PSer.

This was rhe old thread I found about burnt diamond. No photos but description fits.
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pictures-of-burned-diamonds.29911/

I looked at the cert and there is nothing clarity wise that would account for what you are seeing, if the stone in the ring is the same stone in the report.

Material can be 'baked on' to the surface of a diamond and require special cleaning in an acid bath.

The actual surface of the diamond can also be damaged by heat requiring the stone to be repolished. Unfortunately there is no such thing as 'simple repolishing'. It will have to be sent to diamond cutter to put back on the wheel, which involves expense and some uncertainty.

 

[bcavitt]

Bryan, she's not a PS'r I don't think. LOL What a hassle. Just put it on after you get ready. Does an acid bath have any effects on a diamond long term or the metal? I really hope that this is the ticket to cleaning Babyblue033's stone.

No ill effects at all. Platinum (in her case) and diamonds are both acid proof. Just the gunk on the diamond.

 

[Babyblue033]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I'm not gonna be able to see the jeweler until Mon so I'll know more then. From reading, it sounds like acid bath might be what I need, then worst case repolish.

Some more macro photos today. It DOES look like the center stone may have been removed at some point, just based on what the prongs look like compared to original photos from Niel? I'll ask the seller, but any reason why resizing (went down from 7.25 to 5.25) would require touching the stone/prongs? Just wondering since sizing was pretty drastic and setting had pinched prongs (I was concerned about resizing originally but seller's jeweler said no problem)

I think you can better see the "film" I'm talking about.



Side photo as requested.