Bumps before smooth sailing?

[jas]

Has anyone else just had a WEEK this week? Blech.

I''ve only been here at PS a week and I value a spot to let this all out...

Briefly, been w/ the BF for over a year. In that time he''s started therapy to deal with his intimacy issues and there has been incredible growth in him and in our relationship. Even though I was super snoop last weekend (and was caught, you can read my earlier post) things were unbelievable...he was dropping hint bombs like there was no tomorrow.

This has been a tough month for me w/ job unhappiness and surgery earlier this week (I''m fine, just low-energy). I didn''t really want him aroudn when I was in pain, but I enjoyed talking w/ him on the phone and knew if I needed anything he''d be there. I was pleased as punch.

Yesterday he opened up and started explaining to me that he felt he hadn''t been there for me emotionally because when I''m down, he tends to explode that into "gee, will she always be like this? Is this really the woman I want to be with." Please know this is why he is in therapy and he knows it''s irrational and unfair to me. He doesn''t expect me to be superwoman but he beats himself up if he feels he is letting me down. (I never thought he was, this was triggered by him seeing me in physical pain on Monday and then sort of shutting down.)

Ultimately, after talking for 2 hours, a few things came out that put things in perspective for me and him:

1. He was going to propose last weekend (or was, as he said, "ready to make the leap")
2. He''s scared of "failing me" somehow.
3. He''s worried that he catastrophizes everything and is working on that in therapy and wants to know if I am understanding of that.
4. He is working on not detaching from his own emotions (again, something he''s working on in therapy) so that he can ride the emotional rollercoaster with me or let me ride with someone else.

That last one hurt, although I think he was sort of testing my reaction to that last one.


What was also odd was that he kept saying, "I was all there in the last few weeks, thinking about rings, about the ceremony, about what I would say to you..."

I said, "Do you think about the marriage?"

He said he did, and that all he thinks about is that he''s worried he''s going to fail somehow.

Then he quietly asked me what I think about when I think about marriage to him.

I said something to the effect that marriage to him would be daily small negotiations, two people leading healthy and independent and interdependent lives so that we could come home at night and bring a lot back to the relationship. And it would be me dancing around to bad 70s music with a towel around my head after getting out of the shower. Cuz I do that. Don''t ask.

He started to cry and said that that was beautiful. He said it sounded so easy. I said it''s NOT easy, but it''s doable, and if we both want it and understand there is work involved, the joy will follow.

We''ve had a few "heavy" conversations like this before, and they always tend to be speed bumps before we hit the next level. He was so happy and relieved after we talked, as was I. He also was saying throughout that his timing is crappy and that the struggle with him is always that he knows logically that these feelings are irrational, but he''s working through them.

Right now, on the one hand, I am happy because he is talking with me about this, and past history has shown we always soar after these talks. He has needed to see that my love is unconditional...that there are times when I may not like him but that I still love him and know he doesn''t say these things to hurt me but so that we can grow beyond them.

On the other hand, I just feel kind of scared, like he''s taken things off the table, you know? I don''t worry the relationship is over. Instead, I feel it is stronger than ever because I could say I was hurt by his timing and hurt by his issues but that I appreciated him talking with me and knew his anguish was because he doesn''t want to feel this way but he does and he''ll work through it as he always has.

I guess I need some detached opinions from those of you who''ve been through this sort of thing, or at least who can read this...

He is a wonderful man who I know is a magnificent partner to me and for whom I am a maginificent partner. He has these lows every 3 months (and more infrequently and less low than before)...do you think that this was sort of a "cold feet" because he was so close to proposing? It''s selfish and silly for me to even wonder...because ultimately we''re closer and stronger and oddly happier than ever because we are safe together in our most vulnerable moments.

For those of you who''ve "been there, done that" -- he didn''t use this to pull away from me, he seemed to use this to get closer, if that makes sense. Am I reading this wrong or is he getting closer? I know there are a lot of issues involved, and the therapist has told him he is ready to make "the leap" when he feels the time is right.

Thanks -- I hope this isn''t rambling nonsense!

Jas

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Hi, I have not experienced this personally, but I watched a similar situation with my daughter and her boyfriend. He had even gone to the point of asking us if he could propose. But every so often, when things weren''t going well, he''d back down and tell her he needed a break. The bottom line for him was that his parents were divorced and he is an only child. He absolutely did not want to put children through the same thing he went through. So he was worried everytime that they had an argument that the marriage might not last. I really think he will need therapy before he ever marries.

Is there by any chance divorce in your boyfriend''s family? That might account for some of his anxiety about it. It''s a sad thing, but that is one of the unintended side effects of divorce. But people do need to go into marriage with realistic expectations. It''s certainly not fun and interesting all the time. It takes work and commitment. It takes a decision to love even when the person may not deserve it.

I don''t see any way you can adjust your emotions to shield them from him. So he''ll need to understand that women are emotional and show emotions, and we get over things in time. It''s really great he''s getting therapy to deal with all this now, though.

 

[jas]

Thank you, diamondseeker.

Fortunately, he does not expect me to be "all right" all the time. He struggles with what he knows are unrealistic expectations of marriage.

His parents are still married. Like all marriages that have lasted 40 some odd years, they have arrived at certain "roles" that they''ve accepted. His dad is the "emotional" one -- what I see from my adult outsider perspective is that he''s all bark, no bite. He''s a loving man who doesn''t know how to express it well, but he does express it, gruffly. His mom has a perpetual ''game face" -- everything is fine, fine, fine in public. However, she has befriended my mom since we started dating and she does what so many of us do...rely on our gal pals to debrief and exhale and complain and worry. My BF doesn''t really see this side...he said that all he''s ever seen is if his mom is unhappy she takes time for herself (which, I''m guessing, she uses to be with her friends) so that all is seemingly hunkey-dorey when she returns to the family.

This is his perspective of marriage. His aunts and uncles all work the same way. And what he knows of his friends'' marriages is similar...I mean, don''t we usually all see couples (especially younger couples) put on their game faces in public, even if things are not well? So he doesn''t have experience with women struggling.

Not that I''ve been a downer, but I ain''t prancing around these days.

In the past, he has withdrawn from relationships when "real life" has hit. He says he doesn''t want to do that anymore, that I''m worth growing for, that he doesn''t want to lose me. He has to slowly start to see that his "images" of marriage can''t be based on his impressions of his parents which were largely formed as a child with a child''s perspective.

It''s a journey, and always will be.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Well, that''s really good he is coming from a relatively healthy background. It sounds like he is making progress and will probably get over these fears once you are married. Good for him to get therapy to work on it, too! Do you realize how few men would be willing to do that? There was a recent thread on here about premarital counseling, and it sounds like that might be a good next step once you''re engaged! Please let us know when he proposes, and post a picture of your ring on the Show Me the Ring forum! (I don''t usually come to LIW since I have been married a LONG time!) Best of luck to you!

 

[ilovesparkles]

I can totally completely relate to you! Our situations are not identical of course but there are some definite parallels. Hmmm where to start? Well my boy is not the most emotionally stable, I always joke that he is just like a woman in that sense (not to him of course). He gets really upset and frustrated when I have my emotional moments and doesn;t know how to handle things. He has gotten much better at that though. He is also deathly afraid that somehow he is going to lose me, kind of like your guy thinks hes gonna fail you. Its just not all there in logic though. We have had our fair share of bumps along the way, serious talks you go into wondering how things are going to end but we always come out so much closer and stronger. Nonetheless they are very scary! To add to the difficulties, he is not the world''s best communicator! He clams up when things are bothering him and would rather live in a cave for a week then talk about his feelings. He has expressed that he feels like a burden when he discusses his problems but has realized that is partly what a partner is for, to share the ups and downs of life. To add to the complications, we live 1600+ miles apart. Recently he did start taking a mild anti-depressant but I wish he would do therapy as well! He doesn''t have the greatest view on that though, why should he share his problems with someone he doesn;t know so they can "fix" him?!

As diamondseeker also pointed out,. there are some pieces of background for him that put a lot of the "failure" pressure on him. This is not quite the same as your guy. His mom has been married 4 times. He has no idea who is father is, he''s named after the first husband who has absolutely no relation to him. He has half siblings, step siblings nad 3 step fathers that he has known and been in his life. He was engaged years ago, when he lived in CO and she in WA. He moved to be with her only to learn that he was cheating on him. So there are quie a few barriers to his commitment with me. We have discussed extensively the marriage/divorce issues because my parents too are divcorced. That we have both moved past. He claims his experience with his ex he has moved past as thinking it will happen again, i.e. he moves here to be with me and we fall apart/break up for whatever reason. Our last serious conversation this past week was not as happy ended as previous ones. Mostly because he has finally come to the realization of the true root of his problems and hesitations in life. But having realized what his going on, he feels he can finally slowly move forward. The plan is for him to move out here in January, and hopefully (crossing fingers oh so tightly!) get engaged sometime in 2007/early 2008.

I feel like my post is all completely jumbled and I hope you can make some sense out of it. But I do think every one has speed bumps along the way and as you work on them they make the relationship stronger. And as you said to your BF, marriage/life isn''t easy. You have to work at it every day. I can;t remember the line right now but it is one of my absolute favorites, from The Notebook. At the end when he tells her something along the lines of you tell me when I''m being a jerk and I tell you when you are being a pain. And its gonna be hard but I wanna do it because I love you and I want all of you for the rest of my life..... Now I am gonna have to go weatch it again. Well hope some of this helped!

 

[jas]

Date: 5/14/2006 9:32:38 PM
Author: ilovesparkles
I can totally completely relate to you! Our situations are not identical of course but there are some definite parallels. Hmmm where to start? Well my boy is not the most emotionally stable, I always joke that he is just like a woman in that sense (not to him of course). He gets really upset and frustrated when I have my emotional moments and doesn;t know how to handle things. He has gotten much better at that though. He is also deathly afraid that somehow he is going to lose me, kind of like your guy thinks hes gonna fail you. Its just not all there in logic though. We have had our fair share of bumps along the way, serious talks you go into wondering how things are going to end but we always come out so much closer and stronger. Nonetheless they are very scary! To add to the difficulties, he is not the world''s best communicator! He clams up when things are bothering him and would rather live in a cave for a week then talk about his feelings. He has expressed that he feels like a burden when he discusses his problems but has realized that is partly what a partner is for, to share the ups and downs of life. To add to the complications, we live 1600+ miles apart. Recently he did start taking a mild anti-depressant but I wish he would do therapy as well! He doesn''t have the greatest view on that though, why should he share his problems with someone he doesn;t know so they can ''fix'' him?!

As diamondseeker also pointed out,. there are some pieces of background for him that put a lot of the ''failure'' pressure on him. This is not quite the same as your guy. His mom has been married 4 times. He has no idea who is father is, he''s named after the first husband who has absolutely no relation to him. He has half siblings, step siblings nad 3 step fathers that he has known and been in his life. He was engaged years ago, when he lived in CO and she in WA. He moved to be with her only to learn that he was cheating on him. So there are quie a few barriers to his commitment with me. We have discussed extensively the marriage/divorce issues because my parents too are divcorced. That we have both moved past. He claims his experience with his ex he has moved past as thinking it will happen again, i.e. he moves here to be with me and we fall apart/break up for whatever reason. Our last serious conversation this past week was not as happy ended as previous ones. Mostly because he has finally come to the realization of the true root of his problems and hesitations in life. But having realized what his going on, he feels he can finally slowly move forward. The plan is for him to move out here in January, and hopefully (crossing fingers oh so tightly!) get engaged sometime in 2007/early 2008.

I feel like my post is all completely jumbled and I hope you can make some sense out of it. But I do think every one has speed bumps along the way and as you work on them they make the relationship stronger. And as you said to your BF, marriage/life isn''t easy. You have to work at it every day. I can;t remember the line right now but it is one of my absolute favorites, from The Notebook. At the end when he tells her something along the lines of you tell me when I''m being a jerk and I tell you when you are being a pain. And its gonna be hard but I wanna do it because I love you and I want all of you for the rest of my life..... Now I am gonna have to go weatch it again. Well hope some of this helped!

Not jumbled at all -- it''s hard to explain relationships like this -- but I hear you completely! My BF is also Mr. Clammy Mouth when he''s upset and up until recently I''ve had to "figure out" if something was bothering him, and then drag it out of him with a 40 mule team and a pair of tweezers. Fortunately (ha!) he is now better at letting me know stuff without my poking around. What a joy that can be. He feels soooo much better getting it off his chest, and I am left, at first, confused and reeling, but ultimately also better.

My BF was also engaged...she broke it off with him by saying that he''d never want to be with anyone and would fail at any serious relationship he attempted. Nice, huh? Maybe we get to be the Ex-Exorcists

My best friend actually kinda giggled when I told her my story -- SHE thinks this is his final freak out before committing. I dunno -- she''s been right about him all along.

Thank you for sharing your story. Sometimes it''s hard to read everyone''s stories and see all the success and forward progress...and sometimes it''s just so darn encouraging!

Thanks again!

 

[ilovesparkles]

Good I am glad I could help relate some! I have had quite a few little situations posted on here when things have gone awry. I could dig them up if you''d be interested in reading any. I love PS because it is such a great place to vent, let of steam, get advice, a fresh perspective, commiserate, etc. As wonderful as it can be you do have to be a little cautious because sometime people can read more into a situation than is there. I did have one post when I was out there with my boy and people were looking up women''s shelters for me to stay at for the evening

But it is all out of the goodness of their heart of course.

So it sounds like you are a lot closer to engagment than I am though! Lucky girl

 

[anchor31]

My BF''s parents marriage is also a failure, and it''s horrible because they are still together and fight all the time. J hates it, and I hate it because it really eats at him sometimes.

Fallouts and fights happen in the best relationships. As long as you can talk things through together, things should work out. Of course nothing can be certain, but I think that the most important thing is to try our hardest and fight for what we believe in.

The best of luck to you!

 

[jas]

It''s amazing what our "model relationships" can do to our perceptions, no?

I appreciate everyone''s feedback. It''s hard when he''s so raw and I''m so raw...I just spoke with him...he''s exhausted from the "emotions'' of the weekend...his worries about me and, as I just found out, his grandmother is nearing the end of her life, probably 3 weeks more max.

On top of this all, he''s trying to slow down a toxic friendship with an old gal-pal of his. She''s one of those people who just manages to bring out all his insecurities, etc. You all know the type. I told him in January that I always feel that I get the fallout from their get-togethers, that I don''t want to interfere with the friendship but that I don''t want to see him for about 4-5 days after they get together. It''s worked out...and he has decided to pull back from that friendship...not end it, but he sees how negative she is.

But she misses him and wants contact again...

I am starting to believe in things happening in threes, but lordy all three in two days?

I also feel like a selfish witch...through all this I just keep wondering how much this will "slow things down" for us. And there''s no indication of this (well, beyond our little discussion).

I guess I''ve just tasted...TASTED that ring, that life together, and I''ve had to put that back on the plate for awhile.

Meanwhile, I''m still drooling over rings.

And giggling over the fact that he told me that he told his mother today that he was looking at stoves because *I* didn''t like the old one (I don''t) and because I will do all the cooking (it''s not a sexist thing...he does the dishes. That boy could burn water). He then said he told her that he wants to redo the whole kitchen for me.

Of course I laughed and told him that I would chip in for the kitchen if I lived there. Which he knows I won''t until we''re engaged. Am I subtle or what?