broken engagement, ring unreturned?

[stephinextremis]

I have a friend who is in a bit of a tight spot concerning a relationship that has fallen apart. I am hoping that I can get some insight from members here about his situation- you are all so helpful and knowledgeable

To make a long story very short, my friend was dating a woman who subsequently moved in with him. Soon after this they became engaged, and he offered to her his deceased grandmother''s wedding set, 6 ctw. in platinum. I do not have specifics, but the set is in perfect shape and the diamonds appear to be of very high quality. It is worth a substantial amount of money.

Unfortunately, this woman took a short vacation with her daughter to visit family members, and that vacation turned into a phone call to my friend..."Guess what? I''m not coming back home, and it''s over unless you move HERE." My friend is unable to move due to several obligations, and after this turn of events does not really desire to. The relationship is over. However, the rings are 1500 miles away, with no promise of being returned!

My friend thinks that it may work out, considering he still houses the majority of his former fiancee''s posessions (i.e. "you get your clothes/books/music/daughter''s things back when/if I get the rings back") but does he have any legal recourse if she seems unwilling to return the rings?

Thank you in advance for any insight or experience you can relate to me!

Stephanie

 

[goldengirl]

Yes, he does. While most men do not sue for the return of the rings, he will (very likely) win if he does, as most states have "no-fault" rules regarding broken engagements: ie, no matter who does the breaking off (and ESPECIALLY if she does the breaking off, and ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY if it a family heirloom!!) the rings are returned to the giver.

I do not know if he may refuse to return her other possessions until he receives the ring back, but he can sure try until a police officer tells him otherwise!

Make sure he changes the locks. If he asks nicely and she refuses to return them, he should start the process to get them back soon--as in, before she can sell them.

 

[icelady]

Hi stephinextremis,

This is a very unfortunate situation. I am not an attorney, but I know there are some that post here.

First of all, I cannot believe that this woman wouldn't at least try to return the rings immediately since she is calling it off with an ultimatum. Maybe she still thinks it will work out.

In any event, it sounds like your friend needs to be right up front about it and discuss the subject with her to be clear that she knows that he wants the rings back in the same condition that she received them. Hopefully he has documentation on them so that he actually gets the same rings back.

Wish him good luck!

 

[fire&ice]

Oh dear, I would ask if she still wants to get married even if he can't move there. If not, I would say something like I would really like the engagment ring back as it has sincere family attachment.

Good luck to him.

 

[stephinextremis]

Thank you to all who replied so far.

You would think she would leave the rings here, since she admitted that knew she would not be returning. I would!

As I understand the situation, he considers the engagement over. She initially wanted him to move there and continue the relationship, and from what I know, she would continue it still. Yet she will only continue on her terms, which means he disrupts his life with a difficult move from CA to TX, and does so with no promise of further commitment from her. There are other issues that have come to light in the wake of her departure, and he does not wish to be with her any longer both because of those issues, and because of how she decided to go about this in general. It's sad all around, as my fiance and I were good friends with her as well

I do appreciate the advice given so far, and I will pass this along to my friend when I speak to him this week.

Stephanie

 

[fire&ice]

He may want to retain a lawyer. Sometimes they do things like this for about 5-600 if he can get a quick summary (?) judgement. With that, he may be able to lien her property. Don't know - only know how it works in the Construction industry.

Either way, I would tell him to change the locks. Things can get ugly quickly. But, trying the nice, calm root is best in the beginning w/ try to CYA on the side.

 

[AndyRosse]

Most states consider an engagement ring a conditional gift, the condition of course being that marriage will occur. A few states consider it an unconditional gift, while others are somewhat in between. As someone said earlier, some states require the ring to be returned when the receiver of the ring is the one calling off the engagement, etc. I would find out the specific law to California and go from there. A quick call to a local lawyer should be of some help, otherwise I'm sure someone here on the board can take a quick look into case law in California pertaining to this matter.

I hope everything works out!!

 

[Todd07]

Not a lawyer but here's my understanding


- ering is a conditional gift. After marriage, it's fully given to the woman.


- If the ering was given on a b-day or something similar, one can argue successfuly that it was not a conditional gift and keep the ring.




Laws vary state by state so speaking to a lawyer is recommended. Small Claims court may be a viable answer to get a judgement.

 

[hoorray]

I'd
1. change the locks
2. call a lawyer and find out the law
3. contact her and ask semi-nicely for it back

I have to believe (I'm not a lawyer) that your friend has legal rights to the ring and will be able to get it back, but I'd try to be smart, not emotional, about it to increase those odds.

 

[stephinextremis]

He will be contacting her this week to attempt to resolve this situation. Hopefully all goes well. Fortunately, if it does not, there are several attorneys we know who may be able to assist him. The locks are not a big deal right now- she's 1500 miles away and has no means of getting back (does not drive, has no money.)

Thank you again, everyone- I appreciate this...it's no fun to see a good friend get screwed over.

Stephanie

 

[reena]

hi, sorry to hear about your friend's dilemma.

although i am not in any way purporting to give you legal advice (sorry about the lame disclaimer but just to be clear), here's what a very quick search on the web turned up:

West's Ann.Cal.Civ.Code § 1590

§ 1590. Gifts in contemplation of marriage; recovery

Where either party to a contemplated marriage in this State makes a gift of money or property to the other on the basis or assumption that the marriage will take place, in the event that the donee refuses to enter into the marriage as contemplated or that it is given up by mutual consent, the donor may recover such gift or such part of its value as may, under all of the circumstances of the case, be found by a court or jury to be just.

 

[marriahlyn]

Yes he should keep the items until he's told not to by the lawyer. Possession is 9/10's of the law. If I were him, I'd DEFINITELY record the conversation he makes to her and be careful what he says......like make sure he doesn't call off the engagement on the phone.

 

[marriahlyn]

BTW, I was told by most that taped phone conversations were not allowed in the courtroom, but I believe it's up to a judge to decide that. I was allowed to play taped conversations during my divorce proceedings.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 9/27/2004 10:36:19 PM stephinextremis wrote:

The locks are not a big deal right now- she's 1500 miles away and has no means of getting back (does not drive, has no money.)

Stephanie----------------

She can give permission to someone to retrive her stuff. I maintain - change the locks.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Stephanie, I'm so sorry to hear about your friends unfortunate situation. There is a lot of good advice being given here, but quite honestly, none of it will matter if this person decides to make some quick cash out of the value of the ring and hawk it. She seems to have no integrity and I wouldn't put anything past her at this point. Desperate people do desperate things, especially if it becomes a point of contention. He may have to be extra nice to her just to make her see the sentimental value of it, and hope she agrees and does the right thing.

I hope it all works out for him. It will be such a moral crime on her part if it did not.

 

[goldengirl]

Sorry, I have to ask cuz I'm just not getting it...what is a "CYA" thing? Does it stand for something? Or is it just like, seeya, buhbye, have a great life?

 

[Kamuelamom]

goldengirl, my apologies. CYA actually is "cover your a$$," but in the context in which I meant it had a totally different meaning. Don't know what I was thinkin'. Just rushing and reading and typing I guess. Sorry bout that. But at least you now know what it means.

Anyway I edited my post to avoid more confusion.

 

[goldengirl]

lol, it's okay, you're not the only one that used the term which is why I finally piped up.

 

[Kamuelamom]

----------------
On 9/29/2004 3:01:06 AM goldengirl wrote:

lol, it's okay, you're not the only one that used the term which is why I finally piped up.

----------------

Yeah, F&I, who first used it, used it in the appropriate context for this thread. She's smart and her construction's long done so she knows what she's talking about now.

I don't.

 

[strmrdr]

cya == short form of see(c) you(ya) when not used to mean cover your fanny.

 

[JOEELI7]

HER THINKING IS NOT A GOOD SIGN TO BE A GOOD AND LOVING WIFE THAT YOU WILL SHARE THE REST OF YOUR LIFE WITH.IF SHE IS THINKING LIKE THIS BEFORE THE MARRAGE WHAT WILL HAPPEN AFTER THE MARRAGE WHEN YOU WILL PURCHASE FEW PROPERTIES OR INHERIT YOUR FAMILY BUSINESS. A GOOD WOMAN WITH A CLEAR CONSCIOUS WILL RETURN THE RING.

MY RECOMENDATION LEAVE HER IMMEDIATLY.

AN ENGAGEMENT RING IS A GIFT, ONLY WHEN THE MARRIAGE IS FULFILLED.

 

[didiamond]

I agree with everyone here. I think he needs to change his locks (I don't care HOW far away she is) and be rid of her. Maybe he should go there in the pretense as if to check out the area and when she removes the rings (if she is still wearing them) he should take possession of them. Then LEAVE!!! I guess this all depends on what type of person she REALLY is. Would she spite him because he doesn't want to move? Will she give them back willingly? Will she say she lost them?

I don't know, it's just another thought. Legally I don't think she has the right to keep them but that doesn't mean that in anger she might retaliate and do something spiteful.

 

[cowboy1230]

Have any of you visited www.theregoesthebride.com




I'm sure there are some cads out there but some of the spiteful stories make me shudder. One girl threw her ring over Niagra falls to get even.

 

[Kamuelamom]

Cowboy, stay still will you. Be nice to Kmom. I can't keep up with your new handles changing every day.