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Breeding my baby??

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Mandarine

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Hi!

So I''ve been thinking about breding my baby (min. schnauzer). My FMIL wants a puppy but just if he''s just like mine!....he''s just the best dog ever!, of course everyone thinks that though
hehe

I know a lot of people will probably jump on the "get him neutered" wagon...but I won''t do it. I can''t bring myself to doing it...it''s just not what I''m used to (it''s a cultural thing I guess). So pleeease don''t lecture me on that
I get it from my vet everytime we go for a visit!. It''s just a personal decision and I just don''t think it''s natural.

I''ve always thought I want to breed him at least once. The thing is, I don''t want him to "change" so I''m wondering if anybody has any experience with this?. He has such a great personality and I don''t want that to change.

Any thoughts? Thanks!!

M~
 

Mara

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why would you want to breed him?
 

JulieN

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title made me lol.

obviously, just because two animals share half the same genes doesn't mean they'll act the same. scientists say 50%
 

FireGoddess

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Unless you know who his parents were, their parents, the parents of the dog you''d breed him to, etc...it''s hard to predict what kind of outcome you''re going to get...
 

Mandarine

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I know they won''t be the same., but they will be family!..I would want to breed him to keep a puppy
....well, to give it to my FMIL...that is if I can actually hand the puppy over though..hehe. Also to let him live a ''natural'' life.

M~
 

musey

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Date: 2/7/2007 6:29:38 PM
Author:Mandarine
I've always thought I want to breed him at least once. The thing is, I don't want him to 'change' so I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with this?. He has such a great personality and I don't want that to change.
I don't have experience with animals after they've been bred, but my male dog didn't change much after he was neutered--so it's probably not much different in terms of horomonal changes. Unneutered male dogs are said to be different in the long run (more aggresive, tend to wander, try to run away, etc.--obviously just a generalization) but I haven't heard of changes before and after they've "bred."

We had a wonderful cat when I was very young (3 or 4) that my parents decided not to have spayed right away because we had homes for all of her potential kittens. They bred her with a neighbor's cat (also a great personality), and their kittens turned out kinda "whatever" as far as personality goes
. My dog is amazing and I'd love to breed him if I knew 100% that his puppies would turn out just like him, but it's always just a big game of chance!
 

Mara

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i know that to a lot of people it just makes sense to want to have a cute dog that looks like or acts like your dog....but knowing how many pets are out there in the world who are already born and need a home...and also knowing how clueless most people are about actually breeding and what makes a GOOD breeder and as a result a good pet, genetically and physically and emotionally, as opposed to some dude in his yard with two dogs trying to get a cute puppy....and having seen some of the defects that can happen from people who don't know what they are doing (most people) etc etc...i totally don't support random people breeding their pets. (is that the longest run on sentence or what). there is a phrase 'backyard breeders' for a reason. now if you intend to do all the research, find the right 'mate' and work with someone who really knows what they are doing, then that's different in my opinion. but i always am curious why people want to breed their dogs, is it because the dog is an absolutely amazing physical specimen of the breed that should be continued on, or is it just for a 'cute puppy'. cuz there's lots of cute puppies out there!!

our neighbors have 2 labs that are totally ill-behaved yet cute (one yellow boy and one black girl) and they got the girl so they could breed the two cuz it'd be fun and the pups would be cute.
i was like i can't even comment on that....your dogs are good-natured but it's nothing you instilled in them and i can only imagine the nightmare that our block would be with a bunch of their lab puppies running around too. i just hope they move away before they decide to get creative.


one of our other neighbors had two dogs, a shih-tzu girl and a mini-rotti boy... and neither was neutered because they don't believe in modifying nature (big eye roll there...actually the guy said that since the girl dog couldn't make the decision herself, they wouldn't make it for her, crazy much?) and of course the inevitable happened...regardless of the diaper they kept on the girl the whole time she was in heat, they got together, and lo and behold puppies however-long later. who knows what kind of health problems those dogs might have, maybe none since mixed breeds seem healthier in general, but obviously no real THOUGHT was put into the potential of that happening or the result etc it was just like 'oopsie look who's preggo'. the pups were cute but jeez.
 

pricescope

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Mandarine, i understand you and yes i did breed my Gordon, he did not changed a tiny bit after that remaining as... hmmm "very interested" as he was before for the rest 14 years of his life. Fixing is an American thing so yes, it cultural. Can you imagine they will try to make it mandatory here in Canada?
 

diamondsrock

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well, I've got a schnauzer and she's just the cutest thing but we had her spayed. I felt it was the right thing to do. There was about 5 minutes of, oh, wouldn't she have cute puppies? but honestly I wouldn't feel confident or capable of breeding her.
If you're willing to do the research and educate yourself, then that's great! But for me, no way.

Also, my mother's cat had mammary gland cancer and the vet said it was because she was spayed so late in life. The kitty was from a shelter. I believe that if you spay a dog or cat early then they are a reduced risk for mammary gland cancer. I figured if I could try to prevent my dog from going through what that cat went through, it's worth it.

Enough of my rant! I would suggest you contact other schnauzer breeders in your area if you are intereseted and see what they have to say, about breeding in general and about the effect on the dog.
 

widget

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Date: 2/7/2007 6:29:38 PM
Author:Mandarine
My FMIL wants a puppy but just if he's just like mine!....
M~
Hmmm, this doesn't sound like a great reason to bring new puppies into the world...is this the main reason you're thinking of it? There are no guarantees...

Regarding the cultural thing about neutering male dogs...it hasn't always been thus in the US. I grew up thinking the idea was horrible...that it would turn dogs into "sissies"
...thankfully I've learned how wrong that was! Now I'd never consider leaving a dog intact.

You can almost always pick out the un-neutered ones at dog parks. Even if they aren't "aggressive" per se, they're usually pushier, over excited, and generally disruptive.

I do think dogs shouldn't be neutered too young, however.

JMO
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jaz464

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Date: 2/7/2007 6:55:25 PM
Author: Mara
how many pets are out there in the world who are already born and need a home...

i totally don't support random people breeding their pets.
I completley agree with this. Why breed dogs when dogs are killed everyday because there are not enough homes? Breeding to better and continue a breed (done by professionals who own champion showdogs) I can understand. Otherwise, I can not condone it. Everyone and their grandmother thinks their dog is worth breeding nowadays.
 

merrijoy

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Just wondering - would you buy a female miniature Schnauzer to breed? My little female miniature Schnauzer (aka The non-human Love of My Life) passed away at the age of 14 years in December 2006 (she is the picture in my avatar). She truly was the best dog - so very sweet, calm and caring and I miss her dearly.
Anyway, in our looking for another one, if we do decide to get one, we are going to get one from a breeder who shows Schnauzers at dog shows and only breeds to get perfect specimens, ie checking for genetic issues, running multiple tests, etc. Anyway, a lot of these breeders have males that they "lend" to others to breed with other superb specimen females - upon their approval - they must see their akc descendants, etc. But since you have a male right? I did not think you could "rent" a female - anyway, just wondering. I love the breed and had a mini Schnauzer when I was younger as well. I think they are such pretty dogs. One of the breeders I was talking to - I mentioned to her about getting 2 possibly and breeding and we were discussing people like the back yard breeders who just want to make money and don''t know about the breed and come up with things like white Schnauzers or Party Schnauzers or Toy Schnauzers with god knows what genetic issues (these last 3 are not recognized by any breeding body). So as others here as stated - it is a matter of responsibility and knowing the breed and only to breed to produce a healthy, genetically tested specimen.

Another thing to note is if you do buy the female, please remember that with any pregnancy, there is the possibility of complications - no matter how much you know. One of the breeders I was speaking to had to terminate her female''s pregnancy due to complications.


As far as spaying, I believe it is similar with boys and girls – that is about privates cancer – females are more easily prone to breast cancer and I believe males are more easily prone to testicular cancer should they not be spayed.


Hope this all helps,
If you want any info on Miniature Schnauzers, do not hesitate to ask. I have been doing tons of research.

Meredith



 

indecisive

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Date: 2/7/2007 7:35:00 PM
Author: jazmine


Date: 2/7/2007 6:55:25 PM
Author: Mara
how many pets are out there in the world who are already born and need a home...

i totally don't support random people breeding their pets.
I completley agree with this. Why breed dogs when dogs are killed everyday because there are not enough homes? Breeding to better and continue a breed (done by professionals who own champion showdogs) I can understand. Otherwise, I can not condone it. Everyone and their grandmother thinks their dog is worth breeding nowadays.
I agree totally agree
especially having worked with animal rescues
 

icekid

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Date: 2/7/2007 7:35:00 PM
Author: jazmine

I completley agree with this. Why breed dogs when dogs are killed everyday because there are not enough homes? Breeding to better and continue a breed (done by professionals who own champion showdogs) I can understand. Otherwise, I can not condone it. Everyone and their grandmother thinks their dog is worth breeding nowadays.
I have to agree here too. Responsible breeders have done YEARS of research into their breed and genetics and the line of their dog before contemplating this. Breeding without this background is not a good idea, IMO. You have no idea what you''ll get- what if you get a load of puppies with cataract problems?? I obviously don''t know anything about your dog, but I am guessing it''s not a show dog and as a "pet" likely does not conform to all of the breed standards. How would you find a female that is a good match? Would any random female do? Sorry, this just does not make any sense to me at all.
 

Cehrabehra

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Date: 2/7/2007 8:10:39 PM
Author: indecisive

Date: 2/7/2007 7:35:00 PM
Author: jazmine



Date: 2/7/2007 6:55:25 PM
Author: Mara
how many pets are out there in the world who are already born and need a home...

i totally don''t support random people breeding their pets.
I completley agree with this. Why breed dogs when dogs are killed everyday because there are not enough homes? Breeding to better and continue a breed (done by professionals who own champion showdogs) I can understand. Otherwise, I can not condone it. Everyone and their grandmother thinks their dog is worth breeding nowadays.
I agree totally agree
especially having worked with animal rescues
ITA as well.... our lab has champion parents and when we got our dog we agreed to show and breed her but at the first sign that she wasn''t show quality we had her fixed and she was never shown. She''s a VERY beautiful dog, but she''s a tad too tall for her length and her tail has a bitty point to it. We were thrilled that she wasn''t "good enough" and could just have her as pet quality. We got her for free under the terms of showing and breeding and when she wasn''t show quality they didn''t *want* her to be bred and we were aok with that.
 

scarleta

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Hello Mandarine: I can''t wait for the pics of the litter and you know you get the best of the litter if you wish..Good luck and keep us posted..
 

movie zombie

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Date: 2/7/2007 7:30:28 PM
Author: widget

Date: 2/7/2007 6:29:38 PM
Author:Mandarine
My FMIL wants a puppy but just if he''s just like mine!....
M~
Hmmm, this doesn''t sound like a great reason to bring new puppies into the world...is this the main reason you''re thinking of it? There are no guarantees...

Regarding the cultural thing about neutering male dogs...it hasn''t always been thus in the US. I grew up thinking the idea was horrible...that it would turn dogs into ''sissies''
...thankfully I''ve learned how wrong that was! Now I''d never consider leaving a dog intact.

You can almost always pick out the un-neutered ones at dog parks. Even if they aren''t ''aggressive'' per se, they''re usually pushier, over excited, and generally disruptive.

I do think dogs shouldn''t be neutered too young, however.

JMO
widget
and i''ll take it a step further and probably not as nicely said as it should be: perhaps she doesn''t need a puppy....you have a dog, not a puppy. i would add that even if you cloned your dog, the clone might not have the qualities that she adores.

i think it is wonderful that you both love your dog......but if you''re concerned about him changing after being used for stud, why chance it? the big question: will you love him less if he does change?

movie zombie
 

Mandarine

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wow that was a lot of responses!. I just went out to dinner but decided to check back in before going to bed!. Thanks for all your comments.

First of, it is most definetely a cultural thing. My schnauzer has natuarl ears and I would have a natural tail if it would have been my choice!. It''s hard to find any schanuzers in the US with the natural ears!...believe me, I''ve looked!. There are just certaing things that we just won''t agree on.

Now, I do agree about being responsible about it. I''m not a backyard breerder nor do I intend to be one!. Believe me, I take good care of my dog and care about animals too much to do something irresponsible. I am just thinking of the idea, because with proper research and care, is not a horrible idea....although I know, and do respect, that some feel that way. If I did decide to go ahead and do this, it would be after MUCH reserarch to make sure I''m doing things right...and I would want to you know where each puppy will end up (which is the only way I would do it). Not about money at all!. My baby also comes from a good line of champion dogs in Latinamerica...so he has the genes
..hehe. Again, I would do anything that I knew was irresponsible. I''m really just thinking of the idea. No concrete plans, so sorry, no pictures of cute little puppies any time soon!

The whole neutering vs not neutering argument is just not an argument I want to get into...because is just not me, period. I take my dog to the vet for regular check-ups and they checks his privates...as long as he is healthy, he will stay as he came in to this world...again, that''s just me and it''s the way my culture is...and I''m not asking for everyone to agree with me, although I do welcome your messages.

I will continue to do some research, good topic for debate though I can see
...so feel free to post away!


M~
 

Mandarine

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FMIL wanting a dog is not the reason I would do it...but if I did do it, I would only do it if I knew where the puppies were going. I wouldn''t just chance them getting into bad homes!..and I know she would be great with a puppy!.

One of the main things stopping me is thinking it might change him somehow...that''s the reason I''m asking. I wouldn''t love him less, of course not...but it is something to think about!

M~
 

AmberGretchen

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Mandarine, please don''t take this personally, because I don''t mean it as a comment on you personally, but as someone who devotes a considerable amount of time and energy working with rescue dogs and who has spent a lifetime around dogs and learning about dogs, I have to say this.

This link is extremely disturbing, but you absolutely must look at it before you make a decision to breed your dog. Millions of animals are euthanized in shelters accross America every year. Fully 70% of cats and kittens and well over half of the dogs that enter American shelters are put to sleep. That includes cute little puppies. In the best case scenario, if you are responsible and careful and do all the research and breed your dog, there are still potential significant negative consequences, including:

- the potential for them to go to bad homes. You don''t have the resources to screen homes the way a rescue group or humane society would, and that means there are very high odds that at least one of those puppies will end up dumped in a shelter that will then most likely euthanize it, or worse, neglected or abused. I think its great that you would want to find them all homes, but you really have to be an expert to screen potential homes for pets and weed out the bad ones.

- one or more of the puppies could end up like your dog, but more likely they won''t. As others have dictated, those puppies have only 50% of your dogs genes. Additionally, part of the reason that people put so much time and effort into breeding dogs is to have lines that will "breed true." That means that only with generations of screening and expertise would you be able to have a reasonable hope of predicting the offspring''s personalities. Dog''s personalities are often unpredictable even in the best of circumstances.

- even if nothing goes wrong, the puppies are everything you hoped, and all of them go to good homes (extremely unlikely because of what I explained above), you are still contributing to the pet overpopulation problem. Take a trip to your local animal control unit or human society or shelter. At least look at all those dogs - so many of them are sweet, wonderful animals who will meet their end alone and in many cases never having known a loving family of their own. I don''t know about you, but that breaks my heart every time I think of it, and I don''t think I could live with myself if I knew I was contributing to that. Every single puppy you place in a home of a friend or family member is a spot in a home that some dog or puppy wasting away in a shelter could have had. And FYI, not having your dog neutered but keeping him supervised is no guarantee that he won''t father a litter, in fact, chances are very high that he will. And I don''t want to sound harsh, but by the time your vet found testicular or other forms of cancer in your dog that are much much more likely in unneutered males, it could be way too late to do anything about it, and even if its not, cancer treatment in dogs is extremely expensive.

I know that dog and cat spay/neuter is partly an American thing, but consider that studies and anecdotal evidence show that dogs that are not fixed are actually less happy in many cases than those that are. One reason for this is sexual frustration if they are not allowed to breed but still have the urge to. Another is the increased aggression and other behavioral issues mentioned above. I even saw a study that suggested that dogs that aren''t neutered might have a serious problem yielding the alpha spot to humans in their household (or pack as far as the dog is concerned), leading to a great deal of anxiety and stress for the dog. I know that I''m not going to change your mind about this, but you really should know, objectively, that the scientific evidence overwhelmingly supports spaying or neutering as the best possible choice for the mental and physical health of any domestic dog or cat.

OK, stepping down off of soap box. This really isn''t personal Mandarine, its just something that I feel incredibly strongly about because of my personal experiences with and reading/reseearch about dog rescue. I know I probably won''t change your mind, but I would really urge you to try to read what I''ve written objectively, and at least take a trip to your local shelter and look at the dogs that those puppies would be taking homes away from, in the spirit of making a fully informed choice. Maybe even urge your FMIL to come with you - maybe she will fall in love with one of the many wonderful rescue dogs who needs a home.
 

Kaleigh

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Date: 2/7/2007 6:29:38 PM
Author:Mandarine
Hi!

So I''ve been thinking about breding my baby (min. schnauzer). My FMIL wants a puppy but just if he''s just like mine!....he''s just the best dog ever!, of course everyone thinks that though
hehe

I know a lot of people will probably jump on the ''get him neutered'' wagon...but I won''t do it. I can''t bring myself to doing it...it''s just not what I''m used to (it''s a cultural thing I guess). So pleeease don''t lecture me on that
I get it from my vet everytime we go for a visit!. It''s just a personal decision and I just don''t think it''s natural.

I''ve always thought I want to breed him at least once. The thing is, I don''t want him to ''change'' so I''m wondering if anybody has any experience with this?. He has such a great personality and I don''t want that to change.

Any thoughts? Thanks!!

M~
I think you have so much going on right now, that the best thing would be is to get your FMIL in touch with a rescue group. I bet there are Min Schnauzers just waiting for a loving home.
 

diamondfan

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Mandarine, I can understand how you feel but there are many variables involved. I have a family member who is a vet, who also breeds, trains, shows and handles her dogs. It is a LOT of work. What if you have a large litter? How do you screen each and every person and find homes for them? They will be your babies and trust me it is tough. I agree with Kaleigh, a rescue organization is likely better than taking this on. So many pets end up in shelters, it is really awful and needless. Go with her to pick a rescue dog, and see if you get a sense the dog is like your baby...and then help her get adjusted to it. Even if you do breed him, there is no guarantee the pups will all be great...
 

Lorelei

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Ditto Kaleigh and DiamondFan, this way too your FMIL gets the joy of giving a home to an unwanted dog. I also wanted to say as someone who has delivered litters of puppies before, do you have the knowhow to deal with an emergency? Not all births are straighforward if you are going to be the one attending the bitch, things can go wrong before you know it and very often you don''t have much time to recognize an emergency or get professional help - the Mother and babies can be lost rapidly. Just another very important point to consider.
 

aussiegirl23

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No offense Mandarine, but breeding your dog to bring more puppies into the world is not exactly the most responsible thing to do.

Please check out this page for Schnauzer Rescue: http://schnauzerrescue.net/

Or this google search for TONS of other Schnauzer Rescue sites: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2006-39,GGLJ:en&q=schnauzer+rescue

Or the ASPCA for a local shelter near you -- where there are Schnauzers (even pure breds) VERY often: http://www.aspca.org/site/PageServer

Try not to fall into the trap thinking your dog''s puppies will be infinetly cuter -- ANY dog you bring home to be your own will be perfect -- just give some of the dogs who haven''t had a great chance a bright new one!

Aussie : p
 

jaz464

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Yes, almost every breed out there (except the rarer ones) have a rescue group. Not all dogs looking for homes are mutts, as many assume. The way I always look at it, each dog that is produced by a breeder is taking up a home that an existing dog desperatly needs.
 

Lorelei

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Date: 2/8/2007 7:34:34 AM
Author: jazmine
Yes, almost every breed out there (except the rarer ones) have a rescue group. Not all dogs looking for homes are mutts, as many assume. The way I always look at it, each dog that is produced by a breeder is taking up a home that an existing dog desperatly needs.
Ditto Jazmine and Aussie also - please do consider the rescue option rather than breeding, you or your FMIL would be doing a wonderful thing!
 

Mandarine

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Thank you guys!. I do appreciate your comments, but the question was will it change him?..hehe. I know you all feel strongly about your comments and that''s why you are writing, so I don''t take it personally. I wish adopting a baby (an actual human being) was viewed the same way! thw world would definitely be a better place.

As far as making any decisions one way or the other, I''m not. I''m just really looking for information at this point, so don''t worry!


M~
 

merrijoy

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I think that you answer you want is below. I found this info below in this link http://www.dogsey.com/dog-articles.php?t=12589:

Once a male dog has covered a bitch then it is quite likely that he may start to exhibit undesirable behaviours. Aggression towards other males is a real possibility. He may become far more territorial. His sense of his own importance may become inflated making him less amenable to commands and more difficult to control. When he scents a bitch in season he will be even more likely to whine, howl, go off his food, become moody and irritable, and seek to escape. He will be inclined to mark inappropriately, and the smell of stud urine is rather powerful to say the least.
If you are worried about his frustrations then have him castrated. This will remove the hormone-driven urges but will not alter his personality.

HTH

Meredith
 

Mandarine

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sounds just like my brother in law!!! haha...just kidding


Thanks for the article!! No castration here though....
. He would only get with a female if I actually make that decision. He''s an indoor pet and is never outside without his leash, so is not like he can just got out at night looking for action...hehe


M~
 
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