borderline personality disorder

[Arkteia]

Is one of the most stigmatizing diagnoses in psychiatry.
I wonder how many psychiatric patients know the true meaning of one doctor telling another one, "weil, she''s borderline". For both it means, trouble.

And now read the symptoms and ask yourself how many of them you could subscribe to?
Make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.
Have a pattern of difficult relationships caused by alternating between extremes of intense admiration and hatred of others.
Have an unstable self-image or be unsure of his or her own identity.
Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse, binge eating, or reckless driving.
Have recurring suicidal thoughts, make repeated suicide attempts, or cause self-injury through mutilation, such as cutting or burning himself or herself.
Have frequent emotional overreactions or intense mood swings, including feeling depressed, irritable, or anxious. These mood swings usually only last a few hours at a time. In rare cases, they may last a day or two.
Have long-term feelings of emptiness.
Have inappropriate, fierce anger or problems controlling anger. The person may often display temper tantrums or get into physical fights.
Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality.

You have to have 5/9 symptoms to be diagnosed as borderline.

And now ask yourself how many of these symptoms fit you.

Trust me, in real life I am extremely patient, mild-mannered and positive. But when I ran this test on myself...

+ Frantic efforts to avoid abandonment? Surely! When younger, and especially now...
+ Unstable self-image? Yes! Quite sure of my identity, but they say "or"
+ Act impulsively? Well, shopping and now these stones. I always collect something, and it is costly.
- No suicidal thoughts, though
+ Mood swings that may last a few hours at a time? Bingo!
- Emptiness? Not always...
- No anger, though
- Temporary episodes of being suspicious of others? Unclear...Not paranoia but I clearly assume that people may not be as nice as they seem.

So...Had I been positive about ONE more, I''d be borderline?

Look at this test yourself. Basically, what this diagnosis implies is high level of expressed emotions (lots of women are emotional!), being unsure of yourself and mistrust of others.

We were also taught that these traits are pervasive...stay with you for life. Now, according to the latest information, most "borderlines" "burn out" by mid-30''es.

Also, it implies intense insecurity. According to other studies, 90% of girls become terribly insecure after puberty (before puberty they feel much more secure than boys).

We were told that these traits develop as the result of unstable parenting. You were betrayed by people you should have trusted. But now we are also taught that these traits are genetic.

Some things do not fit. Yet in my profession, I hear it right, left and center. A 14 year-old girl cutting on herself? Borderline! A girl having anorexia? Borderline! Unstable sexual identity? Surely! (Now we also have "male borderlines"...).

In my life I have seen a lot of women with old healed scars. Very nice, stable and helpful. I have seen many lesbians who are more stable in their relationships than anyone else. Many gays (and there is a high "borderline" index of suspicion here) who are very stable in their relationships.

Emotional people, yes. Insecure, yes. Making mistakes, surely. But not trouble! And how many people thought of suicide in their teenage years? 25% according to anonymous study among college students (1/3 of teenagers, according to other data).

I do not know if I express myself well in this posting. I am just against this highly stigmatizing diagnosis, I believe that it is given to young people and stays with them because we are taught that it is not an illness, it is a personality, it is who you are. It poisons relationships between a psychiatrist and a patient, or a therapist and a patient, because subconsciously there is still this stigma...

In revised DSM classification, many things are expected to change. We won''t have schizoid personality disorder (it is Asperger''s), some other things will be moved out of it. I am absolutely positive that "borderline" will stay, and it is sad...

Paradoxically, I am not the best person to work with so-called "borderlines". Two of my colleagues work best, one of them is young, hip and fun and simply pays no attention to this diagnosis and the other one is "old school" and firmly believes in it.

 

[Lisa Loves Shiny]

I work with patients who have psychiatric diagnosis such as borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder. Most of them are people who lack coping skills, lack problem solving skills, and have temper tantrums when things don''t go their way. If you watch a two year old act out it is a temper tantrum. Watch a 22 year old or 32 year old do the same thing and we are searching for a treatable diagnosis. It really belittles those patients who truly do meet the criteria and do have serious psychiatric problems. 8 out of 10 borderline Personality disorder patients of of mine have an enabler in tow. TRUE borderline personalities scare the socks off me. You really need to watch your back. Off my soapbox now.

 

[risingsun]

I have heard a number of my colleagues hand out the diagnosis of borderline much too easily. One of my specialities was working with clients with eating disorders. One of my co-workers made the comments that "they are all borderlines." They are not all borderlines and that kind of attitude really angers me. I have worked with my share of true borderline patients. They are not just "moody." They are at an entirely different level of maladaptive thinking, feeling, and behavior. I am reluctant to use this diagnosis unless there is no other choice.

 

[lizzyann]

Date: 6/16/2010 11:10:42 PM
Author: LisaRN
I work with patients who have psychiatric diagnosis such as borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder. Most of them are people who lack coping skills, lack problem solving skills, and have temper tantrums when things don''t go their way. If you watch a two year old act out it is a temper tantrum. Watch a 22 year old or 32 year old do the same thing and we are searching for a treatable diagnosis. It really belittles those patients who truly do meet the criteria and do have serious psychiatric problems. 8 out of 10 borderline Personality disorder patients of of mine have an enabler in tow. TRUE borderline personalities scare the socks off me. You really need to watch your back. Off my soapbox now.

Lisa, this is very interesting. I have a cousin who has been "diagnosed" with bipolar disorder. She has always thrown a temper tantrum if things don''t go her way or if someone calls her out on something. I have always said that she needs to focus less on calling herself bipolar and focus more on learning skills to deal with life''s twists and turns. We don''t all have a perfect life and we all have bad days, weeks, etc. It''s how we deal and cope. She is 35 and doesn''t work, saying that she can''t hold a job because of the bipolar. She tried to get Social Security but was denied. Her mother is her enabler and puts a roof over her head and money to blow. She defends her on all accounts and never stands up to her. My poor aunt is busting her butt working hard and I feel so bad for her because I think she will always be supporting my cousin unless she surprises me and gets her crap together. Oh and did I mention that my cousin has a 16 year old son that is also bipolar. He just dropped out of high school, no job, and is also living off of my aunt.

Crasru, you are so right that so many things in our lives can make us feel like we have a mental disorder but most of us just know that "such is life" and we move on. Thanks for starting this thread. I think it is really interesting.

 

[that_someone_special]

I heard that BPD is possibly changing to another name because "borderline" confuses people. A lot of people think it means split personalities (ah, regular people, not in the field.)


Lizzy- I recommend discussing DBT with your cousin. It helps many people.


And I just want to say, they are NOT temper tantrums. To call it that just.... really makes me mad

. Unless you know what it''s like, you won''t understand, but they are NOT temper tantrums. The best that I can describe it, is an over the top emotional response that can bring on rash actions to lessen the pain. People with BPD can physically feel pain when things go wrong.To you, it may not be a big deal, but to them it really does feel like the end of the world (impending doom, nothing will get better..)

 

[lizzyann]

Date: 6/17/2010 12:26:22 AM
Author: swedish bean
I heard that BPD is possibly changing to another name because ''borderline'' confuses people. A lot of people think it means split personalities (ah, regular people, not in the field.)



Lizzy- I recommend discussing DBT with your cousin. It helps many people.



And I just want to say, they are NOT temper tantrums. To call it that just.... really makes me mad

. Unless you know what it''s like, you won''t understand, but they are NOT temper tantrums. The best that I can describe it, is an over the top emotional response that can bring on rash actions to lessen the pain. People with BPD can physically feel pain when things go wrong.To you, it may not be a big deal, but to them it really does feel like the end of the world (impending doom, nothing will get better..)

Hi Swedish, I totally agree that therapy is key for my cousin. But the thing is that once she was diagnosed with bipolar, she stopped going to her Dr. and refuses any treatment. And she always uses the bipolar as an excuse. You don''t know how many times I have heard the word bipolar come up at family dinners because she likes to remind everyone as to why she did this or that. It is sad really, because like I said, now her son, is the same. And he also refuses any kind of treatment.

I also want to mention that I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else with my comments on my cousin. I truly am only commenting on my cousin not generalizing my comments. I am empathetic as when I was in college I went thru a bout with depression, was on medication for awhile, and met with a psychologist. And within a year was off meds and have had no more bouts with depression. But I can remember people saying that they thought depression was a made up disease and that used to offend me. So sorry if I did offend. Again, my frustration lies with my cousin and her lack of wanting to better herself and her family.

 

[that_someone_special]

No no, I totally agree when people use bi-polar or BPD as an excuse. It's like, ok we now know WHY you do it, but it doesn't make it ok, right?

I wonder if her son also has a learned behavior of acting like his mom? I know depression can be hereditary, but when your adult example is someone that constantly makes excuses for herself that cant be good for him.


And I wasn't directing the temper tantrum thing at you, sorry I should've made that a bit more clear. I just meant in general. Though I do believe adults have tantrums, I think the problem is that when you compare a BPD person with a 3 year old it's almost like you think they should know better (the adult). And while they might, they can't help it.

EDIT: too much personal info, sorry

 

[brazen_irish_hussy]

I am going to respectfully disagree with you crasru. I have known alcoholics, major depression, bipolar, asperger''s, codependency and narcissistic disorder in people I know well and none of them come close to as "nuts" as my MIL with BPD. Even the narcissist has some clue that it is them, but not MIL. My aunt, who is a psych, mentioned, as I have heard before, that borderline is so stigmatizing because they are the hardest to treat for this reason. To me, this is what defines BPD from just being overly emotional. Like the narcissist, she convinces herself of things that are not true because she likes that reality better, but unlike the narcissist I know, she doesn''t realize she does it. She will never be treatable in the way that most of the others I know will because she is unable to see that it is her and not everyone else.

As for the descriptions below, if you are anywhere near as bad on some of those things as my MIL, you do need help, but nothing you posted was remotely close to what the diagnosis criteria are.
Make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. for example, everywhere we have moved in the seven years we have been together, his family led by his mom, move to the same area. They have moved 4 times to be closer to us, even when DH is not speaking to her. When we were in Ireland for 4.5 months, her emails were so bad we kept them because if anything ever happened to us, it would prove she was unsuitable to take care of our kids. He niece actually moved to another state to avoid her at the time it was so bad.

Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse, binge eating, or reckless driving. Spending too much on stones is NOT the same as spending to the point that it is damaging. MIL had to move in with us for a few days because she had spent so much at the rent a center that they owed over $1,000 to the electricity place and could not pay it.

Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality. Believing people may not be as nice as they seem is not being so distrustful of other people that you lose track of reality.

From what you posted, you may have 2 of the 9 symptoms, and even then, I doubt any of the psychs I know would even grant you those. I think it is a fully valid diagnosis and that the reason it is stigmatized and long lasting is the nature of BPD itself which precludes most treatment and does not subside on its own, leading to a downward cycle.

 

[missydebby]

Hi... well I just had to comment. I was diagnosed with BPD 3 years ago and I'm so glad I finally could put a "name" to what I was experiencing. Let's just say, that unlike many, I was a very highly functioning BPD. Maybe too highly functioning in that the only way I could manage my swings, pre-diagnosis, was to go on 10 mile runs. Even as a kid, my experience of life was moments of happiness lived over a heavy heavy drumbeat of sadness and self doubt. Still, I got straight A's, got a scholarship to college, married a wonderful man, excelled at work. As a housewife, even at my worst, I still got up, got dressed, made lunches... no responsibility was neglected... but oh when I had every hatch battened down, then I'd emotionally fall apart. I was just so weighed down with negative self-talk. It was a running tape recorder in my head which I couldn't turn off- I could barely even adjust the volume.

Now in general, I think many people, especially in the States, are given a diagnosis and a prescription a little too quickly. And the thing with BPD is that a lot of the descriptions/behaviors can be due from anything from hormones to bad diet. That being said, when the diagnosis is correct and the right prescription given, it can be a total life changer. I don't envy the doctor trying to make the diagnosis given all the variables.

I lucked out. I felt that I had truly tried every avenue sans medicine and without much reluctance, tried Lexapro. For me, it was absolutely perfect and my only side effect is that I went up one dress size. But I think that is more due to the fact that I don't need to exercise obsessively to control my emotions anymore. My insomnia is gone. My sex life and libido improved dramatically, contrary to expectations. I'm an artist, and my abilities jumped many fold due to the self criticism quieting down.

About 5 months ago, I took refined sugar out of my life as well. Not like a monk... I don't obsess about sugar being in the ketchup I enjoy with my fries, but like no cookies, gum, chocolate, ice cream, etc. The combo of the Lexapro (15mm daily) and no sugar is perfect. I'm the happiest and most "even" I've ever been. Some days I wake up and notice that the angry voice in my head that was always belittling me not only quieted down, but hasn't been around in a long-ass time.

When the diagnosis is right and not an excuse - it's a life saver.

Just wanted to share

 

[Cehrabehra]

debby - when you say bpd are you referring to borderline personality disorder or as I saw mentioned a few times bi polar disorder?

My best friend since freshman year of high school is a psychologist. I was seeing a therapist several years ago and the guy was DETERMINED to put a dx on me. He suggested bi polar and something else (forget) and then schizophrenia and the last time I saw him he was literally telling me that my best friend didn''t exist or if she did that my relationship with her was misconstrued and I probably hadn''t actually seen her since high school and that I was imagining my relationship with her. I laughed. He said that my response was inappropriate and that I needed to take this seriously. I tried calling her on the phone but she didn''t answer. He started suggesting hospitalization and anti psychotics and I left and he was calling down the hall, "Please reconsider what you''re doing is very dangerous."

BOY did that mess with my head. I didn''t actually HAVE any of that but he definitely put doubts in my head. I got home, "L was really exists - right?" and he looked at me like I was nuts and I was like I thought so. I went and got wedding pictures and actually said this is L right and she is real right?

I went to a psychologist because I was feeling a bit lost and really all I needed was some encouragement to go back to school.... but instead he actually messed me up for a couple years. It took a long time before I stopped having spontaneous thoughts that maybe what I thought was reality really wasn''t reality. Now I know he''s an effing quack and I can''t believe I allowed myself to be susceptible to his suggestions. I don''t remember the words he used but basically an overweight uneducated housewife in Oregon couldn''t POSSIBLY be as close as I claimed to a successful san francisco psychologist - a psychologist! haha It''s just so full of irony. Not to mention she and I agreed that if one of us was going to be the other''s imaginary friend it was probably me that was hers lol

Needless to say my quirks actually fall more under the autism spectrum... I am not autistic, I am adhd but I am the true adhd and not just unable to concentrate... I have intense trouble being linear and a bunch of other things that go with it like a tendency to insecurity, unusual brilliance (I don''t mean unusually brilliant, I mean brilliant in weird ways), higher than average egocentricity, difficulty adapting to social norms which is usually preceded by obliviousness to them, and of course the usual inability to control my focus whether it be a difficulty to focus or a difficulty to unfocus.

In conclusion I am not any of the things he claimed I should be... and I worry about people relying on singular dx. I would get 2nd, 3rd opinions. It can''t hurt. He actually was triggering paranoia in me! ugh.

 

[missydebby]

Hey Sara,

wow! We have a term for those types in my profession - total as-hole!

I have Borderline Personality Disorder. I hear you on the second opinions. When I was 23, I went to a psychiatrist because I was having issues that were coming to a head. Would have been better to go to therapy and talk it out, but that''s where my HMO sent me. Anyway, after a 20 minute meeting, he was ready to prescribe me Prozac. I left and never came back... I couldn''t believe how quickly a doctor was willing to give me powerful psychotropic drugs.

It took me another 16 years of suffering before having enough confidence to go back and seek help. First I went to a therapist and we talked things out weekly for several months, before we even discussed the list of symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder. When I did read the list, I couldn''t stop being happy. I thought being sad all the time was just how I was built... didn''t even know there were any possible solutions.

Did you ever end up getting any helpful solutions?

 

[Karl_K]

Any attempt at self-diagnosis of mental health is extremely harmful in my opinion.
You say you have only one to go but if you spent any amount of time with someone with uncontrolled or untreated BPD you would see just how wrong you are.
Spend 24 hours with someone who has it under control and see how how hard they have to work at doing so and it will break your heart.
A mental illness is much more than a list of symptoms most of the symptoms everyone has at one time or another.
What makes them a mental illness is the degree and the severity.
That is why it is so often miss-diagnosed.
Most people with mental health issues do not fit into any one category perfectly.
BPD can be one of the most heartbreaking illnesses there is and should not be taken lightly.

 

[lilyfoot]

missydebby, BPD is not something I''m familiar with, but your post was very touching. I am glad you were able to finally figure out what was "wrong", and that you''re feeling better now.

 

[Miss Sparkly]

My two cents, as I type this from my phone, is that mental health pros need to step back and not be so quick to diagnose a " problem". I was told that I was depressed, bipolar, and had bpd. Turns out it was pmdd and low dose birth control has made me happy as a clam. I see first hand from FIL how he is quick to use medicine to fix whatever is wrong in himself and his patients and it makes me sad. We need to be raising a generation who can cope with the fact that life isn''t always roses, instead of one that feels medicine can fix anything.

 

[dragonfly411]

Date: 6/17/2010 10:00:20 AM
Author: Sparkly Blonde
My two cents, as I type this from my phone, is that mental health pros need to step back and not be so quick to diagnose a '' problem''. I was told that I was depressed, bipolar, and had bpd. Turns out it was pmdd and low dose birth control has made me happy as a clam. I see first hand from FIL how he is quick to use medicine to fix whatever is wrong in himself and his patients and it makes me sad. We need to be raising a generation who can cope with the fact that life isn''t always roses, instead of one that feels medicine can fix anything.

This expresses how I feel completely (save for the PMDD and sorry you went through that

).

 

[RaiKai]

I do agree that sometimes there is a tendency to "over-diagnose" when all that should be said is the person is "human" and perhaps would benefit from talk therapy and certain lifestyle changes, in order to become more self-aware in their response to, well, life. I had an eating disorder for many years, but I was certainly not "borderline". Fortunately no one was over-eager to ever diagnosis me with such! I could see how if I had have been diagnosed however it would have done more harm than good for me personally, as that is not a diagnosis that would have fit for me at all. As it is, I took active steps to understand and recover from my eating disorder, through counseling and therapy, and still remain self aware and self-reflective to avoid any recurrences. None of the other criteria for borderline personality disorder would have fit for me. So it would appall me to see someone stating all those with eating disorders are borderline, as was mentioned above! Some may be, but it seems to me to be doing a HUGE disservice to those who have either an eating disorder, or actual borderline personality disorder, to generalize that way.

As Karl said, a mental illness is much more than a list of symptoms that most everyone has at one time or another, it is about their degree and severity and persistence.

That being said, I also know people (both family members by marriage, and families of close friends) who have been diagnosed with either borderline personality disorder OR bi-polar disorder and these are definitely people with whom the diagnosis does fit. One friend diagnosed with bipolar committed suicide a few years ago. Most of them refuse medication or treatments, and I think that is a common occurrence in these cases. These would be, as was described, people who truly have serious psychiatric problems. All I can say is that the way they behave, the things they say, are almost surreal and are barely described by the list of symptoms. Their illness has a tremendous impact on their families, especially their children. To be around them at times feels like you are living in the Twilight Zone. It really is far more than being emotional, moody, or insecure, and so on. And I do think when the diagnosis is correct, and the right treatments can be found and committed to, the diagnosis can really help people's lives turn around - as well as those of their families. I have seen it happen in a handful of cases, but it requires a lot of work and a lifetime commitment.

 

[missydebby]

Date: 6/17/2010 9:23:37 AM
Author: lilyfoot
missydebby, BPD is not something I''m familiar with, but your post was very touching. I am glad you were able to finally figure out what was ''wrong'', and that you''re feeling better now.

Thank you for saying that

 

[missydebby]

Date: 6/17/2010 10:00:20 AM
Author: Sparkly Blonde
My two cents, as I type this from my phone, is that mental health pros need to step back and not be so quick to diagnose a '' problem''. I was told that I was depressed, bipolar, and had bpd. Turns out it was pmdd and low dose birth control has made me happy as a clam. I see first hand from FIL how he is quick to use medicine to fix whatever is wrong in himself and his patients and it makes me sad. We need to be raising a generation who can cope with the fact that life isn''t always roses, instead of one that feels medicine can fix anything.

I totally agree. Especially with the medication of children. I actually think my route was a pretty good one. In a nutshell, the reason I was so high functioning, rather than for example letting the depression et al get me messed up with drugs or bad men or even just stuck under the covers all day, was that I was absolutely determined to find a positive way to deal. I figured if I was gonna be constantly angry and sad, I might as well be angry, sad, and exceptional. Nothing was ever good enough, but running marathons and weight lifting, going to retreats where I could just focus on my life, and having success at work did mitigate things. I have to say... I wasn''t happy. But I was dealing and for a long time, that was enough.

Then a good friend of mine died from cancer, and something about this young ravishing picture of health yoga teacher succombing to a blood cancer was too much for me to bear. She was one of the most giving people I know, and wouldn''t you know it that when she left this world, she gave me the gift of being ok to ask for help. Then when presented with the option of medication, I could say without hesitation that I had tried every avenue thoroughly and that I wasn''t looking for a crutch. Also, I don''t expect my medicine to live my life for me. It''s not a miracle-never-have-problems-again pill

I hesitate to give advice... I can''t know from my vantage point how much awfulness is too much for an individual to bear before wanting something, anything to help. But I would say to try diet, exercise, talk therapy, and life management skills absolutely thoroughly before medicine. These are powerful drugs and shouldn''t be taken lightly.

 

[lyra]

Date: 6/16/2010 11:10:42 PM
Author: LisaRN
I work with patients who have psychiatric diagnosis such as borderline personality disorder and bipolar disorder. Most of them are people who lack coping skills, lack problem solving skills, and have temper tantrums when things don''t go their way. If you watch a two year old act out it is a temper tantrum. Watch a 22 year old or 32 year old do the same thing and we are searching for a treatable diagnosis. It really belittles those patients who truly do meet the criteria and do have serious psychiatric problems. 8 out of 10 borderline Personality disorder patients of of mine have an enabler in tow. TRUE borderline personalities scare the socks off me. You really need to watch your back. Off my soapbox now.

My sister is a true borderline and she does indeed scare the heck out of me. I''m not in the field, but I hear of a fair number of people being diagnosed borderline or bipolar that DO NOT fit in either category IMO, and that''s just as a layperson. I can see how labelling someone can pigeonhole them unfairly sometimes. I do admit that I stay the heck away from borderlines, because whether or not they are as intense as my sister, I feel (however unjustly), that they cannot ever be helped or change. That is sad I guess.

 

[Autumnovember]

I''m definitely listening in as I am going for my BSN in psychiatric nursing..

 

[radiantquest]

I personally have given up on the psychiatric field. I have had many doctors over the years. Maybe they werent the right ones for me, but every single one of them gave a different diagnosis.

When I was younger as in 12-16 I was much "crazier". There was even a time I believed I could levitate. As I have gotten older I started to see doctors. One said that I was BPD. Had me on a whole cocktail of medications. Dangerous medications. I couldnt handle it anymore and stopped seeing that doctor. Then I saw another one that told me I was bipolar. Again, another cocktail. Less hazardous, but I still didnt like it. I was left with no emotion at all. It is one thing to try to keep someone from being drepressed and keeping that under control, but when you arent happy or sad that just plain sucks.

My most recent doctor has tried a lot of things. It seems that the older I get the more able I am to control myself. I dont know if the way I function is the same way others do, but it has been working for me. My most recent doctor kept giving me medications for anxiety. I told him that I am very angry inside. For all of you with a disorder this may sound familiar. I told him that I have a solid metal ball inside my chest. When something is aggravating me. (they are usually pretty small, but then anything fuels the fire) that metal ball starts to heat up and it grows thorns and moves around slowly. That is how I describe the anger inside of me. It spirals into such a fit of rage that I scare myself. I dont throw temper tantrums. I mostly keep my mouth shut and do what I have to do to get to be by myself. All in all I have given up on medications and when I become so livid I usually go somewhere that prevents me from harming myself and from harming others and wait out the storm.

 

[lizzyann]

missdebby, thanks so much for sharing with us. You are inspirational in that you found ways to cope and get yourself thru. More power to you lady!

This is going to be long...I apologize..thanks for listening...

My cousin definitely has some issues and maybe it is bipolar. I am not a Dr. so I can''t say either way. I can tell you that she has made bad decisions throughout her life. Brazen_irish_hussy talked about her MIL in the same way and I think that my cousin is similar in some ways. She got pregnant at a young age with her now 16 year old son. Then later in life, she got married and had three little girls. She refuses to use a birth control pill because they don''t make her feel good. Her and her husband always made bad financial decisions and would constantly be going to my aunt to bail them out. Then my cousin and her hubby ended up both losing custody of their girls because they got in a huge fight (another long story which would need a whole other thread to discuss!). So now the three girls ranging in age from 6-12 are in foster care. My cousin still has custody of her 16 year old son though as he has a different father. Now, as long as I have known my cousin she has always been moody. She flies off the handle or is over boisterous (happy). She gets in fights a lot either with her son, her mom (my aunt), or at work. This is why she has lost SO many jobs. After her kids were taken away, she went to a Dr. who diagnosed her with bipolar. I don''t know if it was court ordered that she see a Dr. or not, but nevertheless she saw him for a little, then stopped going. Now she doesn''t work, stays at home most of the time on the computer, and goes out to bars with her friends (funded by my aunt). Now, her son turns 16 and he decides to drop out of school and when asked about getting a job he says he can''t because he is bipolar. Now, he has NEVER been to a Dr. he just "self-diagnosed" himself with bipolar. In his circumstance, he also flies off the handle and yells and screams when he doesn''t get his way. But in his case, I think it is a learned behavior, not true bipolar. Swedish Bean, I totally agree with you on that. When you see mom act a certain way for so long, you eventually learn that behavior. Well, him and my cousin got into such a bad fight that one of the tenants in their building called the cops, so they both went to court and my aunt made it mandatory that my cousin find a job within x number of months, and her son to get his GED within x number of months. I hope it works out.

One story I''d like to tell you about my cousin will make you understand what I mean about her using her bipolar disease as an excuse. We were all at my Grandma''s house for my cousin''s birthday. My Grandma still likes to have a cake for all of her Grandkids birthdays. Very sweet. Anyways, let me preface this story by saying that my aunt pays for all of my cousins bills - credit cards, cell phone, and she doesn''t ask for any rent money. My aunt also has to drive her to all visitations to see her girls because my cousin doesn''t have a car. Ok so my cousin opens up her presents and she got quite a bit of cash. So right away she says "Mom, can you drive me to the mall so I can go by some new clothes to go clubbing for my birthday? Then I am calling the Tattoo Parlor to get a new Tattoo". So my sweet little 85 year old Grandma says without a single sarcastic undertone "honey, why don''t you put the money away to save for a car". So my cousin LOSES it!!!! She proceeds to yell at my Grandma saying "let me do what I want, I''m bipolar" Then she starts crying and storms off. I just get annoyed because whether she truly is bipolar or not, I wish she would find ways to learn to cope like miss debby has said. I just feel so bad for all of her kids....

 

[Autumnovember]

In my opinion, so many people who are patients in psych hospitals just TRULY need people to listen to them more then ANYTHING else.. I know that many people have given up on the psych field but I do promise there are people out there aspiring to be psychiatric nurses for the right reasons. I really do not believe in medicating everyone for every little problem they have. I do hope to somehow be able to make a difference in lives someday...even if it is just listening to my patients.

 

[missydebby]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:46:39 AM
Author: lizzyann01
missdebby, thanks so much for sharing with us. You are inspirational in that you found ways to cope and get yourself thru. More power to you lady!


This is going to be long...I apologize..thanks for listening...


My cousin definitely has some issues and maybe it is bipolar. I am not a Dr. so I can''t say either way. I can tell you that she has made bad decisions throughout her life. Brazen_irish_hussy talked about her MIL in the same way and I think that my cousin is similar in some ways. She got pregnant at a young age with her now 16 year old son. Then later in life, she got married and had three little girls. She refuses to use a birth control pill because they don''t make her feel good. Her and her husband always made bad financial decisions and would constantly be going to my aunt to bail them out. Then my cousin and her hubby ended up both losing custody of their girls because they got in a huge fight (another long story which would need a whole other thread to discuss!). So now the three girls ranging in age from 6-12 are in foster care. My cousin still has custody of her 16 year old son though as he has a different father. Now, as long as I have known my cousin she has always been moody. She flies off the handle or is over boisterous (happy). She gets in fights a lot either with her son, her mom (my aunt), or at work. This is why she has lost SO many jobs. After her kids were taken away, she went to a Dr. who diagnosed her with bipolar. I don''t know if it was court ordered that she see a Dr. or not, but nevertheless she saw him for a little, then stopped going. Now she doesn''t work, stays at home most of the time on the computer, and goes out to bars with her friends (funded by my aunt). Now, her son turns 16 and he decides to drop out of school and when asked about getting a job he says he can''t because he is bipolar. Now, he has NEVER been to a Dr. he just ''self-diagnosed'' himself with bipolar. In his circumstance, he also flies off the handle and yells and screams when he doesn''t get his way. But in his case, I think it is a learned behavior, not true bipolar. Swedish Bean, I totally agree with you on that. When you see mom act a certain way for so long, you eventually learn that behavior. Well, him and my cousin got into such a bad fight that one of the tenants in their building called the cops, so they both went to court and my aunt made it mandatory that my cousin find a job within x number of months, and her son to get his GED within x number of months. I hope it works out.


One story I''d like to tell you about my cousin will make you understand what I mean about her using her bipolar disease as an excuse. We were all at my Grandma''s house for my cousin''s birthday. My Grandma still likes to have a cake for all of her Grandkids birthdays. Very sweet. Anyways, let me preface this story by saying that my aunt pays for all of my cousins bills - credit cards, cell phone, and she doesn''t ask for any rent money. My aunt also has to drive her to all visitations to see her girls because my cousin doesn''t have a car. Ok so my cousin opens up her presents and she got quite a bit of cash. So right away she says ''Mom, can you drive me to the mall so I can go by some new clothes to go clubbing for my birthday? Then I am calling the Tattoo Parlor to get a new Tattoo''. So my sweet little 85 year old Grandma says without a single sarcastic undertone ''honey, why don''t you put the money away to save for a car''. So my cousin LOSES it!!!! She proceeds to yell at my Grandma saying ''let me do what I want, I''m bipolar'' Then she starts crying and storms off. I just get annoyed because whether she truly is bipolar or not, I wish she would find ways to learn to cope like miss debby has said. I just feel so bad for all of her kids....

Thanks so much for the kind words. Means a lot to me. I''m so sorry about your and little_irish''s situations. I think the problem lies in the fact that these people have totally rotten life skills and have trained others around them to accomodate them. Even if they were 100% perfectly diagnosed and had a god-given perfect prescription, they''d probably still be a mess. I spent years working on my family issues, body image issues, etc... and I had a magnificent childhood and all the support of a well-to-do close and caring family. I can''t imagine how it would have been otherwise. Whatever, though... all of it''s no excuse, but try getting that through their heads. The most who most need to listen are often the ones least willing to hear. I don''t know any solution other than to completely refuse to be used by them. All you can do sometimes, is be true to your own values, have the nerve to be honest when necessary, and weather the storm when it hits. Def easier said then done.

 

[missydebby]

Date: 6/17/2010 11:39:50 AM
Author: radiantquest
I personally have given up on the psychiatric field. I have had many doctors over the years. Maybe they werent the right ones for me, but every single one of them gave a different diagnosis.


When I was younger as in 12-16 I was much ''crazier''. There was even a time I believed I could levitate. As I have gotten older I started to see doctors. One said that I was BPD. Had me on a whole cocktail of medications. Dangerous medications. I couldnt handle it anymore and stopped seeing that doctor. Then I saw another one that told me I was bipolar. Again, another cocktail. Less hazardous, but I still didnt like it. I was left with no emotion at all. It is one thing to try to keep someone from being drepressed and keeping that under control, but when you arent happy or sad that just plain sucks.


My most recent doctor has tried a lot of things. It seems that the older I get the more able I am to control myself. I dont know if the way I function is the same way others do, but it has been working for me. My most recent doctor kept giving me medications for anxiety. I told him that I am very angry inside. For all of you with a disorder this may sound familiar. I told him that I have a solid metal ball inside my chest. When something is aggravating me. (they are usually pretty small, but then anything fuels the fire) that metal ball starts to heat up and it grows thorns and moves around slowly. That is how I describe the anger inside of me. It spirals into such a fit of rage that I scare myself. I dont throw temper tantrums. I mostly keep my mouth shut and do what I have to do to get to be by myself. All in all I have given up on medications and when I become so livid I usually go somewhere that prevents me from harming myself and from harming others and wait out the storm.

I think it''s great that you can put an image to your feelings and that you''ve learned how to handle yourself. I have that,too, with the anger. It''s pretty rare now, thank god, but sometimes if I get into a fight with my DH, I will fell it build up insanely quicky in my chest. AT that time, I absolutely need 5 -10 minutes alone to cool down or else I can just explode. My DH didn''t like that at first, cause he thought I was just turning my back on him to win the fight. I''ve had to explain many times over that I literally neeeeed to physically have a time out to cool down.

 

[that_someone_special]

I am also BPD with major depression (clinical depression), with SI tendencies.

I''m 26.
I''ve been diagnosed since I was about 15.
major depression kicked in around 18 or so?
I''ve been on at least 20 medications.
I went through a year of DBT + individual therapy (7 hours a week total).
It is the only thing that has remotely helped in the last 11 years. It didn''t help with the depression, but it taught me "skills" for when I feel the way that I feel.

I know exactly what you mean when you say you can almost "feel" the anger. I can be fine and then something will happen that just puts me in a terror rage. I used to be really bad. I used to just destroy things, break things, anything to stop the "feeling". It usually ended when I broke something. I would then just sit and sob.. for hours. I''ve cracked bones in my hands before from slamming my hand on things, and I wouldn''t even feel it. (And, well, that gets into SI behavior which goes much further than that.....)

sigh

 

[Arkteia]

Date: 6/17/2010 5:06:32 AM
Author: Cehrabehra
debby - when you say bpd are you referring to borderline personality disorder or as I saw mentioned a few times bi polar disorder?

My best friend since freshman year of high school is a psychologist. I was seeing a therapist several years ago and the guy was DETERMINED to put a dx on me. He suggested bi polar and something else (forget) and then schizophrenia and the last time I saw him he was literally telling me that my best friend didn't exist or if she did that my relationship with her was misconstrued and I probably hadn't actually seen her since high school and that I was imagining my relationship with her. I laughed. He said that my response was inappropriate and that I needed to take this seriously. I tried calling her on the phone but she didn't answer. He started suggesting hospitalization and anti psychotics and I left and he was calling down the hall, 'Please reconsider what you're doing is very dangerous.'

BOY did that mess with my head. I didn't actually HAVE any of that but he definitely put doubts in my head. I got home, 'L was really exists - right?' and he looked at me like I was nuts and I was like I thought so. I went and got wedding pictures and actually said this is L right and she is real right?

I went to a psychologist because I was feeling a bit lost and really all I needed was some encouragement to go back to school.... but instead he actually messed me up for a couple years. It took a long time before I stopped having spontaneous thoughts that maybe what I thought was reality really wasn't reality. Now I know he's an effing quack and I can't believe I allowed myself to be susceptible to his suggestions. I don't remember the words he used but basically an overweight uneducated housewife in Oregon couldn't POSSIBLY be as close as I claimed to a successful san francisco psychologist - a psychologist! haha It's just so full of irony. Not to mention she and I agreed that if one of us was going to be the other's imaginary friend it was probably me that was hers lol

Needless to say my quirks actually fall more under the autism spectrum... I am not autistic, I am adhd but I am the true adhd and not just unable to concentrate... I have intense trouble being linear and a bunch of other things that go with it like a tendency to insecurity, unusual brilliance (I don't mean unusually brilliant, I mean brilliant in weird ways), higher than average egocentricity, difficulty adapting to social norms which is usually preceded by obliviousness to them, and of course the usual inability to control my focus whether it be a difficulty to focus or a difficulty to unfocus.

In conclusion I am not any of the things he claimed I should be... and I worry about people relying on singular dx. I would get 2nd, 3rd opinions. It can't hurt. He actually was triggering paranoia in me! ugh.

I am probably going to start threads about bipolar disorder but the next thread I am going to start specifically for you. As I have mentioned before, I have a son with Asperger's but way before I had him, I loved treating people who felt they did not "fit in". Social anxiety, feeling isolated...different, as if you are staying behind the window and seeing a room there with people in it and you can describe what is going in there but you can not hear what they are saying so your understanding of their lives is not full...I do not know how to explain it better. It can not always be diagnosed...maybe "atypicality" is the best word. I often work with a therapist who, like me, loves this group of people and feels very supportive of them. She works with adults only. It is nice to know there is someone who feels like you.

As to borderlines - it is a difficult subject. I just wanted to raise awareness of the fact how stigmatizing it is in the eyes of mental health professionals, how easily it is given to people and how very few people want to work with someone with this diagnosis.

 

[kama_s]

I'm with you on this Crasu. True borderline is really scary. When I was younger I thought my mother was bipolar, but as I grew I began to wonder if she's actually borderline instead. Not sure if you can have both? In anycase, it's so difficult to be around her. Most of the family is now estranged from her. She had a horrible childhood, which obviously has a lot to do with this. I have a feeling I'm 'borderline' borderline as well. But when I left home, I went to see a therapist for a few months where all I did was talk. She encouraged me to share things I never had the courage to say or admit about my childhood and family. That really helped me cope. But I still have emotional "blocks", as I like to call them. And it's true, it does feel like real, solid pain. But being in a relationship with a wonderful and patient man makes life so much better. I know the difference between right/normal behaviour and otherwise, and try to find ways to avoid unhealthy behaviour - either by learning how to nip it as soon as I feel it coming or trying to understand the reasoning behind why I react a certain way.

I also fully agree that pychiatrists these days and seriously pushing pill-popping. I had a friend in university who came up to me for help because her father, a psychiatrist, put her on anti-depressants because she was feeling blue over a breakup. Uhh, that's NORMAL. Depression is when you have prolonged, unusual bouts of sadness. Warranted feelings of sadness is normal human behavior! And hey, I'm knee deep in the world of pharma, so I really have nothing against drug utilization!

Also, MissDebby: Thank you for sharing your story.

 

[ilovethiswebsite]

I am not sure how it works in psychiatry but in child psychology it is bad practice to diagnose a personality disorder such as borderline until adulthood. Childhood and adolescence are periods of rapid development and instability (e.g. puberty causing mood swings), thus making a diagnosis of a personality disorder (which should be a stable trait) could be wrong. In addition, we would never really diagnose a client unless for some reason, a diagnosis was helpful (either for school planning, so the client feels better knowing about a diagnosis, or for work placement etc...)

Generally speaking, when I am wondering about dx a patient, I try to use my clinical judgment more so than DSM-IV criteria. A lot of the criteria are subjective, thus it is very important to use your knowledge base (e.g. in your practice, does this client feel "psychiatric" or outside the range of normal). Obviously it is way harder to do that when you are just starting off as a psychiatrist but I would imagine over time, this task gets a lot easier.

 

[kama_s]

Date: 6/17/2010 3:48:41 PM
Author: ilovethiswebsite
I am not sure how it works in psychiatry but in child psychology it is bad practice to diagnose a personality disorder such as borderline until adulthood. Childhood and adolescence are periods of rapid development and instability (e.g. puberty causing mood swings), thus making a diagnosis of a personality disorder (which should be a stable trait) could be wrong.

Generally speaking, when I am wondering about dx a patient, I try to use my clinical judgment more so than DSM-IV criteria. A lot of the criteria are subjective, thus it is very important to use your knowledge base (e.g. in your practice, does this client feel ''psychiatric'' or outside the range of normal. Obviously it is way harder to do that when you are just starting off as a psychiatrist but I would imagine over time, this task gets a lot easier.

Good point. I forgot to mention that a key factor would be ''Intensity''. Everyone at some point goes through mild, say, self-image unstability. But when these feelings are more intense (and prolonged) compared to the general population, only then is it a problem. And only then should it actually be considered as a ''symptom''.