Books on Marriage for a kid of divorce?

[Independent Gal]

Hi Folks,

We just got back from a visit to my dad''s family. As I''ve mentioned, my dad''s been married several times, as has his wife. I''m pretty sure FF asked dad for his blessing while we were there which should have made me excited, right?

But I found myself feeling kind of upset and worried, and blowing every little concern out of proportion, and wanting to be ALONE! Then that made me even more worried (why should I want to be alone? Shouldn''t I want to spend every minute with FF?) which I know is irrational since I know I''m basically someone who DOES like to be alone a lot and we''d been together 24/7 for several days. Then he started to really grate on my nerves, and I just kept getting myself more and more wound up, then calling the whole THING into question. Maybe I''d rather just live alone. Maybe I''m not cut out for marriage. Maybe we''re going too fast. What if he gets on my nerves? What if I can''t stand living in a small apartment with him? What if I get resentful?

I''m fairly sure this was all prompted by the fact that I''m terrified of ending up divorced. I''ve had a couple of panic moments before, but this was the most intense. Anyway, now I feel badly because FF could tell something was up and we had a big long talk about it which made him a little sad (although has any woman ever had a more understanding and supportive man? I doubt it! He is so wonderful).

We were talking about how everyone reads parenting manuals, but so few people bother to learn how to make a marriage work. I was hoping you might recommend some books we could read together. Or maybe you have stories or advice to share?

I just feel a little down. And it doesn''t seem right to feel down just before getting engaged to a spectacularly great guy.

 

[monarch64]

These are not necessarily child-of-divorce specific reads pertaining to marriage, but are good reads nonetheless:

Seven Principals for Making Marriage Work, and Why Marriages Succeed or Fail by John Gottman

The latter was recommended to us during our premarital counseling. DH hasn''t read either of them, but i''ve read both and found them each to be enlightening and somewhat helpful. I''m a child of one of those 30-some year marriages that was never happy and always on the verge of divorce, so I can sympathize with your feelings of being terrified that your marriage will not work out/end in divorce. As another self-proclaimed "independent girl," I can tell you that your current feelings will not magically disappear upon having a wedding band placed on your finger...hopefully your FI will take it upon himself to do some reading while you do yours, my DH is not a reader and thought he understood my issues, but it would''ve been greatly helpful if he had taken some time to learn about this type of thing. Anyway, I chinned up and realized that my own issues had nothing to do with him and continue to do reading on my own to gain insight and it has helped tremendously. HTH!

 

[monarch64]

Oh, and p.s., it''s not abnormal to want to spend time alone...I struggled with that myself and still do from time to time. Turns out DH needs his alone time as well, and also turns out it is beneficial to us both! Luckily he travels a lot for work and get a chance to let ''absence make the heart grow fonder'' often enough, but even when he isn''t traveling we respect each other''s need to not have someone "hovering," so to speak.

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks Monarch! I will definitely order those. I''m pretty sure FF will look over them with me. His folks are happily married for 40 years (though they''ve had their troubles too, of course!) so he doesn''t just ''get it'', but he is doing a good job of being sensitive to my concerns and is listening carefully.

About the hovering thing, I suspect that my anxieties would be dramatically reduced if he wasn''t moving into my very small apartment. I LOVE living alone, and there''s really not enough room for two here. If only we could afford a bigger place with a ''room of my own'' I''d probably be less nervous.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 6/13/2007 8:07:57 PM
Author: Independent Gal
Thanks Monarch! I will definitely order those. I''m pretty sure FF will look over them with me. His folks are happily married for 40 years (though they''ve had their troubles too, of course!) so he doesn''t just ''get it'', but he is doing a good job of being sensitive to my concerns and is listening carefully.

About the hovering thing, I suspect that my anxieties would be dramatically reduced if he wasn''t moving into my very small apartment. I LOVE living alone, and there''s really not enough room for two here. If only we could afford a bigger place with a ''room of my own'' I''d probably be less nervous.

Oh, I hear ya on the close quarters thang. Hee hee, I grew up as one of 4 family members in a 6,000 sq. ft. house with a huge kitchen and separate bedroom wings, and DH and I moved in together in a 2 BR, 2 Ba apt. and then went to our current house, a 2 BR, 1 ba little tiny brick Georgian and it is just too damn small, lol! He, OTOH, grew up in a small split level with two sisters and his parents and is used to sharing tight spaces, whereas I am definitely not. I still get a little claustrophobic when we are in the kitchen together although I''ve gotten over a lot of it (yes, it can be done). And sharing a bathroom, OMG, definitely takes a lot of getting used to. Also, he is 6''5", 240, and I''m 5''10", 150-60, so we are both big people living in what feels like a dollhouse, and doesn''t make matters any better, but it''s what we could afford.

Maybe you guys can talk about the needing time alone thing and come to some sort of compromise where he or you have activities not involving both of you outside the home a night or two a week? That way you could look forward to and enjoy your time alone without worrying that you have to share space? I dunno, luckily for us we have a pretty big basement which serves as a rec room/man cave for DH so he can hang out and watch sportscenter or whatever, and his office is down there as well, while I have the second floor as my haven when I''m not spending time with the dogs while they''re out in the yard. We''ve been able to make a lot of compromises as far as our time alone needs in our tight space, and it took a lot of work, but was worth it and it helps us both stay sane and in love with each other!

 

[Independent Gal]

Well, I've got literally two rooms - the kitchen / living room and the bedroom (oh, and there's a bath too of course) and about 800 sq ft, so you can just imagine! And he's 6'5'' too (at least i'm tiny!). We've discussed having a schedule to ensure 'alone time' in the condo. It makes it more necessary because we work for the same organization, and he has a habit of popping into my office several times a day, so it's not even like I get my work day to myself.

Can I just say again thank HEAVENS he is so willing to listen, understand, and compromise. He's really great.

I was dating a very affluent finance guy before FF and he had a huge place. We both liked our space and alone time, so we basically each had a wing and I even had my own bath at his place. When I bought my condo, I never in a million years imagined that a guy would end up moving in with ME! I guess it's silly, but I somehow assumed that if I ended up with anyone at all, I'd end up with someone who had his finances in order like I do, but would be wealthier than me (because that's SO not hard!) and would have a bigger place. Partly because most people I know make way more money than I do. But not FF!

Not that I'd ever trade FF for anyone. And not that I really miss being more 'comfortable' and being taken to galas and fancy restaurants or anything. The only thing I miss is physical spaaaaaace.

Well, it won't be forever. And I'm harboring a secret hope that our parents will kick in some 'wedding money' toward a bigger place. That's just a fantasy though. I realized we would have literally NOWHERE to put wedding presents. if they wouldn't go into a back account.

 

[monarch64]

Aw, so you gotta realize, independantgal, that your FI loves you so much that he''s willing to live with your "moodiness" which is what my DH calls it, when I get all claustrophobic and antsy...

Shoot, I have never thought people were really meant to be together all the time and have kids and deal with work and just be conditioned to love each other no matter what. I think it''s more you find a person who you fit together with so well that you start to be able to see those things becoming a part of your life. In fact, DH and I still haven''t made the kid move because we''re still resolving our own issues and making sure that we''re stable enough to provide a good environment for kids to potentially grow up in...

I don''t know...I''m probably as marriage stunted as you as far as knowing what it takes to make a great marriage. All I can say is that it takes a lot more work than I had planned on doing, and DH would most likely say the same if not more! To me, it''s like a friendship where you have to really think about the other person''s needs and be willing to fulfill those needs without asking for anything back because you love them so much, and that person reciprocates completely. And that''s an ideal situation: DH and I don''t have that at all, so we''re always having to work at it, day in and day out, because we know otherwise things will just go to hell.

I''m not shedding a very positive light on marriage, I think, but I don''t mean to be negative. I just want to convey that it takes work on both parts to really have a great sense of intimacy that you need in marriage, not only in bed but to maintain that initial friendship and feeling of "we belong together." I don''t know of any couple that hasn''t had to work pretty hard at keeping those feelings alive...

 

[Independent Gal]

I just ordered the books you recommended, Monarch, along with one called something like ''Emotionally Engaged'' which is supposed to be about all the weird not so euphoric feelings being engaged can generate. I had a peek and it seems pretty intelligent and interesting.

The thing is, I KNOW there is no better man for me than FF! So I have to assume that any craziness I am feeling is my own. So, I''ll try to be proactive and deal with it before it becomes a problem.

 

[asscherisme]

Hi,
Its normal to want to be alone sometimes! Heck, I''ve been married a long time and have a slew of kids and I totally crave alone time! Some people need alone time and others don''t. My husband unfortunately is one who does not crave it or need it. But early on in our marriage I had to make him realize I needed the time sometimes to recharge. And even with the kids, every now an then he will occupy them so I can have some time alone. Even if its just a 1/2 hour.

Your user name stands out to me because I still feel like independent gal and I''m a married mom. I have sensed a pattern in your posts.

It seems like you are afraid of losing yourself when you are married and are scared of making a mistake. Only you can decide on the second part of that but as for the first- if your fiancee respects and understands who you are, there is NO reason you should lose yourself. Compromise, yes. Learn to live together and make your lives together, yes. But lose yourself and who you are- NO! And if you do, then something is majorly wrong.

 

[Independent Gal]

Amy, you so hit the nail on the head! I'm TERRIFIED of losing myself. I think a lot of women are socialized to put their needs second to those of their family, and I was definitely socialized that way. Ever since I was a kid I've thought 'I won't be that way!' As soon as I could, I started living like my avatar ostrich.

Running free and unstoppable. Also, setting very high goals for myself and meeting them, and kind of identifying myself with those two characteristics (among others): adventurous and ambitious. Those are the two things I'm going to have to put in check if I get married.

As for adventurous, we won't have the money for travel for quite some time, not to mention that it's more difficult with kids, and that I mostly like to travel alone or with my sister, which will be more difficult with a husband too. I think I'm also resenting, a little, that he isn't bringing anything to the table financially, so my standard of living will actually go down. But I feel ashamed of resenting that.

FF has already said he won't mind if I travel alone sometimes, so I don't know why I'm still worried about this. But I think it's because when push comes to shove and my little future girls and boys don't want to be without mommy for two weeks, and FF wants me to stay I won't be able to do it. I may well not want to be without THEM.

(ETA: in other words, I'm not worried about FF stopping me, I'm worried about me stopping me, feeling too guilty to do things I need to do to feel like 'me'.)

As for ambitious, for a variety of reasons, it's very likely I now have to kiss my career goodbye and do something more lucrative and less interesting so that he can keep doing what he loves. I've worked SO hard for so many years to get to where I wanted to be, and I know
I can meet further challenges I wanted to meet if I had the chance.

We're going to try to find a way of making this not necessary, but the chances are slim, so I don't want to count on it. I have to prepare for the worst, even if I hope for the best.

So, yeah, I'm pretty scared that 'me' will get totally subsumed in my new duties to 'we', and that I will always be the one who gives up what I want or need to care for my family, just like my mom did.

I know it's irrational. And what I want to learn now, before 'taking the plunge', is WHY I'm so worried about this, and what i can do about it! Maybe being proactive will help.

 

[divergrrl]

So, yeah, I''m pretty scared that ''me'' will get totally subsumed in my new duties to ''we'', and that I will always be the one who gives up what I want or need to care for my family, just like my mom did.

.

Uh, IG...bite your tongue. Marriage is a 2 way street & why should you have to give up your dreams just to float his? Don''t fall into the martyr trap. Why can''t you both chase your dreams and do with less?

If you give up everything you''ve worked so hard to accomplish, you will resent your FI someday. Perhaps not right away, but it will happen. I''m a big believer in compromise.

Marriage doesn''t just "gel" magically into place. There is no way to mesh two lives together without some bumpiness, it creates a depth to a relationship as you work it out.

Its ok to be scared of marriage...I remember looking at my dh when he was my FI and thinking "omg..can I marry a man who is polar opposite me on politics & he doesn''t even read? aaaaaaaaaaaaaghhh" Turns out...no big deal..we are still Arnold & Maria, but hey...he''s an intelligent guy and he does read! LOL.

My parents divorced an ugly divorce too, so I empathize with you.

Oh, and you can travel without your Dh...I do it with my girlfriends from time to time...we took a cruise in December & we are planning on a trip to London in 5 years...a trip to NYC...he doesn''t mind at all. I guess since he travels for work, its not weird for either of us to be away from each other--there is a lot of confidence and trust there.

My mom gave me a nice compliment last year: she said she was very proud of me holding on to my values while being married to someone who has opposing views. Her point was that a lot of married women, in particular --stay at home moms like myself---lose themselves to their hubbies. Not sure if I buy that, but I did appreciate the fact that she noticed 8 years later--I''m still myself...even after leaving my career & starting a family.

You can hang onto "you" too, you just have to always be honest with yourself, your spouse, and communicate communicate communicate. Never confuse comprimising for giving up or vice versa.

Two way street.

My .02

 

[Independent Gal]

Thanks Diver! Your advice is MUCH appreciated.

And that IS a nice compliment your mom gave you! Hurray!

Sadly, the career thing is really a tough one. It's a zero sum game, and while I love my job, his job (which I admit is pretty sexy) has been his driving passion since he was about 6. So, since someone's career had to be lexically prior, it seemed 'fair' that it be his because he's more committed than I am (but I'm still committed!) I could see myself being happy doing something else if necessary, he can't even imagine doing something else. So that makes it look like I'm the one who has to make the sacrifice.

The thing is, I feel like women rationalize these things in favour of men quite a lot more than vice versa. I'm guessing we're inclined to find reasons why our honeys careers should take priority (e.g., he earns more, he's more ambitious, he's less portable, etc.) but they (and we) are less inclined to LOOK for reasons why ours should come first. They may be all good, rational reasons. But I'm just guessing that we take the time to FIND reasons our mens' jobs should come first, while the same is not true in the reverse.

E.g., he has a green card and I don't. I can easily get a visa for my current work, but it will be an expensive and difficult proposition to get a visa for other kinds of work. And, I have my earning potential in my current job than he has in his. Why not choose according to those reasons?

Or I think about how he said he worked SO HARD and went through so many struggles to get where he is. And I nodded and said 'Yes! Yes!' but of course, I ALSO worked JUST as hard. But that somehow seemed less important. WHY?

It still seems rational to me that we made the decision in the way that we did, but I just wonder sometimes whether I'm too well socialized into the 'self-sacrificing wife' role.

Luckily, I can talk to him about all of this, express my fears and concerns, and feel understood. So at least I'm not bottling it up. And he says he is committed to be vigilant with me about me sacrificing too much or him just expecting certain things, and he is committed to compromise and fairness.

Bottom line: he wants me to be happy, stimulated, and fulfilled because he truly loves me.